How to portray religious fanaticism in a way that avoids both the "rambling evil cult" and "oppressive evil church"...

First thing they learn is levitation magic so they don't accidentally step on bugs or plants.

Scientology.
They don't really believe that shit. It's just a tax scam.

Jehovah Witnesses.
They're not evil. Just autistically obsessed with preaching.

Those Russian Christian Fundies in Siberia.
Basically, completely isolated loonies that honestly believe that everyone not part of their incestious cult is an agent of Satan. They're not violent to outsiders though. They just begin crying and fall to the ground in a panic thinking the apocalypse has started.

terrorism

>Cult of knowledge
>Reeeeeaaally interested in everything, to the point that it gets really annoying.

tfw the cult of knowledge even go so far as to measure the dick length of every male party member to learn every detail about them, but skip me over completely stating that it's "unnecessary".

I read Michel Foucault a couple years ago as part of class and I immediately saw some use in his idea that power was not a thing one either had or didn't have, but an activity.

The PC's come into town on the day an infidel is to be executed. Everyone they meet is uncomfortable and apologeetic-- they knew the infidel, but they're an infidel and God Wills It. Everyone laments the horrible necessity of the execution. Everyone comforts each other over the stress this execution is giving them. Everyone pats each other on the back and exhorts their neighbor to "stay strong" in these trying times. Keep the faith.

The pyre will burn, and the infidel--a young man who struck a priest while drunk--will writhe and scream. He will scream, and those burning him to death may cry, but none will stop it.

The next day one of those in the crow who had watched the young man consumed in the flames will show up at his mother's house with a casserole-- the mother will refuse them at the door. As they walk away, they'll speak ruefully aside to their friend.

"It's unfortunate that it happened," they will say, "but -I- wasn't the one who did it."

Adding to this.

Doomsday cult.
They don't want to bring about the end of days. They're just convinced the end of days is next month and everyone must repent NOW so they're screaming 24/7 at the market square for three months now, taking shifts.

Thatos pretty neat.

This guy gets it. Religious fanaticism manifests in many ways, and often they don't recognize themselves as fanatics.

There's a pair of parents in belgium who killed their 7 month old baby. They were hippie natural foods fanatics who decided that their baby was gluten and lactose intolerant. Just kind of self-diagnosed. So they fed him quinoa milk, almond milk, etc. He didn't gain any weight and seemed to react badly to it, so they figured he needed more "natural" vegan foods. But not milk or formula, because that's a conspiracy by the patriarchy and evil capitalist corporations.

Finally he was having trouble breathing. They brought him to a homeopathic doctor, who saw this grey emaciated kid and immediately demanded that they send him to a real hospital. They finally did, but it was too late. He was nine pounds when he died, less than half what he should have weighed.

They still insist that he had an eating disorder and required the vegan diet and did nothing wrong.

That's what fanaticism can look like. Not just the screaming revolutionaries running madly off to their deaths or the priest/imam sternly burning witches. Look around for all kinds of smug and self-righteous people and you'll find the fanaticism lurking right under the surface.

>natural food fanatics
>buying premium priced nestle/unilever BIG FOOD products

Heheheh.

Play it up like a form of voluntary OCD. Have character(s) who constantly, and strictly, observe strange religious rites and taboos. They can only eat with their right hands, and can only drink while holding the cup with their left. They can only drink from cups, so they carry a cup with them and pour from bottles into it instead of drinking from bottles directly. All of this has some religious rationalization.

The other way is to play it like an extreme fandom. They work references to their god(s)/faith into almost every conversation, and constantly interpret events via religious allegory. Have them get really picky about religious arguments ala the old "Kirk vs. Picard" debates. No violence, but an intense passion over what looks like a silly dispute to outsiders. They must always display the symbol of their faith somewhere on their person, and usually mark their possessions with similar symbols. If a product bears the symbol of their faith they feel compelled to buy it.

Look at the Sparrows from GoT for inspiration. A populist movement that sweeps through the slums, eventually worming its way into the aristocracy. The heroes are those who recognize that if this once-fringe religion becomes pervasive it could destabilize the kingdom on a fundamental level.

The Sparrows are good though. They where formed following outrage after the priests of the setting are murdered, brutalized, and their churches defiled during the war.

Their actions in the story so far include them dragging a candidate for the settings pope out of a brothel to discredit him, protecting priests and orphans, and keeping nuns from being raped. What book are you reading where they are destabilizing the nation? The nation is already broken and in shambles, the Sparrows and Faith Militant are just doing their best to protect the faithful and innocent.

Was meant for

Tell me more about these Russians, I'm kinda curious now.

