"I mean I'm not telling you what you should play...

>"I mean I'm not telling you what you should play, I just don't think a woman as a frontline warrior is realistic or interesting. Why not make her a thief or some spellcaster instead?"
>"Anyway, I'm playing a kobold berserker out to prove the world he can beat the shit out of those supposedly bigger and stronger than him!"

I agree with you. Now go away and stop baiting.

What really bugs me in your example is the idea that playing a thief or a spellcaster somehow doesn't put said female character on the frontline.

Even if that female character is a thief or a spellcaster, SHE'S STILL ABOUT THREE TO FOUR SWORD LENGTHS AWAY FROM THE FRONTLINE!

It's a fucking dungeoncrawl group, not a fucking company of soldiers? The frontline is FUCKING EVERYWHERE! Playing a wizard or a rogue doesn't magically place you kilometers away from the frontline! Having a warrior doesn't magically stop your opponents from manoeuvring around, changing the location of the fronline!

I think the issue is less about women not fighting and more about women in heavy armor swinging huge weapons around.

It's fantasy

You're assuming that those lines would be said by the exact same person 7 out of 10 of the time. There are imbeciles, but I would think that most people would not double-think that fucking hard.

You sweet summer child.

I would think that they wouldn't expose their hypocrisy that easily. They would keep quiet or save their introduction for the next session, lest they damn themselves with their own foolishness.

A. They dressed like that because of the technology at the time.
B. They could afford to fight dressed like that because they used large shields and fought in a phalanx formation. Anyone who fights dressed like that and is not wielding a shield, or, god forbid, is not standing elbow-to-elbow with his/her comrades, is asking to have their arteries severed.
Full plate pretty much negates the necessity of a shield, and in an age where there is technology to produce full plate, armor like this is essentially obsolete.

Just give them -1 STR/CON. Maybe give them a persuasion bonus if female or whatever race they are. Could even go with intimidate if the bitch is all scarred and geared up. Stats are there for role play. You can be wise as fuck warrior that can barely hold a sword but can go for tactics and strategy.

If she only want's to be a stronk womyn dat don't need no man that throw a few encounters her way and make her play that role by charging into them and dying when they happen to be strong enough to just flick the sword from her hands.

>-1 STR/CON

Women are actually tougher than men, user.

That's idiotic; a PC is an individual. Sure, in general, females may be observed to have less strength or constitution, but that doesn't mean a player's PC is automatically weaker than her male counterparts.

Nice.

This is a complete myth.

Who do you think would win in a deathmatch: the average woman or a manlet?

There's your answer.

I know you don't want to hear this but depends on the setting. Normaly a female would need more exp to reach the same lvl of strenght a male can. Since you know that men need to grind less to encrease muscle mass. Constitution can be argued because i dont see how your muscles can help you stop a sword if the fucker got trough your armour. And sure if you spread stats you can have a lot of str as female. That's why i proposed a penalty. Because if not someone can be a gnoll or orc spellcaster with the same amount of int/cha as a human or an elf.

What the fuck is "manlet"?

a manlet, easily

It's a term Veeky Forums made up for short men.

Short, as in like five 5', but otherwise average?

Would probably win.

>implying you can grind exp and level up in real life

Please tell me you're playing a bit.

You're boring and the thread you want to start is boring.

Any person who gets triggered by characters whose physical capabilities are unrealistic in a setting with giants, dragons, hydra, griffins, trolls, or similar monstrous creatures is either trying to push an agenda or is deep on the spectrum. In either case, they'll make any game they're a part of worse, and they should be removed as soon as they voice their complaint.

This is Veeky Forums, threads are only as boring as we want them to be. If you want an interesting thread, derail it and make it so. You are no longer a passive observer, you are part of the funpost dillemma!

Pretty sure it was supposed to be specifically for short men that attempt to compensate the low self esteem brought on from their height by becoming a ball of muscle.

As all insults, it eventually degraded into a general concept.

That's old Veeky Forums, which had quality material and quality posters to work with. You're on new Veeky Forums, which has shit and shitposters to work with.

Short as in 5'10 and under. Honestly anything under 6' is literally woman height and you should just start taking HRT.

This is always a shitty argument: bringing up all manner of magic and fantasy creatures as an evidence to why the more down-to-earth things are allowed to be unrealistic is a false equivelancy.

We don't have any of these things in the real world at all, so the threshold for what we can accept is much higher than with, say, a petite moe girl in thick fullplate swinging around a battleaxe with blades the size of her head. Because we can in theory see a girl like that attempt such a feat in the real world, and know it wouldn't work.

...

Lurk Moar

Even if you're the same size as a woman, you still have more muscle to work with.

