Dungeons: The Dragoning 40,000 7th Edtion

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Halo has solid gameplay, and Destiny is one of the best shooters of the decade

Their resource is pretty fucking bad, mate. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used their actual resource. This kills them for a lot of concepts that need it

Chosen work better if you let them get free Devotion for raising their power stat. Right now because you gotta buy the devotion they just cost massively extra XP to advance.

I'd say make Redeemed cost Devotion instead of Faith too since it doesn't do anything at Power Stat 1 now, but that's just me. That's a bit of a buff, could instead just switch it with Divine Protection.

Oh, you're one of them.

I'm playing a Paragon now. They don't get a lot of built-in Action Point uses, but that lets you save Resource for skill bonuses, more reactions, healing surges, and spell effects. Just keep stunting and you'll rarely run out.

different user

What do you mean? They regain their resource every session, which can be faster if multiple sessions take up a scene or a day. Plus they also regain a point per successful stunt, which can be easily done if you keep stunting every test. Just say some narrative thing and you get an easy one-die. And then their Pressure Points have a fall-back to minutely adjust their test rolls.

Action Points? They have a low max, especially at start (2 unless you spend 100 xp on it for 4, which you should), but they get it back to max at the start of every session and gain 1 back every 2 die stunt, meaning if you stunt carefully they can have the fastest regain of any exalt.

>They don't get a lot of built-in Action Point uses

They get 0 actually. I suppose their Action Points are intended more as base bonus for being good at things rather than activating powers, which are generally always on.

Stunting is the only thing that saves them, and you have to wait for that.

You actually need at least a two die stunt to get an Action Point back. Not that much harder, since all you really need to do is take avantage of your enviornment.

You can stunt almost every time your hands touch dice though if you really want to. Attacking, breaking things, dodging, casting spells, making saves. All can restore resource.

There's some homebrew Paragon racial assets that take advantage of Action Points, if that helps.

By wait you mean get Power Stat 2? I suppose compared to Vampires and Daemonhosts. But not every Exaltation needs alternate recovery mechanics at Level 1.

If you want a Paragon type Exalt that uses Action Points on exalt abilities, you could try the Fool homebrew, which is like a Paragon but with debuffs instead of buffs.

Having both in the party is hilarious.

Poor Prometheans need to wait until Generation 4 for theirs and they gotta actually get hurt for it. And their resource comes back every hour. They get it faster in in-game downtime, but if there is an action-packed dungeon raid you could spend many sessions in less than an hour of game time.

It's such an integral way to how the Exalt plays (especially given their low resource cap and a normal recovery method that is completely outside your control) that it ought to be part of their rank 1 abilities.

Chosen also need to wait for Power Stat 4 to get their resource back more quickly.
Wraiths have no fast regain abilities at all.

>Wraiths have no fast regain abilities at all.
Wraiths also get more Resource and can gain more through effects that improve their Resolve, so it's not as bad for them.

Chosen do suck overall and I think they need balancing, but that doesn't mean that Paragons don't have resource problems. They don't truly come online with regards to resource management at all until Rank 2 and what uses they DO have for Action Points are things literally everyone gets.

So let them have their Stunt-based Action Points at Excellence 1. Their resource is probably the least powerful of all.

...

A Promethean has 3 resource at Powerstat 1 and gets it back at a rate of 1 every hour and there is nothing you can do to expedite that. Meanwhile, a Paragon can start at 4 and gets it back at the beginning of every session. If you need to, you can also get 1 back every combat if you buy that asset too, speeding it up even moreso.

It really depends on how much time passes between events, but a Paragon will generally get resource back faster and have more resource than a promethean at most levels.

I mean, if you really want to let them stunt for resource at PS 1 and replace their PS 2 with letting them get all their characteristics to 6 or something like a Daemonhost so they don't need to spend extra XP on it, that's fine. As is now though, they don't really suffer overmuch in my mind with having a lower resource early on.

And that's the thing, their general strength is improving what they already have like better stunting, fudging skill test results, and more dots at Character Creation. They don't even have a "drawback" that virtually all other exaltations have. As the lore says, if a Paragon wants it, he will have to work for it.

