Try "Why I run", great for prospective Runners looking for a hands-on demo on how Running works (replace spaces with dots): www nagnazul com/whyirun/whyirun.html
Play Netrunner online (replace spaces with dots): Jinteki net
Will have to give the moon deck a look, haven't seen it int he wild yet.
Nicholas Foster
HB decks with Moon as the star has won a few regionals apparently, and even it's supposed natural predator (aka The Undead Whizzard) has trouble keeping up even with all the hate cards.
Gavin Stewart
Oops, didn't see
Lucas Wright
Nice explosive quads.
Given the existence of MCA informants and hunter killers, it's surprising kill isn't more common, although it looks like a great candidate for Cache format at least.
Zachary Sanchez
Will sound stupid, but makes me want to refurbish my old Fear the Masses deck. Maybe hybridize with Hemorrhage or Gravedigger (though those seem to slow to keep up).
Jordan Campbell
I'm making a Valencia deck to trash asset spam. Will post tonight.
Xavier Martin
It's funny that runners keep getting interesting stuff to deal with ICE but all Corps are playing is cheap gearcheck and asset spam. This kind of meta favours Adam btw, we are getting full bleed art next Worlds featuring Adam and all his directives.
Joseph Hill
Th Servenius deck looks like it could be an interesting option too: running doesn't cost much against this deck.
Phase a, Severnius assault allows you to be hyper aggressive with very little prep- , then via Tropes you recur the FtM and start a milling phase b.
Mason Lopez
Deep RnD digging is probably one of the better ways to deal with that deck, the other one being going full DLR milling instead.
All 4 Directives I hope? AA Adam would be nice to see as well.
Austin Cox
>It's funny that runners keep getting interesting stuff to deal with ICE but all Corps are playing is cheap gearcheck and asset spam.
Well, the first explains the second: if the game keeps getting more and better options to deal with ICE than deal with asset spam, then - on the competitive side at least - asset spam will naturally be favored.
Grayson Martinez
Because God forbid people try to be interactive in a *two player game*.
Leo Brown
Yup. But that's an old problem by now.
Aiden Lewis
I think there needs to be more ice that gives you something as well as defence, or better ways to get value from ice - Bailiff is really nice for that, but I can't think of many other things.
Peak efficiency and Successful Demo sort of count I guess, and Trick of Light, Commercialisation and Red Planet Couriers to some extent. EtF, BoN, Spark and AgInfusion also get extra value from ice
William Kelly
I'm reading a guy on reddit, oh man, the butthurt is real. That guy really hates asset spam.
Tyler Moore
Played co-op Rune Age the other day and drew an event which did damage if you didn't attack it, but discarded stuff from your hand if you did. It'd be nice if there was something similar but with ice, "if the Runner didn't encounter this ice during their turn, at the start of your turn, do X".
Nicholas Lewis
It's pretty butthurt, but there's at least some good in the discussion it provoked. I've seen worse butthurt though, much worse.
That'd be cool, though it'd have to be something pretty innocuous I think.
Another idea something that built up, like a virus or something "when your turn begins, if the runner did not encounter [ice], place a power counter on it" "3 Power counters: do X" "When the runner encounters [ice] remove all power counters"
I like the idea that if a particularly smart piece of ice is left alone for too long it'll get bored and do something else with all that processing power - like making you a load of cash, drawing up new options for the corp or going out and hunting potential threats
Noah Cook
Maybe one at both ends, a piece of ice that collects counters when they don't encounter, and one that collects counters if all subs gets broken. Basically gets bored if it doesn't do anything, in multiple meanings. Build up powers need to be strong though, atleast close to Chief Slee to be worth it, though probably not as gamechanging. Even something easy like "increase corp hand/HQ size by X" would be nice.
James Jackson
"Reverse advancement ICE" of sort, get power tokens when not run (but then would have to be specific, probably central servers only), can spend X tokens to do something... maybe the runner can pay during a run to remove some tokens in one way or another.
Really interesting design space. I love the idea.
>better ways to get value from ice
That's been a big - if not even *the* - problem for a while, isn't it? How to give back value to ICE without breaking the balance. Part of why Sifr has been so damaging I think. The slight power creep during Flashpoint really made it look like things were going better, before it's release.
