/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General - Loyalist Edition

>Dantioch and Polux, sitting in a tree
No kidding. Guy Haley laid it on thiiiiiiick at the end of Pharos.

My suggestion would be work on the staples. Tactical Squads, dedicated transports, generic terminators, etc. Units that stand the test of time will be perfectly fine whatever happens. Specialized stuff is what is under the most threat.

HERESY IT IS

Well hey, maybe I'll get lucky and my Lernaeans will get a buff

Good choice.

Just wanted to say that plastic EC user is an inspiration and I intend to cook up a small detachment of them once my IW are reasonably rounded out.

Ok, so what models do you already have in hand/assembled/unbuilt?

Do all three, Alpha Legion Primaris marines.

I think I'm getting there now??? I love my Custodes but even I admit my collection is getting too large. The new Telemon Dreadnought, the pair of Orion Gunships I'm gonna get, and squad of new Terminators make it even heavier on me.

25 Custodian Guard
20 Sentinel Guard
10 Hetaeron Guard
10 Sagittarum Guard
6 Agamatus Jetbikes
3 Caladius Grav-Tanks
2 Coronus Grav-Carriers
4 Pallas Grav-Attacks
2 Contemptor-Galatus
2 Contemptor-Achillus
5 Shield Captains/Tribunes
1 Ixion Hale
1 Oblivion Knight-Centura
10 Prosecutors
10 Vigilators

It's honestly nuts right now. I have to paint the 10 Hetaeron, 10 Sentinels, 1 Caladius, and all the Sisters save for the Knight-Centura.

By the Dark Gods, how much did that cost??

Oh shit hmmmm.

Well, each squad of 5 Custodians cost me $30-35 on Ebay, and 3 models in the whole army are recasts, so it's very pricey and that's kind of counting separate bits I bought.

It's looking to be around $2300 now. Going to go up soon too. I'm not sure about paint costs, however.

How many points would you guesstimate that is? If you fielded them all at once.

Not counting my Knights and Reaver?

Optimal loadout looks to be 9,000~ points.

I haven't built any of my army. And I'm coming up to enough marines to make an entire chapter.

I did a thing.

This brings jejs to my heart. Checked.

I think I'm close to content with my marines, until something new comes out that I like the look of. Other 2 armies are close to what I want as well.

Anons, how would you fix breachers, Stubborn vets, moritats and destroyers? It seems like they're just in need of a points cut, or perhaps a better cap on chain fire for moritats or two attacks for destroyers, to me but I'd be interested in hearing some other ideas.

Moritats shouldn't have a cap. Especially if plasma still overheats on a 1 and 2 (provided you save as you go).

>breachers
Reroll armour saves against ap5 weapons in addition to their 5+
>stubborn vets
Give them fearless proper and idunno, maybe a stubborn banner for an aura?
>Moritats
Plasma explodes for real on any one, instagibbing him, shots are uncapped
>destroyers
Give them more hague-convention-breaching tools, cut base costs by 25, extra dudes by 5, and make jetpacks cheaper

Is this accurate?

I've come to terms with the fact that I'm likely to never actually play a legit game of 30k (or even 40k) due to living 2 states away from anybody I know. Not that they'd play anyway, but after being into the lore/art/model aspect since 2000 and never actually playing a game, I'm okay with amassing a bookshelf's worth of whatever the fuck I want.

Right now I have what would be about enough for a ZM list of my XX. 15 vets, 6 Tartaros, 10 Destroyers, 10 Recon... random other 40k things.

I may never get to roll dice in HH 7.5, but at least I can square off 5 Space Wovles against 5 Rampagers against 5 White Scars against 5 Ashen Circle just because I enjoy the models and painting.

only Fulgrim seems accurate. Everybody is either wrong or sort of applies.

I feel like boarding shields and hardened armor simply don't merit the additional costs for Breachers. Though, in a way, I feel like it is connected with how Tactical Squads are priced as well (and how poorly they perform for that cost). If Breachers costed any less, there'd be no reason to take Tactical Squads outside of massed FotL attacks and cheap objective holders. But if Troop-choice Marines as a whole were lowered in price, I think they would all see more use overall.