The kirk vs picard example is really good. Many seemingly crazy/stupid religious issues actually make more sense when you get that deep into the theology and realize that it's just the tip of an iceberg of theory and doctrine.

The old one about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, for example. The idea is that this is the canonical case of people splitting hairs and arguing about worthless minutae, but actually the argument was whether the number was finite or infinite. That is, whether angels are subject to any of the constraints of the physical world or whether being spiritual beings lets them bypass the laws of nature. Rabbis in the 8th century had a lengthy argument about transhumanism and genetic engineering that filled volumes of religious texts but seemed totally ridiculous and impractical until just a few years ago.

In the case of kirk and picard, much of it was really a proxy for the kind of story that ST fans prefer. Kirk stories favored bold cowboy gunplay and masculine displays of strength. TNG stories favored diplomacy and science, and speeches about moral virtue and ideological purity. It's really a conflict over ideology and story dynamics.

Finally, remember that fanaticism takes many forms. We draw firm distinctions between religion, philosophy, ideology, and history, but these subjects are really all very deeply intertwined. If you're looking for a new kind of fanaticism of religion, just take a fanaticism from academia or politics and rebrand it. Keep the style, change the substance.

>European liberals supporting flood of muslims because of their ideology
it's like pottery

>Jehovah Witnesses.
>They're not evil.
Nigger, these fuckers are one of the worst cults out there right now and that's saying something. They are downright harmful and malicious and they used MUH NAZI PERSECUTION as a shield to avoid repercussion for decades.

That kind of shit happened in my city, a toddler died because of meningitis because the parents wouldn't see an actual motherfucking medical doctor.

this
in the books the Sparrows did literally nothing wrong, they're only shitty in the show because they're mean to D&D's waifu Cersei

Oh hi Putin.

Basically, somewhere in the '70s some Russian scientists scouting for natural resources discovered an incestious Christian cult in Siberia that had fled out of civilized lands when the Tzar was still around.

The Russian-Orthodox church wanted the cult destroyed, so the cult members got the fuck out and fled into the wilderness before the Tzar could take action.

Anyway, when the helicopter landed with scientists wearing clothes and weapons (because bears, also meeting with crazy people in the bush-bush) that was far beyond anything those primitive cultists could even imagine, they literally thought Satan had come to claim their souls.

>they literally thought Satan had come to claim their souls.

It was the 70's, right? The Russians were still communist, so this wasn't too far off.

Fucking hilarious.

Show the good with the bad. Make it known through the npc's that the religion gives them a sense of purpose and community. Basically, find out what draws people to organized religion irl and implement it.

Basically. Though incest is usually a pretty big no-no in Christianity. Also in genetics.

>Basically, find out what draws people to organized religion irl and implement it.

So in short:
>my parents taught me this shit
>so i do it too

>Oh hi Putin.
What are you even smoking? Go have a look at the methods they use. They literally prey on the downtrodden and brainwash them into their ranks and anyone that wants to leave gets persecuted to the brink of suicide. Not to mention all the shady shit they pull just to keep their operations running. They manage to make the catholic church look like saints, an organisation that proclaims a fucking sadistic torturer holy in the year of our lord 2016 and continues to protect child rapists and sadists.
I'm catholic btw

Nobody cares about your personal Crusade to shit on every Christian denomination you think isn't 3000% holy. Why don't you waltz on over to /pol/.

So it was just a village of Old Ritualists?

In a way, yes. Religion gives many people a sense of identity and purpose. Having this shared identity with your family and other people is one way to fulfill a person's need for community.

>>my parents taught me this shit
>>so i do it too
As good justification as any.

>They literally prey on the downtrodden and brainwash them into their ranks and anyone that wants to leave gets persecuted to the brink of suicide
Just like every other sub sect and cult of Christianity ever.

Well, yes.
>This makes me feel good.
>Why change it?

An evil Nurgle cult has setup on the planet.

The dominant variant of the Imperial Cult on the planet opposes the usage of vaccines. They believe that the vaccines are secretly Nurglite heresy.

Then invisibility so they don't steal light from the plants.

Then they learn to eat magic so they don't need to interfere with the life of another living thing to live.

Organization is evil as fuck.
But they're also very polite and "nice" about it.

>Look I get that you don't eat babies, but I do okay?

Butthurt Jehovan detected
Go get your face smashed by a door

Going to go a bit off topic here, but on the scientists carrying guns, all Russian made re-entry capsules come with shotguns for the same reason.