>MCA Informant can no longer use Troubleshooter for tag
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Pfff... gutless.
The timing structure of a run is getting out of hand.
Camden Bell
I like what they did with the timing structure of a turn. This will help newbies to follow a turn.
The run is getting pretty big though...
Andrew Wilson
Power shutdown has been shutdown >Power Shutdown: Should read: “X is equal to or less than the highest install cost among all installed programs and pieces of hardware.” (Defined value for “X”.)
RIP that combo
Joshua Ortiz
That's a really fair change.
Elijah Perry
Well yeah, it means it can do what it's supposed to, rather than just being "lol, it's combo time motherfucker"
Austin Cox
Ah, wouldn't be an FFG publication without at least one error.
Check page 21
Xavier Price
...
Josiah Hughes
Was it fun being a degenerate?
Juan Price
I've only played *against* it to be honest. But I love it when designer can live up to mistakes like that (see original Tennin).
Ian Cook
>(see original Tennin). What original Tennin?
Andrew Thompson
Because of the wording, they had allowed to put tennin-firing advancement token on any card; including the ID itself.
Hunter Lewis
I think the latter's probably better design space: The do X if all subs are broken (and creates some interesting Corp vs Runner interactions if we get more breakers like Persephone). I don't like the idea of actively punishing Runners for not well, running, given the amount of ways that already exist to punish them when they *do* run. Triggering off broken subs though forces the Runner to actually give some thought to what they can afford to let fire or not and does a lot more to get them to consider their runs more strategically.
Elijah Howard
How does Adam benefit from asset spam? Even Find the Truth is countered by Moon, unless she gets popped as part of mind games et al.
Nolan Morales
>When you kill the runner through 2 plascrete
Seeing as it was Hayley, I'm going to see that as the Prisec and Cleaner teams taking out a schoolgirl rampaging in a giant suit of power armour
Henry Nelson
>when that AA Boom is thematically appropriate
Hunter Rivera
>I don't like the idea of actively punishing Runners for not well, running, given the amount of ways that already exist to punish them when they *do* run True, but I also don't know about letting the runner sit back until they can run, like after getting 40 credits and all defenses down. I guess that's what baiting is for, but due to how a deck innately works, sometimes you don't get your baiting tools until you're way past the point of being able to do effective baits, which can be dull. Though I guess a solution would be more draw, but anyway, probably something like this:
ICE 3 rez 3 strength Barrier - Code Gate - Sentry If the runner has not encountered ICE during his turn, place a power counter on it. Remove all power counters on ICE whenever the Runner encounters it.
3 power counters: Do 1 meat damage. Only use this ability during your turn.
>End the Run
Charles Foster
I love a good bait.
Jacob Cruz
...
Nathan Perez
>not using Snare!
It would be a nasty surprise if that appeared more often.
Xavier Roberts
Snare is one of my all time fave cards.
I recall one unfortunate runner, they used Information Sifting... unfortunately I had 2 snares, so that went super badly for them.
Also EBC/Atlas-ing to put a snare in hand for Legwork runs is pretty great
And that time I used PAD Factory to "advance" it, which was hilarious.
Angel Ross
Are the Sage breakers any real good compared to the usual ones?
Henry Torres
The hexapods (someone called them that, I liked it) are pretty decent if you've got plenty of hardware/MU avoidance - we all know how good never needing to boost is.
Unusually for a "set" though, you'll probably only want one - while it's the most expensive, Adept lets you use normal shaper decoders, and it's the strongest, though 2 per sub sucks (maybe consider e3).
They also play really nicely with Deep Data Mining
Jose Adams
Also, Adam console. #Adam4Worlds
Jacob Adams
That depends if he's got legs - clearly he's got the hexapod arms sorted
Joshua King
I'm not sure that going out and getting the runner with ICE makes much sense thematically.
Maybe this: Gray Goo 3 Rex 2 Strength Neutral >End the Run
Whenever a runner's turn ends, in which they did not encounter Gray Goo, place 1 power counter on Gray Goo.
Gray Goo gets +1 strength for each power counter on it.
Whenever the runner passes Gray Goo, remove all power counters.
This is a bit dry and boring, but leveling the economic playfield a bit could go a long way.