>russ
>not chaotic neutral

>guilliman
>not lawful neutral

>alpharius
>not chaotic lawful
can't fault Ferrus, Sang, Horus or Khan though

Would omegon be Evil good then?

I like it, user. 100% agree with it.

To be fair, alignment charts are garbage, since none of the Primarchs are exclusively 'one concept'. Even Angron has more than one side to him, even if he has fewer than any of his brothers.

I'd only consider Fulgrim correct if we're talking post-possession Fulgrim. If we're talking about pre-Laer Fulgrim, he's easily Neutral or Lawful Good.

I appreciate the sentiment. I'm just doing what I can with what little I can afford, and the limited scrap bits I possess.

>>russ
>>not chaotic neutral
Filthy witch detected.

Made some more Pyrithite Spears and a Paragon Spear. Thoughts?

hopefully they dont release the spears tonight on the FW website, that'd be awkward. Also rate my 2500 Custodes/Loyalist WE list I tried to make it look pretty

If they do it's ok.

Also drop the Armored Ceramite on the Custodes vehicles; replace with Extra Armor instead. Take more bodies for minimum squads of 5 and consider taking an Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon or two for the Caladius' for the same 215 points cost per model.

I'd switch Guilliman and Sanguinius. There's no way Roboute is anything but lawful. I like the rest.

Yeah, Breachers are hard to justify right now. The cost reduction for Tacticals and Vets in the last red book hurt them even more. Recon squads don't work well either, and Support squads with plasma/melta are hard to justify next to vets with combi-plasma/melta.

Breachers are best at holding objectives or helping tarpit big combats; they don't do anything else well anymore and it's a damn shame.

I always have a squad in my Imperial Fists and even they struggle.

I think I liked the one where the skull was removed and the barrel was set into the gap better. Still, pretty good.

I did try doing that, but you have to shave down the Melta barrel so heavily to get it to fit, and that it became really frustrating since the axe's inner plastic is so soft and thin that it flexes with any force applied.

Guilliman is willing to turn his back on the Emperor more than people think, at least in the BL books characterizations

He even is suspicious that the Emperor knew about the whole Heresy and intentionally scattered the primarchs in advance. Sangy tells him to not be so suspicious of father. Guilliman says his father was konor.

Honestly Guilliman always seemed weirdly rational. He recognizes Big E as his creator and mentor, but views Konor as his father. He knows that he's a weapon of war but wanted to be more and became a strong diplomat and tactician. He seems like a rational leader of the Imperium because he's very similar to the E in the sense that he sees it as "No gods and no masters".

I'm glad he's not a Stu since he has lots of flaws, but is able to overcome them when needed. It's very welcoming to see him lose his shit and then restore himself to lead.

He's no traitor, he's just very aware of the climate around him and is insanely adaptable. If the Imperium fell he has the Imperium Secundus ready to help or fall back to.

>he's not a Stu since he has lots of flaws
Does Guilliman have any proper flaws? I can't really think of any beyond 'my biggest weakness is I am a perfectionist'. You could say prideful and that he always thinks he is right but that applies to most primarchs.

>If the Imperium fell he has the Imperium Secundus ready to help or fall back to.
This is something that I agree with, too many people see Imperium Secundus and say 'hurr durr girlyman just wanted to rule'. Imperium Secundus was a backup option, do people really think that if everything turned out fine at the palace he would throw a tantrum and pout about daddy taking away his toys.

too naive to realize a fellow Primarch could actually turn on the Emperor. Even as Calth burned around him he tried to reason with Lorgar, and it almost killed him and his Legion.

Not very imaginative or flexible - he's good at improving on what other people have done, but actually creating his own shit seems to be difficult for him.

I think "Good" is definitely stretching it for Russ. He accomplishes his task and doesn't care who gets hurt in the process. I'd put him at Chaotic Neutral. He isn't malicious enough to be Evil.

Is that true though? He has his favourite methods but he can easily adapt to new threats and tactics. Like when him and Corax were playing their war simulations and Corax was able to beat him a few times using tactics and units he wasn't familiar with until Guilliman shaped up and beat him every time after that.

