“Look, there’s no such thing as a Chaos conspiracy. It’s all bunk. It’s them nobles you have to watch for. See, they spew all this propaganda about vigilance in the face of adversity, being courageous and turning over suspected cultists, but the truth is, they want to keep us down, keep us under their boot heels. Just look at the workers in Nuln. They should be an example to us all. One day, and one day soon, we workers, we’ll unite. We’ll throw off the chains of oppression and take our lives back. Each man to his abilities. And when we wipe out the nobles, making them wipe our arses, we can take the fight to Bretonnia and free those poor bastards from the decadent elite.”
“Look, there’s no such thing as a Chaos conspiracy. It’s all bunk. It’s them nobles you have to watch for. See...
Joshua Lewis
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Jason Hall
>there’s no such thing as a Chaos conspiracy
Said every chaos cultist ever.
Oliver Roberts
>medieval peasantry having any concept of class wars
Adam Reed
Class consciousness can occur in any age, user
Soon The Glorious Revolution of the People shall take the fight to the Counts and free the Empire from tyranny!
Grayson Ross
Well, there was Thomas Müntzer and those peasant revolts. Although to say that they were socialists is historic revisionism by the DDR
Julian Davis
Class consciousness was necesary indeed. You better knew your fucking place.
But class wars as the struggle for the means of production? At best riots because there are witches poisoning the milk and you fucking knights are sitting on your arses instead of doing a good ol fashioned pyre
Jayden Carter
It'd be best to spread the idea of class equality among all social classes. The main issue with peasant revolts was pitchforks weren't good against knights.
Now, a peasant revolution lead by a skilled tactician, or even with the aid of military forces, would stand a much better chance at overthrowing the nobility.
And even without me armchair-generalizing, I don't think medieval democracies are represented at all in fantasy. I'd certainly find it interesting! Like the Ikko-Ikki, but without being massacred by Oda.
Dylan Robinson
The Marxist interpretation of class only works if there is a wealthy ownership class who own the means of production, in fact Marx goes into some detail describing how the modern bourgeois usurped the traditional aristocracy.
So is there anyway to shoehorn Marxism into a fantasy setting that isn't industrialized?
Adam Ortiz
Commie, you know literally nothing about history, so I advise you to stop making a fool out of yourself.
Jaxson Brooks
>Look there's no such thing as Chaos-
HERESY
Dylan Reyes
In preindustrial society agriculture, the means of production is literally land. The nobility own the land and lease its use to serfs.
It's pretty 1:1.
Robert Evans
>MEANWHILE IN BRETONNIA
The king is dead
Long live the king!
Owen Russell
but what happens to the vassals, guild-masters, journeymen or apprentices
all those subtle graduations in class that are rearranged under free market capitalism
Gabriel Anderson
Not even God could stop me from being a buffoon on the internet.
A medieval democracy would probably have to work on a smaller scale, probably some kind of city state would be most workable. After all, it's difficult to count votes even now, doing so with isolated villages and hamlets would be another magnitude of difficulty. A more centralized, could remedy these problems, at least in part.
To spread literacy, something that empowers the proletariat, would probably require the aid of monks, which probably doesn't gel well with most divine right backing church structures. A "heresy" like the Cathars would probably be most compatible, what with it's egalitarian view of spirituality.
Ah magically enforced feudalism. Can't a worthy farmer get a sip? It's a shame that gunpowder doesn't work as well on magic knights, otherwise that'd probably help a lot.
Cooper Sullivan
City people play in another league.
Thomas Bailey
>Can't you see the violence inherent in the system?
>Help! help! I'm being repressed!
Jordan Rodriguez
crossbows are easier to manufacture than guns, and about just as effective in that time period.
Jose James
Mason Bell
A revolution against class inequality is only a reset button, not a solution. The merchant nobility will only have to start out anew and then a couple thousand years later, they will have special privileges thanks to their money. Like avoiding the law and tax evasion.
Basically the modern world.
Henry Perry
but you are wrong, one of the biggest reasons matchlocks spread so fast were Because they are simpler quicker and cheaper to make compared to crossbows
Eli Johnson
Not exactly fair to judge a movement on what could happen 100 times beyond a human lifespan
Kayden Hall
So what you're saying is we need to eliminate capitalist society and should move toward a post-scarcity/post-currency society?
Colton Thompson
Death to the False Empor- oh wait, am I on the wrong planet here?
Adrian Clark
>Nu metal trash
An hero immediately.
Blake Diaz
I'm not judging anyone, I'm just saying they are wrong.
No because even that would be a reset button and move more towards truer monarchy than a the current system. They would simply move towards a favors based economy instead of a material one. With the big guys with more friends on top, shitting on the "lower class citizen".
Adrian Ross
The trouble with a post-scarcity society is that it is impossible. Like, literally impossible: people keep giving birth until there is scarcity again, and if you restrict birth then there is a scarcity of birthing rights. Simple mathematics means that there will Always be resources people compete for, and there with Always be losers in that competition. "The poor will be with you always."