Adrian Hall
Thematically it could refer to a thing that slowly finds and collects scraps and pieces of data about the runner from traces of when they interacted with it, sending it to Prisec teams to handle, but each time the runner meets it the data gets mixed up again.
Just extra strength is fine too I think, though I'd maybe throw in a second sub because of D4V1D and Tracker, unlikely as they are to matter.
Michael Scott
Originally, I thought it would get an extra ETR for every 3 counters, but that's a lot of text.
Whenever a runner's turn ends, in which they did not encounter Prisec Relay, place 1 credit on Prisec Relay. You may spend credits on Prisec Relay to boost traces.
Whenever the runner passes Prisec Relay, remove all credits from Prisec Relay.
Another thought occurs to me, ICE like this might one of the few types that would benefit from a lot pre-rezzing shenanigans.
Lincoln Rivera
Roller Coaster Code Gate Capacitor
3 to rez 1 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on Roller Coaster if the runner didn't run last turn.
When the Runner encounters Roller Coaster, it gains one "-> do one net damage subroutine per Power Counter on it." Remove all power counters on Roller Coaster when the encounter ends.
-> do one net damage
----
Solar Wind Code Gate Capacitor 2 to rez 2 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on Rectenna if the runner didn't run last turn.
Your hand size is increased by one for each power counter on Rectenna. Remove all power counters on Rectenna when an encounter with it ends.
-> End the run.
-----
Atmos Clock Code Gate Capacitor
3 to rez 4 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on one copy of Atmos Clock if the runner didn't run last turn. When there are 3 or more power counters on Atmos Clock, you may remove all counters to gain a click. Remove all power counters on Atmos Clock when an encounter with it ends.
-> The runner loses one click, if able.
----
Ubiquitous Sensor Network Code Gate Capacitor
2 to Rez 4 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on one copy of Ubiquitous Sensor Network if the runner didn't run last turn. The Runner pays 1 credit more per two power counters when spending a click to remove a tag (not through a card ability). Remove all power counters on Ubiquitous Sensor Network when an encounter with it ends.
->Trace(3)- If successful, give the Runner 1 tag.
James Ward
Roller Coaster Code Gate Capacitor
3 to rez 1 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on Roller Coaster if the runner didn't run last turn.
When the Runner encounters Roller Coaster, it gains one "-> do one net damage" subroutine per Power Counter on it. Remove all power counters on Roller Coaster when the encounter ends.
-> do one net damage
----
Solar Wind Code Gate Capacitor 2 to rez 2 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on Solar Wind if the runner didn't run last turn.
Your hand size is increased by one for each power counter on Solar Wind. Remove all power counters on Solar Wind when an encounter with it ends.
-> End the run.
-----
Atmos Clock Code Gate Capacitor
3 to rez 4 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on one copy of Atmos Clock if the runner didn't run last turn. When there are 3 or more power counters on Atmos Clock, you may remove all counters to gain a click. Remove all power counters on Atmos Clock when an encounter with it ends.
-> The runner loses one click, if able.
----
Ubiquitous Sensor Network Code Gate Capacitor
2 to Rez 4 str
Install only on a central server. When your turn begins, put a power counter on one copy of Ubiquitous Sensor Network if the runner didn't run last turn. The Runner pays 1 credit more per two power counters when spending a click to remove a tag (not through a card ability). Remove all power counters on Ubiquitous Sensor Network when an encounter with it ends.
->Trace(3)- If successful, give the Runner 1 tag.
Gabriel Rogers
I don't know about you guys, but I'm looking forward to trying out AgInfusion with pic related - maybe Excalibur and Wormhole too
Nicholas White
...
Jayden Morgan
Aginfusion is probably my most awaited card this cycle - even before Jemison or Stand Off, which I find lovely.
If only because I've been wanting to slot back Labyrinthine for so long. Ambush play ftw!
Let's go crazy: just imagine a meta where Exploratory Romp is played.
Kevin Watson
>Wormhole Not wormhole, whirlpool It would be amazing
Aiden Nelson
I really wonder about Whirlpool in there given the ID effect.
Will probably try without with my first build. Would be interested in seeing how you do later on if you happen to use it.
