Close Combat Weapons

Awesome, power swords return as terminator-killers after spending two editions worthless against 2+ saves

>D3 Damage is good, but if you really want to kill something, try the reaper chainsword. This deals a flat 6 Damage to whatever it wounds. That’s enough to carve a Chaos Lord in half, and a couple of hits will wreck most small and medium vehicles in a single Fight phase.

Chaos Lords confirmed for 6 wounds. How do chaosanons feel about that?

These changes make me hopeful that genestealers will be able to rip open terminators like they do in the fluff.

>the reaper chainsword
Is this new Eviscerator? Or vehicle weapon?

>CCW like the Chainsword gain an additional attack
>mfw

Fingers crossed Furious Charge will still be a thing and that Straken will still give out a bubble of it. I'm hoping for Glorious 5th edition charges again where Sergeants with Power Swords were meat grinders.

Six feels a little on the low side but that's probably before upgrades like terminator/artificer armor or marks and we don't know their saves yet either. This is probably also what an unmodified loyalist chapter master/captain will have for wounds too.

It's the Strength D weapon on the Knights.

Melee of Imperial Knight titan. Its currently Destroyer weapon.

Knight weapon fuckstain

When you consider Guilliman has 9, 6 isn't too surprising.

Oh, Guilliman has 9? I must have missed that reveal then. In that case 6 actually sounds a lot better.

wait what the shit is this true

what the fuck man, why did they flip the script on power weapons and dick around with their AP values, it doesn't even make sense. an axe should have more AP than a sword. this can't be right, are you just reading it wrong?

somebody explain this to me. if this is true, REEEEEEEE god dammit I don't want to switch around my power weapons to gayer looking ones that make no sense

6 or fewer.

It was one of the first

I'm surprised that with modifiers coming back he doesn't have 1+ desu.

Swords have more ap but no str bonus
Axes are AP 2 but with a +1 str bonus
Mails are AP 1 but with +2 str bonus

It is a little backwards in my opinion, but, whatever

They already have furious charge so it's unlikely, but hey they can take an assault out of a rhino now as well

I feel like axes are fine where they are but swords and hammers should be switched

Hammers should be the armor beaters

Swords are light and can be wielded more effectively with leverage

The axe is still slightly better against meqs but equal to the sword against teqs if I recall correctly.

The sword is the generalist weapon, the axe is for heavy infantry, and the maul is for light infantry and monstrous creatures.

It's called "game balance". The sword has a higher rend value then the axe but lower strength so that all three weapons have a niche.

>chain weapons get an extra attack
>daemons of khorne confirmed for getting an extra attack as part of their devotion so it's not too much of a stretch to assume mark of khorne will do the same
>mfw needing a literal wheelbarrow full of dice to make assaults next edition

They've gotten rid of Power Lances from the looks of it.

fuckin ell

whatever seems like axes are possibly still better anyway. I'd probably rather wound easier and make a space marine take a 6+ he won't pass than have no armor save but a harder time wounding. maybe, idk I haven't read any of this leaked shit. I will admit it's kinda cool that power swords are actually finally useful against things that aren't troops or placeholder HQs

Were there even any power lances modelled? I have never seen them used.

Now if they could just give us new Zerkers. The FW upgrade kit has been unavailable for some time now.

well thank g*d I never took those power lances on my champions for fun purposes like I was considering in early 7th only to get fucked over by GW again

Well no-one used them so I can see why, I always thought the idea was pretty cool though. If I ever collected white scars I definitely model a command squad on bikes with all lances.

Mace's don't pierce armor, they beat the shit out of the thing wearing it. Granted swords don't either but they are probably used to go for the weak points in armor, like an estoc.

Hammers wound easily, which is in line with their real word effects. You won't pierce someone's armor with a mace or a hammer (unless it's a bec de Corbin's something like that) but you will discombobulate. If their armor isn't proof against such a weapon they'll be terribly wounded. Imagine a padded maille coif vs a mace = head bashed in. Vs a helm a disorienting effect, neck strain, and perhaps unconsciousness but not death.

They probably just didn't list them. They didn't list chainaxes either despite explicitly mentioning them before this in another reveal.

