Tyranids 8th edition

7e hormagaunts only get the 3 inches extra when they don't charge. 8e gaunts always get the 2 extra, and can get another 2+D6 more with upgrades and support. 8e hormagaunts can do turn 1 charges.

Toxin sacs are + 1 damage on 6s to wound, the rerolling 1s is just a rule they have.

The stacking of move + double advance + charge is something I hadn't considered, so fair enough. But still, why cast the ability on hormagaunts when you can cast it on genestealers?

read the leaks you cock

Because your particular army has hormagaunts not stealers for one reason or another. The stealers cost like twice as many points.

Carnifex bad?
67 points base, 20 for the scything talons and 9 for bio plasma.
Okay Kiddo I'm taking my 9 screamerkillers and thats final.

In all fairness, due to how the rules work, the Pyrovore has a 5+1d6 movement on every turn except ones you want to charge with, since it has zero penalty for running and shooting. Not QUITE as bad as it looks at first glance.
Probably still not very good, but might get it out of being a complete joke for once between that and the 10 inch range on the flamespurt

What are you building
>Nothing yet
> I'm working on starting a tyranid army for 8th.
What are you working on?
>Planning on my army for 8th
What's your opinion about new bug's rules?
>Breddy gud
>I'm excited to start nids, I'm tired of marines.

Here's my current 2000 point list idea:

HQ:
Old One Eye
Flyrant with Talons and HVC

Elites:
Malceptor with Sything Talons

Troops:
2 squads of 20x Hormaguants:
-Toxinsacs and Adrenal Glands
2x Squads of 20x Termegaunts
-Devourers
20x Gargoyles
3x Tyranid Warriors
Lashwip, Bone Sword, 1 VC

Heavy Support:
Carnifex Brood (2 carnifex)
Monsterous Sything Talons
Bio-Plasma

Tarnofex with rapture cannon

Exocrine with Bio-plasmic cannon

Statistically you'd average 1 wound shooting bio-plasma at 12" range.

You're averaging around 1 wound with 3D in melee no matter what weapon you choose plus a 50% chance to do a mortal wound.

Carnifexes are trash.

I prefer Carniflex with 4x deathspitters

Dakkafex is back

>107 pts for 12 shots 18" 4+ to hit 3+ to wound with -1AP

>What's your opinion about new bug's rules?
It really isn't that much of an internally and externally consistent redesign/balance

there're wording and pricing errors
>scything talons are free for hive fleets genestealers while they cost 3pts for cults purestrains genestealers
>the strangleweb lacks its special rules
>scything talons confer at least twice the attacks when applying their rules as written
>monstrous rending claws can be taken by a tyrant and are free, while being almost always better than the talons
poor design choices
>wings still don't force a tyrant to occupy one arm slot with scything talons
>devourers and deathspitters fill the same role, the better, latter one, separated only by a slight points difference
>the mawloc doesn't have the option to disengage and THEN burrow, left to be stranded on the field by a charging and then disengaging force
>matched battle rules also limit its full potential to 1, perhaps 2 uses at max
>genestealers are faster than hormagaunts for some reason
>boneswords are worse than power swords for some reason
>attacks, with most tail biomorphs, are obligatory
>the harpy outperforms the the hive crone in almost every role
>the toxicrene and the haruspex step in each other's role
>the toxicrene doesn't even exude a spore cloud nor can be synaptic
>all other factions have all their bits represented as options while the tyranids still lack all carapace biomorphs and mouth biomorphs
>underwhelming psychic capacity of a trio of zoanthropes
>underwhelming psychic capacity of the maleceptor
>underwhelming support ability from a trio of venomthropes
>maleceptor still doesn't have the warp field and its psychic tendrils made from the shadow in the warp don't even have the same range as the shadow in the warp
>our flyers don't fill the flyers slot

it's an improvement, but there're serious risks of many options staying again away from the fields again

also the position of points is a clusterfuck

you forgot
>no viable anti-armor/MC shooting choice

Actually, I take that back, hive guard with impaler cannons are pretty decent.

