Which ship has the highest standards of overall professionalism?

>That's because the Federation ships aren't warships. They build exploration ships.

The Defiant was the first close thing to a warship, but even then it was considered an escort cruiser.

That being said, the Andorians (who despite being a founding race of the Federation LOVE war) have battlecruisers.

this

Star Wars. The empire maintains a consistent uniform on consistent ships without any real embellishment and has universal standards. With the other two ships the quality and ability of those ships will vary wildly but one Star Destroyer is essentially the same as the next unless a dark jedi is on board.

>Defiant

Designed to fight the Borg, as a lot of ship classes were. And despite her size, she was considered a pure warship, completely no frills, and as such, had a considerable array of weapons. It wasn't her size that dictated her class. She was a Destroyer class vessel, pure and simple. Quick, could punch well above her weight, and armored.

Unfortunately thats always never enough because no one who has ever written anything for Star Trek, including Gene Roddenberry, knows anything about the Military or Naval Warfare

I did kinda like that nutrek brought back the idea of pre-WW1 dreadnoughts in the simplest form - too bad it was wasted a bbeg ship

Historically, fascist states tend to become increasingly inefficient at their higher ranks (mostly due to eccentric and narcissistic senior party members), and so I wonder what that entails for the Empire, given that their highest echelons feature murderous space wizards.

>The ship that knowingly took children into dangerous situations. Very unprofessional.
Admiral Nelson started as a midshipman at age 14. Say what you will about the ethics of taking children into harm's way aboard naval vessels, but cast no doubt on its long and storied history.

>mfw the Royal Navy used to kidnap kids in coastal towns and make them work the pumps on their ships or carry powder from the magazine to the guns.

They used to kidnap a lot of people - its called "Press Ganging" - age of sail line ships were often split between pressed, able seamen, and officers, with the officers being the minority. Why do you think mutinies are such a huge deal? If a ships crew wanted to, they could mutiny easy. Hell, half the job of Marines is to keep the crew in check, and the other half being to fight the enemy.

But kids. That's unarguably worse. Probably.

>Especially Gene Roddenberry

fixed that for you.

>But kids

How do you figure?
If your a kid on the streets, you probably have no parents because they died, and if you do, your moms probably a whore, and your dad was a john - you probably got arrested for stealing food, or might have stabbed a man for his coin purse. Guess what punk? You can go to jail, or go serve aboard his majesty's frigate.

At least press ganged, you get a meal and you get to work, and you get camaraderie.

Yeah, or if you're a kid on the street, you're a kid who's been told to go buy bread.
Criminals were sometimes offered the choice, but it also happened often they just grabbed random people, even without any naval experience, and threw them on ships.

So, one note. The thing about the Defiant is that the Federation crammed a Galaxy Class ship's weapons and defenses into a hull about the size and crew capacity of a Klingon Bird of Prey, and did so by making slight sacrifices in speed and cutting out everything that wasn't a gun, shield, or engine. Thing is, this isn't actually that useful except in the context of fighting the Borg and Dominion, because the Federation doesn't usually win battles with guns and ships. The Federation wins on technical ingenuity. See the Tachyon Net Blockade during the Klingon civil war, the deflector dish gun intended for use against the Borg before Wolf 359, etc. It's better to have a Galaxy class than a Defiant class, because the Galaxy is equipped to pull that sudden win-condition out of its ass.

Also, the Galaxy can do all the humanitarian, rescue, scientific, and exploration missions that are Starfleet's real mission in peacetime, whereas the Defiant is just guns. And in wartime, the Galaxy can carry over 6000 troops in addition to its crew, while you can cram less than a hundred people aboard a Defiant.

Thats pretty much why the Defiant was scrapped, I think.

And then the Dominion War proved that actually having little bundles of big guns can actually be useful, so they actually a built a couple past the proto-type stage.

I can't see them having much to do after the Dominion War. Do they have them run around or keep them mothballed until war?

Well, with a small crew, I imagine the upkeep cost is minimal, so who knows.

