Exalted General - /exg/

Please do not daily remind me. Lunars are my favorite exalted and I know they are gonna be garbage in 3e.

>no one ever can figure out what they want them to be
>devs always go for the shittiest possible option every time
>my characters bro's and ho's always end up mechanically retarded, and their fluff ain't much better

Truly, the worst of all time lines.

It just hurts so fucking bad.

Maybe we'll get lucky this time and they'll be good. But I'm not holding my breath for it.

>Maybe we'll get lucky

...

>What they didn't care about (MA, Craft, BP still being a thing in particular) they let rot no matter how much people complained it's still shit.

Craft and BP I can give you, but how the blue hell is MA on that list? It's like an upgrade in nearly every way in 2e, you know shit that's actually usable rather than needing to buy three styles to make up for mechanically inferior charms.

>still it's own separate thing
>every style is still completely closed off, meaning you can't ever expand upon anything you like, your only choices are buying new styles or nothing
>4 point "fuck you" tax
>still pretty much worse than your native Charms as a Solar except in a few outlier cases

Oh, and don't forget
>MA is now a clusterfuck of abilities, no more "One MA5 sets you for life" like every other ability other than Craft

- Trying to balance MA charms with native charms would be a pain in the ass. You can go ahead and separate it but seems like a really cheap method to get far too much power.

- "Style's completely closed off!"

"However, at the Storyteller’s discretion, it may be possible to find lost Charms known only to ancient masters or long-lost repositories of wisdom, or for a character to achieve a new understanding of a style by seeking inspiration from an epic quest or unexpected source."

If you want to further expand it, learn evocations with the weapons. If you're in an unarmed only style, silk armour with evocations tailored to buffing the style.

- The feat tax is stupidly expensive yes, as is the XP tax.

- Have you fucking played with any of it? Some of the MA charms are disgustingly strong. Shining Point has the highest burst damage of the game in a charm per charm ratio (To come close in other abilities, you need generally need more charms [Don't say fucking thrown, once you blow your wad there it's useless]). Righteous Devil can pump out disgusting damage and penalties with high user accuracy, White Reaper has a good damage adder and better version of Bulwark Stance as the second charm (If you're a solar), Snake's become infuriating to fight when they float high initiatives as hey you don't need to attack decisively to make someone worthless, Crane allows for scenelong counterattacks and makes you annoying to fight, I can go on.

Pound for pound, MA charms are often better than Solar charms, but they're like a single tree for Solar charms. Rather than branching off into new shit, you're locked into that style. You don't reach hyper efficient murder combos of like Melee, Archery, or Brawl but you're still damn good at fighting if you spec into them and are great for people who want to use their normal XP to buy other things.

>"However, at the Storyteller’s discretion, it may be possible to find lost Charms known only to ancient masters or long-lost repositories of wisdom, or for a character to achieve a new understanding of a style by seeking inspiration from an epic quest or unexpected source."

This has never nor will ever be acceptable as an answer to anything. "Just homebrew it, bro" is always a strawman.

Even when the fucking book itself tells you its acceptable to expand the style in this case?

Or did you want something like each MA having it's only small trees totaling three dozen charms?

My man, what the fuck do you actually want from the MAs? You want each MA to be a sprawl of 30 Charms like all the Abilities? That's just dumb. MAs are supposed to be tightly constructed Charm trees around a strong theme, not the sprawling generic Ability Charms Solars have that are meant you're meant to pick and choose from grab-bag style as a means to detail a theme you already have in mind. MA Charms are pound for pound more powerful, but there are less of them total, that way someone super investing in a combat Ability will eclipse a practitioner of a single style but at an equal investment the MA stylist does pretty well for himself.

Your complaint seemed to be, despite this you still want more Charms, the answer then is the book absolutely says "Hey motherfucker, you can make more Charms." Just like it says if the 30 Melee Charms weren't enough for you, you can make more. But if your argument is that MAs should all have 30 Charms then you want something out of MAs that they have never, ever been about.

Not him but:

>Even when the fucking book itself tells you its acceptable to expand the style in this case?

Coming from a community that decries the developers and writers in several decisions such as Craft, Lunars, and many other hot button issues - yes, the book's words can be a fucking strawman.

>Oh, you don't like how we made you pay 12 experience for the PRIVILEGE of this PREMIUM ability with at most thirteen charms that most often covers a narrow spectrum of options! MAKE EM YOURSELF, YER PRACTICALLY A GAME DEV!

When I can dump 5 points into Dexterity, 5 into Melee, and buy the same amount of charms for more bang for my buck, there's a fucking problem.

