DMing a scifi scetting

>DMing a scifi scetting
>Be the 'dumb' guy in a group of mathematicians and computer scientists
>"scientifically this scenario/science/action doesn't make any sense because of blah blah blah"
>Constantly feel like a dumb ass as I try to flag people down and shout 'it's just a game' at them

Have you ever had to DM for people who were way smarter than you? Ever had players that would call logical flaws in a system that you didn't care about? I don't know I just wanted to make a thread.

Yeah, I once had a physics mayor on a Paranoia campaign who just wouldn't stop sperging out about lasers, plasma, colours and whatever.
Like, you could literally look him into the eyes, tell him to shut up because nobody cares and he had zero reaction, he'd just wait for a second before ranting again about this or that.
He didn't even get angry, or didn't really look like he was angry, he just needed to tell you again and again about the inaccuracies and how it'd be in real life.
Every. Fucking. Time.

>DM
Stop using d&d for sci-fi

Speaking of autism...

>Have you ever had to DM for people who were way smarter than you?
Nope, exact opposite problem actually. Poor bastard tries his best, though, and I rarely play extremely intelligent characters.
>Ever had players that would call logical flaws in a system that you didn't care about?
Now this shit I can rant about. I have a guy who is full on /k/ommando who won't shut the fuck up about fucking guns and will actually get mad if you say "clip." Can't let the guy interact with a single military unit for more than a minute before he starts talking shit. Even worse, I also game with an economist. Ever try to make real-world sense out of D&D's PHB economy? I've had a fucking scatterplot presented to me on the subject. That guy I can always shut up, however, as he has yet to show me a single peer-reviewed economic paper that accounted for inflation due to DRAGONS.

I've found that the best solution in either case is to either let them describe the occurrence or give it to them in a format where their expertise means jack diddly shit. So I would recommend that you either don't play Sci-Fi with your Math buddies, tell them to make something up for you, or just ask them if they've read Mecha-Bleezorp's thesis on the subject at hand, and hit them with a "IT JUST WERKS."

Different people enjoy different levels of realism and consistency. Some people are perfectly willing to ignore plot holes, logical inconsistencies and even asspulls (or they just plain don't notice them) but other people get pulled out of the experience and it really tanks their enjoyment.

Shouting them down with "it's just a game" doesn't help, because that's not how any of it works.

Either talk to them and try to solve the problems, try a different system, have someone else GM or get a different group.

Here's what you do: You look them square in the eyes and say "Scientifically, you are either going to shut up now, or start running your own game."

Replace "or start running your own game." with removing chair privileges for every player for ten minutes each time he does this. If he doesn't learn to shut up, the other players will learn to make him. The power of seating compels them.

We had this kind of problem with my GM, except he did care. I'm a law major and I couldn't stand the geopolitical nonsense the setting was and the way the laws worked, so I helped him flesh it out, and I wrote a lot of things for him.

>sperging out about lasers
Why? Lasers are fine. We literally use them for missile defense in real life, there's nothing to prevent them from being used as an actual weapon other than the fact that they take a buttload of energy by current standards and they could be easily countered by wearing white, reflective clothing

>they could be easily countered by wearing white, reflective clothing
Or smoke, fog, dust, etc.

Because deploying a large scale smoke screen in a warzone is a great idea.

He sperged out because they weren't depicted realistically, as in, you didn't have an instantaneous and continuous beam that'd burn anything on touch.

just like wearing bright clothing that anyone can see from literally miles away

He was right.

There's this concept called ablative armor. Also personal smoke screens. You could also have smoke that only absorbs in the spectrum that the laser works in but is transparent to your sensors.

Anyway, why bother with lasers when at those tech levels you could have grasers or and masers.

HA! Yes. We often play fantasy or modern fantasy thank god. So even if their right I can toss out the catch phrase we have "Your getting science all over my fantasy!..." and left it hanging like an insult.

It's nice because it lets them know they are correct but also shut up because you are also wrong in this situation.

Side note, my group has it the worst with a lawyer vs any legal shit or laws.

The laser is scattered on your personal smokescreen. Then a railgun slug comes through the smoke and splatters you; turns out, that was target confirmation.

>left it hanging like an insult.
Honestly, it's also an insult to you.

Literally nobody comes out winning in this situation.

>you
But I'm thousands of miles away in an undisclosed location sitting in a comfy chair directing drones in battle using quantum entanglement communications.

Perhaps your right, but I'm ok with everyone losing situations.

Explain to them that Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, and Robert Heinlein are just as guilty, if not more so, of not doing research and just making shit up.

Also tell them that Ringworld's prose is terrible and unimaginative, which hurts it's quality more than softness.

>Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who
These aren't really sci-fi as much as they are fantasy with a sci-fi skin. They also aren't that good.