Fair enough that Guilliman dropped the ball massively at Calth but he did have a slight excuse in being betrayed by his brother, told that 3 more brothers were dead including one of his best buds and it turns out that magic and daemons are real. Plus he spent half the battle floating about in space after being sucked out of a window.

Depends how much you stress being loyal I guess - for all his faults, there's no doubting Russ was incredibly loyal.

>Sangy tells him to not be so suspicious of father. Guilliman says his father was konor.
I've always found it weird for Primarchs who were born and raised by human parents to call the Emperor father.

That's actually one of the things I was referring to - he only beats Corax in the sims once he analyses and to some extent adopts Corax's tactics.
And then codifies it, later putting it to all the Legions as a "look at this cool thing that works" - something he's much more able to do than Corax, given the disparity of their records

Point is though, like with Pert's Termies, he's not an inventor

Wasn't it only really Guilliman who had a mother and father in the traditional sense? Most other primarchs had something more like a teacher - student relationship.

The primarchs weren't born to human parents, most were found and adopted. The Emperor IS their father. Guilliman was just the one to go "fuck who made me, my adoptive dad was the one who raised me and treated me like family".

>He even is suspicious that the Emperor knew about the whole Heresy and intentionally scattered the primarchs in advance.

What? What sense does that even make? How would scattering them prevent the heresy? Especially since all he did was go right back out to find them again. All scattering them does is keep them out of his guidance and influence.

He suspected that the Emperor did both things, not that they were related.

What made him suspect either? The emperor stands to gain nothing from either one.

Primarch "childhoods":

Guilliman - adopted by a lord, had a mother and father
Dorn - adopted by ice-lord patriarch he considered "grandfather"
Sang - raised by a tribe
Ferrus - beating up monsters, then was demigod and sage to the clans
Corax - raised communally among slaves/terrorists in the mines
Vulkan - fostered by a blacksmith
Russ - wolf mother, then adopted by viking lord
Lion - Tarzan innawoods, then adopted by knights
Khan - ???

Lorgar - raised by a priesthood, most notably Kor Phaeron
Angron - nearly killed, raised a slave
Fulgrim - raised by a pair of labourers
Horus - ???, but had a ton of time with the Emprah
Alpharius - ??? ???
Perturabo - Dammekos tried to raise him as a son, didn't return the favour. Had a sister
Magnus - psychic chats with the Emprah, mentored by Amon
Mortarion - raised by a necromancer as a weapon of war
Curze - eating corpses, killing people and bad dreams

Khan was adopted into some minor clan on a world controlled by a massive warlord, proceeded to unite the clans and fuck up the warlord.

I don't know about the Heresy part, but Guilliman was incredibly suspicious of how the planets they were scattered to "randomly" seemed to match up with traits inherent to their geneseed.

My heart weeps for you user.

I myself have a local group of at least 14 active players. We're all veteran nerds with money who lost interest in 40k as soon as BaC came out.

Why not try going to something like an adepticon heresy event once a year? That would probably be something I would do if I were a murrican.

He's bad at making friends, most other primarchs either despised him or were very neutral.

Thought Khan was suppose to go to Chemos and Fulgrim to go to Chogoris?

Didn't Laurie Golding post a Wall-'o-Text that explained how the Emperor - MIGHT - have thought? I think I have it, will upload if found

Here it is

Am I the only one that thinks this is basically what the Custodes grav rhino should be?

Finally read the Dark Angels books
Lion-o is an autistic dick
Luther did nothing wrong

I like how alpharius is two ??? ???

The fuck is this?
>hold mah beer

This is killing me. Custodes used Grav-Rhinos in older fluff (I suspect their new vehicles are an evolution of that, what with them being Terminator-sized now) but at the very least SoS could still have used them rather than the dick shaped Star Gate-wearing thing FW shat out. You had better believe I'm going to convert/proxy one of these babies.

Also, isn't the fact that advanced anti-grav engines are beyond the VAST majority of the Imperium/Forge Worlds to produce a thing anymore?