>Implying that that Gyms aren't Str and Con exp farming locations.

You can be the change you want to see, or keep whining and be part of the problem. Choose.

So I can rock into any game you're in with a male character that explicitly has a two foot cock and a backstory that mentions it repeatedly and you'd defend me vigorously?

Good to know that's entirely true!

>be the change you want to see

Didn't work for America. Didn't work for economic-left idealism. Didn't work for the old internet. Why the living fuck should I expect it to work for the ruins of Veeky Forums?

>the dm has issues with the players character creation

just go write yourself a short story and fuck off you literal nigger. WORST KIND OF DM

We can extrapolate based on existing biological principles, though. In the real world anything with the mass of a lion would be incapable of flight, anything with the mass of an elephant would have to be a quadruped, and even creatures that can regenerate limbs have to spend months regrowing them. Which means fantasy settings clearly have different laws of biology than real world ones.

So if a giant can stand despite a similarly sized human collapsing, or if a dragon or griffin can fly despite its wings being absolutely unable to lift its mass, why can't a girl run around in full plate swinging a battle axe the size of her head?

Jesus fucking Christ, humans have genetic variation! Sure, most women can't build muscle as easily as men, but some small number can! Some people are just mutant genetic abnormalities!

You wouldn't happen to have the peasant version of that image would you?

>implying those two things have ever been said by the same person

>Didn't work for America
Tell me, what did the average American voter do other than be pleased with mediocrity and do nothing about confirmed corruption because they were too busy with their bread and games? They only care if the MSM has an outrage over it. The Americans were whipped by their media masters into a frenzy against their oldest allies in 2003, but when it turned out those "cheese eating surrender monkeys" aren't totally retarded, there wasn't a single peep. Responsible citizens would demand that someone would be dragged to court for this downright forging of evidence (one small vial, remember?).

>Didn't work for economic-left idealism.
Marxism and al its toxic offshoots are poison. The only change it results in are political correctness, or in its more extreme forms the gulags.

>Didn't work for the old internet.
U wot lad?

>Playing a wizard or a rogue doesn't magically place you kilometers away from the frontline!
Apparently I've been playing Wizard wrong.

D&D isn't a game. It's autism given licence to dwell and fester within the flesh of man.

Yep, talk shit about shit you know nothing about while saying I can "be the difference" from shitposting. Good job, 10/10, sure convinced me.

Your pathetic inability to suspend your disbelief isn't going to restrict my games. Learn to be less autistic.

But if you really start to think scientifically, you'll be going down on a road with no end.

Nevermind that muscle doesn't mean jackshit in fights.

Lilly the daughter of Philip the grand fencing master will easily win from Pete the half-ogre ruffian.

Doesn't matter how hard you can swing a sword if your opponent parries. Doesn't matter how hard you can swing a sword if your opponent counters and easily slides their sword alongside your mountaincleaving swing into your eye socket.

Yeah, sure, but a certain amount of strength is still required to be able to lift the sword at all.

No one's restricting your games.

They're just calling them shitty.

Which they probably are.

Actually there gets a point where the force from the blow means that it CAN'T be parried, but that's excessive amounts.

>Nevermind that muscle doesn't mean jackshit in fights.

Well, obviously, you've never been in a fight before. And it's just adorable you think that.

By that point you stop talking about humanoids and begin talking about crocodiles, elephants, whales, dinosaurs, etc.

Newsflash, jamming 50 needles of steroids in your ass won't save you if you can't properly aim your fists into the face of your opponent.

Is it stupid and unrealistic to play a warrior woman in plate armor and with a greatsword? Probably not: even real world had examples of these.

Should it be normal, though? Should there be a gender equality going on in the guard barracks? Should warrior women be as commonplace, and as ordinary, as they often are in the modern media? Surely not.

And not because it's unrealistic, or because it would break someone's suspension of disbelief. But rather because it's boring.

It's a situation brought up by those who think "equality" means women should be going out there fighting just as much as the men. And all that does is turn your adventuring women into men, even disregarding all the realism issue that'd claim they would also be slightly worse at being men. It makes it look like the only way you can contribute to a story is by beating the shit out of a lot of people.

Why not have women do something else instead? Why not have them be priests and wizards more often than warriors - and why not have the few women that choose to be warriors anyway (or men that decide to learn magic) gain attention, mostly negative, for their choice, adding a new roleplaying element? Why not make the choice of genders something that actually matters, something that adds depth to the game and the campaign world?

Or shall we just keep on arguing about realism and strength? I guess that works too.

Yeah, but grabs/hugs/tackles/bodyblows make this pretty fucking irrelevant.