Ethan Walker
That's exactly what Rush is for though, and that's not accounting for situations where the Runner isn't running not because they just don't *want* to, but because they can't or the Run would amount to nothing more than a wasted click. If there's an etr barrier in front of pretty much anywhere that you have any reason to run, why would you bother running if you haven't found your Fracter yet?
Nolan Peterson
>That's exactly what Rush is for though
I'm thinking you're strongly discounting the fact that the ICE needs to be rezzed in the first place to work. So the runner needs to have run already. Which would actually make that part of design ICE something useful *for rush*.
The idea of those ICE would be more of being a secondary push on runner tempo. Throwing a wrench in the plan.
Of course the corp could always play card-rezzing abilities to arm the ICE, but by then if I think the investment deserves to be rewarded with something.
Also, has to add, as a rush player we're in a weird place right now. I mean, I still love my rush decks, but they've become a lot more risky recently.
Camden Cook
>but they've become a lot more risky recently. I get the feeling, all this asset hate and booming economy, plus recursion and tag removal, makes rush a bit lackluster.
Logan Scott
And then on the other side: more bypass options, more aggressive derezz, Careful Planning, the hexapods making it so that even a single SMC-ed Icebreakers can get around you two ICE gearcheck remote...
The space is very narrow. But conversely, with cards like Elective Upgrade or Graft, getting your short high risk score window to work can mean the game right there.
Hudson Howard
It's a real pain that hexapods escape the AI hate. I guess it's time to splash some Cortex Lock in my Weylands.
Jose James
I have a love/hate relationship with Cortex Lock. Being a professional face-checker, the running joke around here is that the card has been made solely to spite me.
But then on the corp side, god I love that thing.
Wyatt Young
Cortex Lock and Inazuma are the reason I started playing Overminds in my Iain deck.
Josiah Edwards
... How much do you think it costs to *do* all that? Especially before the Runner has a chance to set up their econ?
Is a *much* better way to do this kind of thing. The longer you put off dealing with it, the costlier it is to get through but it's not actively punishing me for not being suicidally aggressive. It may not be a combo piece anymore, but Power Shutdown, HHN, SEA Source, Neural EMP. It's not as though Running is entirely risk free.
And that's just when these sort of things are the outermost ICE on a server. Now consider having to get through an Eli or a Komainu just to try and turn one of those off. With an effect like this you have to account for the fact that yes, you want to establish a sense of urgency if the Runner sits on their hands for too long, but not overly punishing to account for the fact that, realistically the Runner just straight up might not be capable of making those runs every turn (Since ICE doesn't actually have a maintenance costs once rezzed. You rez it once and barring outside interference that's it. Conversely every time a Runner has to encounter a piece of ICE that's an additional resource investment, part of the reason ICE destruction itself seems to get so much traction Runner side)
Andrew Foster
>How much do you think it costs to *do* all that?
Bypass: two credits. Derezz one run on HQ (which is not unlikely to be free, the corps needs to keep money for the early remote and score) and 0/1 credit. Careful Planning or DDOS 3 credits. SMC hexapods is certainly expensive, yeah, but as with any of those other solutions, it's really trivial if it allows the runner to deny an early score to a deck whose strategy is dependent on being able to get it.
Also, the runner it still put the corp in a uncomfortable situation, both side being poor, the runner does better.
And I'm not saying rush has become impossible, just that with the multiplication of options, it's become a lot less dangerous. Which is a problem when other strategies appear a lot more reliable. I don't mind high-risk/high reward myself, but there has to be a decent enough chance of reward if we want the archetype to exist as more than fringe.
Jack Wilson
Something I thought of after that: install Adonis > Install Gray Goo protecting Adonis
Eventually Adonis ends and leaves an empty server that's growing. The runner can check it for an empty click to keep the hedge trimmed or they can let it keep growing. This is fine, until it's huge and you either have a second scoring server, which is something FFG has always seemed to expect of Weyland, or the corp puts a Sandburg behind it.
Also, if they're not unique, a corp can go wide and force the runner to play wack-a-mole with the ICE to prevent issues in the future. The timescales (turn-scales?) of competitive games might prevent this from being a huge problem, but I'm no expert on judging that. I do, however, like the idea of something between wide or deep for the corp to play.
