Warhammer is expen-

>I will buy this car in white or silver, and automatic so that it is worth more when I sell it, versus getting the color I want and manual so I can enjoy it

Brikwars m8.

Show a good starter set like Hail Caesar's.

>both of armies aren't even 500pts

I wonder how much I could get for them.
Maybe a riptide and some suits?

>Lego prices
they have gone way out of hand.

Also warhammer and minigames aren't expensive once you get (((used))) to mtg's prices.

Dude realx, we will take care of sci-fi tabletop

I want warpath though.

Modern lego bricks aren't as strong as they once were.

Not even close.

Couldn't care less about some boring ass romans with ugly, bumpy, tiny ass mugs.

Historicals will never have the same audience that fantasy/sci-fi games have, and thats for the best. Historical's are boring, and stifle creativity. This isn't even going into how awful most historical mini's look.

I guarantee from sheer fun factor, I will get more fun out of those Lego's than those Mins.

>brickwars

Game, Set, and Match

Lego being expensive doesn't stop warhammer from being expensive.

Also the lego process is more fun tbph.

>Historicals will never have the same audience that fantasy/sci-fi games have
Thanks god, we don't need tumblrinas and redditors

And water is wet. What the fuck else is new.

What is this /toy/ thread doing here?

This lego set has 1329 pieces. How many pieces your 40k set has? That's right, bitch, keep crying.

They're actually relatively cheaper now because their process is more efficient (and I believe they make a bit more on licensing). Still high-end toys so far as pricing goes, but better than they were.

I'm pretty sure that attitude towards history is why western society is going down the toilet. Those who do not care for History are doomed to let everything go to shit.

Lego's inflation adjusted price per brick has stayed almost perfectly consistent over it's entire existence
The trick is that modern sets tend to have way more detail and way more bricks than before

The old bionicles are virtually unbreakable, in a stress test I had to use a wrench finally to rip apart one of the socket pieces.

Just three generations later the plastic is so weak I can not only snap it with my hands, but it breaks if you insert a ball into the socket multiple times, meaning the bionicle in question doesn't survive multiple assemblies.

Good, and we don't need elitest snobs and arm-chair historians telling us our games are childish and over priced, and how terrible we are for not painting our mini's the correct shade of German camouflage.

I have no problem with history; Just historicals. Specifically, Historical's fanbase, which consists of a bunch of thin-skinned, pissy fops who think Historicals are the be all, end all of wargames.

>historicals and appropriate proportions are bad
Wew.

>no codex bloat
>many available rule sets for several periods
>miniatures are very affordable
>no IP locked fantasy races
>can be used in lord of the rings easily
>a wealth of color palettes and references to look up while painting
>naval, air, and land
>cover several periods of human history
They kind of are.

>8+ age rating
>our games aren't childish
>100$ for 3 models
>our games aren't overpriced

I find the charge that Historicals stifle creativity weird when virtually every sci-fi or fantasy wargame is based on real world history because that's literally the only frame of reference for anything the human race has. Almost everything is X or Y in Space or Y or X in a fantasy world.

Also Human History is as deep as all the oceans on Earth. Mankind has been warring with itself since we first learned how to shake a spear. There's historical wargames for every continent, culture and creed that has ever existed. Here's more variation in Historical Wargaming than all the sci-fi and fantasy wargames put together.

>GW: WE ARE TRUESCALE NOW!
>Still looks like manlets in exosuits
Git gud bongs

>Pic related
>Good proportions
Wew lad.

>no codex bloat because the amount of ruleset bloat makes a arguement out of what system you play, rather than what you play within it
>Miniatures are all affordable, because they're all shit anyways.
>History locked miniatures, with no variation; Thus, its impossible to add anything new
>Says Historicals are superior, but shills for fantasy/GW anyways
>A wealth of color palettes that already exist, and are all dull shades; now with the added bonus of being made fun if your off by a hexidecimal on the color wheel/have a color scheme that doesn't exist.
>Naval, Air, Land, AND Space.
>Coveral thousands of years of history, beyond the earth and back

Well?