>MAs are supposed to be tightly constructed Charm trees around a strong theme, not the sprawling generic Ability Charms

Citation fucking needed. Martial Arts is an Ability as well as any other, even though it's been arbitrarily sectioned off alongside Sorcery to allow SXP to be used on it. I'm not taxing myself to make one PORTION of a charm tree available to myself, because if I want to give myself more options (of which the charms may not be compatible due to weapon and armor restrictions), I have to buy myself up to 3, 4, or 5 MA all over again.

Charm bloat is a problem, but when those are the cards you're dealt, you're shortchanging anyone who wants to be a comparable combatant.

So, I just saw the Dragonblooded stuff in the OP. How good is it? Can I build some good antagonists or player characters/npcs out of it now?

Which one, the charm preview? Or the homebrew?

The charms preview. Didn´t see a homebrew up there.

We barely have any combat charms at all in the preview and don't have their pseudoexcellencies, so I don't think it's useable for antagonists

...

>Citation fucking needed. Martial Arts is an Ability as well as any other, even though it's been arbitrarily sectioned off alongside Sorcery to allow SXP to be used on it.
Try actually reading the way any edition of Exalted handles Martial Arts. They've never been described as just another Ability like any other.

>When I can dump 5 points into Dexterity, 5 into Melee, and buy the same amount of charms for more bang for my buck, there's a fucking problem

Translation

>When I can min-max like this nothing matters because being a power player is all I have, fuck building a character for anything other than being the biggest damage dealer

>Abloo-bloo-bloo, I don't understand how mechanics work and this means my anus is permanently on fire, please cuck my shit up daddy!
Kill yourself.

>senseless babbling that is not even remotely related to what's being talked about.
How about you take your own advice, senpai?

Admittedly I don't know how 1e and 2e handled it, and I won't go so far as to say they don't (or shouldn't) have any bearing on how 3e handles MA. I do know how 3e handles it though, and other than this blurb on p.154 of core...

>Special rules: Martial Arts is a special Ability, which a character must possess the Martial Artist Merit (pgs. 163-164) to purchase. Martial Arts cannot be taken as a Caste or Favored Ability by itself. Instead, if Brawl is a Caste or Favored Ability, then so is Martial Arts. If Brawl is a Caste Ability, then Martial Arts can be taken as a character’s Supernal Ability, if desired—but if Brawl is a character’s Supernal Ability, this benefit does not extend to Martial Arts.

>Like Craft, when a character first buys this Ability, she must declare a martial arts style which her Martial Arts dots represent mastery of. Chapter Seven contains a number of example martial arts styles characters might choose from. Additional styles must be purchased as independent Abilities—thus, a character might have Martial Arts (Snake style) 5, and Martial Arts (Tiger style) 3.

...Martial Arts is handled in the same way as any other Ability, other than the tax and spec. Hell, even when you buy Craft and pick a type of crafting you aren't locked out of 80% of the Craft charms because they don't match. If I were to throw my hat in the ring on a possible fix, I'd have a general tree in MA that all styles share, while slotting in the specific style charms in the tree somewhere or even just having them be completely divorced from one another.

>having some level of system mastery and wanting an ability that has dominated others (even unintentionally) to be in line with others makes me a power player

>being a power player who enjoys stretching their proverbial limbs to see what the mechanics are capable of is a problem

While I wouldn't call myself a power player, I actually enjoy the fluff AND crunch of this game. Sue me.

You're trying too hard to fit in, Leddit. Just give it up, it's embarassing.

there is zero chance 3e lunars will be worse than 1e or 2e

Additional thought that the character limit didn't let me get in. The barrier for entry on Sorcery is lower than Martial Arts.

>Keys off of Occult, but isn't an entirely separate Ability so you can double dip the ability dots for Occult and Sorcery.

>No arbitrary 4-dot "Sorcerer" merit gating to entry.

>The ACTUAL gate to entry is a charm that also grants you a free Spell AND access to unique merits along with a shaping ritual.

Didn't know it was easier to be Dr. Strange than Bruce Lee, whoda thunk it.

As I said before, the feat tax is stupid, but have you looked into any of the MA's at all? Most of them do shit native charm users would kill for. A solar using Righteous Devil lags behind Archery in terms of burst damage, but the Righteous Devil user has auto-aiming, a nasty AoE that DOESN'T require splitting dice, damage boosting charms, and a capstone that applies a nasty crippling penalty or levels of aggravated damage. These are all things Archery would kill for.

Snake style makes STR nearly a dump stat in combat. It is the only style in the game where you don't need to reset your initiative if you don't want to but still win the fight by crippling your opponent. Your soak and defense become fairly damn high, become a pain in the ass to clash for anyone that is not melee, and is second only to Crane in terms of frustration to fight.

Even Tiger Style, what people regard as the weakest MA (At least compared to the ones that actually stand, unlike Steel Devil) have an amazing form where you basically get 2e's Solar Hero style effect. Brawl can do the same thing but you either spend a shitton of motes in a burst to get it up in one shot or build it up slowly. Tiger Style can go from zero to "RIP AND TEAR!" in no time flat.