Death company marines look like they will benefit a lot, assuming BA don't get squattted of course.

there are a lot of bits that pass for power lance like a gray knight halberd, not sure what kit actually came with any, if there even are any

an easy thing to do is just take a CSM icon arm and pin a power sword blade to the top of it.

They explicitly stated that was the power weapon lineup, It's safe to assume that if a model can take a "power weapon" then it can chose from either axe/maul/sword and lances hve to be specifically mentioned as an option, if they do still exist.

I hope they are really good against tyranids.

Power lances never got used because most assault units couldn't risk getting caught with perma AP4 against an armored unit. The world eaters formation from traitor legions actually makes power lances a very attractive option on all your fast units though

How does the maul not do more damage to armour than a Fucking sword? Does gw not understand how blunt weapons work

Don't rough riders use em? And they've mentioned rough riders in the astra militarum faction focus.

I tried power lances on a vanguard squad for fun once (not modeled). They were actually pretty good as a clean up unit. St5 ap3 attacks at initiative was pretty brutal to other marines. Usually wiped the enemy in the first round.

Rough Riders use a "hunting lance", it's basically a bomb on the end of a stick and is separate from a "power lance".

>give helbrute thunder hammer
>charge IC since he can't attach to squads now
>I go first
>I only need a 3 or 4+ to hit regardless
>S10
>concussive
>next turn I go first again
>dead chapter master

somehow I don't think it works like this but I kinda hope it does

>finally all the units with the option to exchange pistols for chainswords make sense

It's nice to have confirmation that my klaives are now just slightly better power swords instead of the awesome weapon they were but hey, a Dark Eldar player complaining is like a landwhale wondering why they can't lose weight while horking down their third quarter pounder.

All I have to do to stop the suffering is play marines. I have no one to blame but myself.

Man, I love hunting with a dynamite tipped spear. Just like the old days.

It's the ability of the weapon to actually bypass the armor. Mauls, hammers, maces, they rarely actually get by the armor, but rather apply shock. The whole reason why maces were so popular in the late medieval period was because you wanted to get your opponent on the ground so you could finish them with a blade to the face or the groin or arm pit. The mace was fantastic at doing that to armored opponents.

Here's hoping units all get power WEAPON options and not just what they have in the kit. If so, I might need to start an ecclesiastical crusader force... Though swords are decent anyways.

We dont really know anything yet for sure, these teasers dont offer a complete picture

>vast majority of power fists will hit on 4+ or 5+
>can never hit on 2+

So... are fists dead?

power weapons have a Monomolecular Forcefield™ at different power levels so it could be argued that power swords put all the power into the field, while mauls spend some power making it hit harder so it has more force but less molecule-splitting sharpness

It's meant for shit that don't dodge

Point. Bladed power weapons are literally cutting forcefields. Blunt power weapons are just tearing through shit.

the majority of power fists attacks in 7th hit at a 4+ so probably not. and it seems like hidden power fist is back because muh wound allocation

inb4 CSM still has the retarded champion rule that makes all sergeants suicidal idiots

With the way initiative AND unwieldy are being replaced, I expect the Thunder Hammer's rules will also see some big changes

These are just the basic power weapon lineup.

They didn't mention things like Ork Power Klaws unless GW have suddenly decided to make Ghazkull and Meganobz useless.

>S10
i think you mean S12 brother

Pic related is a modern harpoon cannon. The harpoon has an explosive warhead that detonates after entering the flesh about a meter while the barbs prevent the animal from sinking.

I imagine rough rider lances to be like that, but on the end of lances rather than a shot harpoon.

Forgot pic

vehicles ignore unwieldy now so I'm assuming they will still do so in 8th. I hope so, why should a giant mech give a shit about unwieldy

oh yeah I forgot

wew lad

Why do you think they got higher str. but little AP?

Sword has a pointy end which enables you to put a lot of force into a small area, making it very convenient in thrusting into weak spots and shit.

You can aim a sword point at the weak spots in armor much better then an axe. ...but that begs the question, can you half sword with a power weapon? Do power sword quillons have a power field so you can mordhau? If so Power Swords might actually be more awesome then lightsabers.