Juan Miller
>a lot *more* dangerous.
Fuck, I need sleep.
Colton Edwards
Anybody else think Load Testing should be terminal? At least it is 5 influence.
Jacob Garcia
To prevent multiple use?
What's the fear, Clone Suffrage Movement spam? Anything else to make it worse? Because the corp spending 66% of its turn to prevent 50% of the runner's while still being on the clock doesn't look unmanageable...
Hunter Wilson
Except the aforementioned ICE tend to be Gear Check and cost 0-2 creds to rez. On top of that Corps have access to a good deal more influence free, no-strings attached econ than Runners. Beyond hard installing the breaker, which leaves the Runner open to such counterplays as Midseasons or SEA Scorch, those methods of combating Rush are all one-shots. So they nab one Agenda and you just jam another and the Runner has to spend clicks drawing into solutions which are clicks they aren't spending on a.) Econ or b.) Making runs
Carson Cooper
>Except the aforementioned ICE tend to be Gear Check and cost 0-2 creds to rez
So, yeah corp needs two-ICE remotes minimum because of bypass/rezz prevention/mid-run. One credit, two clicks, two cards. Money for ICE, let's go with one credit per ICE - and I think I'm being really generous. Two credits in the bank (now with Rubicon risk attached). Money and clicks for score between 3 to 5 of each. let's cut at middle 4. One card for the agenda.
So 6 clicks, 7 credits, 3 cards. Rushing I'd want to do this by turn 3 *max*.
Doesn't exactly leave a lot of wiggle. And that's before counting central defense that could prove necessary too (if only: HQ for anti econ and derez options)..
Henry Murphy
Hey guys, sorry if you get questions like this frequently, but I'm just getting into Netrunner and while I'm really enjoying it, I'm looking for some advice.
I've picked up a core set and started playing with a co-worker during lunch and I've got a variation of Weyland Bag N' Tag that I really like for a corp deck, but I'm having issues finding a runner deck that really "clicks". I'm not sorry When I was playing MTG I was a big fan of red burns and green fatties. I know these may not necessarily have analogues but I figure it can't hurt. I've been enjoying Kat most out of the core 3 but i think I might be able to find a better fit.
(give the thread a quick scan around that post, you'll find some more data points)
I really don't know what magic looks like these days, but drastic changes from my time I'd say the games are different enough that you really shouldn't try to search for straight equivalences.
Wyatt Stewart
>Is a *much* better way to do this kind of thing. I actually like the ICE directly after it that don't add counters if the Runner has made a run on *any* server, while still needing an encounter to reset it. I don't disagree that a piece of ice that actively punishes the Runner for not running is not a good design, but I also see room for cards that can get Runners running before they are ready that *aren't* just asset spam.
Juan Carter
Looks like the NA Champs at GenCon has the same prize pool as the Euros, sans the card holder thingy for some reason.
Now there's 5 tiers of championship, although Regionals still have the best prizes for some reason.
Connor Garcia
Has the Cache format helped to rejuvenate your local metas?
Jose Ortiz
>red burns and green fatties I don't know about red burns, but "green fatties" is big, simply strong cards, right?
If so, you might want to stick with green - Shaper often takes a bit more time to be set up, but in terms of raw power they tend to be the strongest. A late-game shaper is tough to beat
Owen Jenkins
I agree. If you pick Professor you can include all biggest meaniest programs, then just Test run scavenge everything.
Jacob Howard
Would you lose a click every turn for 3 credits instead of 2?
Michael Morris
Honestly, I think the payout from HaW is fine, it's just the cost (and the fact that you can't turn it off, but that's an anarch thing) that makes it unviable - 2 per click is the solid standard (pic related), anything above that is highly above the curve and needs serious limits/drawbacks
Jace Carter
Pic related, for example, is only 2.5 per click, and it didn't see play for a while, as anarchs were dirt poor - even with richer runners, a lot of the time you'll wait for Career Fair for this
James Turner
Which really shows you how they fucked up on Temujin, seeing as it gives 3.25 credits per click, so more than pic related, and that's before you add shit like Desperado and Sec Testing (another 2 per click)
At least it encourages ice, but man, I think it should have a higher cost or some requirement so you can't play it right out the gate
Locally I don't know that anyone even dabbled in it.