>Hold my beer Malcador
>Gets ducttaped to death chair
>FML

Mars-build, but we don't know what Cawl did yet, the sneaky bastard.

I still don't get this. MoM shows that emps can get off the throne for the low, low price of 1000 psykers. Why did he need to sacrifice malcador so he could go job to horus?

Maybe after a galaxy wide war and a massive siege he wasn't exactly swimming in psykers.

1000 Psykers collected from across an entire Segmentum over a not-insignificant amount of time. What I'm thinking is that the SoS Black Fleet either got rekt during the naval battle above Terra, or couldn't get out/in with all the Traitors about.

That's just bad planning on his part, he should have kept some back for the horus showdown. I guess we can't have emps making good decisions or showing any sign of intelligent planning though.

Goddamn it this triggers me

It took the SoS a shitload of time to collect the 1000 Psykers and they BARELY bought him 24 hours. Considering the SoS had scoured the Imperium for Psykers for some 200 years, presumably they were a rarity by then. Since they didn't just grab a bunch of Terrans we can assume there aren't any significant numbers of Psykers ready amongst the populace.

As for why he used up all 1K in one go, remember that time isn't constant or even necessarily linear in the Webway. Presumably he wanted some sort of safety margin, WHICH IS A SIGN OF GOOD PLANNING. Considering that he seals off the Webway Gate at the end of MoM, the Traitors probably did something to fuck with it.

Also, the Imperium doesn't mean jack shit to Him. He even says so; the Astartes can be recreated, the Imperium can be re-conquered, but recreating the Webway is beyond even Him.

If Terra gets devoured by daemons then Horus doesn't matter. Chill with the
>hurr durr the Emperor is so dumb
circle jerk for a moment.

>200 odd years to collect 1000 psykers
Eh. It's hard to correlate that with the fact they can supply him with 1000 a day, every day, in the 41st millenium. Maybe the psyker mutation got more common over time or something, but that's still a huge disparity.

>the psyker mutation got more common over time
Thats been fluff since at least third ed, humanity is slowly spiralling its way towards psychic evolution without the Emperor's guiding hand

I didn't say it took them 200 years to collect 1000. We know they hunted down Psykers during most/all of the Great Crusade, but it isn't entirely clear what happened to them or the Psykers tithed to Terra. Maybe they got blammed, or used up by the Emperor some other way. My point is, by the time of Magnus' Folly, they're something of a rarity (unless your particular world has the attention of the Ruinous Powers, I suppose, and a bunch of latent Psykers jizz the Materium a new asshole). Also, keep in mind that the SoS couldn't hunt across the entirety of the Imperium. The 1000 guys were from 1 Sector IIRC

>it's a hover vehicle

Imagine my surprise...

Sure, but less retarded looking.

Either he streamlined the tech through sheer ingenuity or retrofitted the production process after being inspired by xeno designs. NuZorback basically has the grav stuff tacked on the bottom. The design philosophy going forward in m42 is proly going to be of a roughshod DIY nature as the Imperium tries to create new weapon platforms to counter evolving threats.

The chassi looks good but the turret is garbage since GW loves slapping a million things on models.

Yeah, it's starting to get orky with all those guns.
>and now we'll add a missile launcher
>and another missile launcher
>and ANOTHER missile launcher

Don't forget the missile launcher

>tfw waiting to see if FW updates this Friday like it has been for the past several
>tfw want to get my fuckin' Custodes Termies

Well we know he used Tau technology for the Redemptor plasma cannon.

What the fuck is this thing? WHO LET A LAND RAIDER FUCK A SPEEDER AGAIN?!

I found ADB's malice in the E himself admitting defeat and failure. Am I wrong?

Yes.
Chaos winning isn't something he invented, it's been a staple of the lore for several editions, since 4-5 ED at least. Keep in mind that He can't see all possible futures, and has foreseen Humanity's extinction if the Webway couldn't be salvaged.

When you cannot find a historical incident of an army like that participating

ADB has a chaos boner and very obvious boner. That's all you need to know.

And what's wrong with LGBTQ+ characters in the far future that aren't slaanesh worshippers