So, I started from scratch and focused on improving basic shooting. Here is what I came up with
Jackson Mitchell
I figure Ill move the staves around once I uprade a specialist
Eli Johnson
what is the play style of craftworld eldar?
as im new i cant figure it out my looking at the stats, equipment and point costs etc
Ian King
You kinda run to close gun range. And murder everything with powerful death blasters. Then kite awaaaay! Also, one guy hides behind a mini tank, that goes around massacring everything.
Tyler White
>one guy hides behind a mini tank, that goes around massacring everything. seems pretty good
Joseph Wright
is the worth of guardian defenders that they get free equimpent? but at the cost of missing one mission or is it better to just do with dire avengers?
Benjamin Bennett
Even as a newbie, to me it looks like a pure gunline force. Your doods are all variants of the same general profile, with Dire Avengers being slightly better than Guardians. Your weapon options are exclusively Shuriken Pistols or Catapults, or if you're feeling creative, spending a minimum of 250 for a naked Gunner with a Scatter Laser Weapon Platform, whose costs go up astronomically fast. They have no CC options besides knives, little gear options, and you'll also have to be mindful of your Guardians, because each 3rd victory they achieve has them run off for a mission to return as Dire Avengers for the next.
Ironic how the faction who's normal style is 'everything plays a radically different role' is so samey in SWA.
Robert Wright
Pistols are used in cc too.
Robert Murphy
Only the Exarch can actually take a pistol though.
Logan Collins
well that just breaks my heart because i love having options or being versitile.
is there any kill team which operates like that? with versitility or more options?
Cooper Jackson
Which is BS really, but it just highlights how absolutely shoed in Craftworld Eldar are in SWA.
Liam Reed
Inquisition does everything. Chaos similarly has a ton of options. Nids and gray knights as well.
Austin Evans
thanks now i just need to deside between nids or inq
Henry King
Nids are all elites- near immune to pinning, great guns, great in combat, 3 wounds apiece and amazing wargear. You only get 5 though.
Inquisition let's you tailor each dude and has great opportunities for modeling as every person is someone the Inquisitor chose. And the Inquisitor themself has crazy wargear of course.
Ryder Davis
maybe i'll just get both eventually, but im leaning more on inqusition
Angel Thomas
what is the difference or point of tyranid new spawn and a tyranid warrior?
its 25 less and has 1 less WS
i guess unless you go CC the new spawn is better or what?
>im new
Isaac Stewart
New spawn are recruits, which means they can earn no skills. Once they've survived 3 missions(finishing the mission while upright) they turn In to regular warriors, get the stats,and the ability to earn skills
Zachary White
They're New Recruits. They can't advance until they've completed 3 missions.
You go 2x scything talons on the new spawn to bring its WS back up to 5 and use him as a close combat bum-rusher.
Nolan James
Nids are more vulnerable to losing units than inq is. That said, nids are one of the most elite factions in the game as of now.
Liam Edwards
thanks guys i kinda missed the whole "recruits" thing kek
Adam Jones
So as I read it, for my Necrons, all of my Warriors (including starting guys) are Recruits until a few missions in, at which point they can get Shooting skills only?
What's the benefit to taking them over Immortals? Cannon fodder that is not likely to drop because of Reanimation and free armor?
Luis Morgan
They're 30 points cheaper than immortals and are probably the best new recruits in the game except for tyranid new-spawn.
David Long
Are you sure?
The exarch looks pretty tasty in melee. 5 move base, ws 5, I6 with 2 attacks is really strong even if he's only s3.
Blake Moore
You're probably better off saving for immortals for the gun and armor, but if you need bodies warriors are okay. No real stat loss.
Bentley Foster
Sure, the Exarch can go pseudo-rambo and murder the fuck out of people on his own, but a leader does not a CC kill team make. The CWEldar list is just so tiny, there's almost no room for creativity or different approaches. Hell, it would've been nice if they at least included Storm Guardian options.
Robert Ward
Not a CC team maybe but not a "gunline" such as Tau being forced to avoid combat.
More like you want to get as close as possible and then use your leader to pounce on anyone who gets too close with his 10" charge.
Jacob Moore
So, did anyone manage to get a group going on table top sim?
Any good SW:A games on there?
Christian Peterson
Anyone have any experience with ogryns?
I was thinking about getting some but it just seems like they'd spend all their time pinned.
Liam Wright
I did, but it's me and my bros so you can't come.
Eli Collins
I'm running a prime, a warrior, and two spawn. All with 2x scytals, extended carapace, adrenals and flesh hooks.
There's a lot of weird stuff in the nid list. Rending claws aren't really worth taking. Going double scytals means toxin sacs are pointless. Flesh hooks are compulsory for melee nids. Giving anything but the gun-beast shooting weapons is a waste of time.