Some uppity cunt hits a big cunt repeatedly? The big cunt grabs the small cunt-- Because it turns out someone with a big reach and big hands and big digits is still fast enough comparitively that the "big" matters more than the "fast"-- lifts them like six fucking inches, tilts them slightly, and drops them HARD. And the fight's fucking over.

Moreover, this is completely ignoring that seperating DEX/STR in the first place is completely fucking retarded. Muscles make you move faster until you hit a really hard to hit limit. Ever seen a professional boxer? Ever seen a professional boxer's footwork? Go youtube that shit then shut the fuck up.

Problem, if you've been hit with a melee weapon once, you're dead, dying or already functioning on half capacity because you're leaking vital fluids, or using one hand to stop leaking vital fluids.

And fuck off with your DEX bullshit. You can be the most dextrous person in the world, but if you've never had any swordfighting training, you're still going to get gutted like a pig.

Buddy, I lived for seven years with someone who would say something, and then claim they never said it in the NEXT SENTENCE THEY SAID when it turned out they were wrong. To the point of denying a recording of them doing this was real.

Yes, people can and will be that blatant.

I like GRRM's and Kentaro Miura's take on it.

That way, when you see a girl or woman with a weapon, you know shit's going down. This isn't some D&D Dungeonpunk Medieval America where everything is in some kind of meta-magical place that runs on cartoon logic, you know what I mean?

>Is it stupid and unrealistic to play a warrior woman
Yes.
>B-But this one obscure meme-turned-legend from some 5th century scroll!
Yeah, and we had some guy using a fucking claymore in WW2. Doesn't mean trying to play a knight in fullplate during the Battle of Kursk doesn't make you a retard.

>swordfighting training
>implying there was one kind

Yeah, I'd actually take my bets on a full plate clad motherfucker with minimal training over someone that'd learned to use a rapier to gut people in duels over and over.

>We should think scientifically!
>B-But only when it agrees with me, otherwise you're thinking too much into it!

Oh, sure. I mean when women warriors are special, they really -are- special: they don't show up often at all, turn heads when they do, but you don't want to get in one's way because you know they've had to work hard to get to where they stand.

>This isn't some D&D Dungeonpunk Medieval America where everything is in some kind of meta-magical place that runs on cartoon logic, you know what I mean?

I mean I'm on your side regarding this specific debate but I don't know what you mean and I honestly think you've been exposed to more stupid arguments on the internets about RPG systems than games in play themsleves.

Never fight an old warrior or trust a young mage, for one knows what he does and the other does not.

And if you don't bet on the woman in full plate with a longsword against a big and tall ball of muscle with a rapier, you're stupid as shit.
Don't bring armor into this, dipshit. It's on a different league entirely.

>Wanting to play anything other than a Sikh Warrior
I guess if you want to actually lose on occasion.

Nigga, armor might be light by the standards most folks are thinking of, but if you've walked a decent distance with a weight training vest or a suit of rec chainmail on, you'd damn well know that strength-- or at least stamina-- and armor were conflated for a reason.

You can't do *shit* after walking too long with even a slight burden. It's like the old adage about long distance running, where an ounce at the start is a pound by the finish.

>Select all images with suits

...Nigga, I ain't that classy, I'm arguing with a cunt on the internet. Fuck you, robot.

And it has NOTHING to do with the discussion.
OF FUCKING COURSE someone in full plate is gonna wreck someone who got nothing, that's not a big scoop.

But someone who never wielded a sword in life, and who isn't wearing armor, is gonna get wrecked by someone who has actual training with a sword. The strenght is relevant once you actually know how to wield correctly the fucking weapon.

I know I have but fuck it's deep lost in my image folder
if you don't mind waiting a bit I will find it

I don't mind waitin mang, I fuckin love that pic. I thought for sure I already had it, but I guess not.

>Completely ignoring half the argument

What'd I expect from someone defending women fighting in combat, lol.

>James Lusted
Apparently.

this what append when you're too lazy to rename your files

Bless you mate, your a cool guy.

>Moving the goalpost over and over again
What I expected too, "lol"

-4 Str is a lot to overcome

If you are a woman you are objectively shit. If you are under six feet tall you are a manlet and should be put to the torch. The only exception is dwarfbros.

I have spoken.

As much as I like to stress how different women are to men, I'm not this autistic. I mean, realistically a women trained in military combat would outclass a man who's not. Although maybe not in physical strength, but most certainly technique which I find is more important.

School let out early this year, huh?

are you litterally comparing woman to a different race? Jesus christ user did you at least get to hold hand with a girl once?

