MTG Standard General - /mtgsg/

p.s: I think i would like to play green

I'm trying to do the same thing dude.

Cryptbreaker, Relentless Dead, Diregraf Colossus and Dark Salvation are all gonna start coming down in price soon but only because the Zendikar and Shadows over Innistrad blocks are gonna be rotating out in September.

So, we've gotta try and find something else to support Dread Wanderer, Lord of the Accursed, Doomed Dissenter, Plague Belcher, Lilianna's Mastery and Fatal Push.

Wandering Servant is pretty cool but its the only deviation from a monoblack zombie deck and forces you to buy hybrid lands.

they're rotating that soon?

Is it even worth it to get back into standard at this point? I dropped out of standard in SOI and have been playing EDH primarly, i would like to get some cards together and play at my LGS again, any viable budget decks worth checking out?

Just don't buy into Marvel or Gideon. They are both likely to be banned in 2 months.

Crypt Breaker is literally what makes the deck good.

How's it going? I pulled Neheb in my first pack but I just don't see Minotaurs being all that versatile.

I can't find any threads online about bg cryptolite, even though it made top 8 at the pt. Need help on a sideboard or maybe changes to the mainboard due to meta

I hate you for playing that cancer...
Lost to a kid with a blue black cycler using fetid pool,censor, as cycle power fatal push, and utilizing gearhulk for the vs shit he is.

Depends. Honestly I'd say playing a limited format is a better way to get into the game (and a draft is usually only like 10-15 bucks, and you keep the cards you pull or sell them if they're valuable and you want to go infinite); if you netdeck a standard deck it will be a fair amount more if you want it to be good, and you'll have to learn to pilot it.

I'm working on one as well. I splashed white to get cast out and fumigate, and to have some more sideboard options

As far as synergies go, I think drake haven is a better win con than faith of the devoted (unless you are more of a cycle-control style and less combo-y), even without annointed procession. Maybe I'm wrong on that though.

Either way you need some dudes on board at some point and some sweepers, to stablize you against aggro/midrange. I run 2x archfiend of ifnir as a clock and control engine after turn 5, turn 4 i have the black expertise card and turn 5 I have fumigate to stabilize.

I haven't played a game with shadowstorm vizer but that might be an option to be more aggresive. Alternatively you can just stall and cycle and then cast second sun twice, I saw a guy at LGS run a UBG cycle/control/second sun deck and it seemed neat, if gimmicky.

I already have cryptbreakers because I played R/B zombies for a while. I'm fine with 20 dollars for a playset of diregrafs but not 70 for a playset of mythics that will fall out of flavor.

As I understand it, mono-b is more aggressive while B/W packs more removal and can square against midrange better. I know at my LGS more people are trying to run control decks geared for aggro, so I'll probably brew B/W.

Standard is dead for sure
>4 mana wrath coming out
If marvel isn't banned standard actually will become a 1 deck format.

You can probably jam a couple of rhonases, some bristling hydras, a couple honored hydras, some channeler initiates and exemplars of strength etc and play mouth to feed and have a deck that will just run over some other decks.

Duskwatch Recruiter is pretty good. Manglehorn is probably necessary if people are playing Whirler Virtuoso and Marvel. Verdurous Gearhulk is nuts.

It's not super technical or fancy or clever but people only have like 26 life in standard and you can just fuck 'em up.

Who playing the new perspectives meme deck here?

Anyone use Fateful Showdown as the win con?

Would love some assistance with an amonkhet only W/R embalm deck.
Personally need help with sideboard, I would love some hazoret support, but not sure, tormenting voice, anointed procession, an extra sweltering suns, insult//injury?

do you have a list? I was thinking about what the combo would be - dump hand somehow, use shadow of grave to pull it back, and then fateful showdown for like 14+ or something; but how do I get to that 6 mana (or more, depending; maybe you go for an 8 mana combo and shadow of the grave twice) combo + new perspectives + not die?

>tfw

what am I seeing here

All anons answers to ulamog were exiled by ulamog, and the only counterspell user had in hand does not work against ulamog.

What's this about a wrath?

New card from Hour of Devastation. Creatures lose indestructible, destroy all creatures.
4 CMC.
I think it's 2BB

it should be noted that this was an alleged leak that was in portugese and has the HoD promo art as its card art, so take it for what you will.