Landon Phillips
>being so stuck up your own music tastes you believe anyone really cares about you acting like a snob
Jaxson Gomez
Also making everyone poor wont even solve anything since somebody needs to make sure they are all poor, so either that person or that persons poor level checker will obviously amass power and wealth to themselves.
Levi Rivera
>Durr nu metal is HARD bro
>Fuck off snob
Listen to music more often instead of jekr off to anime and then maybe I'll respect your opinion. I remember liking disturbed back in the 5th grade then moved away into far better music.
Aaron Foster
KEK you sure showed that guy your "superior" and "mature" taste in music. Please enlight was some more, Beethoven. Show us the path to appreciate true patrician music. I assure you, we all care about your personal opinions.
Lucas Ross
Don't worry about it, he's obviously fishing for reactions.
Jonathan Gray
Well if you want to listen to metal that's isn't garbage may I suggest
Or anything else ffs?
Adrian Cruz
You think that black metal shit is not garbage? Most people who like that shit only like it because it's considered "underground" and they want to look edgy. It's not objectively better than any other style of music in existence. People just have different preferences, deal with it.
Tyler Williams
That doesn't mean post-scarcity society is impossible, just that it can't be sustained indefinitely.
Lincoln Smith
Perhaps now it is more important than ever to prepare for self-sustaining colonies on Earth-like planets.
Liam Cruz
>People.kust like black metal because it's "underground"
Maybe back in the 90's , but what was underground then are insanely mainstream these days. Mayhem and Bathory are pretty tame desu. Nu-Metal just sucks , I used to like it but after listening to other metal after awhile nu-metal just becomes kind of a parody of metal or is basically just alterna metal. Nu metal especially tries too hard to be edgy whereas black metal, at least sometimes, tries to be more than just an edgy aesthetic fit for radio consumption. The lyrics of nu metal don't compare neither do the scenes or music itself.
Sorry pham, nu metal is normie tier.
David Rogers
All metal is normie-tier at this point.
Wyatt Martin
>Maybe back in the 90's , but what was underground then are insanely mainstream these days.
Yes, but kids and preteens will still think it's rad as fuck.
>Nu metal especially tries too hard to be edgy
True, but that's the point, it's meant to appeal to a younger audience, the group most likely to spend money on their merchandise(t-shirts, cds, posters, etc).
>Sorry pham, nu metal is normie tier.
At this point, all music genres are normie tier, because of how easy it is to get access to them nowadays. You don't need to go to an underground shop to get to know about an obscure band today, you can just listen to it on youtube. There is no "underground" music anymore.
Daniel Taylor
Good points , "underground" is kind of hard to find when anything can just blow up over the internet. Still, nu metal was just kind of a 2000's thing that died pretty hard and hasn't aged too well desu
Jackson Richardson
It's not that it hasn't aged too well, you just got older. It's suppose to appeal to teens because that's where the money is. That's true to ALL metal genres, by the way.
Jack Martin
>
>en.m.wikipedia.org
>Revolt implied class consciousness
Angel Russell
Yeah pretty much , people were aware of class. Wtf are you on about?
Landon Cook
They're an autonomous collective
Landon Taylor
*Anarcho syndicalist commune
Ethan Bell
A communist revolution in Warhammer Fantasy might be a interesting idea, but going "Chaos is a tool of the ruling class to oppose us lower folk!" is pretty much a sure fire way to have chaos subvert you into a cult and then have said ruling class kill you for being a danger to the people you're trying to save.
Brayden Cooper
"Shouldn't I have the right to worship whatever gods I choose, comrade?"
>But Karl, you've grown an extra head
"AND HE AGREES WITH ME! Majority rules!"
Carter King
Yeah, it's a setting where it's okay to be an ignorant, paranoid, close-minded fuckwit, because the "degenerate culture" that fascists harp on about is a real and present danger.
Once, this was seen as proof of the grimdarkness of Warhammer: that curiosity, love and critical thinking aren't just useless in these worlds, but actively dangerous. Then the games started attracting actual fascists, who identified with the fucked-up setting and felt it reflected reality.
And now here we are with the Imperium being painted as a heroic force rising to face the threats that assail it, instead of imploding like the monstrous, dysfunctional mess it was always meant to be.
Owen Gonzalez
At least in Fantasy the Empire was ultimately making technological progress without the fear that any new inventions would actual be chaos-tainted for some reason.
Can you imagine the Old World after an industrial revolution?
Nicholas Mitchell
This is the kind of humour that Warhammer is missing today (Well, Regimental Standart is still good.)
Michael Ramirez
>Karl, the Revolutionary Tribunal has found you not guilty on all charges. You are free to go.
>However, Hanz has been found guilty of sedition, the sentence is execution by guillotine
>It's a stroke of luck that you aren't connected at the neck!