Are Character Colossal or Gargantuan likely to ever be a thing?
Connor Nguyen
What are your thoughts on the changes to scenario scoring in SR2017? Somehow I seemed to have missed all the discussion about it. To me it seems like it skews the game towards assassination victory or attrition based play
Christopher Davis
Is the age of Infantrymachine over?
With the way the meta is now and the changes made to the game, is there any point in taking things like Cataphract Incindari or the Assault Kommandos?
Caleb Hernandez
Most of the SR2017 scenarios are dead as a doornail.
That said, Standoff is probably my favorite scenario that's ever been in Steamroller.
"Race to 5" doesn't work anymore, which I think is a good thing, but it's replaced by "build lead and stall", which definitely isn't great.
Assassination is more prevalent, but most games seem to go hard attrition for the first few rounds then turtling.
If more scenarios were live, I'd really like it. As it is, I'm left with hoping to roll Standoff.
Also, most terrain placement methods encouraging LOS-blocking terrain in the middle of the board is great.
Dylan Jones
Post C U T E Kaelyssa lists
Camden Rogers
>"Race to 5" doesn't work anymore, which I think is a good thing, but it's replaced by "build lead and stall", which definitely isn't great. This is what I'm mostly concerned about. I've had some games where the scenario points just ticked up and I could have pulled off a scenario victory if I had then cleared a zone/flag, which made the scenario feel relevant (I haven't played much against scenario oriented lists). With SR2017 it looks like I have to go all-in on the scenario to even remotely have a chance of using it
Andrew Collins
It's somewhat coming back. Iron Fang Pikemen are brutal with the new theme and CID Banez and Grymkin are looking good.
Assault Kommandos are okay against Infantry spam (Cephalyx for example) and still okay against certain Cryx/Menoth lists, but outside of that, they are pretty bad. Hope is on the horizon though, because there was a leak for AK unit attachments.
Kayden Cooper
In my dozenish SR2017 games, scenario has been in play every game in Standoff, and basically nowhere else. I have not rolled Spread the Net, but it might be in play as well with 5 potential scoring opportunities, although I'm not a huge fan of SR17 flags.
Breakdown and Pit II are almost in play. Recon II and Outlast are terrible.
Standoff I love, though.
I'd take SR17 over SR16 just on terrain placement alone; having more terrain on the board and *especially* usually having a LOS-blocker in the center of the board makes the game better. But it needs more scoring density in most maps.
Jordan Nelson
The age of infantrymachine is gone. Incindiarii at present are a completely useless unit, trust me I've tried. Even if your opponent has lots of infantry, it generally won't struggle to kill the Incindiarii next turn owing to how they went from 12/15 8 boxes to 11/15 5 boxes. Then PP "buffed" them by increasing the POW of guns that were only ever intended to drop continuous fire on things. Ever killed a Dawnguard Sentinel with your splash damage with a damage roll that wouldn't have killed it pre-errata? I have. It lost me a LOT of points and the game. Haven't fielded them since. Don't regret it at all.
We're now in the age of theme lists. A faction gets a new broken theme list, and suddenly it's all over the competitive scene like a rash. It could be heavies, it could be infantry. There is no rhyme or reason to the metagame now, it's just a crap shoot as to what's overpowered at the moment. Oracles of Annihilation, Heavy Metal, Ghost Fleet, Winter Guard Kommand. There is no metagame, only overpowered theme lists. Your faction doesn't have a good theme list? Sorry you're not part of the "metagame".
Ayden Parker
What's a better ADR replacement for Cetrati in Zaadesh2; Karn or Despoiler?
Liam Bailey
Well, what Skorne infantry are worth taking then?
Lincoln Jones
Uh, no. The Dirty Thirty is coming back as soon as Cryx changes in CID go official.
Ferox are great.
Nihilators, Swordsmen, and Cetrati are playable with support.
Karax are borderline.
Camden Butler
>Arcuarii Garbage >Cetrati Good with a few certain casters. Xerxis1 and Zaadesh2 are the best >Incindiarii Garbage >Immortals Very strong in multiples with Zaal1 >Legends of Halaak Very strong with anyone who can help keep them alive to get work done >Nihilators I'm convinced they're an excellent unit choice with Mordikaar >Handlers Still go in every list >Bloodrunners Niche jamming unit, no real reason to be fielded >Ferox Excellent unit when supported >Karax Excellent tarpit >Keltarii Still too niche >Swordsmen Minifeat weaponmaster on a cheap unit is fantastic, they just need support to get across the table >Tyrant Commander Not really worth the points. Reveille is much worse now that you don't slam Nihilators into every list >Catapult Crew Still nothing special >Flayer Cannon Still nothing special >Reivers Fine unit, one of the best UAs in the game, and Skorne's only theme list at present is a gunline one >Slingers Pretty shit
So many of Skorne's things are so situational (Bloodrunners, Keltarii, Krea, Agonizer, Soulward) that I'm convinced at present that the faction is meant to be played under ADR. Either that or PP thinks Skorne should be playing list chicken every round. Agonizers in the right place at the right time win games, but those games are not games against gunlines. ADR lets you swap him and a Gobber Chef for your Krea, once again a model that wins games when it's there at the right time.
