/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

Cool towers Edition

>Tabletop/P&P RPGs
[UESRPG - P&P RPG] docs.google.com/document/d/1pTgTN2aJUoY95JtquowagfUJLL7tCQYhzJKcCAcbvio/edit?usp=sharing
[Scrollhammer - Tabletop Wargame] 1d4chan.org/wiki/Scrollhammer_2nd_Edition
Discussion in #Scrollhammer (irc.thisisnotatrueending.com (port 6667))

>Lore Resources
[The Imperial Library] imperial-library.info/
[/r/teslore] reddit.com/r/teslore/
[UESP/Lore] uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Main_Page
[Pocket Guide to the Lore] docs.google.com/document/d/1AtsWXZKVqB4Q825_SwINY6z4_9NaGknXgeOknOCDuCU/edit
[Elder Lore Podcast] elderlore.wordpress.com/
[How to Become a Lore Buff] forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/

>General Rules
This is NOT /tesg/ minus waifus, so behave properly.
Keep the squabbling to a minimum.

Previous Kalpa:

Other urls found in this thread:

tamriel-rebuilt.org/galleries/house-dres-concepts
tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/TR_Artbook.pdf
michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fragmentae_Abyssum_Hermaeus_Morus
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Why is the tower so small? What purpose does it fill?

The necromancer probably spent all his gold on wenches and flin, and couldn't afford a bigger one.

they're bigger on the inside
most buildings in TES game suffer from TARDIS syndrome but velothi towers are one of the biggest offenders

I assume they were just outposts in remote locations which might or might not have a few shacks surrounding them, forming a small village. Rogue mages like squatting in them.

What's your favourite tower in TES?

Why is there a Burger Tower in Morrowind?

I want more house dres lore, they live in a fucking land of salt with salt plants how cool isnt that

Not really soon...
tamriel-rebuilt.org/galleries/house-dres-concepts

There's probably a lot more whacky giant insects in southern Morrowind. Isn't that one Redguard comic where Cyrus is fighting dunmer slavers in Dres territory?

>Not really soon..
That's one way of saying ''never ever''

Why doesn't Dagoth Ur have his minions use divine/almsivi intervention spells/scrolls/enchants to bypass the ghostfence?
If you have the numbers, you can easily stage an invasion this way.

Who's to say he doesn't? Those bloody ash-creatures that show up from nowhere to molest you in your sleep comes to mind.

Not part of his end game?
He already has plenty of cultists on the outside.
Also, they could just cart everything through Kogoruhn and maybe some other cave systems anyway...

Yeah. They ride giant wasps.

What would be some good pro-Dominion arguments, /tgesg/?
Preferably no memes but actual in-universe arguments.
Why would Altmer victory be ultimately justifiable and a good thing for Tamriel?

Umm because maybe there is an actual intervention happening and the name of the spell isn't just an allegory. We know certainly that the Tribunal can definitely pull off things like this, even if it's only Vivec after the Heart is destroyed (see how the Ghostgate and Ministry of Truth are still held up). Dont underestimate a millenia-old magic faggot. And Divine Intervention could easily be a quality of the shrines. All games feature Divine shrines that give you some sort of blessing. Wherever those powers are coming from, teleportation is also coming from there and it's selective (like how you need to donate before using the shrines). In my head, the shrines in temples were fine-tuned by priests to work on specific terms and priests can kind of detect who is on the other line before they are permitted to teleport.

Because fuck Talos, he has no virtue nor any quality worthy of worship. He was a warrior who got where he is by backstabbing people and stepping over others. His conquests solved nothing and his Empire was doomed to fail because it was regressive, oppressive and centralized on feeding the fat pig that is Cyrodiil, an absolute shithole where humans ruined another grand civilization thanks to leaders who tricked them into religious fervor like how Talos cults do. He unleashed the equivalent of an atom bomb on Summerset because he couldn't fight with honor, which is for some fucking reason, what he represents in the pantheon. Nothing he ever did contributed to anyone but himself. He did not partake in any creation or important metaphysical event yet he demands the same worship as Divines. Besides, his empire was never taken seriously by anyone because it was obviously there for the sole purpose of enabling sociopaths to remain in power and get rich.