It's the same list as here, but -1 Renewned Hope and sideboarding the Ascension for 2x Fateful Showdown.

You stall until you cast New Perspectives and hope you don't wiff on Vizirs. If shit goes south, you can at least try for a turn 4-6 Showdown into Shadow for a quick hand reload.

mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-new-perspectives-combo-standard

Right now I'm wondering if putting in some Archfiends or something would improve matchups, but I still haven't felt out the impact of the Showdowns over Ascension.

This, however I think it is fake because of how it is the image from the set...

Also isn't a story spotlight (planeswalker watermark), which is very unlikely.

I read somewhere that the symbol was from a nicol bolas archenemy set? It wouldn't surprise me if they printed something like that in an archenemy set but it would surprise me if they used the name of the set for a card that's not in the set.

Also I could be totally wrong about the archenemy thing - it's just hearsay and I certainly don't keep track of these things.

Nice guess, but wrong. Here's a hint.

Waiting for this

>it's a draft a sweet deck and draw nothing but lands or no lands episode

I'm starting to believe the haters.

yeah Standard is good

They're not going to ban Gideon 2 months before he rotates

And Marvel doesn't deserve a ban at all. People are just so accustomed to terrible standards that they instinctively think the best deck should be banned even if it doesn't make any motherfucking sense. Standard is demonstrably NOT a one deck format. And it's really hard to figure out what decks Marvel is keeping out of the format, and how exactly the format would improve if it got banned. It's completely unlike what previous ban candidates did to the formats they were in. Company was much more dominant / bad for the format than Marvel is. So was Copycat. They shouldn't have printed the card and it's definitely the best deck in the format but it also definitely does not need a ban. Just because you don't like playing against it is not a good fucking reason to ban it. It's ridiculous.

Also new Damnation is super fake

Since it's written "search that player's graveyard, hand, and library" does that mean I get to look through their deck and see every card OR do they do the searching and I see nothing?

You get to look. If in doubt the rules favour what makes it harder to cheat.

When would be the ideal time to sell my cards before they rotate? How do i know they will keep their value on modern?

if they are already being played in modern, they will go down in value when they rotate out of standard as standard players sell them

so sell them before they rotate if they are seeing modern play, it probably won't get better

That doesn't look like the set symbol to Archenemy: Nicol Bolas mtg.gamepedia.com/Archenemy:_Nicol_Bolas . Then again, the card on the left is low quality so maybe I just can't tell.

The most powerful card in standard is a blue card. What were the odds of that?

>moving to a new city
>closest lgs only does standard events

I haven't played standard since theros, is it a mistake to get into it now?

Explain yourself.

yes it's a never-ending money sink
WotC can't balance shit.

""""""kills""""" ulamog

you mean, stalls ulamog for a turn unless you ALSO have removal to burn, thus losing you a card advantage. its better to play cast out or even final reward, or even compulsory rest!

it's best used as a combat trick after blocks are declared
the problem is that it doesn't answer any of the other threats from marvel decks

mono black is stronger but b/w is more fun.
Depends if you've played card games before or not.
This is the official art for the set, they have stated before they don't use the official art on cards in standard anymore, also a native speaker in that thread pointed out the wording is wrong.

>00 ▶
> (You)
>it's best used as a combat trick after blocks are declared
>the problem is that it doesn't answer any of the other threats from marvel decks

no, the problem with that is that you've exiled a lot of your deck after ulamog has declared the attack.

This is the most fun I've had in years

B/W has a better marvel matchup and doesn't use relentless dead.

What is it

...

>People are just so accustomed to terrible standards that they instinctively think the best deck should be banned even if it doesn't make any motherfucking sense
Lmao.
Emrakul already had to be banned because Marvel.
Turn 4 Ulamog on it's own is still making people want Marvel to be banned.
Literally ANY big dumb "I win" card printed while Marvel is standard legal is going to warp the format as long as Marvel is legal.
Marvel is going to get banned, if only because Wizards literally can't even design big dumb game winning cards because it exists in standard.

I don't get it. Is it just Crush your way to victory and hope your opponent gets annoyed to death?

Emrakul was much, much, much better in the deck than Ulamog is because it allowed you to combine the Marvel strategy with another powerful strategy (delirium) (and also because Ulamog-Emrakul was an even more unfun play pattern than Ulamog-Marvel)

Marvel is not powerful enough to be banned on its own, and it doesn't warp the format egregiously. Just being the most powerful deck does not make it ban-worthy.