Coincidentally at the same time everyone is planning on using the new Bane theme list.
Landon Mitchell
I think it's worth pointing out that you can count all of the infantry that are worth taking without explicit caster support on one hand, and most of them require support packages of their own.
There's lots of *playable* infantry, unlike a lot of jacks/beasts, almost all of that playable infantry requires a lot of help to be worth it on the table.
Samuel Gomez
Cetrati are garbage with Xerxis1. I've completely replaced them and never looked back. You go into the game praying for tough streaks otherwise you lose an expensive unit that doesn't achieve shit all game.
Nihilators might be good if Mordikaar ever stopped sucking giant dicks in Mk3.
Catapults are ok as free points with certain casters in tier, the CID changes to the SA's actually make them a useful option. They hide behind the SA's and help them deal with infantry jam, which is what they suck against. Flayer Cannons still suck dicks though.
Slingers exist for Rasheth and that's about it. AD Arcnodes that are relatively cheap. He likes a min unit of them and every now and then their ammo types come into play.
Christopher Hill
What about the solos?
I remember the Pain Giver Master Tormentor, Extoller Soulward and Void Spirit all being good or decent.
David Hughes
Extoller is still as usual, either you really needed it for the matchup or you don't give a shit about him
Void Spirits are fucking shit with everything except Mordikaar, similar situations for the AG's and Zaal.
Master Tormentor is better than he used to be, but it's a hard ask to find room for him or any combat solo that doesn't hit like a fucking freight train when Skorne has so much fucking support bloat because PP balances them around a bunch of situational support because they're fucking retards.
Nolan Ross
>Cetrati are garbage with Xerxis1. I've completely replaced them and never looked back. You go into the game praying for tough streaks otherwise you lose an expensive unit that doesn't achieve shit all game. 15/24 against charging infantry is not garbage. You don't pray for tough, it's just a nice thing they have. Do you even know just how huge their buffs were in the errata? -2PC, +Tough, +Set Defense. These guys with buffs and an Agonizer can hold off fucking WAVES of infantry man. >Nihilators might be good if Mordikaar ever stopped sucking giant dicks in Mk3. Mordikaar is fine so long as your opponent's list complies. He can't beat heavies, and has a strong assassination game. Ferox being strong works out well for Revive, but fuck man I'd love if he had SOME kind of buff. Hollow doesn't really count. D&C0 + ADR are the only way he can be played semi-competitively. The real problem with Nihilators is they're a solution to a problem that doesn't exist right now; masses of melee infantry. >Catapults are ok as free points with certain casters in tier, the CID changes to the SA's actually make them a useful option. They hide behind the SA's and help them deal with infantry jam, which is what they suck against. Flayer Cannons still suck dicks though. Yeah they're great when you don't have to pay points for them. See: they're shit. >Slingers exist for Rasheth and that's about it. AD Arcnodes that are relatively cheap. He likes a min unit of them and every now and then their ammo types come into play. Slingers are yet another unit that makes me think Skorne is the ADR faction. Even though their base POW and RAT are laughable, the extra dice against non-Menoth warmachine factions will actually get damage in. Flare on a low RAT model is a piss take though. Having a min unit in your Specialists to bring in and scare Wall of Steel/Shield Wall infantry into spreading isn't the worst thing though.
>15/24 against charging infantry is not garbage. You don't pray for tough, it's just a nice thing they have. Do you even know just how huge their buffs were in the errata? -2PC, +Tough, +Set Defense. These guys with buffs and an Agonizer can hold off fucking WAVES of infantry man.
Pretending that infantry still get used. Kek. They're so fucking terrible right now people are taking CID SA and using it to replace them.
>Yeah they're great when you don't have to pay points for them. See: they're shit.
They do a job you need them to do in tier and they're really your only option. What you were going to pick, another extoller?
Hudson Murphy
Despoiler.
Jaxson Evans
>We're now in the age of theme lists. Yes and no.
There has been only 1 theme list to elevate what people where not taking already and made people take it (And I think the list just brought it to peoples attention).