And besides, not everything has to be great at PS 1. Everything escalates at the 2nd level.

Prometheans arguably gain more benefits from their Exaltation, however. For the most part, the Paragon Exaltation is just bonus XP

What?

For comparison, this is the Fool, an alternate Paragon.

s4.zetaboards.com/LawfulNice/topic/10369300/1/

Daemonhost needs a nerf on that topic

At start a promethean's only abilities are defensive and sucking at talking to people. Unless they're being wailed on a Paragon is going to be better.

Well yeah, but whatcha gonna do. One thing to keep in mind about them though is that Free Actions of a type can still only be done once per turn by the rules, so they at least can only do their basically free resource return once per turn in combat. Still gives them basically infinite heals outside of it though.
Great starter exaltation for new players though.

>Well yeah, but whatcha gonna do.
Nerf them?

Type it up then and post it as a houserule or somesuch.

They could do with less max Essence. What's their max, 20? That's a lot.

I'd probably have to do all the Exalts at once to make sure they're in line with each other.

20 normally but actually 22 because they're basically anti-atlanteans. Having a lower limit wouldn't nerf much though, the bigger problem is their faster regain.

If I was going to nerf them, I'd probably get rid of the ability to make a willpower test to regain essence and instead just make it so you only get it back by getting hurt from that ability and biting people to inflict damage to them.
Then make Daemonic only use Arcanoi or Con rather than both since it layers with armor. If not enough, could make Unholy Might instead cost 1 essence each point you add onto a spell, since normally you can't boost them with resource at all.
That should do it more or less. Still strong, but less overpowering.

Vampires and Atlanteans have a high maximum as well

No, I just know a good game from a mile away.

Destiny JUST started being a good game, and Halo is a raped corpse of a franchise

I can accept Vampires having higher resource, since they hemorrhage Vitae daily to stay awake. High resource with Daemonhosts and Atlanteans stick out more since they're already the strongest Exalts.

Halo was never actually good as far as an FPS goes compared to its predecessors, you were just younger with less experience.

Meanwhile my Dragonblooded just laughs at all of you as she fully unloads every, single, fight.

Their resources are both high since they have downsides inflicted on using them when getting them back. The Atlantean's is more tricky, although only about 6% chance of being really, really nasty but due to how easily a Daemonhost can get it back it is more notable. That same easiness though means that nerfing the amount won't matter too much, gotta instead target how they get it back if you wanna nerf so the downside sticks out more as said here

Presuming you get your 5 minutes of rest. In a corporate raid or action packed Shadowrun of sorts, you might not get those minutes. Hope you went IO!

Always invest in conjuration. The ability to just leave is amazing.

In Homebrew, Dreamers have the same maximum as Vampires and begin play much higher (it's the sum of Mental Characteristics plus twice the Power Stat) but it drains every hour compared to the Vampire's daily.

Though you're a walking disaster radius worse than a Fool with Murphy's Law each time.

Hey, when your main goal is buff yourself then go into melee, that works.

Can't really just leave well until at least level 3, and Often times that will spoil the entire raid or mission.

Considering how much homebrew there is now, is there really anything that hasn't been made yet?

If there isn't already homebrew that emulates it by itself (either cosmetically or mechanically), then a combination of others could.

There were like, three different exalts whipped up in just the past week or two. Not really

Though around two of those follow the theme of "be sorta fused with another power"

What makes atlanteans and daemonhosts strong?

>Implying Halo 1 to Reach doesn't still hold up
>Implying it's not better then 90% of modern FPSs sans the rare outlier like Doom or Wolfenstien

U Wot

Daemonhosts get a LOT of powers that are pretty simple, but still damn strong. Free armor that stacks, an early capbreaker for all characteristics, a large resource pool that can be quickly refilled.
Can't deny that really. It's one of the easier angles to have multiple takes on.

For Daemonhosts, it's like a tier 1 goodstuffs deck. They have fast resource regain (relatively), an immortality clause as their capstone power, durability bonus (Their Daemonic stacks with worn armor)...

