Hello friends, I am in a bit of a pickle

look, for starters trying to scale dice damage based on caliber is retarded because of the numerous factors that lead to it doing less/more damage. You really want to track stuff like the metal its made of? What shotgun shells are loaded with beyond 'burny' or 'armor piercing'?

The best system for guns I've seen in terms of caliber revolves around 'low' and 'high.'

secondly the other issue with guns is magazines and keeping track of ammo. Shadowrun is so complicated it has its own digital assistant for that among other things.

but I am in an OSR game with firearms, nothing beyond wild west, so it varies.

TL;DR
stick to nonspecific calibers
seperate guns into 'slow loading' and 'fast loading'
maybe include 'Rate of Fire' for automatic weapons

If you go by the logic that Ops and Tactics uses, you want 3d6 - which is a d20 system but with the crits knocked away 3 - 18

Not that user. But Cyberpunk 2020's guns are accompanied by a very power game-able SP(armor) system. But you can just use the damage dice for the guns and come up with some Armor system on your own.

I apparently lost my PDF of the Equipment Bible or I'd post that for you to look at it but it shouldn't be hard to find.

5.56x45 uses 5d6
9mm uses 2d6
.50 uses 6d10

etc

I like the gun system because it feels right, the big guns seem scary when they shred your armor and limbs. Little guns can be scary too if you get shot enough times or aren't wearing armor. But if you're wearing armor you're pretty much immune to the peashooters, which wouldn't be true.

Thanks for the reply.

There is something super attractive about a system that captures the visceral, permanent nature of combat.

If I want my character to live on and on and on, D&D and similar systems are good for things like that, because in addition to certain classes being a damage sponge, you have spells and stuff too which can heal others.

So I believe in having a system that can function well in terms of quick, truly dangerous combat.

At the level of abstraction most games operate at, you really don't need to make much distinction between different guns and cartridges.

Frankly, generic firearms and in-depth shooting mechanics would be more realistic imo

GURPS.
All weapons do "d6" of damages, but plenty have +/- modifiers, up to 2 generally. They also do different types of damage, from pi- to pi++. At pi- damage that passes armor is halved, at pi+ it's multiplied by 1.5 and at pi++ multiplied by 2. pi is just nothing special.
Swapping magazines typically takes 3 seconds, but you can train to make it faster. For guns that you reload bullet by bullet, it depends on the gun. Revolver takes 3 seconds per, but you can buy a speedloader. Muskets up to a minute, but again you can train to reduce the time it takes.

>So my questions are: In your experience, which system stats firearms properly,
Disregard most replies, OP. There's really only two answers.
A. Phoenix Command. Designed by actual NASA scientists, this legacy game system is pure autism. Of course it's realistic but kinda slow to play, even in the streamlined form of the later cinematic versions a la Aliens RPG.
B. The Compendium of Modern Firearms (Edge of the Sword). Not a complete game system but completely autistic attempt at gamifying guns based on realworld statistics. Pic related.

Take those and dumb down as necessary.

>At what point is it better to use 2d4 instead of 1d8? That kind of thing.
sounds like you're reinventing the wheel, desu. for example, no matter what dice you choose here, phoenix command's table-based approach will probably be more realistic.

my advice: look into phoenix command and see if it doesn't already do what you want out of a game. you'll find though that realism is, as mentioned, slow and only provides LASTING fun to a small niche of gamers who are exactly into that. most people would rather forego realism for the sake of ease of play and more cinematic action.

Ops & Tactics, Ballad of the Laser Whales, and Phoenix Command are all top tier.

>GURPS
now here's something you're not going to hear every day: it's not realistic enough, buddy. phoenix command outdoes GURPS on that front, hands down.

but, yeah, GURPS is a good, more workable compromise between realism and accuracy

Part 1/2
A brief look at how Phoenix Command works in form of the streamlined Aliens RPG. (Important to note here is that being unarmored gives no less than +12 to the damage roll in top of the table.)

Part 2/2
Once you know how much damage points you have accumulated, you can look up when you need to roll for death and what you need to roll under for survival. You do that on this table.

Autistic? Yeah. But kinda plausible.

Yes.
I'll stick to GURPS. tyvm

>damage from caliber to caliber
that's a pretty big jar of pickles to open. Maybe just group calibers and apply penetration bonuses as we go up in sizes within the group

OP here.

