/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Actually, the Weaver, but the Patriarch is Wyrm-tainted.

How'd you incorporate the God-Machine in other splats? Like Vampire?

IIRC, the Ordo Dracul stumbles upon Infrastructure and thinks it's a Wyrm's Nest in of the books.

Read Holy Engineers in Danse Macabre book for 1ed. You will need to work details that changed during transition from nwod to cofd but it's there

...

I needed that laugh.

There are some new videos on the WW channel where you can see the writers for the preludes talk about "muh diversity"

foolish feminist. By turning that member of the patriarchy into a frog you've given him unlimited power

Isn't the Weaver female?

Someone inform me on Changeling the dreaming

will the Anurana be adopted by the Incarna representing Kek?

No, none of the Triat members have genders in any conventional sense. A lot of Garou speak of the Weaver as though it was female, but it's not any more literally true than the Black Furies considering the Weaver (or Namer, as they prefer) male.

>Not naming that image M20. user plz.

Depends on the person. I think Changeling the Dreaming can be a good way to ease someone used to playing D&D, Pathfinder, and the like into the setting. Hunters Hunted, Hunter the Reckoning, and Hunter the Vigil are good suggestions as well.

Personally, one of the things I'd like to see given a small bit of detail - a paragraph or two, or a small list - is the other Exarch cults and lesser Ministries out there. Something Dave mentioned on the OPP forums is that Mammon has another lesser Ministry which seeks to control the world by controlling access to technology such that it creates a massive wealth and power disparity.

I'd like to see that for other Exarchs; other interpretations of their themes and schemes. The Father is the Exarch of Prime, which means his dominion is over the very concept of truth, and that, to my mind, makes him also the Exarch of accepted and conventional wisdom.

I'd like to see a bit about the Father being the Exarch of things like the "scientific" racism/sexism movements of the 30s (which carried on before and after, but they really hit their peak there), or the General (or the Raptor) worshiped by those who see it as the incarnation of a universe that is cold and at times outright hateful towards humanity; unleashing natural disasters that ruin communities and deprive people of resources and opportunities.

It'd be nice to see other interpretations.

I agree, although if any organization is likely to want to define all of its members into neat little slots, it's the Seers. And that's a really interesting take on the Father especially.

>werewolf
>fights against evil industrialist who strives only for power and employs forces beyond his understanding to accomplish his goals
>the final battle is against the force he has been relying on which has gone mad from being tampered and toyed with
>by defeating it and saving the world you restore balance to the earth and cosmos
>tfw fucking Sonic Unleashed was secretly the first Werewolf the Apocalypse vidya all along

I'd prefer Pantechnicon as Ruin or Prophet, personally. Technology only giving opportunities to a chosen few or the parade of tech cults of personality.

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Okay, so in the vampire game I'm playing right now, there's a Hunter who knows the name and address of one player and the name of another. Everyone seems to be convinced that the Hunter will help us fight another vampire (we met her when we were trying to burn the vampire's house down, only to discover she was already doing that) but this still seems like there's no way it can end well.

Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? How can I convince the other players this is a bit stupid?

Just embrace the hunter

Anyone in your group know presence or dominate? Because thats how you nip the problem in the bud.Mind fuck it into submission then kill it when its outlived it usefulness

That's how you might get a future VII member.

Did you know that Iran is not a patriarchy?
Only 3.5% of convicted criminals are female in Iran.

nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Iran/Crime/Prisoners

That seems too easy.
Nope. Least, not as far as I know.

Why not just ghoul the hunter?

You do realize sexism and other biases are capable of harming people other than the ones they're actually oriented against, right? For example, when gay people weren't allowed in the military cuz of homophobia, straight people made up the vast majority of combat deaths.

Time to kiss the ass of the nearest ventrue then

Shit, I just realized I might have a use for that stupid blood jar ritual I learned as a joke. Thanks!

Any good ideas for ministry names? Or do Exarchs have to have a certain level of power before they get one?

