Warmasters' Triumvirate X

>Okay, I'm telling you right now, these guys are pretty much the Silver Cataphracts. Like, the only difference is their Primarch is a worker instead of a king.
Actually, I may take that back. It's kind of hard to avoid stepping on the toes of the other two AUs, and their strategy is pretty much what anybody would use for space Russians.

Better?

Yes.

Doing a couple redesigns, let me know what you think

Ignore the Gold, was doing a veteran when I had the idea!

It's definitely a lot better, although the kneecaps might be better as olive green.

Rokuten.

Also, stop trolling

If the question is still in the room what exactly motivated the Separatists to secede, I say it's because Rokuten and the other Separatists hated the way the Imperium was run by officials installed by the Emperor/the Emperor himself by proxy. Posting the thing again.

As such, I would say it is Rokuten himself who calls for a revolution. Malcador may end up lending support from within the loyalist controlled space since the rest of the Terran council has wrestled him out of his seat in their own political scheming while Emps is absent, hoping that seven (six?) angry legions on his doorstep may be a wake-up call.

I suggest we look at the conflict between Loyalist and Separatist/Revolutionaries as the main conflict with the chaos heretics later chiming in.

I advise against the whole tech-heresy as an actual reason for the Revolutionaries. The Imperium itself would value any new tech, it is solely the AdMech whose religious dogmata make them go apeshit about what technology is a-ok or not. Don't forget, only the Emps and maybe Malcador know about the true nature of Chaos at this point, so their religious infighting is not nearly as justified as it is in 40k.

Instead, it should be that the later tech-heretics would side with the Revolutionaries because they represent a possibility to escape the conservative direction of Mars, while actual raving madmen go and join the Chaos heretics.

[cont.]

>If the question is still in the room what exactly motivated the Separatists to secede, I say it's because Rokuten and the other Separatists hated the way the Imperium was run by officials installed by the Emperor/the Emperor himself by proxy. Posting the thing again.
Well, it wasn't really that Rokuten hated it, but nobody will remember that by M41.
>As such, I would say it is Rokuten himself who calls for a revolution. Malcador may end up lending support from within the loyalist controlled space since the rest of the Terran council has wrestled him out of his seat in their own political scheming while Emps is absent, hoping that seven (six?) angry legions on his doorstep may be a wake-up call.
I doubt they would be able to kick him out, seeing as he is the founder of the Officio Assassinorum, an organization that has a tendency to kill all the High Lords of Terra; and he is THE regent of Terra, so anybody who messes with him messes with the Emperor.

This brings up the altered council of Nikaea: What should it be about? Who should be prosecuted? With our overwhelming pro-psyker and therefore pro-space wizardry support, there's not much going on here. Again I advise against tech-heresy. Since I already believe that simple politics should be the prime motivation for this whole ordeal, let the council be about politics: Let's prosecute one of the later Revolutionary legions for repeatedly ignoring orders from Emp's stewards, their defense being that they could not fulfill a certain (possibly unfair) quota due to unforeseen difficulties had they followed instructions and not improvised or claiming the right to have a final say as they are being the ones who have to live with the consequences of diplomatic or military fuckups.

Since the council happens much earlier, it could pretty well be that it is during this time we already draw lines, the later Revolutionary legions support the prosecuted primarch for going solo while the Loyalists act as his accusers. The later chaos heretics can be evenly split among these groups.

Since we have so many psyker or psyker-favoring Primarchs, would it make sense for Nikaea to be more "The Emperor is laying down the law for all the kids, cut that psyker shit out" rather than "Let's all have a debate, shall we?"

Still awful. Having the feet a different color is a bad idea in general, and a darker red may help fix the currently unbearable contrast.

Another primarch instigating a revolution? I see what you're aiming for, but just to keep sure there's not too much overlap I'm gonna post a digest of Zelbezis' rise to power.

>World united by a god-king one thousand year prior to the primarch's arrival, fractured after his death into a corrupt aristocracy
>Primarch lands in a village of exiled dissidents, is taught the ways of warfare
>His primarchly abilities kickstart a revolution, he becomes figurehead and general
>From victory to victory, some of his partisans begin to plot against him
>He assembles a guard of utterly faithful death-squads to enact retribution from within
>By the time the Emperor comes, Zelbezis Dyestes has become a more dreadful dictator than those he has overthrown

Why do we have so many psyker primarchs?