And yes, the fact that you can use SXP to buy them is a selling point. It allows non-combatants to hang in the game, but becomes fairly effective when combined with some native charms. This has been intentional since 1e. So while you were buying your dozen or so melee charms, a martial arts user probably bought his style to completion and charms to go with it (Dodge or Resistance). Unless you have evocations or cheese builds then this is going to be a bitch to overcome.

Now hush along, adults are talking.

>Thunderbolt Fantasy
>I would maybe suggest Three Kingdoms tv series.

Where would one go about in acquiring these things?

Well, they're presumably not going to hire people who absolutely hate the concept that they present, which is the biggest problem of both editions slain right there.

>when combined with some native charms
MA charms are EXPLICITLY incompatible with native charms, you moron.

I think at this point it's obvious we're looking for two different things in Martial Arts. The points I've made were toward anons who shrugged off the complaints made and told the other to 'fix it yourself' in essence, citing a lazy policy by the devs.

>And yes, the fact that you can use SXP to buy them is a selling point. It allows non-combatants to hang in the game, but becomes fairly effective when combined with some native charms. This has been intentional since 1e. So while you were buying your dozen or so melee charms, a martial arts user probably bought his style to completion and charms to go with it (Dodge or Resistance).

>12 charms plus 5 dots in relevant Ability (assuming caste/favored): 109 Experience (13 SXP, 96 XP)

Assuming a rate of 5 XP/2 SXP per session, this requires 20 sessions to reach completion, while allowing for an overflow of 4 XP and 27 SXP.

>1 4 dot merit, 5 dots in Martial Artist(X), and about 11 charms (also assuming caste/favored): 113 Experience

If we go by your argument that someone is using only SXP to buy their Martial Art, they have spent nearly 60 sessions to do so. If they're also focusing on their MA like the above native user, they can reach this in 17 sessions (85 XP, 34 SXP) overflow of 6 experience.

This ignores the argument on the value of each individual Charm, but that would require more analysis than simple math.

Also

>Now hush along, adults are talking.

Unnecessary and patronizing, woohoo.

youtube.com/playlist?list=PL33A390995E9A7F00 three kingdoms

Thunderbolt Fantasy - kissanime io/Anime/Thunderbolt-Fantasy/ or just google search thunderbolt fantasy stream

...

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCldpz_Pc1FrGQLsaxaV0kVPqmXN_nanN three kingdoms. First few episodes aren't chopped into separate parts as in first link I posted.

Nice strawman, faggot, but you'd have to be retarded-Which you are-To ever see wanting mechanical competence and parity as a bad thing. Good thing it's easy to filter faggots like you out of games, you're always the easiest ones to spot, because you foam at the mouth at the mere mention of things like taking Dex at 5.

Sounds like a challenge to me!

Not with Athletics, Dodge, Resistance, or even things like Ride ninny.

>I think at this point it's obvious we're looking for two different things in Martial Arts.

Then go ahead and say exactly what the fuck you want in martial arts and own up to your statements rather than producing vague shit.

Also

>2 SXP a session

Even using RAW rules for gaining solar XP, I often get 4 SXP for 2 out of 3 sessions on average. Most people I've played with have similar gains unless you sit in a corner with your thumb up your ass.

>This ignores the argument on the value of each individual Charm, but that would require more analysis than simple math.

As someone who has viewed over the charms more times than is reasonably healthy, most of them are better than native charms. You get some outliers in the normal charm tree, such as Over-And-Under Method, Rampage Berserker Attack, and so on but overall they're still largely better.

Pointless nitpick I know, but Aku would be a Third Circle Demon, what with being but a fragment of a Primordial entity.

They are not compatible with Native combat charms you animal.

Sumo-based Martial Art when?

Is there going to be a Monday meeting today or not because its a holiday?

No idea; Monday Meeting notes tend to go up really late these days anyway so we'll only know in maybe 4 hours or so.

I think we should because iirc it was hintedw we'd get more EX3 release info this week.

they will find a way to take out the only salvageable bits from 1 and 2 to make 3 even worse

No notes, but there were status updates.

Arms of the Chosen is now AD'd and contracted.
The Ex3 novel moved up, for those who care about such things.
The monthly Ex3 stuff is still in Art Direction.

>The monthly Ex3 stuff is still in Art Direction.

Its never leaving Art Direction until everything is out anyway. Its just a placemarker at this point.

I dunno, it could go back to development if enough people bitch about the behemoth.

So what's left for Arms? And what does the "monthly Ex3 stuff" consist of? Adversaries and Night Parade?

I think someone needs a time out.

On a nice, long voyage across the ocean...

>So what's left for Arms?