Nids aren't very flexible and they lack a lot of options, but if you kit them out right they're pretty lethal.
Chase Smith
>Ork charges, choppin' an' shootin' >Scout sergeant just cuffs him on the jaw >Oi, sit down you smelly green cunt
Brody Ward
So I know that you can't have more than half your fighters made up of New Recruits, but one of my opponents really wants to run a Chaos list consisting of an Aspiring Champion and then nothing but cultists. Do you guys think this would be broken or op? Personally, I think it'd be rather weak, as cultists have kinda shit weapon options and have to survive three missions before they can advance. Sure, he'd have a crazy tooled up leader, but I doubt that'd make up for the general weakness. On the other hand, I think it'd be very flavorful so I'm inclined to say go for it, but I want to know if there is something I'm missing.
Dylan Robinson
Just lurking a bit but is this skirmish style 40k again? If so, how fun are the Orks in it? What are they like?
Adrian Foster
Not great because y'know, you should be playing on multiple levels with ladders and shit.
Zachary Rodriguez
keep them in range of a flak armored team leader's aura and they can use the leader's init to beat pinning early
Angel Nelson
Yes, basically Kill Team mixed with Necromunda.
Orks get to outnumber everyone with the largest possible kill team, a whopping 20 models.
Orks rely on outnumbering the opponent, their leadership gets higher the more you outnumber the opponent. From there, you get a bonus to charging and you're the only real force that gets sustained fire for all it's weapons (most team weapons are single shot and just get better at hitting at close range) However, your accuracy is abysmal and you need that ROF to ensure hits.
Other than that, your other main issue is abysmal Initiative. This means you fall off of ledges easily and lose ties with most enemy units.
I have a Blood Axe team and while they are fun, I've realized I need more dakka, as honestly my boyz are plenty good enough to take on most basic enemy units even without CQC weapons. That said, choppas make them S4 with a -1 to the enemy save for 10pts, which means you can easily afford to upgrade your shoota boyz to have choppas as well early on.
Anthony King
As of ever. It's very difficult to imagine a team conceptually more elite than three wound assjackers
Easton Miller
Leader can shoot fine too. I've seen plenty of folks give him a death spitter and two swords
Nicholas Robinson
There's no benefit to gimping yourself like that. I'd say let the poor bastard do it if he wants.
Anthony Perry
Nids and Grey Knights also get sustained fire on everything. They're limited to five man teams though, so it's mostly to keep them relevant for volume of fire.
Honestly, Ork teams bug me. 20 dudes moving individuall, each with sustained fire, rolling shots one at a time... it just takes FOREVER
Blake King
I said only real force. Nids realistically aren't taking guns on everthing and both nids and Grey Knights are limited to 5 models a team. They've just got nowhere near the raw firepower an ork team can put out.
Robert Bell
Leader, 2x scytals, ext carapace, adrenals and flesh hooks 290pts
vs
Leader, 2x boneswords, deathspitter 420 pts
So you're saying that a model that eats 42% of your total points allocation performs as well as one that eats 29% of your points allocation?
Someone get this hothead out of here.
Landon Turner
>mfw couldn't make a full Flash Gitz force
Guess I gotta stick to Kill Team. I need to buy x3 Empire/Free Guild Engineer with Long Rifle, I want those fucking scopes to put on Transgalavic Arquebeus
Lucas Johnson
You ever heard the phrase "strength in numbers"? It's completely irrelevant to compare powerlevel one model against another. Powerlevel is only relevant if you compare a full team against another full team.
Isaac Nguyen
I'm talking about long term, not out of the gate.
Lighten up, Francis
Logan Stewart
40 shots x1/3 accuracy X1/2 wounds = 13 hits, 7 wounds on t4, 4+ turns into 3 and change. Vs 10 shots at x2/3 accuracy, x2/3 wounds = 6 hits, 4 wounds at -2 save, causing 3 and change (assuming psy ammo, reasonable against the cost of a mountain of boys)
You pin more with the boys, but the end wound count is pretty similar. There's a lot of intangibles too, but it's not as lopsided as you might think.
Except e Knights can have this for 1075 and the orks are paying 1500.
Blake Morgan
Yup. Skirmish, small, games with a solid rules system that is a lot of fun to play.
I've started playing Orks at my local league and it has been a blast. They're a bit odd, not great at shooting, mediocre at hand-to-hand unless they're charging, and yet primarily you're gonna want to be shooting. With high numbers of models with sustained fire, you can really overwhelm your opponents. Plus dem boyz is cheap so don't be afraid to sacrifice a few if it means keeping the Boss alive.
