EDH/Commander General

>What is the biggest cancer in the design of Commander products? And why is it bottom-up legend design?

Commanders that somehow benefit from their tax, or avoid it altogether, or still have an observable effect upon the game are the most cancerous design Commander products have had so far. As for most poorly designed I feel like Lieutenant cards end up being shitty Timmy cards that are over-costed for their effect, under-costed when they pay off, and generally shittier versions of cards you'd want to run in the 99 anyways.

Alright what do you guys think the other tribes are going to be

God I hope it's not Elves

I'd really like lieutenant to be done better. It's a cool concept but poorly executed (like most things WotC do).

scarecrows

>Thread Question
Keyword soup

If they're all 5 color decks:
Slivers, Humans, Elementals

If they're colors that make sense for the tribes, and the typical tribes Wizards is likely to go with:
Any 3 of: Elves (G or BG), Merfolk (U), Goblins (R, RG, BR, Jund), Zombies (B, UB, Esper), Wizards (U or UR)

If they're colors that make sense for the tribes and not those above (as in I actually want this section to be real):
Angels (W or WBR), Knights (WBR), Sphinx (U or Esper)

So Far into the realm of impossibility it'll literally Never happen but that doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway:
Fox (W), Hound (W or GW)

I'm hoping Fairies with a Wizard/Rogue sub theme, but we'll see.

>tfw playing for the first time in over a month this weekend

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

Are they real?

Thoughts?

>if they're all 5 color decks
Please stop this meme. It's insensitive to those of us who had to witness last year's 4-color mana base.

>Are they real?

If it has new art, it's real. You should know this by now.

Old news, already posted literally the minute they were spoiled... several hours ago.
They're real as far as anyone knows.

i painted them myself that's why they are new

>Ramos
Holy shit, that's one hell of a callback.

Also I really hope we get another legendary with Prowess. I fucking love that keyword.

only good one is the ur-dragon

1 mana cheaper dragon spells that the opponent can't remove

Well it's supposed to be an evergreen word now.

it'll take a few years before it really enters the design with full force, I suppose.

But yea, Prowess is fucking sweet.

>9CMC
>5 colors
Sure, it's good if you can ever cast it

How aren't Ramos and Taigam good?

Yes. Because:
A. O-Kagachi and Ramos
B. O-Kagachi is completely underwhelming

i should've added: apart from the outright obvious good ones

but none of them are as good as the ur-dragon, thats why he's the main commander in the dragon tribal deck

Man, O-Kagachi is crazy bad. Even more so if you enjoy Kamigawa lore. Did they completely forget about divinity counters?

It pisses me off that Taigam isn't Jeskai colored.

Wizards' design ideas basically come from "What's the opposite of Kamigawa? Let's do that!"

It would be good, but to be honest, I prefer 2-colors then 3, so I'm perfectly fine with Azorius Spellslinger.

is it possible to play a commander with no basic lands?

Yep. Colorless decks had to do this before Wastes came around in Oath of the Gatewatch.

A Ruination completely fucked their life up.

Considering people played Karn, Silver Golem and Eldrazi Titan decks long before Wastes were a thing, obviously yes.

It's more than possible, some people do it.

This is why Ruinate is one of my favorite cards.

>all these throwbacks
Never thought I'd see the day Wasitora and Ramos got their own cards.

I made a quick list for a 5 color spirit shenanigans deck with pic related.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/o-kagachi-sketch/

It can get pretty nuts with the the spirits that bounce themselves and Urza's Incubator. Very casual but I like the way it played out when goldfishing. Still pretty dissapointed in how O-Kagachi turned out though.

GUYS

WHAT IF PHYREXIANS ARE A TRIBE

WHAT IF GIX FINALLY GETS A CARD

Doesn't make sense for him to be Jeskai in either timeline. He joined the the Sultai in the OG timeline because "Fuck enlightenment, I want power!" and he's a zealous jackboot thug in the Dragons timeline.

Haven't you learned after Ludevic and O-Kagachi?
Any over-hyped lore figure that gets a card is guarenteed to be shit.
This is exactly the reason that I no longer want a Serra Planeswalker card, and in fact I want them to never make a card for her.