>comparing shields to armor and implying they can replace each other.
So you get all your knowledge from video games I presume?

As opposed to your vast real-world experience with armor and shields

elves have -2 str
women have -4 str

So yes?

The myths and legends that form the basis of magic and fantasy creatures also have people performing all sorts of physical feats that are not realistic, you're just choosing to arbitrarily ignore or disregard it for some reason.
I mean you're literally pulling this "down to earth" category straight out of your ass and using it to mean whatever you personally want.

Your inability to conceive of things that can be found throughout myth and media is more a personal issue of yours, perhaps of the autism spectrum.

Sure, but if we're playing FATAL then don't forget to roll for anal circumference too!

I impose a -4 Str and +4 Cha stat change on females of races with sexual dimorphism favoring physicality in males, and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

Also, my humans have stat caps of 18 which cannot be exceeded naturally. This means that females can easily reach 18 Charisma but cannot ever exceed 14 Strength naturally, shifting females into "party face" or spellcaster roles.

This has never been a problem, and if you play with non-tumblrites literally nobody cares, and it opens up room for diverse class/race/sex roles. The party tends to be wary around higher leveled female fighters, because their high level implies they're either sporting powerful magic items or have hidden support that outweighs any power that 2 Str mod might give them.

You are all fucking idiots.
A male Olympic fencer will wrek a female one every fucking time.
They are better at spacial awareness and shit.

DEAL WITH IT

So your argument is that a trained swordsman will beat a thug with a strength advantage. Well duh. But on equal skill levels muscle DOES change things, so you're a fucking retard. Muscle means things in fights, skill ALSO means something in fights. It's not SKILL EXISTS THEREFORE MUSCLE REDUNDANT, it's a combination of both increasing your overall potential. You could be the best master swordsman in the world, but if you don't have the physical strength or endurance to actually parry or deflect that "mountaincleaving" swing it's gonna go through your face or break your arms.

> olympic fencing being worth shit

But if you want to play games like that, I can think of two champion swordswomen who were undefeated by a bevy of male challengers, La Jaguarina/Ella Hattan, and Julie d'Aubigny/La Maupin.

Now waiting for you to explain why they 'don't count'

>that fat sack of shit beating anyone
Carnival tricks from the 1800s doesn't mean shit son.
Just like andy Kauffman being undefeated by putting plants in the crowd.

THIS. We all know that women don't make good soldiers, but we also know that fairies and giants couldn't exist in real life. It's okay to not follow reality in fantasy games.

>Carnival tricks from the 1800s doesn't mean shit son.
And on cue: I-i-it doesn't count!

Even though she was recorded as having fought against multiple US soldiers during an era when fencing was a prime sport in the United States military and beat all of them, and was trained by one of the recognized greatest fencers in America up until that point, its just c-c-c-carnival tricks!

reminder if things were equal there wouldn't be different gendered leagues in any sports.

>everything that's not my opinion is f-f-f-fake!

shouldn't you be on /x/ arguing that the earth is flat?

So the guy that trained her never beat her?
I bet you think bruce lee would be undefeated in the UFC in 2017 as well.

>So the guy that trained her never beat her?
Kid, coaches don't usually challenge their students to duels. It's not how things are done.

But keep displaying your ignorance.

Incredible skill will typically offset any direct physical advantage that an opponent might have, ESPECIALLY for a low-strength, high-risk fighting style like fencing.

It is biological fact that males are typically about 40-60% stronger than women in the upper body due to muscle density. It is also biological fact that men have superior spacial awareness as a result of sexual dimorphism and hundreds of thousands of years of genetic adaptation towards hunting and physicality.

In reality, there isn't much difference between Strength, Constitution and Dexterity, and they can't really be categorized as such. For a well-balanced (meaning a regular person, not a super-massive bodybuilder), Strength means both power and speed, and constitution as a measure of physical health isn't realistic. Consrtitution would have no equivalent in real life, except maybe overall health, which would be tied into both physical fitness and absence of illness.

Your example of your female fencer would be like comparing a 20th level fighter to a 5th level fighter. She may only have 14 Str compared to the dude's 18 Str, but when her BAB is 20 and his BAB is 5, of course she'll outwin him in duels based on merit of her skill.

So how's YOUR HRT coming along, miss?

>opinion
learn some physiology.
Show me one female who holds records over males in current fucking history where things were recorded accurately.
Any women have the world record in deadlifts? Squats (since women are lower body dominant)? boxing? even SHOOTING?

nope.
Even roided out women can't train with just armature men.
Sure SOME women can beat SOME men, but at high levels a man will always out perform a woman at any sport.

>ignorance
You are so fucking dumb it's not even funny