I am familiar with Ballad, but more familiar with Song of Swords. I need to look in to Ballad more, as I know their attempts at making realistically functioning weapons are often top tier.
Probably am reinventing the wheel. I am trying to strike a balance between realism and that cinematic action.
I will totally check out Phoenix Command and the Compendium.

Not sure how autistic I want to go with this, but I will check it out nonetheless.

twilight 2000 already did what you're trying to do son

OP again, this is basically what I have been doing. I grouped calibers across the board, all the way from 1d2 and up. Lots of damages, lots of options. I feel like it barely matters anyway, because the way I'd like the system to turn out, a couple shots and humans or animals are downed.
Take .25 ACP for example, grouped in the 1d2 section. Lowest damage, in there with .22 Short, 8mm Nambu (notoriously shit round, despite its size), and so on.
1d2. Yeah. Sad. But take like six of those shots or more in a round and you'll be hurting.

I may be approaching a bunch of shit too specifically, and other things too generally at this stage in development.
I need to put character creation on paper, and do some playtesting with all this shit.

Nah, Twilight 2000 is a lot more crunchy than I intend to go. I think my initial post kind of misled some of you all, which is fine, but I'll state now that I don't plan to go megacrunch. I just want to figure out the best way, dicewise, to distinguish a Beretta 950 Jetfire in .25 ACP, to an FN FAL in 7.62x51 NATO, and everything in between and beyond, for use in a low-HP, high-damage environment.

Calibers will be group in to semi-specific sections, and assigned dice for damage. Just not sure how exactly to get it just right.

>All these damage charts
Why not go more modern and go with a wound and pain system?

Give calibers wounding aspects, based on the severity of being shot by one of them. I have no idea how guns work when used on people, but let's take an example here.

Some small pistol caliber deals a wound with the following traits
>Small wound (Pain 1)
>Bullet stuck (Pain 2)

Now give your characters a pain threshold based on some attribute, modified by past experience with pain and temporary things like adrenaline level and painkillers. Pain limits ability useage with its level as a negative modifier. If you want to get more detailed, you can have pain levels for each appendage.

While pain can be fought by guzzling down oxycodone or whatever, if the wound stays untreated, the pain will increase and the wound may worsen to include additional effects like "Infected".

Depending on the caliber, hit location and the weapon used you can add additional damage on the fly to that wound, like "Collapsed lung" or "Shattered bone" with their own pain values.

That way you don't have to fiddle around with clunky HP systems.

Twilight 2E isn't more crunchy than GURPS though, so you should reconsider GURPS.

If you want it less crunchy than that, I honestly unironically suggest Palladium. You probably don't want to reuse the whole system, however, and you probably want to rejig some damage stats for weapons but it might be the easiest and best way to go. Spraying half (or full) a magazine at some enemy is quite fun.

Is Ops and Tactics any good? I'm the only resident /k/ommando at my table and am thinking of looking in to it, but is it friendly for new people or only really for people who already have /k/-boners like myself?

Twilight 2013 is really quite good.

It's plays about as fast as GURPS (which is, very fast, but you might want an initiative tracker for this), is a bit more realistic on damage (GURPS gives guns too much damage by default, though there're several alt-rules that make it more reasonable), and has an interesting tick-based initiative system that does a better job of clearly encouraging tactical play than GURPS' one-second rounds do.

It's not nearly as flexible as GURPS mind you, so I only use it for fairly straightforward modern action/post-apoc/zombies. GURPS is better for applying the same principles to other genres.

Traveller has a good balance of realism and simplicity.

Often you can represent things realistically with simple rules. Doesn't take a ton of charts or different dice rolls. Traveller has a good mix, and covers firearms from ye olde muskets through to modern tech and sci fi.
The initiative and leadership system is very nice too - allowing players to give orders and use tactics skills to get the drop on enemies.
Traveller is also nicely lethal - a pistol can do enough damage to put someone down with one hit.

Once you get to assault rifles with armor piercing bullets, even body armor doesn't really do shit

>it's not realistic enough, buddy.
You got that Tactical Shooting, though.

Have a gander at the 3G3 weapon design system, and how its 'conversion to systems' section works (3G3 uses the TimeLords 2e system stats by default, but nobody plays that so they have an appendix with generic and specific conversion rules).