Robert Heinlein writes sci-fi softer than a marshmallow and it really doesn't matter for his stories at all if you set them in another technological era.

Also Ringworld and Known Space are a better read than Heinlein anyway.

>Honestly, it's also an insult to you.
How?

>Have you ever had to DM for people who were way smarter than you?
Nope. I mostly play with people roughly on par with me (former classmates from eng school and colleagues)

Sub-orbital strike.

Two reasons:

Every time he answers a question that pokes a hole in his plot or world or points out an inconsistency with "I ain't gotta explain shit" he points either to his lack of ability as a GM or the fact that he's not taking the game as seriously as the players.

He doesn't care enough about his players to come up with something closer to their preferred game or fixing things that they consider problems, which lowers their level of enjoyment.

In the end, if the group is constantly pointing out holes in the world or the story, it means that something isn't going right and something needs to change. It may be entirely possible that the GM and the group just aren't right for each other since they want a different level of seriousness from their game.

As a personal anecdote, some of the worst games I have ever played always had a GM that took the attitude of "I ain't gotta explain shit." They always pulled shit out of their ass and it really lowered the stakes of the game. It also made the players feel like they couldn't plan for anything and anything they did never mattered.

Yes, but math/science graduates who play Veeky Forums stuff and lack the self-awareness and refinement to NOT rag on a make-believe game for being "unscientific" are probably also fans of those franchises and unironically consider them good.

If they can enjoy Star Wars or Ringworld, they can shut up and enjoy OP's game for its own merits instead of trying to show off by tearing down someone else's creative efforts.

I don't disagree with you on Niven and Heinlein. I just think Niven could benefit from a creative writing class or two.

Undisclosed location.

>"scientifically this scenario/science/action doesn't make any sense because of blah blah blah"
>"This is not the real world though"

Had an incident along these lines with a player last session. Thankfully he's not autistic about these things - it's the first time this has happened - but it threw me even more off balance than I already was from their "plan" that involved alerting an entire fort of hostiles to their presence by Enlarging a crocodile.

Mind you, this is in D&D, so not really hard to come up with excuses for things, but it was still annoying and stressed me out even more. Now, even though I had planned some cool stuff related to it, I really don't want to touch anything related to ships because I'm worried I'll say something stupid.

>they can shut up and enjoy OP's game for its own merits instead of trying to show off
See, you're assuming that they're doing it to show off, but it also might be the case that it really ruins their enjoyment of the game and they want a game more inline with their knowledge.

I'd agree with you if it was just one player, but if it's the entire group then that definitely means that something has to change on the GM side, maybe they try to come to a compromise, or get someone else to GM.

Additionally, as is often the case, it might be that the GM is really pulling shit out of his ass.

For example, in the GMs world, gravity might work differently on evil people than in the real world, and if he introduced the premise early, that might not be a problem. On the other hand, if the players formulate a plan throw the villain off a cliff, and do so, but the GM says "He floats gently down" and the players go "That's not how gravity works" and the GM answers "This isn't the real world, that's how it works here," well that's a dick move by the GM.

I know that last example is a bit strawmannish, but similar bullshit has happened to me, with exactly that explanation.

In the end, to prevent these kinds of conflicts, the cardinal rule for me is:
>If something doesn't work like our world, then I have to introduce the difference before the players come across it by themselves and unless it's explicitly stated otherwise, everything works like in real life.

After a certain point, it's not you being uneducated, it's them being socially retarded.

Or it's possible that they just enjoy science-heavy games, or they're thrown off by a perceived lack of inconsistency, and you (as a GM) are simply not a good fit for the group. That happens.

If they just won't learn and you're out of options, maybe get the smartest player to co-DM?

>If something doesn't work like our world, then I have to introduce the difference before the players come across it by themselves and unless it's explicitly stated otherwise, everything works like in real life.
This is an excellent way to sum it up.

I see your point, but I doubt it's entirely the GM's fault. I'm getting my BS in physics, and I've run into too many people who would indeed do it just to show off to assume that it's not a factor here.

meant for

Social engineering. Your intern knows where you are, and you're not paying him anywhere near enough.
How do YOU think he can afford that phone?

I once run a game with a player that always questioned how a trap worked. I honestly didn't really care to think the mechanics behind each trap, just what allocation of them would make the encounters fun. He wasn't much of a dick though.

On the flipside, I once had a GM that had no fucking idea about physics, thermodynamics or even basic fucking biology. The stupidest thing he ever said was that "having windows on spaceships doesn't makes sense, because how aren't they breaking from the air trying to get outside."

>"I know. It happens anyway. Wanna find out why?"

Really, if it mattered that much to them, they'd come up with a way it would work.