Sexism isn't oriented against any specific group though. It has no purpose but arises organically. It may disproportionately harm certain groups but that has to be calculated honestly and fairly.

Something doesn't need to have a "purpose" to be oriented against a specific group. See: homophobia. There's no actual purpose to having a societal bias against gay people but there you go. The fact that the bias hurts people outside the group that society is biased against doesn't mean society is biased against people outside that group.

The exarchs don't require power to become archgenitors of greater ministries. Whatever jockeying happens between exarch, if it happens at all, as ministries rise and fall is unknowable.

The best explanation for why greater ministries are in their position is that the exarch they serve can be bothered to give token interest in whatever they're up to.

Names for the 5 lesser ministries are up to you. I think DaveB created one for one of his actual plays.

youtube.com/watch?v=05BwRQQhbkI&t=0s

This is nu-WW

>The Triad
>Having gender

Hell, even the Furies will tell you that no even Pegasus has a gender.

I think the exception are things like Minotaur, spirit of manliness, or the Gorgons, spirits of femininity that are explicitly of that gender and represent what people think about it.

I like Hunter, it helps putting the people in the perspective of someone living in that shitty world before knowing why thing are like that.
>Welp life is shit
>No son, is actually worse than it should be, let me shown you WHY
>Oh shit, this soulless monsters are pulling the strings from the shadows, fuck them, fuck them all to hell~!

How does a diversity of labels provide any diversity of ideas and content when these people all bandwagon and function as a religion and dehumanize anyone who commits 'blasphemy' against them?

>user learns how all political worldviews work, is frustrated that they don't get to be part of the orthodoxy

I've never wanted to be part of the orthodoxy, the idea of considering anything blasphemy disgusts me. Why would I want to be scum like that? Unlike them I don't even want to take away their rights for it either.

>You do realize sexism and other biases are capable of harming people other than the ones they're actually oriented against, right?

Some say it's even possible to be sexist against men!

Playing Bloodlines for the first time and Hotel level is some creepy shit holy fuck

Of course it is.
People that claim otherwise are idiots.

>the idea of considering anything blasphemy disgusts me
>user has no actual political beliefs, ethos, or insight, only pure emotional reaction
>Is still frustrated that they can't be part of the orthodoxy of the political system of the game they like

You're in for a wild ride.

Fuck mate. If other vamp told me go check out that haunted hotel I would probably go face the sun. Fuck this noise

I'm not even that guy, but are you just projecting that "wants to be part of the orthodoxy" thing?

Any body got the new beast supplement?

Less that and more "no shit there's a perceived orthodoxy and a blasphemy in any solidified political system that seeks power, the only real discomfort comes from the realisation that to them you are in the latter and not the former."

That user would probably prefer that their orthodoxy replace the orthodoxy they feel alienated from, that's all. Nothing bad or shameful about that, it's just something to be more honest about these days.

Which one? Conquering Heroes?

Thanks! And, yeah, the Seers are basically oppressive hierarchy incarnate. They named their whole religious structure the Iron Pyramid. Literally a pyramid scheme.

That's reasonable. The Prophet as the avatar of Great Man History is honestly one of my favourite things, especially since Mage is, itself, an RPG and therefore has protagonists who ostensibly ARE the aforementioned Great People.

Incidentally, it suddenly occurs to me that the Silver Ladder's messiah complex actually plays into this and I love that.

"Ministry" is just a general term for an allied network of Exarch slave cults that all see a given Exarch the same way. If more than one pylon worship the General as the incarnation of natural disasters, they know about one another, and have a unified power structure? Bam. Ministry.

There's a ton of Ministries out there, not just one for each Exarch.

All sexism affects everyone. It doesn't harm people equally, but any sexist argument that says "Women shouldn't be in the military, that's for men!" simultaneously cuts off women from military service and all the career and political opportunities therein, but it also forces men into a role where they have to be tough and strong and brave. Not everyone is those things.