Chase Lopez
Anyone else think that Eldar Corsairs could make a very interesting kill team? A baron leading a squad of reavers, maybe with jetpack guys as specialists? I wonder if forgeworld will ever get around to doing rules for them.
Blake Cook
If we add in extra variables, bonuses help the orks pull ahead, while penalties help the Knights win. If we're assuming a running target who is in light cover, a fairly common occurrence, and we give the orks red dots we're looking at the following: 1/6 hit, 1/2 wound, 1/2 save, giving us 6.33 hits, 3.16 wounds, 1.58 unsaved
Knights, for less points, can buy dots and visors. We get the same number of hits, more wounds, and fewer saves.
But again, the easier the shot becomes, orks will pull ahead. The harder, the further they fall behind.
Oh, and the grey knight cost is wrong. Forgot to include the 150 points for the psy ammo. Still significantly cheaper.
But the costs after these new upgrades would be 1800 for orks, 1400 for Knights.
Adrian Fisher
The pile of bodies is really the key to winning. You've got three models out of 20 you care about so never give up, never surrender. You might lose the first five boys attacking that Tyranid but boy 6 has a weapon skill of 9 and 7 attacks.
Weight of numbers is hilarious and throwing more and more dice at the problem tends to make it go away
Nicholas Mitchell
That would be pretty perfect for this game. Sending in pirates to steal all the promethium and cackle as you rocket away.
Charles Jenkins
Points values are theoretically the levelling factor. You mention strength in numbers, how many more 'numbers' do you get by saving ~130 points on your leader?
Like the last guy I responded to, my opinions are what they are. Play the damn game with your own setup, I don't care.
Lincoln Ortiz
Someone woke up with a dick in his ass this morning.
>Here's an alternate opinion I've seen bandied about >(You)CRAWLING IN MY SKIN
Elijah Rogers
>how many more 'numbers' do you get Again you save across the team. Not just on one unit.
Evan Thomas
Is there anything new for the Adeptus Mechanicus or are they just forgotten from GW?
Ethan Wright
The Skitarii have a Kill Team in SWA. Does that count?
Caleb Sullivan
They were due to get their entire 30k range in Imperial Armour 14. But 8th edition seems to have fugged that. Might simply have changed the fluff to "Girlyman orders them able to use it".
Eli Edwards
Finally I am almost done with my Inquisitorial Arbites. Just need to do the final details and edging.
Dylan Jones
Looking good.
Bentley Wilson
Drill your barrels.
Caleb Torres
no u
Eli Turner
Brill your darrels. Pin your thaints.
Camden Harris
Congrats on confirming your argument has no validity. >should I refute his point with my cogent and well thought out counterpoint? >nah, I'll just call him a faggot, that's equally as valid
Matthew Scott
>save across the team >by spending more on each individual unit
You're a special kind of retarded.
Julian Reed
Do you even reading comprehension? I never said anything about spending more on one unit.
Brandon Smith
That's because he's not actually better at close combat than a regular warrior, but is better at shooting, so by not giving him a gun you're wasting the only advantage he has compared to a regular warrior.
When building a KT you obviously do not want to buy any melee weapon other than scything talons, since rending claws are trash and boneswords are far too expensive to be worthwhile. But later on when you have a spare rearm action it makes sense to give him either two boneswords or a lash whip and bonesword since the parry and -1 attack make him extremely competitive in close combat versus basically anything.
Luke Cruz
Look grea.....
>That undrilled barrel
Shit/10. KYS.
Gavin Mitchell
looks pretty sick man.
Dominic Brown
I do, they look great.
Unlike undrilled ones.
Camden Cooper
You haven't presented an argument to refute, simply flailed angrily and stomped your feet.
Justin Rivera
Page 9?
Noah Hughes
The pheasant has no agenda.
Aaron Gomez
Solid projectile weapons have drilled barrels. Plasma pistols are getting a glow effect.
Isaiah Phillips
I'll reserve judgement until I see it but I usually prefer drilled barrels on plasma too.
Adrian Kelly
I'm assuming we will see a shadow wars: xxx expansion down the line, no? Have it take place somewhere else awful.
Maybe Catachan? Every random event will be the planet eating your dudes.
Jack Rogers
I'm New to warhammer, but I got a decent deal on some catachan warriors. As a campaign starting list, how do you think this is?
Joshua Lee
Maybe someone will read your list if you don't post it as a PDF.
Jonathan Hill
It's nice to dream. Maybe some more Kill Team lists for the factions that were ignored (Chaos Demons mostly, though a power armored Space Marine KT would be cool too). Also Sub-Faction Skill Trees might be nice.
I hope Shadow War will get more support. Unfortunately, I can't shake the feeling that GW is just going to forget about it once 8th Ed rolls out.
Hudson Myers
What times/zones do you play? Thinking of trying it out but no one at my store plays.