Knowledge of physics outside of your security clearance is indication of belonging to a traitorous secret society.

>I've had a fucking scatterplot presented to me on the subject. That guy I can always shut up, however, as he has yet to show me a single peer-reviewed economic paper that accounted for inflation due to DRAGONS.
You should give him a copy of this.

>Every time he answers a question that pokes a hole in his plot or world or points out an inconsistency with "I ain't gotta explain shit" he points either to his lack of ability as a GM or the fact that he's not taking the game as seriously as the players.

>"The dragon flies toward you..."
>"DRAGONS CAN'T PHYSICALLY LIFT THEMSELVES OFF THE GROUND!"
">It's magic, shut up."

Nah, you're just trying too hard to be contrary.

Wow you're really powertripping yourselves. You seriously think you're the lord of the classroom or something?

Its actually the best thing.
Ask them in pure honesty "then how would you do it in a way that doesn't break/impede the game"
And bam! You suddenly get interested players doing all the work for you

The correct term is "Class President", thank you very much.

How would you deal with a problem player then?

Tell your players your name is Todd Jobs and it just werks.

But it doesnt.

This is a plot point

In my group (Pathfinder) we came up with the Science Saving Throw. If the action that is going to take place defies too hard the laws of physics, then a saving throw is done. Failure means that the action takes place, and Success means that real science is enforced, and the action may not take place.

We dont actually take seriously that Saving Throw, its basically a joke, but you can use it as a basis for arguing with nitpicky players.

>How would you deal with a problem player then?
That user probably doesn't have a group.

Is... is this the new >Ugh?

It's now

Talking from the other side of this...

>playing some Star Wars
>invited onto a station used as a gambling house
>oh shit yeah time for my 80s action move style character to start gambling up
>making money using the VIP's tab who invited us
>time to cash in
>get laughed at because VIP's tab doesn't exist
>wut
>turns out GM didn't know anything about casinos and gambling and supposedly tabs

Yes, and you can use the "I ain't gotta explain shit, it's magic" excuse, just tell them its science fiction, not science fact.

>Tfw have economist in my game
>Tfw he is not autistic and just says "Yeah, it doesn't work, let's go kill things".

Then it's fantasy en space or fantasy in hight a technology setting but not science fiction you retard.

>On the flipside, I once had a GM that had no fucking idea about physics, thermodynamics or even basic fucking biology. The stupidest thing he ever said was that "having windows on spaceships doesn't makes sense, because how aren't they breaking from the air trying to get outside."

Did he like to build clockwork robots and decimating his men?

It is. Are you retarded or something?

I also kick out anyone who would be autistic enough to care

This.

Paranoia is the one "sci-fi" setting where you don't have to worry about this bullshit.

Hell, the rules encourage you to deliberately troll the players with bogus science, just so you can say shit like this.

>Be GM
>Have no knowledge of anything sciencey
>Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Maths, any of it
>Not even primary school level
>One of my players switched from university-level physics because it was too easy
>Another is the most computer-savvy person I've ever met
>One day they'll figure out that I'm just faking everything
>Honestly have no idea how they'll react
>Just kinda hope I'm good enough at the creative side/setting knowledge/rules knowledge that I can keep GMing

Look at them and say
>"yes"
to anything they say, if you have enough conviction, it works.

>GMing campaign set in future
>player acts like every piece of technology must be 100% completely practical and realistic or else it's the dumbest thing he's ever heard and I'm retarded for thinking of it or putting it in the setting
>player often determines how practical and realistic something is after hearing only a little bit about how it works and just assumes the rest

They already know. You simply being consistent is enough for mature people.

What a moron.

Nah, you're just being lazy

>"The dragon flies toward you..."
>"Hmm, A creature that big couldn't physically fly"
>"It's magic"
>"Okay, so if I cast some form of anti-magic spell that should ground it, possibly injuring it in the process"
>"No"
>"Why?"
>"It's magic, shut up"

Shutting down questions with "it's magic" takes away from the world and from the players enjoyment of it. It also takes away the player's ability to come up with clever plans and it breaks immersion.

A certain level of detail to show stuff works, even if it is in the end magic, is important.

>ffvii, the supposedly greatest JRPG of all time
>the dialogue is edgy self-censored garbage

>hurr

Anyone who doesn't sympathize with the DM in this situation is an autist.

I'm not using that word as an insult, I'm being serious. A large number of STEM nerds are on the spectrum, and don't understand how their nitpicking is disruptive.

>I've had a fucking scatterplot presented to me on the subject.

I...need ....this.

>saying "clip" when you mean "magazine"
You deserve it.

>The stupidest thing he ever said was that "having windows on spaceships doesn't makes sense, because how aren't they breaking from the air trying to get outside."
On that point I have an anecdote, in the 70s there was a serie of airplane crashes because of windows. Their corners were angled instead of round so the stress concentrated there and ended up ripping the plane in half.