Try going for the "technically not wrong approach". For example, a paladin who distrusts all orcs because the Book of Pelor dictates they're evil. He's not -entirely- wrong, but he'll easily drive this dogma too far and ostracize if not outright slay even the few good ones.

Not wrong, just rigid.

>Implying superfoods, biological food and other fad diets aren't actively pushed by and appealed to by Big Food Corporations
It's just a coincidence that quinoa became the totally-healthier alternative to rice and at the same time big companies started shoving rice in the stalls of supermarkets when just a few years ago you had to go to super obscure shops to get it.

The best cult I had was from a Dungeon Magazine adventure. A little village/trading post was run by a church of a god of healing, the clerics all wore brown robes and a rope belt. no big deal. Almost everyone was a cleric, most were 1st level. they gave out cure wounds for no charge. Even the stableboy offered to heal the PCs. I thought it was a pretty cool idea- helping heroes who are braving the wilds and all that.
They thought of Jim Jones and the Kool-Aid and were afraid to sleep in the place.

I loved it.

>shoving rice in the stalls of supermarkets when just a few years ago you had to go to super obscure shops to get it.
What.

>you don't want to her me complain on the internet
>you must be a Christian denomination I dislike, suffer personal harm

Wew lad.

Have there be a good/reasonable sect as well; contemporaries vs. fundamentalists.

>rice super obscure
Where the fuck do you live, mars?

Unfortunately phrased sentence. What I meant is that a few years ago you couldn't find quinoa in most supermarkets. After it became a big thing it's practically impossible to avoid in most supermarkets. Makes me believe that big food companies themselves have a hand in pushing food trends, so they can make big bucks on the new hot "superfood". It's a great way to appeal to the masses and obfuscate the simple fact that a healthy diet today and a healthy diet 20 years ago were the exact same and don't require expensive meme products.

"X unlikely thing is true...now react rationally to it." Fanaticism is rarely irrational, it's merely not being a normie.

The easy thing is that any sufficiently rational system of belief is liable to reach such a point; simply because it values logic over social norms, so there are many examples out there.

What... So the Siberians don't murder the sky-man? What the fuck is wrong with Russia?

>incest
>no-no in Christianity
The old testament would like to talk to you

It's more like food items that are very healthy, have been for years, but were only known in select communities because they were X people food.
See kale, which for years was relegated to being poor southerners food, but then some fucker out west discovered that it was delicious, versatile, cheaper than most leafy greens and healthier to boot. It became popular, which made it expensive.
So now, it costs $6 a bunch when my mother used to buy a pound for a dollar.
Fucking people, I just want my greens.

>live where quinoa is common.
>don't like it.
>used to avoid it normally.
>Now I have to check what I'm buying because even the fucking cereal has quinoa versions.

Sometimes you just need 500g honey flavored sugar at 2:00AM to avoid burning the 'shop with the lasers.

How about we reverse it?
>cult leader has no ulterior motive beyond making money off of gullible people, preaches a vague doomsday that people need to repent or they won't get into heaven
>con artist has been exploiting members by selling them obscenely overpriced cult paraphanelia, members don't care because they believe the apocalypse is nigh
>one cultists claims he has studied the texts and believes Armageddon will occur in one month
>con artist is now scrambling to ensure the cultists do something insane (mass suicide, jihad nonbelievers, etc.) before the prophecy doesn't come true and a mass of angry rubes come for him to get refunds

More for wolves and bears, but Russian history is generally "and then it got worse".

Smoky back-room evil. They know what they're doing is wrong by any objective standard, but they don't care, because they get power for it and that's all that matters.

Bears come check the noise and find canned food.
Cosmonauts are expensive, you know.

At least we still have collards and mustard greens.

For now.

Uh that was my point mate. Biological food is just some new way Big Food has invented to sell more product in a day and age of more critical consumers.
The big irony is that biological food is often pretty fucking bad for the environment.

This is sort of what I'm doing in my current setting, except with a major religion which is in the middle of a schism and reformation. So you have the new faith and the orthodox faith, both of which pretty much practice the religion in the same way, but with disagreements on details and the purpose of mankind.

The reformers seek to abolish slavery and traditional subservience to the priest caste which is good, but their nations are currently in chaos as a result. By contrast, the fundie nations are running efficiently in a bleak and totalitarian way.

The American obsession with kale is hilarious.

Over here in the Netherlands, kale is a typical staple of poor-as-fuck winterfood.

This is more horrifying than I think it was intended to be.

> No man shall approach to her that is near of kin to him, to uncover her nakedness. I am the Lord.

I did, it still told me not to.

>I am the Lord.

Why is this so funny?