I think it just sort of worked out that way. There wasn't any coordination towards that end that I know of.

>M41
This is a recurring worry that I just don't share. It's M31, the Revolutionaries have canon Horus' worry that they are being made redundant and superfluous by doing all the heavy lifting and then not allowed a say in the logistics of the conquered planets nor the supply of their own legions. What happens after the Brotherwar up until M41 is as far as I am concerned completely irrelevant for our progress.

>Malcador
Alright, fine, you got me. I admit it here and now: I have no fucking idea WHAT exactly Malcador does. All my information is based on other threads and HH novels. Fuck me, right? From all those sources, I could only ever discern him as the Emp's advisor/confidant. In those regards, I have never seen him have any more power or influence at the point of M31 than other politicians and stewards put in place by the Emperor while he fucked off to tinker on the Golden Throne.
So what exactly says that he is the only one with assassins? That technology couldn't possibly be his and his alone to breed and equip human killing machines. And while I agree that his close relations to Big E allow him extreme status, I actually doubt that ambitious politicians wouldn't try to push him away from Emps in any fashion in order to install themselves as His righthand-man, or to try to undermine his status. Malcador isn't the angelic psyker-god who charms everyone at first glance and his only argument is that he's friends with the cool kid everybody wants to be friends with.

Possible, put it on the list.

When we each posted our primarchs, I guess we all sort of had kept in mind that technically speaking all primarchs are latent psykers due to being of Big E's stock, but forgot that maybe we don't need to explicitly mention that they're psykers unless they actually employ mind bullets, telekinesis or clairvoyancy.

And with that, I go to sleep. Already am far too late and I got a whole day of drinking mead and pretending I'm a medieval drunkard ahead of me.

Salutations my fair fellows.

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malcador_(Character)

I know people sometimes debate about how useful the Lexicanum is, but that'd be a good place to at least get a more concrete overview of Malcador.

>Alright, fine, you got me. I admit it here and now: I have no fucking idea WHAT exactly Malcador does. All my information is based on other threads and HH novels. Fuck me, right? From all those sources, I could only ever discern him as the Emp's advisor/confidant. In those regards, I have never seen him have any more power or influence at the point of M31 than other politicians and stewards put in place by the Emperor while he fucked off to tinker on the Golden Throne.
He literally started the Inquisition.
>So what exactly says that he is the only one with assassins? That technology couldn't possibly be his and his alone to breed and equip human killing machines.
He literally started the Officio Assassinorum too, so while he's not strictly the only one with assassins, he's in command of the best of them.
And while I agree that his close relations to Big E allow him extreme status, I actually doubt that ambitious politicians wouldn't try to push him away from Emps in any fashion in order to install themselves as His righthand-man, or to try to undermine his status. Malcador isn't the angelic psyker-god who charms everyone at first glance and his only argument is that he's friends with the cool kid everybody wants to be friends with.
The problem is Malcador is about as mysterious as the Emperor himself, and almost as powerful. He's also one of the few people who know anything about the Emperor's plans.

Phoneposting because I can't sleep.

So I caught up on at least the biography. Based on Rokuten's reply, and what I learned on lexicanum (I actually like it a lot and apologise for not researching out of my own motivation), I can only take away that Malcador wouldn't even need to rely on legions to correct a corrupt Imperial government because he can either mindbullet, mind control or assassinate everybody who mucks up on Terra. So while he would definitely be a sufficiently influental person to gain the support of the legions, I fail to see why he would go that route if he can just as easily remove anybody before he takes his breakfast tea. Also his status basically makes him a replacement Emperor. If Emps is unavailable then people automatically turn to Malc. He has no motivation to join or instigate a revolution.
In that regard it would have to be Malcador himself who turns the governing body into a police state while Emps is unavailable, being the reason for the Revolutionaries' frustration in the first place.
I suggest abandoning the idea of Malcador having any relations to the Revolutionary movement, at all.
I don't see how this influences the Revolutionaries, though. They get angry and want their fair share. Why is that not enough?