But Starfleet never throws anything away, and during the Dominion War they had Excelsior class ships fighting

Keep in mind that the Defiant was built at the Utopia Planitia yards roughly during seasons 5 and 6 of TNG. You know who was in charge of those yards? Sisko.

It just makes perfect sense that starfleet's most kickass ship was designed by the man who punched Q in the face, poisoned an entire planet over a personal grudge, and had a serial killer's mind in his head.

They're around in Star Trek Online, if you consider that canon(it's tier-2 canon, like the novels and other video games.)

Overall: I sympathize with the USS Defiant because I, too, am small and angry.

Excelsior's just a good design, no reason to take it out of service. Hell, a refitted one was able to go toe to toe with the Defiant in one ep of DS9.

>Excelsior's just a good design

One of the best designs

My shipfu

But not the best. Akira is the prettiest design, what with being the sleek, deadly TNG update to the Miranda, and who can say no to a ship named Thunderchild?

Might be pretty comfy captaining one. Cramped utilitarian space, but you'd at least know every single person on board by name.

Maybe it's just me, but I like the small but powerful ships.

Say what you want about 40k ships being retarded, if a macro cannon battery hits pretty much anything, it's going to have a really bad fucking fucking day.

>but I like the small but powerful ships.

Long ago I had considered running a Star Trek campaign, and had decided to do so by putting the players in control of a small destroyer with a duty of patrolling sensitive borders and escorting convoys through rough space. Specifically because I prefer the small and comfy ship classes where everyone knows everyone else, and your options are a bit more limited.

Pic related

Apparently there's a new Trek RPG coming out, Star Trek Adventures. Might be good for stuff like this.

½mv2
Assume it's made from lead
Make it 100m calibre
Give it 2%c-7%c speed

That's an obscene amount of kinetic energy.

>Criminals were sometimes offered the choice

If the choice is between prison and getting to go to exciting locales and kill the people there, I'd be pretty stupid to pick prison.

>I can't see Star Fleet winning it either considering the shenanigans they get up too.
>too

Learn the basic rules of English before you criticise more complex concepts, friend.

There weren't really prisons, back then. Mostly it was death or public humiliation that was often deadly. Treatment on ships was already pretty terrible for voluntary sailors, and it was much worse for criminals.

>There weren't really prisons, back then.

Sure there was, where do you think tax evaders went?

Bare in mind the features you see are based on the miniature art so that you could easily recognize the systems on the table. In reality things like it's cannons are actually several dozen weapons on the facing.

>where do you think tax evaders went?

Botany Bay

None of those are UNSC ships

Are you angry about something besides the grammar mistake? Seems like it.

There is a difference between taking children on as crew and them being basically passengers.

The Federation would probably be opposed to the first.

>it's tier-2 canon, like the novels and other video games

When did Star Trek officially get a tiered canon policy ?

Last I saw anything written by Treks owners, the policy was that the TV series and movies are canon. Everything else isn't.

Probably mothball them. It probably helps with diplomacy if the only ships Starfleet is flying are the multi-role exploration/science/humanitarian aid ships. If they are trying to give the impression that they only used the Defiant class because they had no other choice.

if by "professionalism" you mean "suffer not the xenos to live" than warhams got everyone beat by several miles of bloody chopped-up and charred alien corpses.

Nah, if you were sent down unda, you were basically considered impossible to rehabilitate. And if you were considered too much of a badass for even Australia, they sent you to Norfolk Island where you were basically doomed to die.

You say this, but given how much they used it for that role in TNG, the federation has a serious habit of showing up to negotiations with a battleship. It's a subtle "big stick" sort of thing.

Well, we kinda see that in Rogue One with this cheeky cape-wearing cunt always bickering with Tarkin.

10/10 post.

Could the pressed, if proven exceptionally talented, advance into officers?

Generally no. Officers of the time had to actually buy their way into the officers' ranks by purchasing a commission. It was worse in the Army, but even in the Navy, you had to pay a good chunk of cash to get a Midshipman's Berth, and a common pressed-sailor or even an enlisted sailor would never be able to save up the amount of money needed.

