If "I hit him with my sword" is a valid way of stablishing an attack because we accept that the people at the table don't necessarily need to know how swords work, it stands to reason that "I give a counterargument" should be acceptable during social interactions if the player isn't really good at it, which is quite common in the RPG scene.
Now, I don't say all dialogues should happen on a "I do this" kind of basis, as you can actually talk in real time as opposed to, say, hack a computer, but the truth stays that there's a point where the character's Persuasion skill is far better than what any real person could actually do.
In certain games it's entirely possible to convince a person of suicide simply by talking to them (no magic/powers involved), such is the charisma of certain characters. How am I suposed to roleplay that at all? Nothing I could come up with will ever be as good as what my character actually said and the way he said it, proof being I still haven't convinced anyone of suicide.
Now, another point entirely would be: if social interactions should be done verbally, why is a roll required then? If the DM needs to hear my arguments and how I put them to evaluate if the roll should be even made, why not make it instantly work if I was actually convincing enough? Why should social skills have two barriers of success instead of one like the rest of the game? Wouldn't at that point make more sense to simply disregard ingame mechanics for social encounters and just let players do their best at it?
Please remember to take your autism medication, OP.
Carter Garcia
Here is a delicious double whammy (You) for that shit.
Jonathan Cooper
you dont need to say roll or no roll. there is a way to influence the out come >dealing with a merchant and trying to sell something at fair market value. merchant is trying to get rid of items for profet and fair market value wont likely do that no modifier >selling something to a merchant at a 5% discount. merchant stands to gain small prophet automatic sale / 50% increase in chance to sell >player doing sale has been in sewage and artifact smells bad / looks like it is unpolished / potentially damaged / item of questionable interest uncertain of the condition of the item and its actual value the player will have a -1 penalty >player sells spice to a spice merchant who trades it for a slight prophet further down the line. the items intrinsic value and what the merchant wanted to buy to begin with grants the player a +1
Matthew Baker
My GM has a good solution to this. We start by roleplaying a situation. Then at GM discretion we make a roll or two.
The secret here, is that it doesn't matter what we say. We roleplay, and regardless of how bad it is, that is what allows the roll.
This encourages roleplay, while still making dice and numbers important. Additionally, it takes the edge off of actually trying to persuade/haggle/etc in real life.
Aiden Long
>>merchant stands to gain small prophet The nigger ain't getting near my pocket-sized Muhammad.
Brayden Jackson
...
Nathaniel Bell
This false equivalency again.
You say persuasion has two barriers to success where combat has one. It doesn't. Combat has a whole big system to it.
For social, you tell a lie. Then you roll, and you succeed and they believe said lie (or at least are persuaded in some beneficial manner). The true equivalent here would be if the player said "I roll to kill him". They roll, they succeed and the NPC dies. No HP, no defense or other systems. Just "Okay, user, tell me how you subdue him." then a single roll to determine if he enacts an entire fight the PC self-choreographs.
Rules light systems actually do something like this. Some systems flip it around and give more mechanical weight to social interaction. Protip: It can be more restrictive to do it this way as opposed to more enabling.
Joshua Thomas
Part of the joy of RPGs, perhaps the largest part of the joy of RPGs is the social interaction with other people. The whole basis of games is real world social interactions.
Lots of people aren't great at talking but at least, unlike the clear and present danger of giving them a sword to swing around or the pointlessness of them rolling a pinch of sulphur and bat guano between their fingers or grinding 1000 GP diamonds into dust, they can try to talk and inject some life into their character.