>what are mortal wounds spam with hive guard and biovores?
also the exocrine is a beast regardless of target and I'm sure the rupture cannon too has a place

the real disappointment in this regard is the AP of the venom cannon, were it a little higher and it would look like a proper competitor with the strangler

What happened? When I went to bed we were saying we were one of the strongest armies in the game, now suddenly we're trash again?

Some units are trash, some units are good. It's a very inconsistent index.

>we were saying we were one of the strongest armies in the game
grey knights can spam quad lascannon/quad heavy bolter venerable dreadnoughts hitting at 2+ all the time and teleporting around the map every turn with gate of infinity for 210/144 points a pop respectively. Nids are not going to beat that.

We can bring 360 Hormaguants comfortably I'd like to see the Dread Knight fight that.

>>the toxicrene doesn't even exude a spore cloud nor can be synaptic
It never did those though.

>now suddenly we're trash again?
everyone is trash at something, we're just discussing our trash at the moment, generally speaking this iteration allows for multiple viable builds

anyone found a way to justify lashwips and boneswords over other melee builds for warriors?

You can only cast a spell once per turn, so they can teleport 1 dread per turn. Assuming it isn't in close combat.

I never implied they did, I'm just saying that the change to 8th hasn't fixed certain design choices

>anyone found a way to justify lashwips and boneswords over other melee builds for warriors
Better AP and can still fight even if killed that turn by chargers.

the whole army can only cast any kind of spell once per turn?

Dreadnoughts cant equip two Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, they can only swap their fist for a missle launcher or twin autocannon.
That means either the Missle-Las loadout or the dual Autocannon loadout, which cost 165 and 156 respectively.

Also, due to matched play rules limiting one psychic power per turn, I don't think teleporting ranged dreadnoughts (with 48") will be that viable, especially when you could instead teleport that 6 shot asscan 24 shot hurricane bolter land raider crusader with a paladin squad inside instead.

>que evil laughter

Ok, but how is a mini not doing something it wasnt designed to do a problem?

In matched play yeah, excpet for smite.

damn you're right, I didn't see that caveat.

Zoanthropes are beyond garbage, the are exactly as effective at putting out damage as any 1 model psyker unit in the game.

They do an extra d3 mortal wounds, plus heal themselves if you do the free upgrade for a neurothrope.

Besides in 6e/7e they cast as a single psyker anyway so its not really a change.

>They do an extra d3 mortal wounds, plus heal themselves if you do the free upgrade for a neurothrope.
you need at least 4 of them to get the extra d3

>Besides in 6e/7e they cast as a single psyker anyway so its not really a change.
they were cast as a single psyker, but each model in the squad got the shooting profile from warp blast on a successful cast

>wings still don't force a tyrant to occupy one arm slot with scything talons
This concerns me the most. I want this to be included in errata as fast as possible so I can buy a start collecting and know for sure if it was GW mistake or we have to alternate tyrant model by ourselves

>They do an extra d3 mortal wounds
No they don't. You have to take 4 of them to get that and if ones dies they stop doing that. They're utter trash.

In 6th/7th edition they had Psychic Brood, which meant they fired a number of shots equal to the number of models in the brood, which was actually fairly powerful.

In 8th they have no advantage over any other psyker. They've gone backwards in effectiveness.

Its not a mistake, wings have never taken a weapon slot and shouldn't. Current mini even has weapon legs to keep to the 4 weapon limbs and 2 motive limbs thing.

because it ends up with no role that isn't performed by similar units

and it's also a spore cloud spewing monster that lead the assault of a swarm in its first canonical appearance in the fluff and yet has no spore cloud nor command or support ability of sort

what reason do I have to take it over the haruspex?

Everyone is forgetting about hormies super pilein. Remember you pile into the closest unit, not necessarily the unit you charged. Pop up a Tryon prime with a full blob of naked gaunts in front of a gunline and cast onslaught to let them move 8" in the shooting phase, move one 2" away from a unit and spread the rest out to cover as wide a net as possible. Then auto suceed your charge and eat overwatch from only one unit while piling in 6" to tie up whatever units were within 12" of the first unit. And you still have a Tryon prime ready to do stuff.

>wings still don't force a tyrant to occupy one arm slot with scything talons
Why would they and why should they? This strikes me as being some intense kind of autism about the hive tyrant kit.