Thread prompt: Make up two unique units for your Legion as would be used if FW made rules and models for the setting.

Have Rokuten be Warmaster but Malcador pretty much works for him the way he does for the Emperor. Pulling his strings and handleing all the bullshit. We all know Malcador is the real leader while the Emperor / Rokuten are the figureheads.

It could well be that Malc stepping up is what really ticks off the Seps. If they're afraid of being made redundant by FILTHY MORTALS, then wouldn't having one (even Malcador) take up the throne instead of one of the PURE, PERFECT, SUPERHUMAN PRIMARCHS piss them off?

This is basically exactly what has happened in the OU. He just made it look like a Trial to stop Magnus getting butthurt.
We could have it not be a trial at all.
Big E could just roll up, drop his pants and say "look boys, my willy is biggest and I am sick of the you guys using psykers 'cause that's my thing. So cut it out".

talking like their rules or just what they are?

>Have Rokuten be Warmaster but Malcador pretty much works for him the way he does for the Emperor. Pulling his strings and handleing all the bullshit.
WaiT NIGga wHat

Malcador was not manipulating the Emperor. He even gave his own life to help preserve the Emperor's vision.

This especially fits the Ogre Legion, who were taught by Rokuten that the leader should be the warrior, not bureaucrats.

Not manipulating him. More doing all the real leading of humanity while the Emperor was taking care of shit that he wanted humanity to have nothing to do with. He more or less gave up control to Malcs while he did the gate shit.
Another theory was that Malcs and Emps are the same person. Emps is just like the big impressive projection of Malcador and that frees Malcador up to do all the other shit. Like a split personality.

I think that's getting a little too far into the weeds as far as what Malcador is or is not.

Yeah I agree. I'm not saying we use that. Just saying we have Rokuten can be the warmaster in all regards to the Legions. But Malcs is still basically the one running the seps in all but name.
Basically I think I'm agreeing with what you said earlier.

It's already decided that Malcador leaves the Imperium to side with the Separatists and leads them - even if Rokugen is the hired muscle as the Warmaster - and takes Mars with him.

See Malcador wouldn't need to start a rebellion, he as the Emperor's representative has the resources to prevent superstition from spreading in the Imperium.
We're literally talking this over again.

Just what they are. No point in rules. name and fluff.

What if we have the Emperor incapacitated earlier, thus triggering the chaos gods to corrupt primarchs earlier, then having the primarchs cut off from Terra by the Ruinstorm create their own Imperium Secundus but are reluctant to let go of that power when the storm abades?

It's awesome how Malcador's betrayal of the Imperium and the teleportation of Mars has improved this AU so drastically. Just look at how active discussion is after that change!

>What if we have the Emperor incapacitated earlier,
Aren't we doing this already?
>thus triggering the chaos gods to corrupt primarchs earlier, then having the primarchs cut off from Terra by the Ruinstorm create their own Imperium Secundus but are reluctant to let go of that power when the storm abades?
Hmm. Yes... Maybe...

>what is night time
>what is sleep

Yep, you nailed it.

You could have the cut off for a relatively long time, like a few hundred years, and assume the other group has been wiped out. Long enough for potentially irreconcilable cultural differences to develop that mean when it finally does abate neither side wants to rejoin the other?

Not too hot. Green and red makes Christmas marines

That sounds like a pretty cool idea actually. Takes care of a few issues. That's where my vote's going

>Emps is incapacitated at Ullanor
>Appoints Malc and High Lords to steward Terra in his stead
>Malc elbows himself into a quasi-solitary leadership position due to trying too hard to live up to Big E's dream
>Ogre Legion and Revolutionaries suspect a treasonous power grab and make for Terra to take back the reins

Writes itself
Council of Nikaea becomes Decree of Nikaea.

I don't think so. Having their own stable Empire makes it so easy to just have them sit at the other side of the Galaxy and not give a shit about the other two factions. They should have as many reasons to be forced into this conflict as possible.

Btw. Voting to start calling them Revolutionaries instead of Separatists now.

Hey Guys of those other AU's.

Did you have the same problems, chaos and assholes etc?

I'm not an asshole I'm just petty as fuck.