Another anecdote, WW2 US ships were often made with a steel that became brittle arounf 0°C. It was ok as long as the fighting was around western europe or the Pacific, but after the war they were used for scientific missions on the poles and ended up breaking because of that.

It's often the most stupidest shit that makes you fail.

>uhm aheh if you don't stop questioning me, everyone has to stand up for ten minutes!! *snrk*
>c'mon guys stand up
>what?
>you haff to
>because I revoked your chair privileges
>guys please?
>thanks
>wait where are you going come back
Moron.

Talk to them like an adult mate

>"Okay, so if I cast some form of anti-magic spell that should ground it, possibly injuring it in the process"
>"No"

For the sake of argument, anything quantifiable about "some form of anti-magic spell" would depend highly on the exact system and edition, but running an old-school D&D game, the only thing I can think of is Dispel Magic which is easier or harder depending on the gap between your level and the level of the wizard that ensorceled the thing in the first place and specifically doesn't work on creatures that are inherently magical since their abilities, while magical, don't count as "spells". And that dragons are listed in the monstrous manual as having the magic ability to fly that cannot be dispelled.

>ffvii, the supposedly greatest JRPG of all time
That's FF6.

There's a reason I don't play D&D.

That's at least some form of explanation instead of just "lol, magic" and more importantly, it's information that is given before the players encounter a dragon.

Also, debunking a generic example by setting it in a particular system isn't really a counter argument. In fact, debunking an example is never an argument, regardless of how bad it is.

Sorry, I forgot to include this part:

>But in a system that isn't old-school D&D, casting Dispel Magic on a flying dragon might be a perfectly valid tactic, and strawmanning that "EBRY DEE EM WILL SAYS NO IF U ASK HIM" isn't an argument against the idea that it's OK to play fast and loose with physics when you're dealing with dragons and shit.

That was all I was going to say.

It would help if you understood the point of my argument to begin with, but it seems like it went straight over your head.

>Casting dispel magic now has a percentage chance of permanently preventing the target from using magic ever again
Oh, I'm sorry. Did you think that keeping your spells in your head granted some sort of magical shielding?
Or hell, want to pay HP to cast? Because where the fuck else is all that magic coming from?
You want to try to bother by the 'rules', we can bother by the rules. Don't blame me if you don't like where it goes.
The spell does what it says it mechanically fucking does, because that is what the fucking spell does. The dragon flies because it has a fly speed.
Ass.

Sorry, I think I replied to the wrong person. I'm just really fucking tired of magical handwaving being yelled at when the DM uses it and mysteriously ignored when it would cost the party casters.

It's the GMs responsibility to keep both of those things from happening.

I am so glad I didn't have anyone like that my game, they probably would have been pissed at all the nanomachines involved. I basically did the absolute bare minimum to describe the functions of everything even when no one was pitching a fit from it.

Only faggots prefer 7 to 4, 9 and 6.

Yep. People who sperg out on this sort of thing are a bane to play with. Yes, we know hacking in fiction doesn't happen like it does in real life. Yes, we know that laws physics are blatantly ignored in almost every work fantasy/science fiction Some people seem to place all their pride on being able to correct others and seeming "smart".

>4, 9 and 6.
Good taste

I know 6 and 9 are good, but what's good about 4? Isn't that one of the old, boring ones?

It depends on the version you play, there are variations on difficulty and other things. And maybe is a little of nostalgia but I didn't found the story boring (for a final fantasy game)

I mostly play fantasy settings so i have the luxury of going "it's magic i ain't gotta explain shit"

Have you tried staring at him, flexing and then gruffly stating "nano machines, son"?

OP kinda laid out that that idea wasn't working

I've never had this problem. Most people are, surprisingly, adults that realize that a game of pretend that abstracts reality is not always going to represent reality 100%. At most, we'll get a chuckle but brush it off because, hey, getting bogged down in the details isn't fun.

Just snipe them with ordinance moving a fraction of the speed of light and see how they like not being able to even see their own death coming. They should get the point eventually. Bending reality for the sake of playability is perfectly fine.

chrono trigger sort of holds that throne SUPER HARD last I checked.
Especially of SNES era shit.

Maybe you shouldn't run scifi games if you're too retarded to do it right?

>Autisticly sperging about established SCI-FI topoi

Thats just retarded. Everybody knows how lasguns work in a sci-fi setting. Thats just showing off le superior science skills.

This on the other hand is okay. If your world is inconsistent its okay to bitch. Sure there are some established topoi but retarded politics always annoy me. Especially if they don't even make sense if you give the setting a lot of leeway.

Why would you play with someone that can't be talked to like an adult?