Show me a Talos worshipper and ill show you a pragmatist. I fucking hate humans. Screw their religion, screw their culture, fuck this gay earth, muh immortality.

t.altmer

>Preferably no memes
Oh well, I tried.

I suppose you could go for "the Empire is oppressive" route, but is this true?
The Dominion doesn't seem to be the pinnacle of tolerance? Quite the contrary.

user you wanted in-universe answers. This is what a typical Thalmor supporter would tell you. Keep in mind that Altmer are pretty fucking supremacist when it comes to their culture and heritage. Tiber Septim / Talos are extremely controversial figures because they are responsible for plenty of wars without any real reason other than to unify Tamriel under the Imperial City. They fought pretty dirty in Hammerfell for example. An Altmer doesn't give a shit if the Empire stopped slavery and built roads and whatever, they are self centered. They would ask themselves, why do I have to worship a guy who invaded my home and killed my ancestors because they didn't pay tax.

For a Thalmor supporter, the Dominion is the best thing since sliced bread. He is finally legally above every other creature and the political establishment serves him and him only. No need to consider what the fuck Argonians are doing, as long as its not against him. Who cares if they are massacring Dunmer.

Whether Empire was oppressive or not is debatable but ultimately moronic because we simply dont have enough info to form a coherent argument for one side or the other. There are some good stuff they did, there are some bad stuff they did. Sometimes they are liberal some times they are pretty totalitarian. Bethesda won't write a handbook for emperors, nor will they give us a comprehensive historical analysis of governance.

>Thalmor hate roads, centralized government and taxes
>but they do like eugenics
so they're a covenant of hoppean ancaps?

damn nords and their socialism

So a more in depth political dispute isn't really possible? Shame.
For all the Stormcloak vs Imperial regarding Skyrim controversies it would have been nice to have a wider Dominion vs Empire regarding Tamriel itself.
I mean something like non-Mer factions in Tamriel actually having good reasons to support them, different Dunmer Great Houses supporting one side or the other for example. More nuance and complexity.

The Dominion vs Empire thing seems a bit too simplistic being based mostly on racial supremacy

.

this one

tamriel rebuilts concept art is fucking kino

tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/TR_Artbook.pdf

if bethesda made tes vi using that art for concept you could easily have some goat material

Unfortunately user, Skyrim was written specifically for Casu-el's and this is not a secret. Thalmor are simply magic elf nazis with zero redeeming qualities. TES usually has politics that imitate real life for the purpose of celebration or parody but the last games are just so lazy, it's unbelievable. As long as it gives rise to quests, it's fine, they thought.

I wish they encouraged fan creation then actually implemented it into canon.
>inb4 trainwiz

Those towers look terrible in-game

The Diamond Tower if it was still standing ;-;

One earthquake and that city's a goner.

That has mostly to do with the fact that they don't really look alike.

Are there still any good and creative concept artists at Bethesda?

Reminds me of Ronda

Veloth invented burgers. This was the real reason for the Chimer's departure from Summerset Isle. Sadly, the art has been lost to time, and all that remains is the architectural representations.

>Velothi towers were ancient McDonald's

both mournhold and solitude have a black wolf on a red background as a flag
does this mean anything?

Whale- Tsun
Hawk- Kyne
Snake- Shor
Fox-
Moth- Dibella?
Dragon- Alduin
Owl- Jhunal?
Bear-
Wolf-

Which god matches up with which Totem?

It's just a coincidence.

>Dagoth-Ur slew Kagrenac and took the tools the Dwemer used to tap the power of the Heart. He went to his dying lord Nerevar and asked him what to do with these tools. And Nerevar summoned Azura again, and she showed them how to use the tools to separate the power of the Heart from the Dwemer people.