Again, what archetypes is Marvel pushing out of the format? how would the format become more diverse as a result of a Marvel ban?

Hard lock with seasons past, crush, negate, and pick the brain, then wait until the opponent decks out. (I can also just beat in with lumbering falls after crush but that's no fun)

Hey guys, I posted this list some days ago but I'd still like to hear thoughts about it. This is my first ever deck.

I've been trying to find interesting stuff to possibly add later. Seeing how the deck could potentially generate a ton of token creatures, could Oviya Pashiri be used to make some big artifact creatures? Also there's Rot Shambler, which could become something pretty ridiculous.

I'm building 5c Bring to Light. It's almost done. I think it can be really nice since it's full of answers, and I expect the cards in it to go up in price when the sets rotate out.
I also have a Fling Metalwork never played with it, idk and a U/R Spells that performed well enough to get me a Glorybringer, although I still think it sucks ass.

Right now its rather tempo-y. The Minotaur don't do all that much on their own, but a threw in a few Glorybringers for lulz and it seems to work just fine.

>Marvel is not powerful enough to be banned on its own, and it doesn't warp the format egregiously.
This is the problem dumbass.
If Wizards wants to print any big dumb creatures on the level of Ulamog/Emrakul their either going to have to ban Marvel or ban the card they literally just printed.
...Or make a 10 CMC card so weak even casting it for free wouldn't be worth it.

For as long as Marvel is in the format, any game winning expensive card is a card that makes Marvel a more consistent win. And I doubt that Wizards is going to simply stop printing big dumb win condition cards.

>For as long as Marvel is in the format, any game winning expensive card is a card that makes Marvel a more consistent win.

But, no, that's not true. The only big-mana cards that make Marvel better and more consistent are ones that are more powerful than Ulamog. Which is a pretty high bar. Ulamog is very powerful. And I don't think the deck is broken with Ulamog, so it would have to be substantially more powerful than Ulamog to break the deck.

Maybe that'll happen IDK. But I don't think the deck is a problem right now, and there's no reason to think it's necessarily going to become a problem.

>And I don't think the deck is broken with Ulamog
Then you would be disagreeing with even pro players.
But the main issue with Marvel isn't that it's broken ( you're somewhat correct ). The problem is the randomness and lack of skill involved. Being able to randomly dump an Ulamog is bad. Being able to randomly dump an Ulamog on turn 4 and exile 2 opponents lands is unbeatable. There's not much interaction to stop it other than hoping they had bad luck and didn't find something good.

I mean, it's definitely not the kind of design that I would prefer them to make. I'm not saying Marvel is perfect by any means. I hope they do move away from that kind of randomness in design.

What I am saying is that I don't think Marvel should be banned. The deck is the best deck, but I think it's clearly beatable in the format, which says to me that Marvel isn't too powerful on its own. And while the Marvel+Ulamog combo is not great gameplay, it's by no means pervasive or awful enough to merit banning. Especially since there's IMO no evidence to suggest that Marvel is warping the format unhealthily or keeping other archetypes down. It's definitely the best deck and it's powerful and can be annoying, but it's not format-warping or destroying the format. To me, that doesn't merit a ban.

Also, Ulamog is rotating in 4 months and we don't even know how good the deck is going to be without it. Which is just another reason not to ban either.

Just play the ub control shell but trade a couple slots for archfiend and Drake haven

Your reasoning is flawed, and I'm going to sum it up in a sentence before giving parallels and examples: you're placing far too much value on what the enabling piece goes to find, and not enough on the enabler itself.

Consider this. Ulamog, while it was in standard from BfZ to EMN, saw only moderate play. As a finisher in an eldrazi ramp deck, perhaps, or an alternate win condition in a Crush of Tentacles deck. The reason for this is because the player still had to ramp to 10 mana. Additionally, as newmrakul made her premier, she found a comfortable home within the evolving strategies of bg delirium. Granted, players could cast her for as low as 6 mana, but it took a considerable investment in deck building to find a way to include all seven types of legal cards to shove into your graveyard. Doable, but ran a higher risk of bricking and whiffing than company decks and wb control.