>implying players clamor for Gix like they did for Ludevic

But yeah the O-Kagachi card is worrying

They do. Gix has a sizable fanbase.

>wotc realized weak commander decks can't do shit to anyone with a half decent deck
>releases a bunch of moderately tuned decks without mana bases
>the best one was immediately scalped into oblivion
Hmm, I wonder what's going to happen with the new decks. There's a reason wizards doesn't throw fetch lands into every precon. I'm just happy they acknowledged that EDH'S main player base is singleton legacy lite.

>>the best one was immediately scalped into oblivion
Which, Breya?

Atraxa primarily although Breya and Yddris got scalped pretty hard, too.

Atraxa. Out of the box it was basically a tuned Ghave deck featuring deepglow skate and grip of phyresis. I took all the blue out of mine for simplicity and it's the skeleton of an incredibly powerful Ghave deck.

>tfw not playing with group for month since away for work

Is online EDH fun or is it full of Spikes?

It's alright as long as you specify no infinites / mass land destruction.

Everything is terrible online because there is no real human interaction. People are inherently self maximizing, so expect that in the form of unlimited budget.

Benefiting from commander tax is a good concept, it was just executed poorly with Prossh.
Derevi and Oloro are the true culprits.

So how to Jund Cat Dragon?
Voltron with sack subtheme?

Online EDH is good for finding friends who you can't meet IRL. I work night shifts so I can't meet up with people at normal times, but I've got a bunch of Euro friends who I can play with online.

I think the funniest part is that Marath was absolutely the most broken, but then they errata'd it and now no one gives a shit because Naya is awful.

don't bully color combinations

Without being a one card infinite token generator Marath is the worst of his batch.

In what context?

Outside of cutthroat nonsense, Marath is a powerful and versatile commander, probably much better than Oloro or non-foodchain prosh. Naya is better than Jund for making powerful interesting decks, its just that at a cutthroat level combat and simple removal isn't as relevant outside of swinging for the game.

I think I like Taigam as a Commander. A little bit of a bummer he doesn't have Prowess, though.

>Outside of cutthroat
What a pointless fucking statement. You can't make comparisons unless both decks are being played to their fullest.

i hate when cards are made specifically for commander, it stifles deckbuilding and special snowflakeness because they are always a best in slot over another card. i also beleives it ruins the entire point of edh, its suppose to utilize bulk/obscure/fun cards that have no place in other formats also the reason why i think a banlist in edh is dumb

Prowess is a Jeskai keyword, none of the Ojutai have prowess since the dragonlord erased all traces of the Jeskai past.

Said nobody ever. There are like 5 relevant decks if those are your parameters, and we'd have an incredibly boring general if anyone thought that had any merit.

shoo, shoo lore goblin.

>Have had Scion EDH for almost 8 years
>Literally my signature deck in all my groups
>Has only slowly gotten better, especially with Mirrodin 2 and the Fate Reforged dragons
>Wizards now prints 5 color dragons as a precon, but instead of printing actually boss ass new tribal dragons, they just reprint the Fate dragons and make a bunch of old story characters non tribal garbage

At least finally turning Scion into the actual ur-dragon will be a neat way to do 10 commander damage and draw one card.

Ramos could be a neat commander though.

>O-Kagachi isn't a lord for spirits
>O-Kagachi is terrible
>O-Kagachi only exiles one thing at a time and isn't a nuke machine when the ONLY CARD he was featured in is literally "exile all creatures"
Yep this is made by Wizards alright

I never said you can only play cutthroat, I said you can't compare two decks for power if you're not playing cutthroat. It's like saying Usain Bolt isn't the fastest man alive because your buddy Frank beat him in a race while Bolt was asleep.

I actually play EDH on MTGO regularly and it's pretty alright. I'd say most people have the right mindset and don't try to break the game. I'd say one out of every 10 people is a tryhard and they usually they become the immediate target.

>O-Kagachi isn't a lord for spirits
Why the fuck would they care about some tribal spirit shit?

Unfortunately for you, pic related re:

I mean I'm more upset that a big squid is supposedly stronger than the lord of all spirits whose presence literally tears apart the plane.

Why would they print O-Kagachi as part of the Dragon Tribal set, either?