Burn one of your players at the stake as a warning to the rest

Its a non-sequitur but you have enough context to imagine God saying it.

youtube.com/watch?v=DM4-r4pN1PY

Because you're imagining some jew hopped up on acacia-DMT and wild cannabis infused incense screaming wildly and scribbling on papyrus thinking he's talking to God?

...

Wow that's funny as shit. I love Russia.

The Borgias and Pope Alexander would like to talk to you. :)

Um, other than salt and water, what food isn't biological?

I think he means 'organic' products.

CFNM, eh? Kinky, I like it.

> "I will not live in the same rooms as the Borgias lived. He desecrated the Holy Church as none before. He usurped the papal power by the devil's aid, and I forbid under the pain of excommunication anyone to speak or think of Borgia again. His name and memory must be forgotten. It must be crossed out of every document and memorial. His reign must be obliterated. All paintings made of the Borgias or for them must be covered over with black crepe. All the tombs of the Borgias must be opened and their bodies sent back to where they belong – to Spain."

He wasn't that popular with the Church. But he did solidify papal authority and essentially made Papal dominance over Rome absolute so I think he wasn't that bad. Kind of a 50/50 pope.

The Torah wasn't just read, it was sung. There's a ton of poetry, wordplay, and musical repetition. In the original hebrew, "ani Adonai Elochehem" sounds like a triumphant flourish, and it's repeatedly used kind of like a chorus. It sounds strange to your ears because you're hearing a translation-- translated songs and poems often lose some of their majesty.

Comes with two shotgun barrels, a rifle barrel, and a machete for a stock.

Um, other than salt and water, what food isn't organic?

I'd say velveeta, but plastic is technically an organic compound.

'Organic' on a food label means the product is raised a certain way. It's marketing shorthand.
>'Organic food is the product of a farming system which avoids the use of man-made fertilisers, pesticides; growth regulators and livestock feed additives. Irradiation and the use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) or products produced from or by GMOs are generally prohibited by organic legislation.

Of course 'GMO' is a nebulous buzzword in and of itself, but the point stands.

This.

In a sense the best way is still to eat local traditional food, and be picky about the quality of your meat and dairy.

True, though if I may add some autism this wasn't unique to the Torah. The Illiad, Odessey and pretty much every other important story from the ancient era functions this way. Weird phrases, forced rhymes and unusual pronunctuation are forced in to make the story easier to remember, which was quite important in oral cultures (cultures where only a tiny minority knew how to write and storytellers needed to remember the stories they sung/rhymed).

Yes, exactly. Frankly, the lack of good poetry and spoken word these days is unfortunate. Other than Joe Frank, who still does this well? And hell even he's mostly retired.

Problem is, this is how religions, ideologies and society in general operate in real life, so it has a pretty good change of causing drama or making players uncomfortable.

I spent ten minutes trying to find out which translation of the Bible that was. I feel a little stupid.

Yeah he was a fascinating character, right up there with Cardinal Richelieu.

So DEUS VULT?

Yes
Read the chain.

Richelieu invented modern France and is actually pretty popular among both the French and Catholics. He is a pretty cool guy to read about.

I've been growing most of mine for a few years, its a lot cheaper. If you're rural you'll have space and if you're urban they don't need too much. Once you get like 2 kale plants going you can alternate which you harvest from and use them for a chunk of spring, all summer and into fall. You can grow mustard greens in a flowerbox.

While we're talking about cults though, include farming. They love that shit.

local.sltrib.com/online/sw/short-creek-evictions/#content-wrapper
Evictions are beginning in Short Creek, Utah/Arizona, twin towns that are home to the FLDS, an extremist polygamist cult who's child molesting God King is chained up in solitary for life so he won't masterbate his dick off*. The cultists could stay in their homes if they signed a waiver saying they'll work with the land trust that owns their homes** but won't because they're well, the products of multiple generations of incest*** and brainwashing. Swarms of children follow the eviction teams to film them, because they're convinced it's a new chapter of oppression and they don't have anything better to do as the child molesting God King who is chained up in solitary for life so he won't masterbate his dick off outlawed play.****

*I am not exaggerating.
** All homes were previously owned by the child molesting God King who is chained up in solitary for life so he won't masterbate his dick off but when he was arrested the states stepped in.
*** The town is home to multiple unique genetic disorders.
**** I am again not exaggerating.

Amusingly, in a lot of actual legislation "organic" just means "less man-made stuff", not "no man-made stuff" - in some things (if they usually don't use many) there can be almost the same amount of chemicals used.

So we're going to derail this thread with interesting clergymen, right?

It's already been derailed into food.

If anything you guys would be administering a course correction.