>Current mini even has weapon legs to keep to the 4 weapon limbs and 2 motive limbs thing
I have always thought than Tyrant has 4 slots for upper limbs and if you pick wings you only have 2 free slots left for weapons

>Current mini even has weapon legs to keep to the 4 weapon limbs and 2 motive limbs thing.
the weapon legs are only scything talons

I want to see you equipping it with heavy venom cannon and bonesword+lashwhip without either it being a proxy, looking retarded or fitting both options in a single pair of arms.

Weapons and wargear in 40k do not go in "slots", that's not a thing.

>This strikes me as being some intense kind of autism about the hive tyrant kit.
some call it desire for consistency
but really, it's also a way to make both tyrant builds viable in their own way; what reason do I have to not give wings to a tyrant? before I had the option to give it a 2+ or it would preclude ever benefitting from the guards, now it can act like a normal tyrant except when it needs to be better.

You mean just like people did in 6th/7th edition with two sets of twin linked devourers, which are not something the model comes with and which would typically occupy 4 arms?

People have been modeling flying hive tyrants since fucking 3rd edition you utter moron.

>I have always thought than Tyrant has 4 slots for upper limbs and if you pick wings you only have 2 free slots left for weapons?

Why? The rules are clear that you can swap the default weapons for weapon X, Y or Z. At no point anywhere in the rules does it say that you swap scything talons for wings.

The Flying Hive Tyrant is specifically modelled so that the feet are scything talons, to make up for the fact that the wings take up arm slots on the model.

I'm just saying it strikes me as inconsistent with how GW is producing rules for its models, no need to insult user.

Restricting options for flying hive tyrants does not make a walking hive tyrant more viable, it just makes flying hive tyrants less viable.

Other armies don't have their HQ units restricted to certain types of weapons because they chose to take a jump pack.

You're asking for player choice to be reduced by placing arbitrary restrictions on something because you don't understand what you're talking about.

>The Flying Hive Tyrant is specifically modelled so that the feet are scything talons, to make up for the fact that the wings take up arm slots on the model.
Didn't knew that. I thought that Flyrant's ugly feet are just an aesthetic thing and you don't treat them as a weapons. I'm new here so sorry for stupid questions like this, just wanted to know what's going on

It is inconsistent and it has always been inconsistent. There has never been a point in time where hive tyrants had all of their wargear options in their kit. The expectation is that you either use the wargear options available in the kit, get to converting or wait for forgeworld to make something for you.

If this is a problem for you the solution that you should want is for GW to make kits that better represent the wargear available to your units. Not to demand that GW take away your wargear options.

Yeah it and the haruspex are both combat monsters, but the haruspex is more of a horde grinder and about 100 points more than the toxicrene which is better at demolishing heavy infantry.

Some overlap in roles is fine and even a good thing, it prevents monolist armies to have more than 1 solution for a particular problem.

If you want there to be a good reason to take a walking tyrant over a flying one the right answer is a greater difference in pricing between the two. But since in this edition flying is fucking nothing that difference wouldn't be justified.

My 3rd ed flyrant has single arm venom cannon, other hand sword and lashwip tail.

Okay, that's actually quite disgusting. Well done.

>it just makes flying hive tyrants less viable.
which would result in the walkrant having a role to fill where he isn't directly outperformed

>other armies
tyranids aren't other armies and tyrants aren't other HQs, but the problem stands the same with a similar monster that has the option for wings, the daemon prince.

when designing options you either design one to be the cheap choice or both having their own role.
in this case, I feel the walkrant being relegated to the cheap choice is a very disappointing thing for how iconic and prevalent it should feel.

I consider this bad design.

But user, there were no boneswords in 3rd edition.

Flying hive tyrants and walking ones aren't different units you stupid fuck, it's literally just a jump pack.

>which is better at demolishing heavy infantry.
How? the haruspex makes more attack with the ravenous mouth than its tentacles while having similar damage and AP, but on top of that it attacks with the claws which have a way greater strength, AP and damage

for not having the claws the toxicrene has the bonus of rerolling to wound and the toxic miasma, but the latter is intended for hordes, not armoured guys, while the former too lacks in the ap and damage of the claws

No but there have been since and i rearmed him in 5e.