I genuinely like how Savage Worlds does gun combat and combat in general (with some fixes, having an AK deal more damage than a battle rifle is straight-up retarded).
Armour adds to the damage threshold a hit needs to reach before it affects you, but all rolls explode including damage so a single round can paste someone's vitals if they're unlucky or incautious. The system uses a wound level system for damage, but only PCs and named characters can take more than one wound before going down.

The bonuses for surprise attacks and called headshots are utterly brutal when combined; you have to be a retard not to hit and unless your target is in full power armour or something ridiculous they're going to fucking feel it. Or just plain die.
Use the option for each wound inflicting a temporary injury for a gritty and painful but still quick and heroic-feeling game.
Only downsides I can really see are the gun rules needing a bit of work (RAW shotguns are just plain superior and some statblocks need swapping) and the anaemic rules for suppressing fire.

A question that has strangely gone unasked.
What system are you basing your homebrew off?
before you decide how a .303 differs from a .34ACP you first need to decide how damage effects a character. is it just meat points that are worn away? is it a wound penalty? if you get shot do you start to bleed out? how does getting shot effect doing other thing?
is damage going to be constant across experience? will there be giant monsters or armor? how does recovering from a bullet wound work? how does one hit or not be hit by a bullet? how does bare steel compare to jacketed projectiles?
These are questions that need to be answered
and finally the most important question
What is the objective of designing the system?

edit: dont know why I typed .34ACP, .45ACP is what was meant to be written

Tactical Shooting is mostly about shooting stances and how to translate operators' operations into GURPS moves and rounds, doesn't make the game particularly more realistic.

As another mentioned, you might find 3G3 useful. Here.

u$er$cloudcom/2cq3wg5x4hxg

Gue$$ what "$" repre$ent$, and make sure your Adblock is on.

...

If he had said "there are no good and realistic gun mechanics in roleplaying" I would have agreed.

But since he made such a wide statement as what he actually did, I will have to disagree, and furthermore, accuse him of being a bit of an idiot.
The idea that getting shot with a bullet is somehow a much more complicated thing than getting shot with an arrow, sling stone or magical spell is retarded.
if you can abstract an arrow to the gut as "1d8" damage, or "causes a medium wound" or whatever you can do the same to a 9mm handgun bullet.

Eh, .32 ACP exists and is actually very close in bullet diameter (7.92mm) to .303 British (7.94mm). So they're a good example of 'same caliber, vastly different results'.

What matters is that .303 British has long, heavy bullets and a lot of powder propelling it, and you can't actually tell that just from it's name, you have to look it up or see them in action.

I think Traveller is underrated for modern combat rules. It covers everything from bows and maces to machineguns, laser cannons, etc.

I'm interested in real life guns too, but I think more stats and granularity does not make your game more realistic or fun. In fact, I'd argue that if choice of gear is too important, it detracts from the game--instead of thinking in terms of tactics players will just be gearfagging all the time to optimize their loadout.

In other words, I'd stat your weapons with broad categories, rather than trying to make meaningful differences between, say, an AK47 and an M4.

Ok I honestly don't think fiddly little caliber differences will matter in a table top environment. Sure you get a little more damage variation out of it, at the cost of slowing down the game and fuck tons of charts. Big caliber differences should be the focus, table top is for people not computers, computers like math, people tend to avoid it, the less fiddly you make things, and the less people have to remember (or constantly look up) the better.
Instead lets look at health for a moment. So the abstract rule of thumb is obviously you have X health gun does Y damage, which translates into % chance gun will kill you with a shot. You get luck on that damage and you can survive tons of bullets, you get unlucky and well you don't. Guns tend swing more the lower the caliber and be more consistent the higher the caliber. Represent this not necessarily with more damage, but with more consistent damage either through dice pools or static mods.
So how do you add an element of realism here that most systems don't handle with guns? Shock. When's the last time you saw a character in an rpg win a fight and then die of their wounds? Seriously. Some systems have bleeding out, but they aren't that common and tend to be too, well preventable a death.
Have a certain amount of damage activate some shock bonus hp. It keeps you alive all well and good, but once the adrenaline runs dry it disappears, potentially leaving you with negative hp, succumbing to wounds you didn't even realize you had.

>computers like math, people tend to avoid it
>mfw this used to be considered a nerd hobby
damn, we need more rolemaster to flush out the casuals

go back to your dead game math-autist

the whole point of this thread is to get a system (or make one) where you can go full /k/ operators operating operationally. People enjoy having a billion different guns with minor differences between them. Maybe not you who "tends to avoid math" (lol), but abstracting the differences between guns misses the point of the thread entirely.