Sexism, racism... These things are all attempts to force people into boxes. Even if you're in the "better" box (and some boxes really are better to be in than others for the majority of people), it'd be better for you and everyone to avoid that shit.

lol no, no one should follow my beliefs, it would be a horrific world if they did. That is part of why other people pushing theirs as some sort of hyper correct solution is so disgusting. I literally want no part in any of it.

I'm sort of talking in that guys stead here but:
But aren't you assuming he wants power or he wants HIS orthodoxy instituted?

Because your argument seems just pointing out that everything is, to simplify, 'stop liking what I don't like'.

It's a shame that I haven't so far met anyone else who shares my primary interest in Mage, i.e. casting the Exarchs down from their thrones.

I just realized that thing is trans

...That would be a Bad Idea. The Exarchs are pillars of reality; casting them out would cause harm to reality on the level the Exarchs caused when they sundered the Silver Ladder

Well, you have my curiosity. How would you go about casting down the Exarchs?

In my head canon the Exarchs casting down and killing the old gods created the Abyss. So, in my head canon that would expand the Abyss even further.

Read Imperial Mysteries to get a clue of just how bizarre a world sans Exarchs would be.

I personally think the Seers choose to cast the Exarchs in a light that favors their agenda rather than telling us the truth about them.

The Exarchs & Oracles ARE the Arcana Themselves as we understand them, and the Ministers are playing their servants for fools in service to their own incomprehensible agendas.

Building a legend. It went out to backers this week

I tried to run Mage for my group but they weren't that into it.
Also they let a cannibal alternative spirit get a big book of the Prince, so I kinda ruled that they'd failed and ended the game.

Maybe I'll get in a game some day!

The Exarchs and Oracles are not the Arcana, but they're definitely important Supernal symbols. Specifically, they're human symbols and symbols of control. Wipe them out from the universe and... Well... Who knows what'll happen? Won't be good for humanity, though, unless you come up with a hell of a replacement.

There are no thrones the exarchs are fundamental aspects of reality. Casting them out would mean destroying and rebuilding the universe ex nihilo.

Can you imagine someone of that power? 10 dots in all arcana before ascension?

The Exarchs represent universal concepts as well, I believe. Not just human tyranny.

Gonna probably run Fallen is Babylon for a mortal group soon, expanding it a bit so it lasts about 3 sessions. I'm not even going to try converting the 1e demons to 2e, maybe refluff them a bit but remaking the demon characters as DtD characters seems like far too much of a clusterfuck.

Am I making a mistake? Anyone else run it and have some advice?

>Fallen is Babylon
Those 1e demons literally aren't DtD demons, they follow a different cosmology and likely still exist even in CofD. They are demons of vice, utterly unconnected to the god machine. Converting them would likely ruin the story.

Has anyone actually run a campaign with the Seers instead of the Pentacle?

I ran a Banisher campaign once, got crazy when the players started "growing out of it" and deciding not all Magic is evil, but that Mage society is utter shit and needs to be torn down.

redpill me on Kiasyds
also are there Illithids in CoD/WoD or are the cool tentalce doods DnD exclusive

Presumably, the goal of the campaign is to figure it out. Personally, though, I've never liked the "Exarchs are pillars of reality" interpretation much, since it seems to make everything feel much more futile.

Yeah, don't even refluff them. CofD has multiple types of Demons, from the Goetic to the denizens of the Inferno to the Unchained of Descent. I can't remember which non-Unchained Demons are in Fallen is Babylon, but run them as is either way.

Koro Sensei (Assassination Classroom)

Virtue: Compassionate
Vice: Petty
Aspirations: Bring Out The Best In Others, Foil Attempts At Assassinating Him

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 8, Wits 9, Resolve 8
Physical Attributes: Strength 7, Dexterity 10, Stamina 7
Social Attributes: Presence 6, Manipulation 5, Composure 4

Skills: Academics (Strategy) 5, Computer 4, Crafts 5, Investigation (Assassination) 6, Medicine 4, Occult 3, Politics 2, Science 5, Athletics 8, Brawl 3, Firearms 3, Larceny 4, Survival 3, Weaponry 3, Empathy (Individual Needs) 6, Expression (Teaching) 4, Intimidation (Sudden Seriousness) 4, Persuasion (Bringing Out The Best In Others) 5, Socialize 3, Subterfuge 1