Look, if you can't understand the point of warhammer beyond the rules before it you have no right to call others stupid fucks.

Anyone know where I can judt buy a bunch of Tyranid bits?

Nottingham

Mind to post pics?

The toxicrene will also shoot its tentacles, so on average it'll end up functionally doing more attacks than the haruspexs maw.
But the biggest difference price, toxicrene is just much cheaper for the job of killing lots of dudes

I live in America tho

If the threads still up ina few hours when i get home sure.

>hive crone ok tier

harpy can now do anything the crone does but better

Did you try any local 40k FB groups?

>shock cannon is s7 ap-1 dd3
>tentaclid and bioelectric pulse are s5 ap- d1

why is that? they're shooting the same bioelectric shit, the trygon doesn't even come with the mortal wounds rule

>The toxicrene will also shoot its tentacles
and the haruspex the tongue

while the toxicrene does an average of 3.5 more attacks with this attack to add to the 6 it already has it barely reach the average of 8 attacks of the maw+1 attack of the tongue, which on top of generating more attacks either have the same or higher stats

do each of them cast smite or does the whole unit cast smite once?

whats the purpose of the fleshborer hives?
is it just for killing masses of gaurdsmen/cultists/weaklings?
how likely is the 40 shots if you don't move to do any sort of damage to tougher units?

Is it wrong that I just want to play Old One Eye + Carnifexes vs Slambo + Catachan Jungle Fighters?

once

But again you can almost take another toxicrine for the price of the haruspex.

lol, that is beyond terrible

>40 shots
>hit on 4+
>20 hits
>wound on 5+
>~6.6 wounds
>no penetration nor multiple damage
it's roughly a pair of wounds against things like leman russ or the imperial knight

Well if you compare them to a psyker, 3 Zoanthropes are 120 points and a Space Marine Librarian in power armour is 115 (with power sword).

So for 5 points more you get

Zoans: T4 W3 5+ 3++
Librarian: T3 W4 3+

And for 40p more you get D3 additional mortal wounds to the blast, while you need to buy in a while new librarian to get that.

T4 for the Librarian*
W9 for the Zoans*

Sorry it's really hot here, can't focus.

to cast a very lackluster spell, you could take 4 biovores @ 96pts to have the same number of mortal wounds, but get to choose your target and at a longer range

i'm thinking, what are our options to delet tanks ? those rolling shit are gonna be a bother, and our MC can't any longer delet tanks once they get on CQC
hive guard of course, tyrannofex, toxin sac spam, but what else ?

But biovores don't give synapse or heal when they do damage. Zoans aren't tankhunters anymore, they seem like more of a durable synapse hub that occasionally does damage.

Tyrannofex, exocrine.

biovores are more able to hide and even there misses with their gun produce mortal wounds

a unit of three just puts out 1.9 mortal wounds a turn.

>a unit of zoanathropes three just puts out 1.9 mortal wounds a turn.

If you want to take a walkrant for non-rules reasons there is nothing preventing you from doing that.

you also forget that in the carnifex sheet, it isn't specified that he must make an attack with it's pincer tail
which told alot about how much thinking were put in the thing

Rupture cannon tyrannofexes, exocrine, biovores, CC tervigons can do some hurt, a pod of CC fexes running with OOE should do damage.

>a way to make both tyrant builds viable

one is more expensive and moves farther and the other is cheaper and moves shorter. That's what makes both builds viable.

For MOST of the tail weapons, it seems they were figured into the attacks - yeah, one has to be made with it, but one attack was allotted to it for that.
But then they forgot to give that rule to a few like the thresher scythe and the biostatic rattle so you can just ignore them and go with your regular weapons instead
There's also the sporocyst not being armed with a spore node and having no way to get it but anyone who tries to RAW that is an asshat

So is it true that we need to pay for tervigon's teramagants? if so, what are we then actually paying for in tervigon's cost? Where is that rule written? any faq coming?

tervigon gets to "revive" 10 termagaunts a turn for free. I imagine thats what we are paying for.

They essentially "summon" gaunts, in matched play you cannot summon units beyond the maximum points value of your army, so you have to "set aside" points to use for summoning.

It's in the rulebook.