>History locked miniatures, with no variation; Thus, its impossible to add anything new

Well, you could try and start WWIII so we can get new variations.

at least legos are fun to play with

>I find the charge that Historicals stifle creativity weird

Thats when you create imagi-nations.

>Not creating IRL imagi-nations.
Free Sealand.

>Add anything new
M8, there's more variation in the arsenals of the second world war than you'd find in all the codexes combined.

You know, calling another game and setting Childish, is only proving me right about how Historical Wargamers look down on every one else.

Besides, you get what you pay for; Specifically, shitty lumps of metal.

>legos

>legoeses

Being a child is living in a fantasy world. Being an adult is living in the real world. Historicals happened, fantasy and sci-fi didn't and hasn't.

Thats 15mm m8, you don't need extreme amounts of detail at that scale.

>they're shit because I said so
>GW's mutant men look better to me
>implying lotr isn't the best set of rules GW put out
>implying space battles play different than land or air in their execution
>lacks the imagination to relieve the crusades or the American war of independence because there's not enough Ikea space marines
>says historicals are bad and stifle creativity when most people play an established space marine chapter or other such faction already stablished in their lore and stick to it, colors and all, despite them having less options than your given ancient Summerian city-state who are so ancient you can make shit up as long as it makes some degree of sense

So, what your saying is, Historicals encourage creativity when people decide NOT to play historicals, and make something new? My god, historicals are great!

That aside, being serious, Historicals aren't that much of a problem. Its the idiots that are attracted to them, and the lack of quality models, along with how basic some of the rule sets are. You can only change so much about a bunch of guys stabbing each other with sticks.

you first buddy; but I'm sure you'll be excited to buy all those WW3 miniatures when you get back.

It's kinda funny how you assume I'm some 40k fanboy. But even than, factoring in all the different FW tanks and variants of the Imperium, than I wouldn't be surprised if it neared at least half. Toss in the rest of the big Sci-fi games and it would roughly even out.

You know what they say about men who live in glass houses.

Who won't want to refight the storming of Pyongyang by the armies of President Trump and co?

Are you seriously claiming that there is no creativity in the whole span of Human History?

user, not looking like a deformed mutant with a fist the size of your skull is a benefit, not a detriment.
Also by sheer weight alone the different type of weapons and formations used by the men of old outweigh the made up ones that were based on them anyways.
It all boils down to history vs made up history, because I guarantee you no space wolf player will paint his men hard gay punk and replace their bolters with penises and make a Freddie Mercury banner with chapter master liberache. Because that would be dark angels but I digress.

-sive.
Why did you post two overly expensive things?
What are you trying to say?

>As a child, you idolize fantasy
>As a adult, you realize Historicals make more sense

Your arguement is a fucking meme. And so what? At the end if the day, it's still grown men playing with wee metal men. The only difference is that one happened, and the other might or could have happened. Unless what your saying is, is that if your playing the canon loser, you surrender even if you win, and vice versa.

Still an excuse; take a look at some of the Epic Armageddon shit from back in the day, or stuff like DZC or that not-epic studio with the contemptors. Really makes you wonder how 8mm stuff looks better than 15mm.

>Getting mad that somebody else has an opinion in a debate
>Once again assuming that I'm a 40k fanboy, and not just a general fan of sci-fi, with stuff like Infinity.
>Le 40kek assumption; But hey, you need imagination to read a book and visualize something that has hundreds of thousands of pieces of art/books dedicated it.
>Le 40kek assumption; But hey, I'm sure EVERYBODY plays Ultramarines, etc. Lets also ignore the fact that its okay when we make bullshit up, but when you do it, its childish and stupid.

That Barnes and Noble has anime figurines.
I don't get it.

