8th Edition Guard

Guardsmen literally beat Imperial Knights with their lasguns, given the same amount of points.
Yet you can't even take that many, since blob squads no longer exist.
Because if they did exist, they would get raped by the morale system.

Guess I'm sticking with 3rd.
At least until codexes come out.

Then make every other S3 race use them.

Fuckers.

The good news is that Scions are troops now and only cost 50 base. Taurox Prime is beastly now. Maybe not as good as mech vets but they can deepstrike for cheap. Good mobile troops.

You can still have blobs of 50 Conscripts for 150 points with no infantry squad tax.

Commissars have aoe morale buffs. They make sure you only lose one to battle shock.

Except there's no reason to have that many, because they'll all die off to moral rolls in one shooting phase.

Yeah, and Scions can take 2 specials per 5 bodies, so that's actually better than 7E vets.

I guess I'll just rename my goddamn regiment.

Commisars exist you know.

Take twenty casualties, roll a six, lose one conscript to bolt round in the back of the head.

Can be sniped, and not worth the cost if you're using conscripts.
You're better off just having more smaller squads

Are grenade launchers Made Great Again?

I do like that Bullgryns can substitute each item out individually. That's something at least.

I have not read how morale works in 8th yet. How it work?

Cmon, Nothing?

Number of casualties you took in the round +d6 -leadership = how many extra casualties you take.

And Marbo is gone again.

The GW giveth and the GW taketh away, blessed is the name of the GW.

I somehow completely missed that.

Time to buy a bunch I guess.

Conscripts for bubble wrap and slowing things down, Scions for nabbing objectives and hitting weak spots.

It's not all doom and gloom, but personally I'm waiting to see what FW gives us. I want my Vendetta back and the Vulture with Punishers is looking like a clear winner in the new edition.

Plus, any reason to field this beauty.

>You're better off just having more smaller squads
I agree with this. Not because moral, but because more cheap troops means you can take more detachments to open more slots for other stuff and net CP. I think you can fill a brigade for ~720 pits or 240 for whatever the 3 pt one is.

For 5pts, they're thouroughly okay. For two points more you can get plasmaguns though.

My guess is that FW will keep them closer to what they used to be.

We won't know till the book drops.

I was pretty disappointed. No Chenkov either.

Creed is pretty swank for his cost.

Pasknisher got squatted.

Also adding 20 wounds to your army for 60 points rapidly gets you to a point where your enemy just literally doesn't have the firepower to kill your army.

are armored fist guard lists still a thing, saw that tank commissars still exist, but can i just field a shitton of tanks?

I'm liking the look of Veterans. Yeah, they're elites now, but Shotguns seem quite dangerous at close ranges. Plus you can take a Heavy Flamer and 3 Special weapons on top of that, along with a plasma pistol for the sergeant if you really wanted.

Only issue I can see is delivery with how transports are more expensive now

The SOB have power armour and the Mechanicus are cyborgs.

I'm thinking more of how those faggot eldar have sooper spechul floaty platforms that somehow exempt them while Our wheeled carriages somehow don't.

Elf-loving fuckers, every goddamn one of them.

>vehicle set up
You aren't even going to have points for vehicles if you're paying for that much infantry. You need to strike a balance between the two, as is your list isn't going to do you much good, you have extremely limited mobility/firepower and your turns are going to take hours for you to move all your stuff.

Fuckers stole the targeters option from the Shadowsword.

Being honest it would be too good with base BS +3

What are the rules for Dedicated Transports?

Can Stormtroopers take Chimeras yet?

Yeah vets can take a hilarious amount of firepower now. It's what, 3 models that won't have a special or heavy weapon?

Pointsink without at least Carapace.

I want to do that too, but I don't get the melee order. Doing FRFSRF then charging for Conscripts seems better.

You don't just have one commissar.

I am angry at the lack of and removal of options overall. Maybe shit gets better in the codices, but I guess that just means I'm not buying anything or playing for another few months until GW gets its shit together.

At least Inq Crusaders and Rough Riders are good so I could do an IMPERATOR VULT list.

>Marauder Bomber and Avenger can now fire tail weapons at frontal targets, or even the frontal weapons from the rear right after a bombing run
removing firing arc was a mistake

don't worry... we're getting plastic steel legion with options for carapace... but it will be $50 for 5 men

Wait, really?

111 points for 3 Heavy Weapon Squads for 9 Mortars total plus a Company Commander.

if you field a Vanguard Detachment, you get 3-6 Elite units plus an HQ as minimum.