You are an elephant and I didn't mean you. You're one of the guys actually contributing something to this shit.

The primary difference between the two is that Zelbezis is a fascist and Piter is a communist. Maybe you two could put slightly more emphasis on that.

>This is a recurring worry that I just don't share. It's M31, the Revolutionaries have canon Horus' worry that they are being made redundant and superfluous by doing all the heavy lifting and then not allowed a say in the logistics of the conquered planets nor the supply of their own legions. What happens after the Brotherwar up until M41 is as far as I am concerned completely irrelevant for our progress.
I agree with this.

As for Malcador, I cannot stress enough that I feel that the Sigillite would NEVER betray the Imperium. Any talk of him leading the Seperatists is rediculous imo.

This seems much better than anything suggested related to Malcador.

Yeah, still not fully on board with that 'moving Mars' thing.

Not really. The problem is that the arguing got oddly personal this time. We should make sure that doesn't happen again.

Ya, kinda personal. But I think this is because he was just a retarded troll. Easy to flame on others projects but a wjole different thing to contribute something of worth like an own attempt at legion creating.

However, atm it is kinda chaotic ( we won) and the anons are not sure what is going on.

RaJobs, i think that you might have the best overview over the.project and if not already, I suggest that you become project leader with a veto right who set the standards and the keypoints of course it would be neat if you listen to our arguments but sometimes strict democracy is not getting you anywhere. So could you please rule some points out etc.?

>The Thread Where We Start Saying "Ex" Instead of "Ten"
Tenterminatus?

Well, shit. It'd be an honor, really. I think it might certainly help streamline certain chaotic discussions, but I don't want to give the impression this is my show. I'll gladly take on such a role though, if there's support for it.

As for ruling out certain points, I'd be perfectly willing, though I'm busy with work right now. If people are ok with me taking on a 'project leader' like role, I'll be sure to settle some disputes by tonight.

>oddly personal
>oddly
Have... have you really never seen a shitposter? That happens all the time, where someone pretends to support someone's idea, but takes it to a psychotic extreme to cause division and confusion in the group.

Yes.

Fine.

I think really that it will help to focus

This idea sounds better than anything we've had since Grégoire's Sovereigns got remove from the project. It has my support, though I dont't know why Rokten is the only pretendant for Warmaster-hood. Ghyadred looks like he could do a decent job.

The other AU I work on has the advantage of being on an overly-moderated forum, so shitposting disappears before we notice it, and we try to collectively keep edge-sue-ness in check.

I'm gonna try and put more emphasis on Dyestes being a policing, "freedom is a buzzword" asshole.

>Malc elbows himself into a quasi-solitary leadership position
He already is in a quasi-solitary leadership position, he's the fucking regent of Terra!
>Ogre Legion and Revolutionaries suspect a treasonous power grab and make for Terra to take back the reins
Well, that's the Ogre Legion's narrative anyway...
Worst camping trip ever.
>Fucked up lore
>Lumey-expy trying to take the reins
>Can't get beyond Heresy era
>Trolls come in and fuck with it
>Caveman tank legion
>Russians
All we're missing is waifus and we'll be Hektor Heresy 2.0

>RaJobs, i think that you might have the best overview over the.project and if not already, I suggest that you become project leader with a veto right who set the standards and the keypoints of course it would be neat if you listen to our arguments but sometimes strict democracy is not getting you anywhere. So could you please rule some points out etc.?
This kills the Ogre Legion.

>Fucked up lore
>Lumey-expy trying to take the reins
>Can't get beyond Heresy era
>Trolls come in and fuck with it
>Caveman tank legion
>Russians
Oh, and dorf marines.

I'm starting to think you're not particularly willing to work with this project. Maybe it's best for everyone if we open up the 21st slot…?

It's already open though. The Sons of the Sovereign guy left, remember?

Wait, are you serious?

You know what I mean. If all you have to contribute is negativity disguised behind thinly veiled sarcasm, then idk what you're even doing here. You clearly want the entire AU to fit your own particular whim, considering you ridicule everything that's not exactly to your liking.

Well, there was this one time with a guy called Nathanog...