Then kaladesh comes around, and with it the premier of Marvel. The meta was quiet for a while, with the pro tour showcasing delirium vs uw flash almost exclusively, and then Jacob Baugh wins the scg invitational with Naya aetherworks. The haymaker? Emrakul. Turns out casting a 13/13 flample on turn four or five with a mindslaver effect stapled on it is pretty decent. All of a sudden decks were including cards like Sigarda for the personal hex proof as an answer. Not long after, wizards rolled out the standard ban of the spaghetti monster, looter scooter, and that one guy seriously obsessed with mirrors, and the marvel deck went quiet for a while. Now, a few months later, the same strategy with the other eldrazi Titan is the most prevalent, not because Ulamog is auto include in standard decks, but because of the ease at which you can CAST him (another flaw in the design, casting spells instead of just cheating things in).

"But zombies beat marvel at the pro tour!" Anyone who watched those games knows that marvel bricked enough times to build a church.

cont.

"Well that just shows the deck just has to fail for it to be beatable". I'd agree if the deck hadn't evolved to the point that even if it bricks on its spins, which is growing more and more unlikely, it runs adaptable threats like whirler virtuoso to run over decks in the air.

Saying marvel isn't broken in a deck with high cost "win the game" cards is like saying that the card tinker isn't broken in artifact decks. It's the artifacts it goes to fetch. Its like saying that the creatures in a company deck are better than collected company itself.

It is not the threat that ultimately makes a deck like this exceptionally, and almost oppressively good. It's the piece that enables that threat to hit the field much earlier with no downside.

Speaking of marvel, I'm amazed we haven't seen much of 4c marvel just because of how much more flexible the deck gets with it. Is the space too tight?

No, I get what you're saying with that regard - I agree that Marvel is the enabler. If the deck was too good, I agree that Marvel would be the problem. But I don't think the deck is - in practice - too good. It's *good* but it's not broken or dominant, and is clearly less good than things like Copycat and Company were. That's basically the reason that I think it should not be banned. And WRT to Zombies and other decks, it's not just Zombies at the PT - while Marvel is clearly the best deck to play, it's not like it's out here winning every tourney, or even a predominant amount of them.

With regards to Ulamog, I *do* think that the power level of the Marvel targets affects the power of the deck. What I mean by that is that - for instance - the deck would be much more powerful if it could play Emrakul instead of Ulamog. Conversely, if it didn't have access to Ulamog, it would be worse. It might still be good, but it wouldn't be as good. What you're enabling is still an important part of the equation here. Even with Ulamog, I don't think the deck is broken, and I think it's far from a guarantee that we're going to get something better after Ulamog rotates.

Marvel is definitely doing unfair things. My point is that I don't think the actual deck is powerful enough to merit a ban. Nor does the annoying-ness of Ulamog merit a ban. It's not ban-worth even though it is powerful. Things have game against it.

You should have 4 foil copies of Tarmogoyf in your deck at all times, it doesnt matter what color your deck is or what format you're playing, its the only way to win

Play RG Pummeler, RG Monsters or Temur Energy. Those names will sound like gibblerish to you right now but I gave you the exact names of the decklists so you could find them easily in the internet. Pick the one its flavour, way to be played and budget fits you the most.

Try to buy the singles you need, don't rely on booster packs or booster boxes. Don't get near any planeswalker preconstructed deck you could find in the shop, they are derivelately bad so "pros doesn't buyout them and casuals can have fun among them".

In my opinion, RG Pummeler would be a pretty good deck for you to learn to play aggresively, how to use pump spells and combat tricks in the best moment and a little of combo mechanics. It is, however, a Tier 2/3 ish deck so, depending on the metagame of your local game store, that could be enough or not. I mean, at the town next to the city I live, people tend to play Friday Night Magic with pretty much garbage decks but, where I live, it is almost like a mini proffesional tournament.

Anyways, don't get scared, enjoy the game and don't worry about loosing games at first. It is never a defeat unless you don't learn anything about it.

Don't forget to sprinkle on the 50+ replies about how the card is a meh mythic that will make zero strides because "a free anthem does literally nothing in the format where everyone runs Jace."

>Tarmogoyf
>Standard Thread
>mfw

tfw standard is so dead
why bros? will HoD and everything except kaladesh being out fix it? will people last a few more months with this semi-stale meta?

who else here is qualified for an rptq?

Deciding whether or not to go, it's pretty far away.