What the hell am I going to do with the guys I had that comprised my shield platoon? I got like 9 squads of guys with my old infantry list. I'm feeling fucked, what do I do more experienced guard players?

As was noted after I posted that, troop Scions are arguably a better version of carapace vets.

I'm reserving judgement until I figure out if Scions are still able to take Chims or if we're stuck with the shit-box Taurox/overcosted T-Prime.

They come base, but only work against other superheavies

Given the loss of templates that's the very least they could possibly do.

I'm not going to say the Shadowsword is shit (I could never say that about the tank whose Space Marine/Epic model was the literal reason I started playing guard more than 20 goddamn years ago) but it's still a nerf.

Any word on taking allies in 8th edition??

Strategic bombers and interceptors flying circles around 48" boards is always gonna be silly anyways.

No more firing from open hatches on Chimerae. Sad!

All armies are now allied detachments to the primary detachment which must comprise at least 75% of total points/power count and consist entirely of Chadmarines.

That was my thinking there just isn't time to eat through 300 wounds.
Yeah. there's a detachment that requires 3 heavy and a HQ. Hq can be a tank.

You can potentially run an all Leman Russ army.

Not sure how good it would be this ed.

>Carapace
Carapace was a point sink last ed. 30pts to marginally increase the survivability of a 100ish point unit.

I'm thinking it's for Ogryns. If they're infantry.

Was thinking the same thing.
Minium sized rough raiders can be pretty mobile special weapon guys. 54pts for plasma or dual flamers.

>All armies are now allied detachments to the primary detachment which must comprise at least 75% of total points/power count and consist entirely of Chadmarines.

well, looks like I'll be taking out a loan to buy a new chad marine army

I was looking at mortars. They don't seem that great, but a HWS with them is all of 27 pts. They're so cheap it's mad.

I wish RR could be vets and have BS 3+. Flamers aren't bad, but if you can get the charge off I think lances are still better.

Also, lances are reusable! Just only on the turn of the charge. Then again, if they don't wipe the enemy in one go they're fucked, so it doesn't really matter.

I think someone said Ogryn and Bullgryn can't do orders since they don't have the tag.

It was 15 points. 75 base for 10 guys with 4+ armor and BS4 wasn't bad at all.

They'll probably be back in the dedicated codex later. We're missing a few options here and there that are the kind of things that would be left out of an initial placeholder codex.

For example vehicles are missing a lot of their gear, as are officers. We also don't have our relics and whatnot.

Jesus Christ that's so cheap. So fucking expensive to buy too. 3 Mortars costs more dollars than points.

so i noticed that priests give +1 attack to squads, i guess thats not so bad of a nerf

That makes IMPERATOR VULT list even better, actually. Crusaders with 3 attacks each could shred heavy infantry.

Straken also does that for Catachan regiments. All you have to do is say your guys are "Catachan" for the purposes of orders and the Regiment tag. Suddenly you have 3 Attacks for your Conscript blobs and 4 Attacks for your Power Weapon sergeants.

The +1 wound and reusable lance are neat, but they only get to use it once in combat, since the chain sword and trampling hooves are their own attacks.

It shouldn't be that bad. You only really need to guys to stand on a base next to it. You can use the kit+ some more standard guard for a bunch of HWS.

Wait, you HAVE to use all weapons?

I was thinking about doing that + the extra round of combat order.

Don't know if Conscripts with 6 attacks are worth it though, with S3 and Ws 5+

Nope. The Trampling hooves and chainsword both have "Make 1 additional attack WITH THIS WEAPON" instead of just giving +1 attacks.

I still don't get how that order works. Why not just do First Rank Second Rank Fire instead of that melee order with Conscripts? After all, if you're that close to issue the combat order, you would be getting 4 Lasgun shots per Conscript. Then you can charge after. The Lasguns and their fists hit the same amount and you can charge after firing all of that.

I did that with some old Mortars. I have the Mortar on a base and a guy with the mortar arm next to it. Should I just use them on the normal bases or should I order some of the HWT bases?

oh, for some reason I thought they had 3 attacks. Nvm.

That's still a buff, I guess.

All around I don't think we've had it too bad, new Russ is pretty gay but punisher and executioner are still good, so no worries.

I am making a new personal policy of not giving my money to gw for units they suddenly made a must have. No way am I going out and buying another 5+ heavy weapons squads. Chinaman is going to be a good friend I think.

Taurox Prime can only be boarded by Tempestus and Comissars.