It's unfortunately unlikely due to the power fields ripping your hand apart

Unwieldy is being removed entirely. If a big thing's use of a weapon is supposed to differ from the norm, I expect the stats will be listed under the model's profile

I'm really hoping GW throws out a Dogs of War style army with the new edition

I'm actually stoked as an imperial fists 30k player. It means my phalanx warders could be awesome with effectively s5 t5 5+invuln in close combat.

wat

I thought unwieldy = -1 to hit

Like the power fist is listed as being -1 to hit to represent its large and slow nature.

>rogue traders coalitions
imagine

Kroot, vespid, rak'gol, rogue traders, beast men and other mutants, maybe human corsairs, to professional but independent units with equipment ranging from primitive to exotic imperial tech.

>can never hit on 2+
because there are no positiv to hit mods?

So... drop pods can be hit more easily?

Yeah, and now all those are 5+.

Can't wait for IG sergeant to pay 25pts. for two S6 AP-3 swings that hit on 6+.

Marine with sword vs marine

(2/3), hit (1/2) wound (5/6) aren't saved
=0.277 wounds per attack

With fist
(1/2) hit (5/6) wound (5/6) aren't saved
=0.347 d3 wounds

So even against the basic heavy infantry, fists are superior, against multi-wound shit like nu-marines it isn't even a contest anymore. If anything fists are signficantly more viable now, without striking last anymore there's no downside to fists compared to swords baring the points cost, unless you're fighting 1 wound t3 models.

It certainly makes fist guard sergeants less an auto include but still a potentially dangerous prospect for the enemy.

But what's the points per wound? I bet swords will be more efficient against meqs, axes even more so.

Ok, "can never hit on 2+ outside of a very specific situation/special rule."

like not wearing a power fist?

Maybe an area on the back of the blade could have a reduced power field that combined with power armor gauntlets permits half swording? *Headcanon established* I'm totally modeling this.

He's going to have 4+ to hit. so he would hit on a 5+ with a fist. And S6 now means you are wounding T7-T11 on a 5+ plus the damage rating means you still do multi-wounds to things that aren't t3, unlike currently where it's instagib a rival colonel, 1 wound only to everything else. Assuming points costs remain close to how they are it's still not a good use of 25pts, but it is better in almost every way than it is currently in 7th.

I think 6 would actually be a lot. I'd expect closer to 4 or 5 personally. Chaos lords weren't exactly shrugging off Lascannons before without a bike

>Power fist can never hit on 2+ outside of a very specific situation/special rule, like not wearing a power fist.

I guess that makes sense.

hasn't that been the norm for a lot of years?

>in half

Clearly a Chaos Lord has 12 wounds.

Assuming the Orks Power Klaw has the same profile as the power fist... I am okay with this.

I'm guessing Ork chainchoppas/regular choppas fall under the same umbrellas chain sword as well.

Either way, I do like the last line here:
>Make no mistake, when facing a dedicated melee unit, stuff is going to die in combat really, really fast.

You can't attach an IC to units, but you CAN surround an IC with another unit, making it so you don't have any clear line to charge him, and thus necessitating killing the bodyguard unit first.

Does the ap value carry over from infantry to vehicles meaning the power sword is reducing the armour save of a russ to a 6+?

>He's going to have 4+ to hit

Didn't a leaked To Hit chart make it so that same WS = 4+; higher WS than target = 3+; double WS or greater than target = 2+; lower WS than target = 5+; and half the WS or lower than target = 6+? So if he's swinging at anything with hither WS than 3, he'd hit on 5+. which is downgraded to a 6+.

>chainsword marines are now actually useful in CC

cautiously optimistic. if this means assault marines and berzerkers are as deadly as their shooting counterparts now then aw snap

Yes?

So it's like 5th edition?

Not bad, though I can't see the benefit of maul/axe over a sword, especially in a MEQ-heavy environment

No. WS been removed. It's just "hits on X+" now.

Yeah, a power sword cuts through the armor of a leman russ like butter, but there's so much mass you have to do a lot of hacking anyway.