Jaxon James
So who's building trashy home scenery for this? I wanna see pictures of peoples tables.
Jace Long
thankfully i wont have to but the poorhammer is real, im trying to scrap up an inqusition team
John James
Alright fags, I'm making a cringey short-lived group on the steam forums to connect the lonely people who will use these games to bring back epic characters against their cats in Tabletop Simulator.
I have bets on this failing within a month. Enjoy!
John Carter
How do the Tau kill teams for this game hold up?
Connor Sullivan
Tau player since 3rd here. It's not very good and clearly phoned in. The description for the ion rifle mentions an overcharge mode that doesn't exist. The rail rifle has the same description. Both (yes, two) special weapons are kinda underwhelming for the points. The baseline weapon rocks an 18" range that you can pay points to extend by 6". Markerlights drop cover bonuses only. We cap at BS 4 so we're outranged, outshot, and outgunned by basically everyone. Drones don't have hover drone, they have to climb ladders. I2 does us zero favors, and our special overwatch abilities still happen at BS 2.
Upside is recon drones are hot shit. Use markers to strip cover and roll for fives (because drones are BS2). It can work, but I'm not going to put in the effort if GW clearly won't.
Jaxon Jones
My argument is that it's a good idea to leave shooting to gun-beasts and have everything else as pure melee. This is on the basis that giving any other Nids a shooting weapon makes them less lethal in melee, while still not especially good at shooting.
The sole attempt at refuting this was the double sword/spitter combo, which while fairly effective, is also almost 50% more expensive, even without flesh hooks and adrenals. So you'd expect a sword/spit combo to be effective for that cost, wouldn't you?
Nathan Foster
My friends and I don't have a LGS, but I do have a decent sized table and (while not Hive-style terrain), a decent multi-level set of terrain that can be configured for all sorts of different fights.
Tyler Lopez
I'm still working on my table. I have to go shopping for more PVC couplers, and I need to sit down and figure out where I need more stuff.
Jayden Parker
Here's my first attempt at a list for my Kriegers.
-V. Sarge, Camo, Carapace, Power Sword, Laspistol
- V. Guard, Camo, Carapace, Shotgun - V. Guard, Camo, Carapace, Shotgun
- V. Guard, Camo, Lasgun - V. Guard, Camo, Lasgun - V. Guard, Camo, Lasgun - V. Guard, Camo, Lasgun
The idea is for the V. Sargeant and the Shotgun vets to provide charge/counter charge, the lasguns to fire support and the specialist to dump hot plasma up butts.
Nothing too exciting, I'm sure, but I'm curious if anyone has thoughts.
Anyone had luck with trying Grenade Launchers btw? Seem like they might be okayish in this gamemode.
Parker Morales
Grenade Launchers are OK. The only issue is that normal plasma guns are criminally underpriced. They should be as expensive as Grenade Launchers to make sense given their awesomeness..
Gabriel Gomez
I'd honestly go two less Veterans for another plasma gunner. Also probably change shotgun dudes to New Recruits, they'll be expendable.
Thomas Adams
This seems to be the general consensus. A bit of a bummer that guard lists seem to rely so heavily on plasma.
Nicholas Powell
Grenade launchers can be really good too, I had one shoot across the board on turn one, pinning two marines and two cultists.
Isaac Jackson
Tau have some complaints but your BS isn't one of them. Your whole team ignores the CONSTANT cover bonus that everyone has to deal with, giving you a 4+ even when other teams are aiming for a 5+. You get to overwatch for free with multiple models when other teams have to give up their whole turn for it.
Tau have problems, like a lack of options for models, but their shooting stat is fine.
Caleb Gray
There we go!
I, personally, kitted my alpha with three swords and a lash by the end of the campaign. It's expensive but you'll be choking on points in a long campaign. Starting out with two talons is the most efficient by far.
The argument against is that you have BS 4 on the leader, making guns effective, and he's a dead Killy bastard in his own right, so aiming for gun and blades isn't a bad route to go. Every turn he's advancing he cold also be shooting, giving him a higher output Than if he's got double melee. It's not bad advice, even if the melee build is also strong. You won't be struggling for points forever.
Aaron Rogers
As a Tyranid player, grenade launchers scare me more than plasma. Eating krak is a death sentence.
Orks also hate them. Large blasts make swarms cry. You'll pin whole piles of I2 boys and laugh.
Plasma is more efficient against most other lists. It's really a meta call. If you have a Tyranid player chewing folks up it's a solid answer. Otherwise it's probably not the way to go.
Elijah Wilson
Tau can sorta counter stuff like being Wych charged. Oddly though, then they'll fail hard at shoot-outs against stuff like Inquisition, Admech or even Guard.
They really need those drones for more bodies and weapons.