>And on the fields, the Tribunal and their armies watched as the Dwemer turned into dust all around them as their stolen immortality was taken away.

Wait, what? I thought Kagrenac struck the heart himself and made the dwemer disappear.

From Nerevar at Red Mountain, btw

probably for the same reasons that ancient indian vases and german flags from wwii both had swastikas on them

Well the empire during Skyrim seems to be pretty fucked. Its fractured and not really in control over most provinces. The Emperor is very weak.

Apart from that it boils down to a racial question. We don't know enough about the individual governments to really rate their efficiency.

The Thalmor seem to be very skilled at Spy Work though.

Fox is Orkey, Bear is Stuhn, Wolf is Mara

where do you think the nazis got the swastika from?

A mirror, apparently.

I agree with Orkey being the fox but this made me think, wasn't there a Shezzarrine associated with a fox?

That book was written by "the Tribunal Temple". It's not an accurate source of information, or, at the very least, you could argue there was a Dragon Break (Numidium was at the Battle of Red Mountain), and it did happen. But so did every other account of what happened there.

hans the fox
there was a dragon tusk 2.0 incident like half a year ago about the fox and the snake

No clue. They did get an artist who's done work on Glorantha to do a few pieces for ESO or Legends or something.

michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with

Hans the Fox.

What did Hans the Fox do?

I believe he was one of the 500 Companions. That's why some say Pelinal was one of them, because they were both Shezzarrine.

What would a Twin Lamps emblem/banner/icon look like?
I was thinking of something like pic related but well made

>wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again.
- Before the Ages of Man

He was also counted among the 500 Companions, but that's the kind of story where they just throw in everyone they can think of.

a broken chain would be cool aswell

Interesting implications regarding Dibella and her totem with the ancestor moth stuff. Also how Shor is the Fox, but also the Serpent constellation.
I could've sworn Tsun was the Whale though, hmm.

>dragon tusk 2.0 incident like half a year ago about the fox and the snake
what is this?

I got a bit autistic and started arguing with everyone in the thread. I insisted on Shor being the snake and Orkey being the fox.

Pretty embarassing desu

Tsun and Stuhn are kind of a weird case. Tsun, the bear, guards the whalebone bridge (Stuhn) in Sovngarde. Tsun and Stuhn also switched places:
>Stuhn and Tsun were shifting and it was still uncouth to prevent this kind of neighboring.

>inb4 trainwiz
But they did actually incorporate his fan stuff

It led to a beautiful cavalcade of shitposting though.

Dont really know, nor do I care tbqh. Never even played any of his mods.

What we need is a Dreamboy. Trainwiz is ok, but the train motifs get a little old after a while.

You're missing out

It was a waste of time really.
I'm still not sure about Stuhn and Stun.

en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fragmentae_Abyssum_Hermaeus_Morus
confirms that Shor is a fox

They did? How do we know?

ESO's Sotha Sil content has references to it, what tips you off is that trainwiz spelled names and words wrong, and they retain that misspelling in the ESO stuff.

>"Let me tell you why I support the Altmeri Dominion, and why I think any right-minded Altmer should do the same."
>"I am not old enough to remember Tiber Septim's conquest, but every Altmer knows of the brutality he used when he fielded his infernal golem against us. Our surrender was swift and humiliating, for fear of complete destruction. Yet you worship him for this. But we did not forget the suffering, and his Empire was never welcome."
>"The Empire spawned forces that seek to change what we, pervert our culture and our race into something lesser. Dunmer stood to inherit the throne of Firsthold, and the King of Shimmerene was slaughtered by pro-Imperial fanatics. Landmarks and royalty were targeted by violent gangs, no doubt funded by disgraced exiles, and perhaps even parts of the Empire."
>"Sure, there were weak-willed imperialists like Ocato who cared more for Empire than for homeland, as we were force to change our ancient ways to the whims of some foreign ruler, but our spirit never succumbed. And for centuries, we sent out gold, ships and blood to this faraway Emperor of Man. Yet they were reluctant to provide any such aid to us."