There's like a billion systems that abstract gun combat, there's no need to come up with a new one.

also your shock idea is dumb because players are aware of their health at all times so they'll never "succumb to wounds they didn't know they had"

>comes to a thread about people who want more details in firearms in their RPGs
>lol just abstract it bro, math is hard

maybe it is you who should go back

Not that guy, but if you believe that adding numbers and dice rolls to health and damage of any weapon is NOT abstracting you should reevaluate your perception of reality. No medic in the world checks for amount of burn and suffocation damage values in triage.

>Not that guy, but if you believe that adding numbers and dice rolls to health and damage of any weapon is NOT abstracting

nobody said that tho.

>lol just abstract it bro, math is hard
What did he mean by this?

8mm nambu had similar performance to 32ACP, though

I have a /k/-boner and I despise that system. It tries too hard and fails to achieve any meaningful result while being a cluttered mess.
But as with any system, read it, test it, it's the only way to be sure if it fits your tastes or not.

I made this based on this idea, just to toot my own horn.

Top is the general overview, bottom is an example of someone at the verge of dying.

He got shot
>in the chest with .45 (Pain +1), which stuck in the wound ( Pain +1).
>in the right leg (Pain +1) with 7.62 (Pain+1) which opened an artery (Pain +1)
And he also got
>scraped (Pain +1) on the left arm

Together this adds up to 6 pain.
His normal threshold for losing consciousnes is 4.
Right now, he is under the influence of increased adrenaline, which raises his pain threshold by 2 and oxycodone, which increases it by another 2.

As combat proceeds or dies down, one can add pain to the wounds at the Dms discretion. If he continues to bleed out through his leg, that value should rise quickly.
If the chest wound does not get treated, he may develop a minor infection for +1 pain, which slowly turns to moderate, severe and extreme with rising severity.

Any and all skill checks involving a certain body part get a disadvantage calculated by adding the total pain level with the body parts pain level to reflect the increased pain from that action.

If a character ever reaches 10 pain, he dies.

read the chain of replies and you will get it

>At what point is it better to use 2d4 instead of 1d8?
2d4 has lower variance. With 1d8, you have 12.5% chance of rolling any particular number from 1 to 8. With 2d4, you have 6.25% chance of rolling a 2, and 25% chance of rolling a 5. In general, low variance tends to favor players: PCs have to survive a lot of fights(unless you're playing Paranoia), so they tend to have favorable odds of winning(or at least surviving) any given combat encounter. High variance in damage means that it's more likely that some random mook gets lucky and downs one of the PCs.

This from metagame perspective(which is something you should pay careful attention to since you're planning to make your own system). From strictly mechanical perspective, you might want to have some weapons use 1d8 to represent highly random damage while others have 2d4 meaning they're more reliable damage dealers.

I can say from personal experience that games full of gear fagging and tons of mechanical options and niche bonuses rarely play like "operators operating operationally". Trying to simulate every factor in a gunfight becomes more like an accounting sim than an action game.

If that's what you desire, go ahead. But it strikes me as a bit like playing D&D and insisting that the choice between using a long sword and an arming sword should be a major factor in a character's success.

>I can say from personal experience
And I can say from personal experience that you're wrong.

Look m8, you don't want gun porn in your game, that's fine. There's like a billion different games that just go "pistol, big pistol, assault rifle, sniper rifle, shotgun" and call it a day. I would rather have more detail.

And due to having to very broadly generalize, .32 and .25 are in the same damage boat essentially.

I am not designing the system based on any existing system, really. Might seem like project suicide, but it's how I want to do it. I like taking a bit from different systems and making it all work for me by tweaking a system that I know inside and out (because I made it).
To answer some other questions:

>How does getting shot affect doing other things?
If you get shot and manage to survive, there will be a system shot table just to see if you suffer shock from blood loss or the initial shot. Same goes for losing a limb or getting deeply cut by a sword. Getting hit in general can fuck up your day if you are not careful. Body armor is great, but not getting hit in the first place is even better.

>Will damage be constant across experience?
Yes, but HP itself won't change all that much. Again, the system will definitely lend itself better to one-shots, gritty post apocalypse, or special operations type stuff.