Two products with completely different puposes and target consumers both being high end in their respective markets. The problem is that that lego set not only contains 1329 pieces some being quite rare (some people care about this bullshit) but is a complete experience. And once the buyer of the lego set gets tired of it he can build other shit with it. That 40k starter set on the other hand gives you at a discount price, only a fraction of the warhammer experice, and when you get tired of it you will have spend hundreds more with other minis and paint.
I am seriously hoping for GW to do the right thing and lower the prices if 8th eddition becomes a hit. So that new players can come to the hobby.

>take a look at some of the Epic Armageddon shit from back in the day, or stuff like DZC or that not-epic studio with the contemptors. Really makes you wonder how 8mm stuff looks better than 15mm

This stuff is 6mm and looks better than any of the stuff mentioned above. A lot of it comes down to how you paint models and how they're supposed to be observed. Those models would look good on a table with a few dozen others.

You're the one saying bloated midgets are aesthetically pleasing, your eye cannot be trusted.
Next you're saying that flufffags that tailor their army to the lore of the army they play do not exist. From the myriad of marine armies that are about a single chapter or one of the many IG regiments that are also well documented.
Or let's go to fantasy for a moment, are you telling me people didn't fashion their men after an established group with their own heraldry and colors?
That sounds disingenuous.

At least compare it to another miniatures game's two player starter. This is a troll thread anyways so there is no need to bother.
>Historicals are boring
I will never understand this sentiment.

People who think what humans did in the past is uninteresting and uncreative.

It's a shame this thread is so adversarial, there are definitely merits to both fantasy/sci fi and historicals.

Speaking of glass houses, funny how fantasy 8mm STILL looks better than your shitty 15mm. Especially since what you posted is almost 30 years old.

See you there m8!
No, but I am criticizing the superiority complex most histotical players have over other gamers, and a serious lack of creativity on their part.
If you want to get technical user, the amount of fiction recorded and created by humanity easily out-weighs the actual amount of history we have created. Especially considering how much of it has been derived from history. But, is that historicals? Than, by definition, isn't every game based off of human history a historical? Simply because its based off humaniy's history?

Of course, you assume all non-historical games to 40k as well though; Never mind any other games. So why bother even?

>Speaking of glass houses, funny how fantasy 8mm STILL looks better than your shitty 15mm. Especially since what you posted is almost 30 years old

Come on man, this JUST got posted

I like both but there are very few games that focus on the eras of history that I enjoy studying and I sincerely doubt my ability to get anyone in my store to play a historical game that isn't Flames of War or Bolt Action. I have nothing against those games, mind, but I'd like to see some more variety.

Shit those look good.

I'm assuming you've already hit up /hwg/ for this right?

I lurk there from time to time but I'm not what you'd call a dedicated poster.

Those are just blobs.
As to why 40k (and space marines too, let's just cover that so you have no hole left to scurry back to)?
The most popular miniatures game that isn't x-wing, where half of the armies are dudes in power armor, and there's the Horus cucking Heresy that's nothing but space marines fighting space marines and that's doing well despite being forge world? It seems a fair bet that someone that plays miniatures is going to be a 40k player, and statistically speaking most people are going to be playing space marines. Thus the assumption.
Now, tell me what's the difference between someone making a Byzantine before the fall army vs someone doing thousand sons? Other than the money.
Both have to stick to their colors and certain ways of playing.
Both have to be built in a certain way, shooty khorne armies are a pipe dream no one had.
Both have a written history and how they usually fight.
Both have set markings, you can't just give your thousand sons the mark of Nurgle and have a slaneeshi champion in there.

Wow! And how amazing is that they beat 30 year old models!

Of course, pic related is also a 6mm model. So I suppose its not all that much of a surprise that newer mini's are better, is it?

You are right about presentation and paint jobs as well. Anything can look fantastic from a good paint job.

darkeststargames.com/6mm-dark-star-sci-fi-range--federation.html

The two also perform fundamentally different functions. The painting and customization of warhammer minis is part of the point; a lot of people enjoy the crafts process, which is far more pronounced than in Lego. Others enjoy the game options associated.