Chimera can be boarded by any AM model - including Tempestus models

more seriously - every detachment must be made up of one faction. But that faction could be, for example, "Imperium".

The only issue is a lot of character buff auras only work within more focused faction.

And you can have Imperium and Chaos and Orks (or whatever) in the same army so long as they're in separate detachments

>Bought Celestine when she came out as a cool HQ for my guard army
>8e rolls around

Cool, looks like I'll just sit her on the shelf until plastic sisters maybe get released.

>overcosted T-Prime
96 points for 28 BS4 shots

that shit-box is going to delete squads

That and the baneblade with the volcano cannon are the best buffed units this edition I think. That thing is going to send whatever you point it at straight to the shadow realm, it's quite possible to instagib a knight with it.

She has the imperial tag, she can be an he for your Guard.

Hq I meant. Phone posting.

I think we have a real edge in the character game. We have access to shitloads of cheap characters that can be made quite hitty (for guard) on a budget. And they buff our squads. More than that though we are really good at killing enemies characters as well. Take lots of cheap mortars, basilisks etc and remove enemy snipers from the field turn 1. Then your characters can do their thing with impunity while our ratlings go to work on theirs. Looks pretty nice.

But you pay for all those sister only buffs that you don't get anything out of.

That's fine she gives all AM guys a 6++ if they are close I think. She's cool and strong.

She can be guard hq and also she can provide guard invulnerable saves

You realize that guard are going to be swimming in characters right? Most officers and commissars are going to be in the 20-30pt range. Commissars and Officers also have at 3-4 wounds a piece. So these are models that if you have even half a brain you're going to have multiples of, spread out throughout the army. It'll statistically take several snipers to ensure each officers death.

Unless your opponent runs something stupid like 60 sniper scouts, you should be able to keep at least some of your officers alive. You're also acting like there is no such thing as cover and ways to hide your officer out of sight.

So for 20pts to buff not just the conscripts, but all the units around him, you'd have to be completely insane to not bring commissars for infantry guard.

I don't think you read the same book we did, because if you had half a brain you wouldn't be arguing this.

You can only use the order on something that's already stuck in combat. If you fall back you're not shooting(without that other order, which would stop using FRFSRF)

They could always take chimeras, what are you on about?

What's carapace going to save you from that Flak wouldn't? The only reason most people brought it was to mitigate plasma and vehicle explosion results, both of which cause mortal wounds now and ignore armor.

It's for a unit already locked in, notice it says a unit within 1" of an enemy unit. It lets you strike with a unit engaged in close combat before the enemy can. Essentially it's a counter charge in your turn without having to break combat and charge back in.

honestly for how cheap they are, at D6 hits at S4 you'd kind of have to be crazy to not try a couple out, especially since they get access to orders.

This guy gets it. Imperial Guard players will live and die by their characters. We just have access to so many that it'll be damn near impossible for other armies to shut them down without ignoring the rest of the army.

I'd get bases they're pretty cheap.

I'm confused. So you give that order to a unit locked in combat so they fight as if they were in the fight phase during the shooting phase, but then when the fight phase comes they get to fight again?
Does that essentially give you 2 rounds of combat on your turn?

Seems like it, I think there are other units in the game that are allowed to do multiple close combat rounds.

Khorne bezerkers get to fight twice in the fight phase if I remember right.

Unless there's a specific rule in the main book that prevents you from doing close combat twice I don't see why you couldn't.

>I'm confused. So you give that order to a unit locked in combat so they fight as if they were in the fight phase during the shooting phase, but then when the fight phase comes they get to fight again?
Yes.
I don't see it getting used a lot, because guard doesn't have any good cc units.

This is why I'm doing a 50 man Conscript blob with a Priest and Straken. 5+ to hit sure but it will be silly fun.

main use would be for conscript units locked in close combat. However, remember that enemy units can consolidate into squads after they win a close combat. This means you'll usually have intact infantry squads locked in combat even though the enemy hasn't swung yet from consolidating last turn. This lets you "charge" them even though you're locked in and normally wouldn't get to do so.

If you've got enough characters with power weapons and plasma pistols sprinkled throughout your line, they can also join in off of this if I read the rules right, and would actually give you a pretty good chance of beating the enemy close combat unit before it could swing.

Remember, YOU fight as if it was the close combat phase. Says nothing about the enemy doing so. This order will actually be quite handy for your second line after the screening units get eating in the initial combat phase against armies like orks and Tyranids.