>"When the fool Antiochus Septim nearly let us be conquered by the Maormer, it was our Altmeri regional rulers who had to go above and beyond, to save us from Orgnum's soldiers. When Uriel Septim V needed to build the world's largest fleet for his suicidal invasion, did not Altmeri suffer and die for him? There have never been a naval tradition to rival ours. How many times have the realms of Man descended into civil war, placing another burden on us?"
>"Then came the Great Anguish. I suppose you lot call it the Oblivion Crisis. If there ever was a time for the Empire to earn any legitimacy, to protect its unwilling citizens from the otherworldly hordes, this would be it. But yet again, the Empire failed us, withdrawing forces to protect Cyrodiil. Because that's all the Empire has ever been about, the protection and enrichment of the Cyrodiil that Men stole from Mer."
>"Thousands upon thousands slaughtered, buildings laid in rubble, venerable mages and leaders lost. The Crystal Tower, monument to Aldmeri ingenuity and Altmeri magic, a symbol which history I doubt you can under stand, sacked and destroyed by Dagon's filth. That is an event I am old enough to remember. Centuries of service to the Empire, for nothing."

Dwemer towers from Morrowind.
Sadly, the latest ESO cashgrab seems to be using Skyrim-style Dwemer, which is disappointing.

>"I didn't support the Thalmor before Great Anguish. I was young, and I didn't care much for politics. Life under the Empire was all I ever knew. But they fought for us that day, when the Empire failed. It was the War of the Isle all over again, just much worse. I might not be alive if it weren't for what they did in those days. We all knew that we've been categorically exploited by the rest of Tamriel for centuries, but the Thalmor were the first to really say that out loud. And the first to do something about it. And for that they have my eternal support."
>"I'm not much into their higher ideals, but I agree that the only way to truly prosper again is to return to how it all was in our glory days, before the Empire. The Dominion client kingdoms; Valenwood, Pelletine and Anequina, I don't care much for. They're a means to an end, the manpower and resources we need to ensure our prosperity and our independence. I don't wish them ill, I just cannot put the interest of any foreign realm above our own. Our strength has always been in inwards perfection, though it's clear we need global strength to safeguard it."

>Cymbamia, Altmeri Patriot

Kind of. They're new architecture rather than Skyrim's style towers. So it's like Morrowind's models with Skyrim's textures and adornments.

>The Eight Divines are viewed by the Nords as a “Southern” import. They retain some of the taint of the Alessian Order, and are basically viewed as a religion for foreigners. Their gods are fine for them, but Nords need Nord gods.

>Some of the gods are the same (or similar) – significantly these are the three female gods, which are far more important to the Nords than they are in the Imperial Cult. (Kyne is in fact the de facto head of the Nord pantheon.) The Nords are perplexed and disturbed by the Imperial Cult’s focus on the Dragon God – they regard this as a fundamental misunderstanding of the universe, and one likely to cause disaster in the end. (Which fits perfectly with the pessimistic Nord view of the world in general – things are likely to turn out badly, and it will probably be caused by some foreigner.)

Oh, what skyrim could have been

What did they incorporate?

Pretty much everything from his sotha sil mods, including the guns.

Morrowind's dwemer ruins had really neat shapes, they looked alien and exotic. I do think that Skyrim's ruins has a better color scheme. Vanilla Morrowind was pretty dull in colors.

I liked the Tribunal dwemer dungeons the best.

Are they any different? I haven't progressed enough in Tribunal yet because it's so sluggish.

He seems to have been a Breton hero, the name is used interchangeably with Arnand the Fox, a previous incarnation of Zurin Arctus.

>a previous incarnation of Zurin Arctus
One of the biggest mysteries left is what exactly is going on with Chevalier Renald (we can guess that) and who exactly "the Pig" is (harder to guess).