A mars-class battlecruiser manned by adeptus mechanicus crew, you have tech priest that believe the ship their deity manifestation, cyborg crew Manning every post and can'tleave it because they're binded to their posts, skitarii serving along as arms men, also the battle cyborgs being living tanks guarding every corridor and several hundred more techseers keeping the ship running smoothly.

Yo.

Admittedly in War of the Worlds, the HMS Thunderchild is the only human-built thing that manages to take down a Martian tripod...but it's destroyed shortly thereafter by other tripods.

Of course, there's the rub...they have to hit.

>Historically, fascist states tend to become increasingly inefficient at their higher ranks (mostly due to eccentric and narcissistic senior party members), and so I wonder what that entails for the Empire, given that their highest echelons feature murderous space wizards.
So the Imperium has the same problem, but they are both better then the dirty space hippies.

Unless you had a particularly relevant skill, like carpentry, cooking, etc., your ass was, at best, a sailor. Plebs don't become officers.

I don't mean to undermine the thread, but what about this ship?

Don't imperium ships have stupidly long range and are aimed by psychics?

I seem to recall that they engage from outside cisiin with the naked eye, which is pretty fucking far for a 5km ship in emptt space.

*vision

The Imperium isn't fascist, they're feudal.

For fuck's sake they don't even have a unified economy, they can't even HAVE a planned economy.

According to BFG lore if you could see the enemy ship with naked eye it was consider a knife fight.
Even the rules made the point that table top battles where an abstraction of the abstraction.

Sadly some artist and authors went full grimderp and show Macro batteries manned like old time canons instead of the rapid barrage of "fuck this area in particular with empire state building bullets" as it was intended in the BFG lore.

Imperial Navy crew is mostly comprised of trained crew.
The random skill level crew comes from the civilian ships, not the navy.

With Keyes at the helm, probably of the upmost professionalism.

above even vader's personal flagship?

Yes
Even Admiral Spire would be better.

The Imperial ship's non-slave crew would be the most professional of either ship, as they are drilled/beaten into being perfect soldiers and typically don't even bother with crew politics or rout, they are all willing to fight to the last man.

The slaves on the ship however, that's another thing.

Yes. He seems like a guy with a lotta charisma.

tangentially related
How effective would a MAC cannon be in 40k
I've seen plenty of bitching over direct ground confrontations of the UNCS vs IG.
Would a MAC cannon = Macro cannon?

The 40K universe seems really overpowered, but there's probably some comparison stuff on Spacebattles or something.

A mac cannon would be equal to a single macro cannon. 40K ships have batteries of those.

Sure, but they'll never hit a Starfleet vessel. Impulse speed is 25% the speed of light. Warp 1 is the speed of light. Even in the 2150s, Earth was starting to build ships capable of hitting Warp 4.5, which is described as "Neptune and back in six minutes". And they have FTL sensors as well.

Starfleet's weapons might not be quite up to 40K standards, but their tactical speeds are overwhelmingly better.

Yeah, fair enough
That sounds pretty rapey

How about a NOVA bomb?
Can take out a moon, exterminatus half a planet by itself?
how would adding cloaking into the mix affect things?
could the IN just detect the souls of the people on board using psykers at close range and aim using that?

>How about a NOVA bomb?
>Can take out a moon, exterminatus half a planet by itself?
God, I fucking hate NOVA bombs. I wish they were never introduced to the Halo series.

A MAC cannon would be similar to a single Macro Cannon.

Imperial Navy uses Macron Cannon Batteries, that on top of being precision shots they paint a particular area in stupid size bullets.

Rogue Trader ships are civilian ships, while the Imperial Navy are entirely composed by trained and professional crew.

40k, just like Star Trek or Star War suffers from writers that know nothing of the military. So we have very retarded tactics everywhere.

Starfleet vs Imperial Navy would be a race to see who can use their techno blabla or Astropath psyker fuckery faster.
Since in a straight up brawl Starfleet could not dent the Imperial ship and the Imperial ship would need a lucky shot.

