Ok, Veeky Forums, Rank 'Em

Gothic, Arcanum, Daggerfall etc.

Also, being on a timer != railroad.
Railroad is all about being brought through mandatory "checkpoints" of the story. In Fallout there were very little of those.

----> /v/

I'll give you Daggerfall. Holy shit starting out was such a beating but it got pretty good after a while. That might be the only rpg I've never played twice.

Gothic and Arcanum were 2001, not 90s.

guarantee less than 2 responses in /v/

BG2 > PS:T?
Seriously?

Planescape: Torment is extremely well-written and a unique experience in many ways, but the fact remains that there's not really much of a "game" in it, and the fucking walls of text are a real slog to go through.

Baldur's Gate 2 makes for a much better game.

And Baldur's Gate was 1998.
Three years are not a lot, user.

>PST
>IWD
>BG
>BG
>IWD2

just to prove my point.

??? That is a while as far as what types of games are being published and the technology available.

I'm mostly with this guy, although I think I'd put PS: Torment at #1.

>Baldur's Gate
Shit
>Baldur's Gate 2
Shit
>Fallout
Shit game, fun scenarios. Worth playing even as you cringe through the horrible gameplay
>Fallout 2
Most stream lined game play, and that says alot cause it's still shit. fun scenarios Worth playing even as you cringe through the horrible gameplay
>>Icewind Dale
Shit
>Icewind Dale II
Shit
>Planescape: Torment
Shit game, great story. Worth playing even as you cringe through the horrible gameplay

Eh, maybe.
I'm one of those people who plays games at least 5 years later since their release, so I don't really think it's really that long of a time period.

Planescape: Torment / Baldur's Gate 2 > Fallout 2 > Fallout > Baldur's Gate > Icewind Dale/Icewind Dale 2

PST>BG2>BG>haven't played the rest

Forgot about Daggerfall. Good stuff.

I'm not actually sure I even think being on the railroad is a bad thing in CRPG's... it makes it a hell of a lot easier to tell a coherent story. Most of the really memorable console RPG's (FFVI, chrono, BoF2, etc) from the 90's were 100% on rails for instance.

Even most of the modern games with sandboxy maps and a lot of player freedom still usually keep the main narrative locked to a very specific path (Witcher 3 as an example). There's a reason for that.

>shit game, great scenarios/story
Do you consider Alpha Protocol a bad game? Just curious.

>Most of the really memorable console RPG's (FFVI, chrono, BoF2, etc) from the 90's were 100% on rails for instance.
That's not really a good thing.
Telling a story through exploration is a lot more interesting than telling a story through direct narrative and cutscenes.
There is a reason why Dark Souls lore got so popular.

what would you consider a good game?

Even that is flawed though. Look at Bethesda's games and how hollow those have become.

Lore is different than story though. If you jumped into BG without knowing DnD really, it would seem amazing because it just throws you in and you don't know the mechanics/specifics about the monsters until you're murdered by them, exactly like Dark Souls.

>Look at Bethesda's games and how hollow those have become.
Because they focus on dialogue instead of exploration - the same fucking mistake that every other game developer before them had made.

Giving exposition via mouthpieces isn't the same as giving exposition via visual design or short footnotes and allowing the player to piece everything together themselves.

what is an example of a game that doesn't do this that is a narrative?

Metroid Prime 2? Features virtually zero dialogue yet tells an interesting story purely via journal notes and environment.

So Metroid and Doom and Dead Space are better storytelling type games than the old Interplay?

i don't think so...

If you're really interested in environmental stroytelling, check out this blog: environmentalnarrative.wordpress.com/

>So Metroid and Doom and Dead Space are better storytelling type games than the old Interplay?
They are.
Pic very related.

So does the story being told hold no value to you, but rather only the medium it's delivered in?

Because that's pretty much the argument you're putting forth

That's not what I said. You are confusing storytelling with interactions.
Just because a game allows for more outcomes doesn't necessarily mean it's better at telling a story.
The problem I see with modern storytelling (especially, but not limited to, jRPGs) is that the story is spoonfed to you instead of you piecing the story together.

Also, the
>the story being told hold no value to you, but rather only the medium it's delivered in
argument is not without a merit.

The undeniable truth is that medium matters. There are only so many stories you can tell, but there are many more ways you can deliver said stories. Execution is more important than the concept.

I didn't say it was an argument without merit but it's one that I pretty much disagree with. There is a point to where the content of the story can outweigh it's delivery and vice versa. I just think the stories told in the Black Isle games are wonderful and epic compared to something like Dead Space or Metroid.

>That's not what I said. You are confusing storytelling with interactions.
I don't even know how to respond to this because you literally confirm what I said in the rest of your post.

>Execution is more important than the concept.
I don't think that's always fundamentally true and I think we disagree on a fundamental level for this argument so I'm going to stop here and just agree to disagree.

>E.Y.E: Divine Cybermancy >>>>>>>> all of those

Never really felt to me as though BG2 was waifu edition. Yeah, you have your tsundere and so on, but it's not hard to just play it without that.

One of my favourite parties is Charname, Minsc, Keldorn, Valygar, Mazzy, Imoen. Basically as close as I could get to Justice Bros.

On the other hand, I also love a party that winds up Charname, Jaheira, Sarevok, Imoen, Minsc, Jan, for Family Fun if the Druid is romanced, so I can see your point. I just don't really agree.

Heroes of Might & Magic III > I > II > King's Bounty > IV > V

Ultima >> Might & Magic > Wizardry > Bard's Tale '85-91 > every game mentioned in the OP > SSI AD&D Gold Box drek