Looks like they just need to get the book's artwork and layout done mostly. Which shouldn't take amazingly long unless problems come up with the art pieces.

>And what does the "monthly Ex3 stuff" consist of? Adversaries and Night Parade?

Yep.

>So what's left for Arms?
About a month give or take the amount of art they actually need. If we have art for each artifact it could take longer but if there are just pieces here and there it should be coming soon™

I'd be okay with it taking a bit longer honestly. We got one dude in a drawthread doing art better than the art for any of the artifacts in the 3e core.

I thought he just did Stormcaller. What else did he do?

Thats the one I was talking about. Meanwhile a lot of the core artifact art looks like cg renders.

I just hope there's no more plagiarism. Lord knows we've had enough of that shit.

I'd put up with good plagerism if they could get away with it.

Yeah it's less a problem I have with the practice and more the fact that if it gets caught again, there's going to be another massive delay.

What are some good reasons for a Dawn cast to Exalt that aren't just some variation of "I killed a dude super good."

Any new material for Lunars?

Being completely outclassed and on the verge of death but continuing to fight anyway.

If you've seen The Last Samurai, imagine the scene where Cruise was surrounded by many samurai and wounded several times. He was brought to his knees, and lost half his spear blocking an attack. On his back, he lashed out and slew the dude who had beaten him.

In an Exalted game, his character may have ascended right then as the other samurai descended on him (as opposed to what actually happened, where Ken Watanabe's character saved him).

A swordsman who threw his name away after his family was murdered went on a nihilistic rampage against any brigand or bandit he'd find. Until he saw a bandit's child try to protect their father.

The swordsman sheathed his blade and made a simple proclamation: "Any man can change."

When he walked away, the bandit and the swordsman believed it was about the bandit repenting and ceasing his ways. The Unconquered Sun though was watching the fight and knew the true meaning of the swordsman's wisdom and exalted him to show him the power of a compassionate blade.

"It turned out he was really just backing up to get a running start and punt the little bugger's head right off."

Anyone know of any good homebrew heavy armors?

not I, maybe check the forums.

What demons are the best rulers?

Octavian. Being a ruler is what he IS.

If you mean evocations, I just steal resistance charms from homebrews

Just take the 3-dot or 5-dot armors from the corebook and refluff them.

My Dawn exalted after surviving a gauntlet to claim a Legendary Blade from a temple. His moment of exaltation was parrying three lightning strikes in a demonstration of supreme Single Point mastery.

>Mastering a martial art before you exalt
Que?

Well "Mastery" inasmuch as any mortal can attain. Fluffwise, 5 MA/5 Dex is an autistic level of sword. The whole "It's really unclear exactly when he exalted" thing also helps.

Martial arts aren't an Exalted only thing. Mortals don't get any mechanical benefits from them, but the vast majority of Creation's martial artists are still mortals.

Nah, being a conqueror is what he is. He is an okay ruler as well, but ruling isn't so much his thing as an inevitable consequence of him doing his thing.

doing
100 push-ups
100 sit-ups
100 squats
and running 10km
EVERY SINGLE DAY

does this *look* like 2936 after exigents and liminals and wyld exalts and getimin and various other homebrew trash has been released? and then the doubleplussolarexpansion book would also obviously come first.

and then they'd find some way to ruin it anyway to break your spirit after all that waiting

to be fair the sun is the god of crackheads. he'd exalt the asshat anyway and never notice. solars aren't heroes as in good guys, they're heroes in that they do something that'd qualify as a 'heroic task' in the classical sense, like slaughtering a village to gather 10k foreskin trophies or raping all the amazons or whatever,

we've got an entire caste devoted to killing stuff real good and an entire second caste devoted to being the world's best assassin

Why are there 300 solars and lunars, but only 100 sidereals?

>Why are there 300 solars and lunars, but only 100 sidereals?
Because the Maidens judged it enough.

Because Sids are less powerful, but far bigger cunts.

so they can be eternally swamped by paperwork and unable to fuck up your shit even when you're doing ridiculous solar-sue nonsense and being an openly grossly incandescent godking.

>t. Sidereal

Because they were meant to be advisors, and I guess the Maidens were also probably a lot weaker overall than the Sun and Moon given it took 5 of them to make 100 Sids, but Luna and Sol shat out 300 apiece (400 Lunars if you count the original fluff numbers).

Any news on Team Hamsterwheel? Where are they now?

I like those guys. I hope that they found a soft landing. I don't agree with them on game design on a lot of points, particularly on exalted, but they're alright dudes.

We like you too, Holden.

Neither Holden nor Hatewheel. I'm a ghost that you wouldn't even remember.

On twitter. Mostly just complaining about Trump.

I was kind of hoping for a Plague of Hats-esque shitstorm.

You seem bitter.

It was just a question, a simple no would have sufficed.

Isn't there 400 Lunars now?