>Will there be monsters or armor?
Yes and yes. Monsters will not be super buff, but will be able to soak up more damage than a person, typically. But again, that is dependent on the setting.

>how does recovering from a bullet wound work?
Setting dependent. In sci-fi, you might be looking at a wound paste or some shit. It will be easier to heal in sci-fi settings.
In modern settings, it would be a long recovery, bandages and modern medicine type stuff.

>how does one hit or not be hit by a bullet?
Reaction is a skill, might end up being a core attribute, which allows you to react to things happening around you. Instead of AC in D&D, you've got Reaction in this system. Reaction can be used to physically move you out of the way in the moments before the enemy pulls the trigger, or move out of the way of a sword swing.
In this way, nobody is "dodging bullets." You are getting to cover or firing back before the shots even start.

>When's the last time you saw a character in an rpg win a fight and then die of their wounds?
the last time i played harnmaster, which has shock rules and wound infection rules

OP here. Thanks. You are correct, the last thing I want to do is abstract the gun differences and gun combat.
It should also be noted, for everyone reading this, that my system is not intended to be published or shown to a broad audience. Hell, most of my players that I run games for wouldn't even like this, but my brother and my best friend would completely dig a system like this, and I want to make it something we can spend an afternoon playing.
Do they feel like playing as Force Recon Marines behind enemy lines? Cool.
Do they feel like playing futuristic science soldiers fighting in a space ship? Awesome.
Do they want to be rovers in post-apocalyptic America, just trying to find their way to a peaceful place? Sweet.

This is mainly a system I will use for my brother and a friend or two, and if it plays well and turns out to be very fun, I will post it up to Veeky Forums and such.
Thank you very much for this, I appreciate it. That answered a big question of mine.

The kind of players I would be running this game for would love the amount of detail in weapons and gear that I am obsessing over putting in to the system. Keep in mind I don't care about creating a game that might turn out to only serve a small niche; that is kind of the whole point here.

If you can balance both, good for you. To me, gun porn is only loosely related to making a game about military action. I think it's more likely that you've no idea how to communicate what you want to accomplish.

Lots of games do abstraction like you describe, very few do it well. I'd really enjoy a system with gunbattles that feel chaotic and frantic rather than military themed shopping simulator.

>To me, gun porn is only loosely related to making a game about military action
good thing we're looking for a game about gun porn, not specifically military action huh

It's like you can't process the idea that people might enjoy pointless firearm minutia

OP here, and this is a fact. I am designing the game with that pointless firearm minutia in mind, because my brother and I are so in to firearms that those differences represent some small slice of realism.

Like, the game system I am trying to create is meant for people who enjoy this type of shit. It will fill a niche, because that is what it's meant to do.

Cyberpunk 2020 can perfectly be adapted to simple modern combat. You could go with a damage chart like this:
.32: 1d6+1
.380, .38 Sp.: 2d6
9x19mm: 2d6+1
.40 S&W : 2d6+2
.45 ACP: 2d6+3
.357 SIG: 3d6
.357 Magnum, 10mm Auto: 3d6+1
.44 Magnum: 4d6+1

5.7x28mm, 4.6x30mm: 4d6+2
5.56x45mm: 5d6+1
7.62x51mm: 6d6+2
.300WM: 7d6+3
.338: 8d6+3
12.7x99mm: 6d10

Level 2A vest: SP 10
Level 2 vest: SP 12
Level 3A vest: SP 16
Level 3 plate: SP 20
Level 4 plate: SP 25

Now, I consider rifle damage to be a tad high. I'd maybe lower it by one die (5.56mm: 4d6, 7.62x51mm: 5d6, etc.), but would rule that soft armor only offers half SP value against it - only plates protect well.

No. It sucks.

To add realism you can add damage modifiers on certain hit locations (ex. Head: DMG x2, Vitals: DMG x1.5).

I also strongly recommend using a wound system, instead of a hit point based system. In the case of the list posted above, wounds would go like this:

DMG 1-4: light wound
DMG 5-8: serious wound
DMG 9-12: critical wound (character might die if hit in head or vitals and no medical help available)
DMG 13+: mortal wound (character is immediately KIA if hit in head or vitals, might survive if hit anywhere else and medical help is available)

Wounds are not cumulative.

...