I'm still surprised that A: people seem to think the "Malcador moving Mars" thing had any weight behind it beyond me throwing a random idea I had out there for people to examine, and B: that no one seemed to recognize the concern trolling happening last thread, lol.

That said:

>Can't get past the Heresy
How fast do you expect these kind of projects to move?

>Caveman tank Legion
Yeah, that criticism's reasonable.

>Russians
I've never seen an AU without someone going full commie, although it's not to my taste.

>Lumey
*No one* in this group so far has been Lumey. I can assure you of that Although it was kind of retarded for to suggest we elect a project head, since that literally never works.

>If all you have to contribute is negativity disguised behind thinly veiled sarcasm, then idk what you're even doing here.
I'm not seeing it. If you're referring to>He already is in a quasi-solitary leadership position, he's the fucking regent of Terra!
That's not negativity, that's a plainly stated fact.
Or >All we're missing is waifus and we'll be Hektor Heresy 2.0
>Oh, and dorf marines.
That was a joke highlighting very vague similarities with the Hektor Heresy.

>You clearly want the entire AU to fit your own particular whim, considering you ridicule everything that's not exactly to your liking.
I don't. In fact, I've agreed with people on multiple occasions with their ideas.
>How fast do you expect these kind of projects to move?
I don't expect them to move fast at all and I see no reason for it to because it's a fan effort, it just gets somewhat irritating for me since while I was waiting for when the Guard can shine, the guys who worked on the legions were still talking over the legions fifty threads in. People leaving, while it was a fact of life for a no-profit project, didn't help.
>>Caveman tank Legion
>Yeah, that criticism's reasonable.
>>Russians
>I've never seen an AU without someone going full commie, although it's not to my taste.
I don't remember that in Imperium Asunder, but maybe my memory's just haze
>>Lumey
>*No one* in this group so far has been Lumey.
>He doesn't know I'm Lumey's protege
Anyway, that entire thing was a joke, so don't take it seriously.

I probably should've put a :^) in those posts.

:^) only gets you so far, lol.

Look man, I like you well enough. Your ideas are good, you right well enough and you know your shit, but I get the impression you're really not a team player. That makes me question why you're bothering to contribute. I'm not sending you off, because I neither can, nor want to.

Sorry, what is a Lumey?

And I see it the other way around. If you don't have at least one leading position, you discuss everything to death, nobody will know what the status quo is and trolls come in and confuse everyone.

Moving the planet is not so out of warhammer lore. Think of the plabet of sorcerors. But if it was just a joke and trolling you exactly proofed why it is important to have someone who hold the reigns. I fell for it and thought your idea was serious. It is crazy but we are talking about a universe inhabited by demons and xenos and strange stuff which could exain close to anything. Maybe the seps are the real creators of the tyrannids who planned of a new way to attack the imperium and thus created the perfect killing organism.

All is possible.

Moving the planet wasn't a troll idea. It was just *an* idea.

But then people went fucking nuts on both sides of the topic for some reason.

>All is possible

Yes, but not all is wise. I never saw moving mars as an option until it wasn't brought up; but once it was it immediately felt it would be incredibly hard to justify in universe without removing the ties to the OU we still have.

Lumey was an angry frogman that made everyone miserable but really greased the wheels of the whole project.

It gets me far enough.
>>Caveman tank Legion
>Yeah, that criticism's reasonable.
Whoops, forgot to reply to this one.

To be fair, the caveman tank legion was one of my favorites when it was around. Unfortunately, it was plagued by plagiarism, but I doubt you'll have the same problem.
>Look man, I like you well enough. Your ideas are good, you right well enough and you know your shit, but I get the impression you're really not a team player.
It's probably my tendency to shitpost. Also, if I put forth an idea, it's usually because I honestly think it's better, so it's harder for me to settle for the """"""worse"""""" option not that it is, but it's not like it's impossible for me to agree with other people. Like up here I think Sarco's idea is good, and here I shouldn't have just replied with shitposting, because I thought that was a good idea too. Mainly because it was most in line with my idea, but hey, it's hard to fuck up the old "We fight the government to free it from tyranny!" story.