In the popular theme lists, nothing in them was something that nobody took or spammed before.
Matthew Roberts
No need to put on the Jamaican accent.
Mason Ross
>They're so fucking terrible right now people are taking CID SA and using it to replace them.
I kind of want to know what building around a Siege Animantarax would be like.
I was thinking Rasheth and a Titan herd, but I'm not sure, nor am I sure that building around a Battle Engine is worth it.
Asher Morales
For the Retribution of Scyrah, what myrmidons are worth taking, and in what numbers?
I heard Gryphons are amazing.
Robert Lopez
>Pretending that infantry still get used. Kek. >what is Legion of Steel >what is Ghostfleet >what are Steelheads
Caleb Parker
one of these things is not like the other
Aaron Wright
> tfw I go to a game store where they are selling their WarmaHordes inventory for 55% off because nobody buys it. > tfw I don't buy any of it because Trollbloods are my main and I have no faith in PP to make them better even when they've been average at best for over a decade.
I want them to be fun/good, but they just aren't. I have spent so much money already. I just can't justify buying more. Even at 55% off.
Liam Mitchell
>Naaresh >Hexy2 >Xerxis2 >The locks I picked up to start this army >Shit Tier Welp...
Brandon Young
Griffons are still good, but not as amazing spammed with Vyros2 as you might initially think, as the limit on Synergy to +3/+3 caps them on the top end. It's definitely playable, but it's not in the same league as Amon or Harkevitch jackspamming.
Discordia is awesome.
All of the heavies except the Daemon have some sort of place; if you're looking to spam a heavy, multiple Hydra lists are freshly hot. With infantry (at least Cryx infantry) coming back, I'm painting up multiple Manticores to deal with them.
Ret has the best jack marshal game, with being able to give Righteous Vengance or d3 force field regen in addition to the standard marshal bonuses, *and* having the cheapest Focus economy via Arcanists.
Christopher Martinez
Naaresh and Xerxis2 are not shit tier, regardless of what the other guy said.
Grayson Morris
>Xerxis2 >Shit
If you think he's bad you have no idea how to play him.
Blake Long
Zaadesh2. Put Inviolable Resolve on him and watch how he's goddamn unapproachable by anything less than DEF 13.
Brandon Reyes
You don't need to buy more stuff. But I have faith in PP. Cryx has sure received pretty great buffs overall for a large core of their faction identity, expanding towards even stuff that PP wasn't planning on fixing up.
Noah Myers
Can someone critique my Exemplar Interdiction theme list? Pic related.
The biggest problem I see with it is that I won't be able to make much use of Reznik's feat without hurting my own guys as well, but the idea is to get Death March on the Knights Exemplar. One gets destroyed, the rest of the unit gets +2 mat and vengeance. If they're fighting infantry, they're basically getting 3 attacks each in one turn (vengeance attack, normal combat attack, cleave).
Kreoss 2's feat would be a lot more friendly to the troops, and sacrosanct is a pretty sweet upkeep spell, but he doesn't seem to have a whole lot else going for him.
Kreoss 3's gonna do a lot more for the Exemplar Vengers, and he's got a lot more upkeep spells but his feat is just a tad lackluster.
What do you guys think?
Isaac Green
Reznik 2's main sparkly is Spellpiercer.
The theme list grants blessed weapons to warjacks.
It's not a great match due to the redundancy.
While the theme benefit overlaps a lot with Kreoss3's feat, Purification is perfectly fine as a feat, and free casting on top of that doesn't suck. He also has one of the best spell lists in faction.
I'd look at High Reclaimer as well because even before the theme he liked to run Exemplars, and your general list build plays into HR's strengths pretty well.
The Judicator is honestly not very good. You will most likely do betting taking Tristan with two Redeemers and then something else to fill out your jack points (a second Reckoner isn't bad, Templars are a good choice for the slot, too).
Kayden Fisher
What synergies does Zaadesh have with the rest of the Skorne army?
Charles Campbell
He can deliver our slow beasts with cloudwall, makes Archidons disgusting with Flying Counterchargers, and his fear allows Titans to one round colossals with paingivers. He's most comparable to a blend of Karchev and Haley 1
Juan Lewis
>his fear allows Titans to one round colossals with paingivers.
Couldn't Titans already do that? A Bronzeback or Gladiator doing that wasn't uncommon in MK2 from what I've seen.
Jacob Robinson
An enraged Bronzeback can't even kill a Cryx colossal.
Evan Martinez
How do you play Naaresh, beast heavy?