OP here. Although I carry a Gen 4, I much prefer the grip of a Gen 2, so I am excited for Gen 5. I am not a fan of finger grooves. For this reason I considered a CZ-75, and still kind of consider it over my Glock 19, but... I have a good setup. Glock 19 w/ tritium sights, Talo Exo finish on the slide and barrel, packed in a Haley Strategic INCOG holster. I carry a spare magazine. Federal HST 147gr hollow points.

What significance does a light wound or serious wound carry in this example?

How many light or serious wounds until someone dies of them?

Light wound does nothing but requires a stun save if hit in the vitals or head. Serious wound requires a more difficult stun save, and it gives a penalty to all skill checks.

Like I said, wounds are not cumulative. You can be covered in light and serious wounds without kicking the bucket. That sad, getting killed is pretty easy, if you're hit in the head or vitals, especially if special ammo is used (hollow-point ammo multiplies DMG x1.5).

Nice setup. Considering a CZ P-09 as bedside gun.

What exactly don't you like about it?

Any particular reason why it sucks?

I am a fan of almost anything CZ. Can't really go wrong if it's what you like.

OP here, and not either of the people you are replying to.
Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the work that you and the people of Veeky Forums and /k/ went through to make Ops and Tactics.
I like what I see so far, downloaded all the books.

Awesome. Thanks for downloading.

Also, feel free to email me about literally any problem you see or have with the system.

I can't guarantee I'll "fix" it(Due to design tolerances), but I'll at least give a best explanation for /why/ it is the way it is.

Or It could just be me fucking it up completely and i'll be fixed next update.

You never know! Email me!

[email protected]

>Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the work that you and the people of Veeky Forums and /k/ went through to make Ops and Tactics.

I couldn't have done it without the constant criticism I got from Veeky Forums, and the weird gun questions I got answered from /k/.

OH! Check out Modern Magika's magic system. That's probably what i'm most proud of.

Because magic, Psionics, and incantations are fucking awesome.

Also I think a lot of the complaints are people looking at WAY older versions and going "This is terrible! I'll never look at this again!"

Because, to be fair, it was terrible 8 years ago. It was terrible 2 years ago.

IMO, it's only recently stopped being terrible.

Also OP, I read through the entire thread.

The best way to do what you want to do, IF you still want to do it, is to set a baseline.

For OaTs, I used 9mm for handgun, .308 for rifle, and 12 gauge for shotgun.

I then did some calculations based on energy produced to velocity given and balanced calibers behind that.

DO NOT DO THIS. It is long and complicated. There's a book called GUNS GUNS GUNS that breaks this down to a much better science than I did in my crazy ramblings.

Or you could just steal Ops and Tactics's caliber list. That works too.

It's calibrated for a normal human with 10-15 HP, and a bleed rate of at least 1d3, per 6 seconds.

This is kind of out of place, but the newer XCOM games did reloading pretty well.
Make the player choose between reloading in place of making an attack, or reloading in place of moving.

Basically, if you want to reload and fire in one turn, you can't move.
If you want to reload and move in one turn, you can't fire.

Stop shilling Ops and Tactics, the guy is a complete douche, his game is shit, the autofire mechanics are retarded, the gun rules are fucking insanely retarded, GURPS does a better job and is more fun to boot.

>the guy is a complete douche

No i'm not.

>his game is shit

How so? Do you have any specific points you can point to so I can make the game not shit?

>the autofire mechanics are retarded

Please tell me what you don't like about the autofire rules. Seriously.

>the gun rules are fucking insanely retarded,

Again, please tell me what particular rules you find "Insanely retarded".

Also, I was heading to bed but I'll wait 20 minutes(12AM EST) for you to respond.

Purple, is that you?

Look at that. No response.

>replying to him 3 times
Not him but he worked you good and I'm starting to see it desu

I think the damage is fine to be honest.

When balancing an encounter in Cyberpunk 2020 I generally use average die rolls vs Party SP when determining what to throw at the party. 5.56mm at 5d6 has an average damage roll of 15 which is below the SP 20 of your metal plate. It can pierce or bypass the armor on a good roll (Max damage is 30) but it will more often than not plink off the armor. It allows suitable protection to be king but allowing one in a million shots to happen.

I don't know if it's a house rule, but it's just how I learned to play but if a location takes 8 or more damage from one shot(After SP and BTM) the location is destroyed(You don't really want your torso or head being destroyed). That usually works really well for making combat stressful and gives you the mentality of getting shot in the limbs as "Expensive" which wraps around to the theme of Cyberpunk really well.