I'm not implying anything, I'm outright saying it was a mediocre game that had a negative impact on the entire genre.

this game needs a fleshed out Beastiary

I think there are some example monsters on the forums but that isn't untrue. The ones in actual book1 are broken from not being from the current version of the game, there is an update to them floating around somewhere.

>He doesn't stat his own monsters

I think this is the updated version.

It has a few errors (the Wheel's smartest Elementals!) But yes it is mostly better.

So, be straight with me here. Vectron is the god you pick if you don't want to deal with Devotion, right?

If you don't want to deal with Devotion, why not go Unaligned?

The second book flat out has unaligned listed. It's either apathy or militant atheism.

I wanna say Vectron and also not look like I'm completely copping out when everyone else has one.

I played with a vectron worshipper once. He got annoying by the second session. Don't do it.

In that case, go Gork n Mork. Can't go wrong with them.

I will just replace interjections like "God damn" and "Jesus Christ" with Vectron variants and then do no more.

Or the Nation homebrew alignment, since most of the items on its ladder isn't very relevant depending on campaign.

>ladder
Don't bother with alignment charts. Those things are awful.

Even if we go by basic tenets, it's still pretty "safe" for a combat-heavy campaign set in clandestine locations.

Watch out though, if you kill paramedics, cops, firefighters etc you'll take hits on it.
One of my players accidentally called down a berserk kill-mech on an ambulance.

Omnissaiah or gtfo filthy meatbags.

Storytime?

I am that player, and this is my character. It's all acceptable losses, for the glory of the people's republic of Chi- err "Hinanawi"

For context, I'm playing a Warfighter, a homebrew class that allows calling in favors at Level 5. I called in an AI-driven weapons platform mech that only designates between Party members/allies and everyone else. Needless to say, I am pretty good at widespread application of gratuitous firepower.

Has anyone finished updating the original core exaltations to fit with the later framework?

Has anyone balanced and codified more stuff for book 3?

Has Book 3 even been updated?

Well, the team was planning a raid on a Megacorp that was an Enemy of one of the party members and sending killteams after her. They decided to attack their center of power on the planet, before they could develop their power and reach further in the Crystal Sphere.

They planned it out pretty well. Half the team would be the distraction in a display of brute force against the front of the building, while the other half snuck in to sabotage and loot.
This plan lasted about 10 seconds, until all but one of the Distraction team rushed into the building and started attacking things inside.
The sole remaining distractor did the best he could though. He has the backing of a nation's highest ranks behind him and he called in a small army of mooks and a very large Mecha-Siege Engine machine to assault the building with him while he lead on foot. The Mecha-siege engine was set up with a Berserker drive so it didn't take a Pilot, with the Berserker AI set to target "Anyone not in the party". Well, the cars driving by the place were not in the party and neither were the paramedics that arrived on scene as well. The building's defenses hadn't done anything to the outsiders until they started firing on the outside of it first so the Berserker AI hadn't been reading it as an actual target. Eventually he had his hacker buddy wire into the Seige Engine to turn it on the building but by then the deed was done.

There has been so much dead on this Megacorp raid. I think there have been 4 PC deaths so far.

Book 3 was mostly abandoned since the guy making PDFs left, tragically. People just use the forums now, I think there is a thread documenting the various stuff with easy linking?

What did you mean by updating the original core exaltation?

There was a thread last time I checked, trying to bring the Exaltations from the original two books up to the perceived level of the errata/homebrew stuff.

If the Homebrew isn't being tested and fixed, then their isn't a problem.

At least we're getting the last laugh by making sure that building is going down at all costs.

>I think there have been 4 PC deaths so far.

Wait, make it 5. One guy died twice.

Things were going pretty well until the distraction team guy called in multiple Firebombs of the upperfloors of the building, blasting them with hot napalm and driving everyone on those floors downstairs, directly into the path of the party all at once. Most of the Megacorp workers were just trying to flee the building, although an unfortunate Teleport Storm Perils of the Warp proceeded to move things around for the worse though, teleporting baddies to the party, the party member into baddies and one unfortunate party member upstairs into the napalm and fire blasted upper floors.