Angel King
An Enraged Bronzeback (With a Free Charge) has like a 52% chance of one rounding a Sepulcher.
Brayden Diaz
47.6%, actually.
Jason Phillips
Well shit, no, that's ignoring Grab and Smash; with that it's around 73%.
Nolan Watson
Naaresh has a lot of merit as a counter to jack spam and beast spam lists, because his has the armor cracking to deal with them and Lamentations makes many of those casters very sad.
Defensively, the feat allows you to survive an alpha from most of those lists, while also giving you the armor cracking to deal with them as situation dictates.
Naaresh is also incredibly mobile, allowing him to exploit mistakes those lists often make in narrow positioning.
Tyler Jones
Whatever. The point is whiners wanna whine.
John Fisher
Curious, but has fortress construction changed in Immoren at all since the last conflict?
With things like the Khadoran Empire's Marauder, the Circle of Oroboros's Wold Guardian (though I suppose this one isn't exactly new), the Skorne Empire's Siege Animantarax and Colossals-Gargantuans in general, are fortresses going to be built to withstand an onslaught from such engines or creatures of war?
Is there even any defense against any of that other than trying to neutralize it before it nears range of a fortress wall?
Juan Davis
>Start to get into the game, followed it for years but never got much farther than picking up a model here and there >Find a local store to play at >Small but healthy player base >Overhear one of the players talking about battle engines >Learn the group has a house rule to inform your opponent beforehand if you are going to use a epic caster, battle engine, or gargossal What have I gotten myself into?
Joshua Harris
Since when did Battle Engines ever need a warning?
Isaac Russell
Well there were even more Titanic Colossals before them, so I assume they already are.
John Hall
All I know is its their group's rule.
Isaiah Anderson
72.9% it looks like.
But yeah, whiners gon' whine.
Leo Jackson
What's the most damage a Gladiator can do to something then?
And is it even still useful in MK3?
Isaiah Torres
People that think that their perception of what is broken is the law and refuse to learn to deal with new tech. Welcome to Stagnation.
Carson Lopez
It's the only model to get nerfed in the Skorne errata because it was so point efficient.
As it stands, it's still arguably one of the best beasts in the game.
Caleb Anderson
Where do people stand on character beasts like Molik Karn?
Cooper Hernandez
To be fair, its a few that have admitted to not playing since MKI and some of their store regulars they roped into starting since the store moved to a new location with enough floor room to actually play. It may be an attitude that is dropped after the group adapts to the new edition. I hope so, would be annoying otherwise.
Jaxson Richardson
Take him with Xerxis2. You now have a P+S 18 WM that threatens 15" with free charges.
David Allen
What about Chiron here?
Hunter Evans
Can anyone good with photoshop do a color test for me? I want to try and translate the colorscheme on the left to a Retribution army, but I want to see if it will work across both infantry and Myrmidons.
Ryan Price
This image would work well for the color test btw
Landon Walker
Karn's much less universally useful than he was in Mk2, but certain casters still very much enjoy him. His assassination threat under Makeda1 is real, for example.
Morgul2 often gets a lot of use out of him as well, given his constant need to move around.
Chiron is much less known, because he's so new. He's very expensive and isn't obviously good, but he has a lot of tools and benefits under the trunk, so to speak. His gun is great, his defensive abilities are a lot better than people give him credit, and his ability to manage fury is far more powerful than one would expect. The fact that he counts as a Drake for Kreas is also very nice.
Leo Green
>Niche jamming unit, no real reason to be fielded
I heard Mordikaar had some odd but effective synergy with Bloodrunners.
Daniel Wright
If they played MKI then I'm not sure what the hell theyre bitching about. The entire game was broken as fuck back then.
Isaac Mitchell
Hence the stipulation on epic casters.
Matthew Garcia
Chiron feels like he's missing something from the army to make him really stand out. I'd personally like to see some new basilisk beast to really make him shine. Make a unit of basilisk pups or something.
Hudson Smith
He looks derpy as fuck, that's what. Lazy damn sculpt, looks like a regular basilisk.
William Fisher
From the most recent insider.
What 'jack is in this picture? It looks Khadoran in style, but it doesn't look like any of the current lineup of Khador warjacks.
Jace Collins
Its the Khadoran Colossal missing its head and extremities.
Bentley Robinson
He's just an all game piece.
Good gun, still good in melee, good defensive tech, good fury management tech, has extra tech against Hordes.
No one good, obvious reason to take him, but a lot of little reasons.
I'm personally running him with Hexy1, and enjoying him in there. He's got the tech to deal with a lot of infantry, and Parasite means he hits way harder than one would expect.