They're bigger, more complex, and use environmental effects to a greater extent than regular ruins.

The Dominion hates Dunmer because of their Daedra worship.

tribunals dungeons were a prototype for the ones in oblivion

the sewers were fucking shit so far

That doesn't exactly speak in their favor does it?

And visually and in terms of space Skyrim's ones take more cues from them.

Was there an explanation for Arena's Argonians being incredibly humanoid?

Hist experiment. More of a joke. Don't think about it too hard.

How do the different races view Bosmer? I've been lurking imperial library but there isn't much on how they interact outside of a few cases.

>How do the different races view Bosmer?

You've seen Fargoth. How do you think a normal person would view that thing?

Congrats on being canon.

So are there screenshots and stuff showing how they're the same?

A fair amount of Sotha screenshots yeah. Halls of Fabrication had a lot of cool lore tidbits. Arquebuses are canon, but so is apparently hacking and computer terminals (the final boss isn't technically that giant dwemer centurion with the fucking missile launcher, it's an AI that takes command of it. The final fight is twelve people having to distract it while Divayth Fyr desperately hacks the terminal behind it.

Huh. That's pretty surprising. Not offense to you, but I'm not sure how I feel about that.

It's cannon canon bro. Sotha Sil already had circuitboards and advanced robots in vanilla Tribunal anyway.

Is there any explanation for why things are so dwemer in appearance?

>Ysmir is an aspect of Shor
>Tiber Septim was Ysmir
>Tiber Septim mantled into Shor
>Talos is Shor, Shor mantled into Shor to fill his own spot after elfniggergods killed him

do i have it right?

Yep. You're specifically going through the part of the city where Sotha Sil has been gathering up tons of dwemer technology and melting it down for materials, but he was making things of dwemer design. The AI actually writes a report to Sotha Sil mentioning how he's canned all production of dwemer-style stuff recently, so you fight heavily modded dwemer robots, and others that are wrecked and basically undead (empty eye sockets spilling out glowing blue liquid). One of the bossfights is against a trio of refabricators, humanoid fabricants who are necromancers that reanimate the junkyard you're in, so you've got all these severed robot limbs rising up to attack you. There's also enemies that have two megaman style buster cannons instead of limbs.

>The AI actually writes a report to Sotha Sil mentioning how he's canned all production of dwemer-style stuff recently
Good AI.

Assembly General good general.
Fyr tries talking to it at one point, and it yells back
>QUERY DENIED. ERROR: CREATOR NOT FOUND.

Genuine, complete Thalmor victory means Nirn is destroyed in a desperate grasp for divinity that has no chance of working. There... really aren't any good arguments.

If they WEREN'T trying to blow up the world, a case could be made for their long lifespans and innate grasp of magic making them uniquely suited for guiding the growth of the the other races. They're probably the most technically advanced culture around. In the long run, spending a century or two under a non-doomsday cult Dominion rule would be horrendously bloody, but potentially very progressive.

They're still dicks though.

Sort of.

holy shit thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis

sweet lord i get that this was supposed to be Skyrim under an extended period of Imperial control, but i really wish they pressed the Nordic uniqueness more.

I'm happy that they showcased their emphasis on Nord-origin gods like Dibella, Kyne, and possibly Shor via Talos.

Still though, Kyne shouldn't be only called by her Nordic name by some mountain hermit, and by her Imperial name in the cities.

Isn't that one of the big reasons the Elves hate him?
I get that they are butthurt over Tiber's brass tower nuke, but don't they also recognize him as a revived Lorkhan, the guy who thrust them out of Aedraship in their minds?

Bosmer seem to be kind of glossed over, even in-universe. At worst, they're considered those weird elves that live in trees and eat their dead. Their women tend towards noticeable beauty though, and that probably helps more with their reputation than most will admit.

Who was in the right here?

>dunmer
>supporting any outlanders