Yeah man, I know that 6mm sci fi can look good, I collect both historicals and sci fi in that scale.

I just object to your weird partisan approach to miniatures. Its not like production methods are limited to either historical or non-historical.

Historical is a representation of reality, sci-fi can be whatever shit someone dreams up. So in that sense with sci-fi there is no limit, and any batshit crazy shit can pass without having to look like it could really exist.

Your the mentally defecient one who thinks anything that's not Historical is 40k, so clearly your opinion is worthless.
Next, your assuming that the majority of fluff-fags tailor their army to pre-existing ones; I wont say there aren't any what so ever, but I wont say that their the majority either.
And Fantasy has the oppertunity of having different lords, nobles, and other minor characters that allow people to come up with their own unique heraldry and colors to mix with the pre-existing ones.
I will rescined that statement;
The vast majority of Historical players are boring and uninteresting, while also being self righteous, ego stroking grognards.

When you show me a Historical minu that beats pic related, we might actually have an arguement.

And? That doesn't mean its not a embarassment that older, smaller miniatures have better details than newer, larger ones.

I will admit that the ones posted are rather spiffy, although I would love to see what the creator could do when not limited to a pre-existing design.

When pic related becomes something real and not just someone's imagination gone wild, then it might be interesting. As is real life and the real world beats any made-up shit. You should come join us in the real world someday.

You're saying we know the name of every Augustus, Jachmed, and Tallaheim that led soldiers in all of human history as well as their heraldry?
Better share that info with the rest of mankind.

Why are people fighting over which flavor of war game is better...?

They're fighting over whether Historical Wargames are creative-stifling shit or not.

At the end of the day it comes down to personal taste, just like this entire thread.

What creativity are they stifling though.

They're both made by companies and then we just build/paint them.

You can't just paint your green dragoons wrong user.
You also cannot paint your Akkadians any color other than fabulous.

I still don't understand how they're stifling.

If you want to re-enact an army from days of yore, you play historical.

If you want to play a game of /your dudes/ you play something else.

It's just chocolate and vanilla but one has the potential to involve a lot of original building.

It's a joke, that's why those Patriot dragoons with that name were posted.

You know GW got bought by Americans years ago, right?

>Warhammer is cheaper than collecting figma's or 3P Transformers

What the fuck is going on here?

That explains AoS a lot.

This; this so much. While I can appreciate a well made model, as shown and argued for in:
I cannot deny that Sci-fi is so much better, since it would allow the sculptor so much more room to really dig in, and create to their hearts desires. Imagine what they could make, when not bound to history? They can make competent models, nay, oustanding models, but in the end; they already exist. I want something new.

Well, for starters, one is a army of psychic super men, so directly off the bat, we have a variety of different tactics, organizations, strategy's and tools available to one.

But, in the end, I suppose there is no real difference from a collectors point of view; they are both pre-existing organizations, both with restrictions. The difference lies in the particularity if their origin, and what that means; The Byzantines are, in many ways, similiar to other armies, and based in reality. They play by the same rules as any other historical game. To give them something else, or something new is impossible.

The Thousand sons are different in how they came to be. They were created in fiction; thus, the possibilities if them are endless. They can have new, exciting, interesting additions to them, like pyschic controlled robots, or different psychic cults. These are totally new and radical units, that can be created.

Imagine trying to add new units to that Byzantine army; Like, armored medieval knights, or some sort of new addition, or something along those lines that was not originally part of the byzantines. Nobody would take it, or buy it, since it "wasnt canon" per say, as it didn't exist in real life.

On the subject of miniatures games, $160 of X-Wing is almost collector status. $30 for a starter box and $130 worth of expansions will set you right up with one faction, and be happily playable with two or all three.

>If you want to play a game of /your dudes/ you play something else.

You can still play historicals if you want /your dudes/ most of historys wars are large enough to allow that.

Thats all without bringing up the topic of Imagi-nations.