Daniel Butler
>Shit Tier >Zaal2 >Xerxis2
>and hell, Morghoul3 just came out
Oh Veeky Forums, why can't you be good at games?
Kevin Phillips
user, it's the general. The more certain an user sounds, the less authoritative the statement.
Gabriel Bennett
So what's wrong with Morghoul3?
Noah Sanchez
Who are the best warcasters/warlocks in the game? If you're feeling more ambitious, how about per faction?
Luke Sanders
Harkevch and karchev.
Run many jack. Jack is funny looking.
Chase Cox
best casters: Haley2, Haley3, Deneghra1. in no particular order.
Justin Perry
A few things to be honest.
>Hidden Blade instead of Weapon Master >2 upkeeps basically mandating either Despoiler or Marketh or both >Cost 3 offensive spell basically being his main schtick on a Fury 6 caster which basically means you definitely want Marketh >Said cost 3 spell is also low range so you want bonegrinders/cyclops shaman as well and/or Marketh >feat is warrior models only >escorts don't have Acrobatics >his main schtick is completely ignored by Legion >no damage buff >hit buff is dependent on Marketh/Cost 3 spell/sacrificing an escort >flashing blade is wasted on him
John Cruz
I hope you are prepared to grind all day long.
Jaxon Ward
Hey dude, I'm the autist that posted the Jak and Daxter scheme a while ago so this didn't take long to do. If you'd like anything changed I have some time tomorrow.
>Naaresh >Zaal2 >Hexeris2 >Xekaar >Morghoul3 >Xerxis2 The only ones in there that are shit are Xekaar and Morg3. And the latter only due to being worse than Morg2.
Eli Barnes
Worth noting that Morg3 has one of the best games against CoC in the entire game.
David Sanders
Ouch. Seems they only did the jump from GW games quite recently. It'll take a while for them to get away from the mindset that houserules are necessary to fix the game.
Benjamin Sanders
But does he really do it better than Morg2? I know blinding TEPs is disgusting, but do you really need more than 1 turn of that?
Lucas Ramirez
Morghoul2's range of blinding is also 2" further.
Juan Campbell
You need to git gud user. Trolls are fucking awesome and have a bunch of excellent options
Josiah Nguyen
Put this together real quick too.
Luke Howard
Remember when the Trollkin brick was a thing? Remember when they nerfed warders as soon as trollkin started doing well in the meta? Remember how they sat on their hands with respect to BANEZ for all of MK 2?
PP doesn't care about making a balanced game. They wish they were GW. They hate the players who want a competitive game with balanced rules, because it makes them do work. They want to dictate what people buy without having to earn it; they don't want players to avoid underperforming units because it hurts their bottom line.
Nolan Collins
Wow, thank you! That's exactly what I was looking for, it really gives me an idea what I'd be working with. I'll likely do some tweaks along the way, but it looks promising.
Anthony Turner
Whoa there lad, be careful you don't cut yourself with all that edge
Hunter Brown
Your welcome, dude.
I think that Myrmidon has potential. Reminds me of Megatron from War for Cybertron. I hope to see something like it in /wip/ one day.
Parker Perry
Props user for helping another user out, that actually looks like a prett slick scheme
Dylan Russell
Well Trollbloods are the victim faction in the fluff.
Ryder Sanchez
Also Menites, who, based off of the Siege of Sul, their own god doesn't even want them to win.
Justin Williams
>Siege of Lul Menoth realised that his Protectorate are a bunch of assholes doing more to harm belief in him than good. When your followers are burning down towns because they can't physically build a church in your name, something's gone wrong.
Caleb Robinson
>their own god doesn't even want them to win He wants them to win. But what is far more important to Menoth is that his followers stay 100% loyal to him. And Hierarch McFucktherules was not. he got drunk on power that wasn't his.
Eli Ortiz
Naaresh is a worse Zaadesh2, Hexeris2 was quite literally created to deal with the Bane spam that no longer exists, Zaal2 doesn't do anything that Zaal1 doesn't do WAY better, and Xerxis2 is a fury 5 caster that wants a huge battlegroup.
Brayden Gutierrez
Yeah, I still think that that was the Harbinger backstabbing Voyle because she knew that if he pulled off what he was going to she wouldn't have as much power; he'd be too powerful of a leader. Giving a relic sword to Stryker, a guy who had gone genocidal on Menites? Fuck her. Fuck her forever. The fact the the writers thought that made sense? Fuck them too.
Jeremiah Gray
That was literally just the Harbinger. Who was also the person who engineered Voyle's death. Reznik's a loony but Severius understood how to play the politics game and get people to convert.