Merits: Area Of Expertise (Assassination, Bringing Out The Best In Others), Common Sense, Danger Sense (Advanced), Encyclopedic Knowledge (Academics, Investigation, Science), Fast Reflexes 3 (Advanced), Indomitable (Epic), Interdisciplinary Specialty (Assassination, Bringing Out The Best In Others), Professional Training 5 (Assassination Teacher: Investigation, Empathy, Expression), Trained Observer 3 (Advanced), Ambidextrous, Double Jointed (Advanced), Iron Stamina 3, Sleight Of Hand, Inspiring (Epic), Iron Will, Pusher, Sympathetic, Table Turner, Untouchable, Untouchable Style 4, Close Quarters Combat 1, Defensive Combat (Brawl), Unarmed Defense 5

Willpower: 22
Defense: 27
Initiative: 17
Speed: Special (See Absurd Agility)
Health: 14 (Size 7)
Potency: 10

[continued in next post]

Dread Powers: Absurd Agility*, Influence 3 (Assassination), Know Soul, Mimir’s Wisdom*, Numen (Blast, Omen Trance, Stutter Step*), Reality Stutter, Shifting*, Surprise Entrance, Unnatural Healing*

*Absurd Agility: Koro Sensei adds his Potency to Perception rolls and his Defense. His Defense is applied against ranged attacks, and his Dodging rolls receive the Rote Quality. His Speed is considered to be enough to win any Chase against mundane opponents. He can fly up to his full Speed. In the case of supernatural opponents with powers that significantly enhance their Speed, roll a Clash Of Wills against Koro Sensei’s Dexterity + Potency. Furthermore, Koro Sensei may spend 1 Willpower point to reduce the time taken by most Mental and Physical Extended Actions into 1 turn per roll. Spending 3 Willpower points makes each roll reflexive, allowing Koro Sensei to multitask to extreme levels.

*Mimir’s Wisdom: As per the Atavism (Beast: The Primordial,page 127). Koro Sensei is considered to always be at Low Satiety, and can mimic the Satiety Expenditure effect by spending 2 Willpower points.

*Stutter Step: The being's movements accelerate into the flicker-stop of a defective movie reel. They may reflexively spend 1 Essence to perform a Dodge without giving up their action. Koro Sensei can use this Numen for free.

*Shifting: As per Idigam version (Werewolf: The Forsaken 2ED, page 222). This Dread Power can be used to mimic his miscellaneous powers like Molting and Absolute Defense.

*Unnatural Healing: Koro Sensei can only receive aggravated damage from weapons specifically designed to be his Bane (any other potential source of aggravated damage is downgraded into lethal). He also heals all lethal and bashing damage reflexively each turn.

You'd have to find actual backers of Beast here to get a link.
You're more likely to find those on Rpg.net than here.

That sounds super cool! Could you give us some stories from it?

Also, has anyone got any advice for a cool "first monster" for a Hunter group? I was thinking a werewolf, but they might be better as a pack, which I'd want to leave until the hunters are more experienced. Maybe some kind of demon?

Building a Legend hasn't gone out to backers yet
Source: Backed the book because I liked the initial draft before they fucked it to death in the half assed rewrite.

This is pretty cool.

The Exarchs are the symbols of control/tyranny, but they're human symbols of such. That's one of the important things about the Exarchs and why removing them without replacing them would be a terrible idea: Yes, they're horrifying cosmic masters, who, if they had their way, would force the world to bow and submit to eternal slavery, but they're human in focus, which is why humans are apparently masters of all they survey.

Mage is, very subtly, exceptionally anthropocentric. The Exarchs might very well be why the universe is that way.

Kind of. I ran a solo thing for someone, with them as a Sleepwalker in service to the Seers. It was interesting.