Josiah Ramirez
>archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46251368/#46344304 Nice but that's why I mentioned 3c per turn. You could recover the investment in 2 turns (like daily cast). The high cost would be justified. The thing I love about Liberated Accounts and Day Job is that, after counting the install click and costs, the efficiency for both cards is 2 credits/click. Unlike Magnum Opus and Armitage which, mathematically, will never reach that efficiency. Hard at Work falls in the same efficiency level of MO and Armitage (that is, below 2cc) which is why I think it falls short.
Blake Kelly
The requirement is exactly that: Successful runs, alongside the fact that it's burst econ and not sustained. Before accounting for the Corp ICEing the server Temujin still opens you up to all kinds of run punishment and if you don't see it early the returns will at best keep you afloat. It's certainly a powerful burst tool but I don't think it's by any means *the* econ card despite the hype.
Lucas Foster
I accidentally a bit.I think three credits *could* be fine. Would need to experiment with it. Kind of a trouble that pancakes exist though.
Jaxson Lee
Pancakes is trouble in and all itself. The card just negates the downsides of otherwise "balanced" cards (I mean, probably), while invalidates options for jank to gain clicks to compensate the click lost. I'm thinking Wyldside, but also Starlight Funding and Beach Party. These cards would be much funnier if in order to gain that click you'd have to take a tag (Josh B), eat brain damage (stim dealer) or give a click to the Corp (Akasha Sareen?)
Christian Sanders
It's mainly that it can be done on any server, from turn 1, with no restrictions - against a crim, unless you can ice all 3 centrals you're quite likely to just hand them a load of cash
Sebastian Torres
Yeah, don't much like the card myself. From a design standpoint, cards whose sole (or, well, main, you could always use Adjusted Chronotype to walk though a "lose a click if able" card unscathed) purpose is to negate the built-in balancing defect of other cards don't really sit well with me.
You can see why the designers felt the need to make that one though.
Jayden Evans
>Choose a server >No Restrictions
Pick one.
Easton Howard
I finally got TD! Now I just need someone to play with.
Christian Kelly
Abduction and sequestration plan: ON!
Xavier Lopez
Go Door to Door. Works for me.
Gabriel Scott
Alright, this is my plan for when Whizzard rotates. What do you think?
Possible options: Itinerant Protesters.
Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe
Event (20) 3x Corporate Scandal ●●● 2x Credit Crash 3x Day Job 3x Demolition Run 3x I've Had Worse 3x Peace in Our Time ●●● 3x Sure Gamble
I actually like Credit Crash, a bit on the low side power-wise but better balanced Imp in a way... Still you have to be aggressively anti-econ for it to shine, and I don't think your deck is that - especially with Peace in our Time as a fastener.
I like the BP plan but you're pretty much going all out on the asset hate train...
Cameron Diaz
Yeah, I guessed that I needed that BP sooner than later, that's why I included so many. I got Credit Crash in there as a way to vamp the Corp. I could include Siphon but I find this funnier.
Besides, this is in the UFAQ: >If the Corp prevents the trashing of the first card accessed with Credit Crash, can the Runner still trash that card normally?
>Yes.
It's true that Peace in Our Time is a nonbo here, but 9 credits is just too good to get you back to your feet, specially when I'm playing BO and MKUltra. I also considered more link, but I guess making the Corp spend credits to avoid BP is good enough, besides, deckspace. I just now realize I forgot to include Showing Off.
I was also avoiding other factions while making this deck, otherwise I'd include The Gauntlet.
Jose Hall
Investigative Journalism + Peace in Our Time makes me wonder how well Encore could do for that set up.
Grayson Hughes
Now that I think about it, there's something flavorful to that combo, with Net Mercur being what it is. Put on a show of your mad runner skills to be able to free the time to do some real investigative work.
Jack Evans
...
Asher Stewart
If you can afford it, I actually highly recommend Maw for a deck like this. (Although the extra draw from Vigil might be nice). It's super punishing to be able to be able to turn those operation accesses into additional trashes, or if you come across something you can't trash (or don't necessarily want to yet) you can really screw with some of the best-laid plans.