As for just regular modern combat this rule might be a bit to heavy handed as limb loss is a lot more permanent and crippling than in a dystopian future. This user has a good idea.

>Worked me

If it was his goal to get me to post to him 3 times, sure.

But I'm not going to let an accusation go unanswered, fampie.

SSB's a bit defensive, and disjointed judging by the split response, but he does seem open to specific criticisms even if he's easy to troll with vague ones.

If you weren't dumb or insecure you'd be able to spot weak bait and not reply, or not make 3 separate replies back-to-back (which is right in line for dumb tripfag behavior) including one that's a douchey "lmao no reply".

Don't care, didn't ask.

If he's homebrewing he's using the trip for an acceptable reason, though you are right about his multiposting.

OP here, thanks for all the information. I still want to tinker with my system idea a little bit, and see what I can come up with.
One thing I like a lot is the Human HP being like 10-15. I like working with low numbers when it comes to stuff like this, makes everything feel a little more mortal, if that makes sense.

Yeaaahhh, you are the only person here who gives the impression of being a complete douche.

It's houserules. What I'm not fond of in CP2020, is that it's basically a hit point system. You have 40 hit points divided in 10 wound levels of which 7 are for dieing. It works well in a system where armor is widespread and damage is often small (thanks to efficient armor and BTM). Having x-levels of almost dead also makes sense in CP2020 to add pressure and cost, but in a modern setting you don't need it. Either you're ok, wounded but will be ok, wounded and might die, or KIA.

Well as much as I love the game, I still think you need to rework the feat trees for weapons, and maybe play with the CP costs. Because by RAW a sniper with a maxed out feat tree can make shots with a -5 CP cost while an AR user only gets a -2 CP cost, which is silly that the bolt action rifle has a way higher ROF than the AR. I also don't like things end up at higher levels. Because once players get to a certain point cover immediately becomes useless and battle just become slug fests, one of my current players is level 5 and is getting results of around 30 with spray fire attacks.

>Stop shilling Ops and Tactics, the guy is a complete douche,
Can confirm. The rest I have no idea.

Well, the game is by no means bad in my opinion, it plays similar to DnD being based off D20 modern and all, Autofire isn't bad but it isn't spectacular either and there's literally no reason not to use burst fire if you build a character right and the gun rules can get a bit silly sometimes.

>being based off D20 modern
That's pretty much enough info to say that OaT is crap. Of all systems available he had to choose the worst one as basis for his system.

8 Damage results in a limb being destroyed or crippled, but this cannot happen to torsos in CP2020. It's a rule in I think 2nd edition of 2020.

Then again 8 damage in CP2020 could usually force a save either way, it's a high damage system.

Well he did his damnedest to make it play reasonably well. The worst thing is how fucking bad it gets at high levels. cover ends up being useless past like level 4 because 100% of the cover you can actually fight from by RAW is equal to the enemies' BAB (assuming they bought BAB every level which there is literally no reason not to) and armor only gives you a max of +4 to defense, but is also the heaviest armor in the game so lol have fun with massive dex penalties and CP loss. Even then their random bonuses are going to well out pace your defense bonuses by this point. So it ends up being a game of "tank the most shots you can" at high levels which is the one thing I hate about the system.

>Autofire isn't bad but it isn't spectacular either and there's literally no reason not to use burst fire if you build a character right and the gun rules can get a bit silly sometimes.
Sounds like real life

In real life it's almost always better to use quick singular shots instead of short controlled bursts unless your weapon is specifically designed for automatic fire. Even in basic training when you're going through the basics of fire and maneuver they want the weapon on semi the whole time.

>1d2 damage to start
Nah senpai. Start at 6 health. .22 does 1d10 and go up from there adding either static mods (+n) or additional dice. Static mods should be used carefully, but can help delineate small differences. I wouldn't go higher than the average roll of die(dice) in question. They'll raise the minimum, maximum, and average damage by equal amounts. Additional dice add more consistency and scale better than static. Adding an extra d6 to damage raises minimum damage by 1 but the average by 3.5 and the maximum by 6. Take note of damage thresholds after you've charted the common calibers like most pistols and 7.62/7.51 NATO and see how much average damage those deal. Adjust body armor around those values. Just keep scaling damage up and match armor as needed. Also, give armor a minimum damage threshold where anything below is fully negated, unless you like the idea of a .22 plinking its way through everything.