It's not futile. It just requires more consideration. That's one of the things about taking down the gods: Everyone thinks about how great it'll be to tear everything down. Less so what comes after.

But still, it's sort of a burden on the ST to say that the campaign is about finding out. Do you have any preferred avenues? Anything that you would want to use?

And I mean anything. I like hearing people's interests. Do you wanna turn religion into a weapon against them, creating a new Supernal god to take their place on the throne (with you as its prophet)? Do you wanna Awaken the entire world and turn it against them? Do you want to dissolve the world and their sympathy to it so that the world can begin anew?

Hell, I'll take "Opening a rift to the Supernal and fighting the Exarchs with giant mecha". I just love seeing people's interests.

When you say first, do you mean very first, or the first "big" one?

>Here we have one of elusive Beast-backers in his natural environment. His species is known for poor decision making and crushing guilt.

>I liked the intital draft

Well, I suppose it had to make its KS goal somehow.

Hunter-user here! I mean "very first"!

Alrighty! You said you want these Hunters to face down a werewolf eventually, yeah? As in Uratha type?

If so, why not start them off with a spirit? Something weak but still dangerous to cut their teeth on and let them get a feeling for how big the world is.

Maybe some weak little Rank 1 spirit (or Rank 2 if you really want to put 'em in danger) has escaped into the material world and is urging or possessing some poor bastard and making them do awful things? This could range from murdering local pets (a weak predatory spirit) to burning down houses (fire spirit) to trying to injure people so that they have to go to hospital (healing spirit).

It might not even be apparent something supernatural is involved until the players actually apprehend the guilty party and a fire demon erupts from their mouth. Or there could be a series of identical arsons or murders despite the apparent perpetrator being arrested after every single one.

All this could lead to them learning about spirits and their shenanigans, essentially playing supernatural border patrol, up until they start messing about in the territory of werewolves.

Sound good?

Damn man, that sounds really solid! I'm gonna work with that!

Enjoy! If you're looking for books to refer to, Spirit Slayers covers Hunter groups and Tactics related to spirits and werewolves. The Book of Spirits is also pretty good, but I really recommend the Predators book from Werewolf for a pile of example spirits (even if their relative power levels are keyed more for fighting a werewolf pack). They need some updating, but that's mostly just Manifestations and Numina tweaks. More valuable by far, though, is how Predators goes into how spirits think and tend to act.

So yeah. Best of luck. If you have any more questions, I'll keep an eye on the thread.

>But still, it's sort of a burden on the ST to say that the campaign is about finding out. Do you have any preferred avenues? Anything that you would want to use?
Not as such. I find the Exarchs as written to be really irritatingly abstract, which I admit dampens my interest in the game as a whole. I like having more personalized enemies, a lot of the time.

Then your enemies should probably be an individual Seer pylon, rather than the Exarchs as a whole. The Exarchs are abstract, because they're a concept as much as a group of entities.

The General isn't just some deity sitting on a throne, urging a police officer to beat a protestor's skull in; it is the very act of the officer beating that protestor's skull in. Fighting that means fighting against the very concept of using violence to achieve control.

To be honest, I've actually been most interested in the Exarchs as a concept with my idea of porting them to Masquerade and using them as the Aeons, the divine enemies of the Followers of Set, if you're familiar with the Setite clanbook.

I am not. Masquerade was never really my game, sorry.

I wish I'd kept a log.

Basically it started out kind of Call of Cthluhu-esque until they kidnapped and interrogated a mage and found out that they might be (gasp) wrong about this whole thing.

So they went undercover in a different city, and decided that mage society, frankly, blows.

They made enough friends to not see mages themselves as the enemy, but rather the society that compels them to be total cunts above and beyond what human nature would demand.

And they're going to tear it down so Mages can truly be free to be who they're supposed to be.

>Mage is, very subtly, exceptionally anthropocentric.

If a sperg like me gets a Humanocentric takeaway from the NWoD, then they're not being nearly subtle enough about it. Every splat is related to humanity in some defining way.