We should totally go with one of these btw.
>Sorry, what is a Lumey?
Lumey was one of the foremost creators in the Hektor Heresy. De facto editor, a bit angry sometimes. Not the most agreeable person around.
Pretty much this

Thx guys for the insight.

I think it depends and I think Rajobs will make a good job. Only because that Lumey went too far, Rajobs seems not like that Kind of Person.

I need some security. A plan. Someone I can rely upon. ATM we have too much Chaos here. Lots of ideas but AS Rokuten stated everyones idea is the best. It is kinda frustating. A clear roadmap for 30k would be fine.and i don't think we get one without a leader.

Sorry, forgot to add my nick.

Lumey went exactly far enough. Also, I stand by
As the current best preposed solution.

>I think it depends and I think Rajobs will make a good job. Only because that Lumey went too far, Rajobs seems not like that Kind of Person.
Lumey didn't hold that kind of power. He just shouted until everybody agreed on something or somebody left. Usually, he was in the right though.
>I need some security. A plan. Someone I can rely upon. ATM we have too much Chaos here.

>Lots of ideas but AS Rokuten stated everyones idea is the best.
You have me mistaken. I meant those two ideas were good, not everyone's idea was the best.
>It is kinda frustating. A clear roadmap for 30k would be fine.and i don't think we get one without a leader.
We're almost at a breakthrough on how the split happens though. Unless anybody has any other ideas, and are the ones we should choose between. I'm voting on Sarco's.

"Because we're greedy assholes" seems like a very human but also very lame reason to be Separatists. Sarco's idea is plausible, but it lacks all gravitas.

I mean currently most of my job is retooling a lot of ideas or making ideas work within lore. So I suppose if we get a consensus on just WHAT we want to do I can take a crack at it.

It could work. Legions get cut off in the far end of the Imperium, and have to work on their own for centuries, trying their best initially to preserve the Imperial Truth with mixed results at best, and utter failure at worse. The storm breaks up, and they find the Imperium a wholly different creature from what they knew. The Imperial Cult has sprouted and taken hold of the Imperium, and the legions had been divided into smaller chapters (Which, due to their situation, they saw no reason for). Horrified, they declare independence from the Imperium and start the Brother War.

A second brotherwar anyway. The Chaos forces would still go head to head with the Imperium and the Seps. It's just that the Loyalists and those cut off are not aware of each other until the storm clears.

Roight.

Unfortunately, the Seps still have to somehow develop an anti-Daemon force on their own.

Exactly, the whole thing is caused by Chaos because they know they have to divide the Imperium or else they won't be able to hold their own.

I'm sick of looking at that empty slot, and we have uneven factions anyway, so can I just move the Ogre Legion to XIX?

No, we've 21 again with SepMech's Commies.

Well, we certainly have an array of psyker Primarchs to do it, although that would also have been a good job for the man who helped invent the Grey Knights. Amusingly enough.

I don't really see the Malcador thing. The revs/seps wouldn't need him to lead their movement, and being Malc as loyal as he was, I see it pretty difficult. Being the one that controls everything doesn't mean that he would go rogue at the first chance, and I don't see good reasons for him going rogue. Corrupt Terran politics? Wipe 'em out. Big E left for war business? Why, tho? It was his job to take care of everything while Empy was out. Too much power corrupting him? Empy would have guessed, and removed him from power before he could do anything.

I'm going with the angry legions subject. Going rogue because you want to control your claimed planets seems legit, and if they operated far away from Terra, it would be even reasonable.

>Maybe too late

Oh riiiiight.

Fucken commies fucken things up. It's all their fault, they caused WWII. Hear that Sepmech? You did Hitler.
True, but I forgot which separatist primarchs were psykers.

Also, the Iron Guard barely have anything.

Well, Emil's a Separatist now since that seemed... prudent. And a psyker.

Of the other Seps, I'm not sure who have Psyker Primarchs.

Might wanna move him there.

I changed the google doc days ago to have Emil officially Separatist.

I don't see it. You mean this one?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14hqd6RLLgvLdYCIoLCHhQkidgXIsKUzrugyWu6pthEM/edit#gid=1037930529

No, I changed the thing right on the primary sheet.

The other table should be correct now, too.

Query: Which sections of the galaxy do each faction control/are busy conguering?