...

Would Marath be worth running in the 99 of Ramos as he gives Ramos 3 counters and then can add another 3 for 3 mana?

No, it's like saying your buddy Frank is pretty good at running and could probably compete in his local state championship, with you going "NUH UH HE'S NOT USAIN BOLT HE'S FUCKING GARBAGE"

I know we like to blame Sarkhan for New Tarkir, but Bolas is to blame. If he hadn't attacked and nearly killed Ugin, Sarkhan never would have traveled through time and the dragon storms wouldn't have gotten so strong that humanity came under Draconic control, instead maintaining a balance between humanity and dragons. Hell, we may have gotten dragons integrated into the Wedges. Maybe we will in Rebels of Tarkir.

>Ramos, Dragon Engine

>Marath is worse than Jeleva, Derevi, Oloro, or Prossh
>Nuh uh, just cripple Oloro or Derevi and he's better

"Marath is worst of the batch" isn't what I*m trying to refute, it's "you can't make comparisons" which is fucking stupid

i would say jeleva is the worst of the batch. the rest of the decks use their commander to some degree. oloro gives a steady trickle of life gain at the minimum. jeleva's deck is "pretend i dont have a commander until literally everything that can go wrong does go wrong then hope jeleva can steal a bomb from my opponents as my very last resort"

you could run literally any grixis commander over jeleva, and jeleva storm would be the same deck.

Maybe because he is literally the god king of all kamigawa spirits

Anyone got any secret tech for Brago? I've got the usual suspects like Strionic Resonator, Reality Acid, O-Ring cards, etc. but was wondering if anyone had anything spicy.

>What is the biggest cancer in the design of Commander products?
Effects from the command zone hands down

>Wasitora
Was it always a cat dragon?

Your in luck, I have a super spicy Brago deck. I recommend Palace Jailer, exclusion ritual, rout and linvala, but if you want jabbering abomination spicy throw in doubling cube, every rock you can find and run a bunch of X cost spells, then artifact your way to the bank.

Yes, it was always Nekoru. Neko =cat, ru=ryu=dragon.

I wanna do some Infect Weenies shit with Sidar Kondo, because I'm an asshole and my group really likes Turn Creatures Sideways.dec so I figured I'd join in. Who's the best Partner for him that fits with this strategy?

Can't we just get a commander with Rampage outside of Teeka's Dragon?

>Palace Jailer
That's perfect. Monarch fits in with the kind of flavor I was going for too.

Vial-Smasher

Fuckers need haste via red, and black has tons of Infect stuff. Big finishers like Overrun effects can make for some good hits from Vial-Smasher too

Silas Renn so that you can
a) have 4 colors to choose from
b) swing freely with Silas
c) recur infect artifacts

I'd say Tana is an obvious choice, but I don't like having both my partners with the same CMC.

Tymna would draw you tons of cards which is obviously great. Ludevic, despite his meme status, gets you blue and red and goads people into attacking each other.

So, Ramos is a 5 color artifact Commander, right? By that I mean, even though it's an artifact/colorless I can have cards from all colors using him, correct?

That's really cool.

Yeah. Dude can literally just dump 10 free mana into X spellssssss fuck he's going to be so nuts.

>Dude can literally just dump 10 free mana into X spellssssss
Oh God you're right.

Also Storm. The possibilities for slow shitty Storm shenanigans seem bananas

Yes, it used to be that only colors in a creature's casting cost defined its color identity, but then with things like Memnarch it was changed to all mana symbols in its card text.

You can literally kill a player on the spot with him on turn 5 using Door to Nothingness by using mana rocks and Transguild Courier.
Fucking hilarious.

That's magnificent

I might have to adopt the Legacy There's the Door deck for EDH

Yeah, he's going to be pretty fucking sweet. Also just realized that it's a Turn 4 kill, in Magic Wonderland with the perfect hand at least.
>T1: Land, Sol Ring, Mind Stone
>T2: Land 2, Thran Dynamo, Power Stone
>T3: Land 3, Door to Nothingness, 5 mana to spare for Apostle's Blessing and similar protection spells, depending what colors your lands were
>T4: Ramos, Transguild Courier, opponent loses game