Okay so it's really just fightan for the sake of fightan. Just wanted to be clear.

You know, your entire speal could be directed at wargaming as a whole, right? You realize your just playing war with tiny little men? What right do you have to talk about "The real World"?

So that automatically allows you to make up bullshit? Just because we don't know sonething, you can go ahead and make up crap? That's not history than, thats just as much fiction as anything I've posted, only more based in reality.

>I cannot deny that Sci-fi is so much better, since it would allow the sculptor so much more room to really dig in, and create to their hearts desires

That's better for the sculptor, not sure how its any better for you though.

Yes you're only limited by your imagination and current sculpting/manufacturing processes but thats not an inherently good or superior thing.

It's entirely your personal taste user, there is nothing inherently better in sci fi miniatures than in real world historicals. You just prefer certain sci-fi aesthetics.

Here's the question, why would you want to add stuff that never existed? That would be like arming all the Confederates with AK47s so you can ensure the South wins the Civil war and the Niggers remain slaves forevermore. Or giving Hitler Leopard tanks so the Nazis win. That sort of thing is a lit leery and a bit too /pol/ for my tastes.

With Historicals, it's all about recreating the past. It's not really that different from reading a History book. You're recreating actual events on a tabletop with models. You're putting yourself in the boots of Alexander the Great, Napoleon or Patton. You get to march with the Army of Northern Virginia, or ride with the Panzers across Russia. In a small way you get to live the past. That is what's most attractive about it. You get in a small way to be a part of a lost world that once existed but is long gone.

With Sci-Fi or fantasy it's a bit like making middle earth. You're creating your own little world utterly divorced from reality. You choose what is real and what isn't. It's closer to Dungeons and Dragons than real life. You are the DM of your own little world. it has its own attractions, but it's not real and never will be, while with Historics it did happen. These armies existed. There were once human beings who lived and fought those battles, whereas no man will ever fight a dragon or an alien in our lifetimes.

The byzantine faction is destroyed, it would be like making new units for the empire of fantasy.
Does not stop you from playing earlier and saying they hired some mercenary forces that are unorthodox.
At the end of the day the thousand sons are just as constricted within their own canon as the byzantines were to the own, sure they can have demons or hell machines and those stupid fucking disks but only of a certain type.
notice that I never hated on fantasy, just GW's shit sculpts. Ork player

What if I told you that people who play historical miniatures games also like to make scenarios that never existed, like if the IJN attack on Pearl Harbour was a pitched battle with the USN instead of a surprise attack.

Same way you have to make shit up from a codex that makes sense for your faction in 40k you have to make shit up for your historical army that makes sense for them.
Because we don't know everything about the ancient world. We don't know where all the battles were and sometimes we only have an idea of how both sides fought.
Often times accounts can be "heathen men raided across the sheppe" tier of absolutely nothing, and then we don't even know what went on to happen to the victors.
What the hell happened to the guy that stopped Boudica anyways?

Fun fucking game too, just avoid modern competitive list building and take what looks cool.

If the US had been forewarned that the Japanese were coming, then that could have happened. History is endless series of might-has-beens, and every battle is one of those. If they weren't then what would be the point? You'd just be simulating events with a foregone conclusion. You'd refight Ia Drang knowing the Vietnam player has to lose, or fight the Bugle knowing the German player has to run out of fuel on turn 12. And there is no fun with that.

Then again, technically that would be the same with any sci-fi or fantasy. You'd refight prospero but the Thousand Sons player has to lose by turn 8. Or refight Helms Deep with the uruks automatically losing at the end because that's what happened.

That argument falls completely flat if the losers win or the winners lose. If you follow that logic, you aren't playing a game at all, because any deviation from actual history would be counter to the idea of the activity. You're enacting a stop motion play of events, but without any cameras or audience.

And as I said, the exact same happens with Sci-Fi or Fantasy. Why refight Isstvan III if we know the loyalists lose in the end?