>one unfortunate party member upstairs
Unfortunate? I got closer to my objective! Too bad the floor gave way under me and I fell all the way to the bottom so I have to start all over again. But since I lost my foot, I'll just pound the building until it keels over.

>I fell all the way to the bottom so I have to start all over again. But since I lost my foo

You fell 6 stories and your entire leg exploded on impact. You took 5 steps (somehow) before you died from massive bloodloss.

A mecha-leg is going to be fucking sweet though, I gotta say.

Homebrew is being tested and fixed or updated pretty regularly with new data gained from games and whatnot.

Yeah, we're running games that are homebrew heavy to test them in bulk.

Hero Points

The Red Army Train only stops when it runs out of fuel.

In addition to these, what really makes Daemonhosts busted is a free capbreaker for all characteristics (which, even among homebrew, is ridiculous), a free spell school/sword school/arguably gun kata plus access to that no matter what, boosting all spellcasting with a pretty ridiculous bonus, since it straight-up adds your rank. Magic is already the king of late-game D:tD, and Daemonhosts make it even stronger with 60k40 Energy Meteors or just an insane Energy Grasp slap, essentially unresistable Domination, or they can just Geas someone to kill themselves on 10k10. And that's not even getting into the GOOD stuff Daemonhosts can pull off with +5k5 to any spellcasting test they want.

On top of this all is Daemonic, which is effectively a lot of extra armor except versus magic weapons or someone actively out to kill you, a large resource pool using two of the most useful non-physical attributes, Willpower and Charisma. The only reason Daemonhost isn't the most busted Exalt in the game is that it's tied with Atlantean, which can just shit out a lot more spells and augment them to some degree rather than a few effectively irresistible ones.

Tell me more about Atlantean

How big s the Empire?

Is it Imperium sized?

Big in name only?

In proportion to The Empire of Sigmar (1/5 to a 1/3 of the map)?

The only reason Atlantean can keep pace with Daemonhost is that they get their own Demonic Tutor in Magical Aptitude, and Magical Aptitude is better. However, they have to wait until Gnosis 2 to get their equivalent to Unholy Might. Still, +3 levels to any spell (Empower Spell) is pretty good. Some spells key off of levels. Magic Missile, as an example. Magic Missile getting 3 extra levels is an effective 6k3 damage bonus, and magical damage is better than physical damage because so many more things have armor than aura. Additionally, Magic Missile may be an attack but it doesn't require an attack test, since it's not ranged touch, so, much like Blast effects, it can hit people cheesing Static Defense. Or you can just use Energyball for the same effect, but with Blast 10.

Maximize Spell lets them get away with the other half of their bullshit shenanigans (ignoring Quicken Spell, which is a whole different can of worms), since effectively setting a Focus Power test to 50 or above lets you get away with some silly things, like effectively irresistable Geases, Domination, Torment, Invisibility, Unluck, Confusion and others, as well as massive bonuses to whatever you want with Animal Power, Luck, Shield, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

And then there's Quicken Spell. I've designed games. I've played lots of games. I've written homebrew. And the number one thing to remember when designing a role-playing game, outside of 'make sure it's actually fun to play', is DO NOT MESS WITH THE ACTION ECONOMY. Vampires get away with it because outside of Celertiy all their powers are terrible and they have the harshest downside powers, but getting a free spellcast every turn, either full or half action, in addition to your usual spell-cast a turn, is just insane. You're effectively getting twice as many actions as everyone else is, and it's ONE MOTE.

Having checked the rules because I was unsure: It's only +5k0, not +5k5. Still, 10k8.

I should also mention that the Atlanteans have a fairly large resource pool, and when they get Empower Spell the downside is fairly irrelevant, with moderate resource regain much like the Promethean.

bump

did it use safeguard from blame as dark mechanicus?

Where's my werewolf love in this thread guys? or are all of you too scared to get up in the face of whatever you want dead?