>Star wars. Easily.

nope. it's a question of motivation.

Star Fleet is fighting to protect the free peoples of the galaxy from the monsters of the night.

the Imperium of Man is fighting the forces of Hell itself.

the Star Wars Imperials just aren't playing for the same stakes.

>ouch
Are they really that bad?
As a comparison, did the writers of halo do a better job?
Or alternatively, how realistic (structure wise/tactic+strategy wise) was the UNSC.

And how is that relevant to professionalism?

The guys of Bungies at least worked with actual soldiers for their games.

UNSC fleet tactics was terror against civilians, against the aliens it was basically shoot till something breaks.

>Are they really that bad?
One bomb can obliterate a planet, so yeah. They're dumb.

Glorious heritage class warships.

Such as the Andromeda ascendent.

incentive drives professionalism....Star Fleet fought and died against the Borg...Imperials routed at Endor.

Professionals dont rout.

>NOVA bomb
Is basically the I win bomb and some how the UNSC forgot about it, during the human covenant war.

It would be like Abaddon forgetting he had the Planet killer during his siege of Cadia... Oh that happen too.

I can see that they're pretty stupid, but what in 40k is the closest thing to them considering 40k is full of dumb shit.
Cyclonic torpedoes?

youtu.be/MBmN8p_7sOM?t=1m9s

Only the best ships are multi-kilometre.

In 40k there different levels of Exterminatus

Glassing the planet
Classic nuking
Virus Bombing
Cyclonic torpedoes

The last one don't usually explode a planet, usually just turn it into molten lava Cyclonic Bombs blow up planets. (The difference between the two is mixed up a lot in the lore)

Then we have shit like the Planet Killer that makes planets go boom and Black Stone Fortresses that can destroy stars.

>Only the best ships are multi-kilometre.

what reason would there ever be for a war-ship to be that big?

To house 12 destroyers in its hull, apparently.

Bigger and bigger weapons, engines to propel everything, point defense systems, armor, storage, etc.

When you start needing bigger and bigger weapons to deal with bigger and bigger threats it gets pretty easy to get ships that big.

oh so nova bomb = cyclonic bomb

Sorry to go off topic but is Red Foreman just a huge scifi nerd? I just keep recognizing him in in more random scifi stuff and I love it. Here is the Temporal Dreadnought he commanded in a few episodes of Voyager.

Well I mean, he was in RoboCop as well. Kurtwood Smith is pretty prolific, you just don't really notice him. I sure didn't realize it was him giving that tech room demonstration when I was like 11.

That was just a size comparison.

maybe...hard to envision with our current tech tree.

space-based warships will probably be a lot like modern H/K subs, fast and stealthy.

speaking of shit I didn't notice until years later. Look who's meth dealing ass was in Babylon 5, I didn't even recognize him until my 3rd time watching the series.

You can say that for simplicity sake.

There is also Nova cannons in 40k, table top/video game scatter and power aside, those things are mini novas.
The Imperial captain says to his crew:
>see that bit of space?
>yes my lord
>I don't want to
>understood my lord

40k space Battle have torpedos hitting other shit at proper space Battle distances

I agree with this for the most part, but compared to the Imperium and Starfleet, they're the height of professionalism even if every Imperial Officer above lieutenant was a greedy backstabbing prick.

I wouldn't want to work for any of them.

>Missing the point this hard.

Not that hard when everything else is giant ships too.

Vader chokes a guy at a meeting. Not very professional there.

The Federation won almost every war it engaged in due to superior technology. Starfleet ships are notably superior to Klingon, Ferengi, Cardassian and Romulan ships and they just kept pulling further ahead as the series moved forward. They tend to lose out ton per ton because starfleet doesn't have dedicated warships outside of the Defiant. It's why the Defiant was so notable in the first place. Starfleet is future NASA + the UN, not the future US Navy.

Yeah if you IMDB him he had a lot of weird roles.