Doesnt matter the format amigo

Just bought into the New Perspectives deck. Need to decide which 2 of the 3 to play.

1. Cast Out
2. Censor
3. Sweltering Suns

cast out and censor, suns can sit in the board if you want them around

If you can afford to, you really should just get a playset of Blooming Marsh and/or Hissing Quagmire. Foul Orchard is only worth using if you really need the fixing, or are trying to stay as low-budget as you can.

I haven't played standard in years but Summoning Trap sounds like it was worse and it was in a rotation with the original eldrazi and Primeval Titan.

I think the difference is that Marvel isn't even a bad deck when it doesn't draw Marvel or doesn't hit Ulamog. Everyone whining about one card in that deck is dead wrong because the deck as a whole is just fantastic.

Banning Ulamog or rotating BFZ and SOI won't kill the deck because it's just a great value engine supported by good cards.

What's Aetherworks Marvel? I don't remember any one or two drop cards with that name...

What do you guys think about my UW Embalm Homebrew ?

manastack.com/deck/uw-embalm-2

>things have game against it.
Like what? Marvel is going to drop turn 4 ulamog a whopping 41% of the time assuming they had zero fetch or draw before that point. The only deck that can even pretend to interact is URx control, and guess what? Zombies and Mardu have wiped it off the face of the format! And barring a god draw neither of them can get a turn 4 kill anyway.

Marvel needs to be banned, not because it keeps other decks down, but because it removes all pretense of skill from the game. You spin the wheel and win or lose, full stop.

In a world where marvel doesn't exist, you can comfortably print big investment big payoff cards. You can't in a world where marvel does exist. The point you're trying to make is just further solidifying the argument. Marvel has a chokehold on design space and enforces a ceiling on raw power level of a card.

The main problem against marvel is that you cannot play around all the threats in the deck at once, which is what you're required to do. And the longer the game goes on, the higher percent chance is they'll land a bomb.

I'm sure it would make the deck overall more reliable if I had better lands, but at the moment I'm just starting out and would like to remain budget-y. Seeing how mine is something like a 15$ deck, I really just want to play and get into the game more before I buy lands that cost more than the rest of the cards combined. I'll definitely keep your advice in mind in the future, thanks.

Have you tried making an anti-marvel deck or are you just upset that someone ulamoged you and your just going to be salty because whaa pros run it a lot must be OP and broken?

Because crying like a bitch rather than teching and trying other ideas is how you get WotC to water down and further ruin their own game.

>The durdley midrange deck has a better match up vs marvel than the deck that is both resilient and applies a bunch of pressure early
Something doesn't add up

How the fuck is that a hard lock

Temur Energy, UR Control, RG Energy. and the fact that Mardu and Zombies are playable enough in the metagame to make UR Control unpopular kind of goes to my point that it's a diverse format.

More generally, like: the fact of the matter is that objectively Marvel is not running the tables. It is not putting up predominant results where it looks unbeatable. Other decks are still able to be competitive and win games, and there is a reasonable amount of diversity among those decks. And not just decks that are designed entirely around beating Marvel.

That's not the sign of a format or a deck that needs banned IMO.

>Marvel needs to be banned, not because it keeps other decks down, but because it removes all pretense of skill from the game. You spin the wheel and win or lose, full stop.

Well, that's a separate argument from it being too powerful. I agree that it's an annoying fucking deck to play against. I feel like that's a really weird precedent for a banning, though, and I think there's actually a really high cost to banning things and I don't think Marvel is worth it. In general, I don't think they should ban things for tournament play reasons.

Kind of? But also not really. I mean it's true to some extent, but I would also argue that the ceiling it enforces is very high. Again, Ulamog is actually an extremely powerful card in very specific ways and there is no guarantee that they're going to print something more powerful and better for the deck going forward.

If they print something in HoD or Ixalan that's more powerful and fucked-up than Ulamog, fine, ban Marvel. I don't think it needs a ban right now though.

The white brings extra interaction, namely exile. However, it's marvel so you'd better hope that they miss Ulamog when you anguished unmaking their marvel.

>All this people talking about baning marvel
That's why we need a counterspell reprint, so all the whinners stop playing magic and we can have actually good cards

But if you play counterspells, you lose to aggro decks. and therefore, logically speaking, this proves that Marvel is too good.