Chaos Space Marines in 8th

Well, it was pretty gross before. Also I like being able to assault with it even if vector strike and torrent flamer was way too good before

>No alpha legion stuff

I mean, I knew it wouldn't be there, this is just the placeholder codex till proper army books get released, but still it's kind of sad.

Oh well, I'll just paint my dudes and play my other armies while I wait for a proper codex with legion rules to drop.

Plus since my guys are all from Betrayl at Calth if I really wanted to use them I guess I could run them as loyalists with heresy era gear in the meantime.

It was one of the only things propping our army up, user.

>actually thinking undivided Legions will get support anytime soon
Nigga, the majority of WHFB armies are still using their free PDF's.

Laughing at all GWs damage control on Facebook from people pointing out how shitty the new TSons are.

>termies teleport in turn 1
>sorc activates ZA WARUDO
>terminators move twice
>fire mass flamers, wipe out a squad
>charge a second squad
>strike first with powerfists

world eaters edition:
>termies teleport in turn 1
>fire mass flamers, wipe out a squad
>charge a second squad
>succeed because khorne banner re-rolls failed charges
>strike first with powerfists

thousand sons edition:
>termies teleport in turn 1
>sorc activates ZA WARUDO
>terminators move twice
>fire mass inferno bolt machineguns, wipe out a squad
>charge a second squad
>do okay
>act smug about having 4+ save against plasma

*the flamer thing for khorne wouldn't work because they only have 8" range, they'd have to use plasma instead

A lot of things that were shit are semi-decent now. But our OP stuff got nerfed too. Its overall a massive buff but I still anticipate being rolled by SM and Eldar players.

At least I'll be able to field Chaos Space Marines and not as many Helldrakes as I can get though.

The defiler still appears to be shit :<

Warp talons actually seem good. Basically anything with deep strike and getting warp timed are gonna sucker punch whatever they please.

Not sure what to think yet.
Abaddon looks like auto-include unless you are playing a cult army. Glad to see that he is viable to use now, but don't know how to feel about having to plan an army about a named character. Feels like viable play-styles are a little restricted, but probably less than before
Terminators, bersekers, maulerfiends and hellbrutes all look really good. Obliterators and mutilators are kind of overshadowed by other stuff and I was hoping to use them in 8th.
Overall looking forward how things develop.

Thousand Sons got utterly gutted. Everybody got their invuln nerfed. Exalted's lost the relics that made them worthwhile, as well as their bombardment. No Tzeentch lore plus dumbfuck matched play restrictions mean most of your casters sit there with a thumb up their ass. Ahriman is a bitchboy. All is Dust is extremely marginal due to the prevalence of multi-wound weapons. Squad psykers are crappy.

Even our daemon allies got gutted.

I love playing with abaddon, and I'm pretty stoked about his 8th ed incarnation.

Abaddon deepstriking with a horde pf Obliterators looks funny.

The fuck is a Chaos HellWright? (bottom left)

Yeah he seems really powerful if he gets in melee.
I was thinking something like delivering a couple squads of berserkers in rhinos and then deepstriking terminators with Abaddon in there for the buff for everyone. Could be one hell of an alpha strike force.

That would be some kind of dark mech magos.

>Hell Wright on Dark Abeyant

Dead giveaway. "Abeyants" are the cupola doodads admech magos ride around on.

>Maulerfiend
>currently shit

Its shit now user

Ya he's like a one man epicenter. Re rolling hits and auto passing morale. He's a pretty serious adversary. And the way combat works now looks like you can make 4 attacks with the talon and 1+d6 attacks with the sword.

He has 6 attacks base, so 5 + 1d6 rerolling fails. Also extra attacks for every 6 he rolls against Imperials. That's a lot of damn attacks.

Maulefiends and Defilers are 3+/5++ with a lot of attacks and weapon options. They also heal a wound every turn. Get some character in there for the rerolls (like Abaddon) and they are look like very good vehicles.

Can you attach characters to units in 8th ?

Nope, but characters with 9 or less wound can only be shot at if they are the closest model.

Typhus became better, I heard, which makes me glad.
What about Termies? still shit?

Typhus is very good and cheap on points.
I think terminators got a lot better now that you can deepstrike without scattering. Teleport where needed and just blow up targets with combi-meltas that can fire both modes at the same time, instead of choosing which and once.

Actually the more I read the rules, the better CSM looks.
All the tools are there and many of them are incredibly strong with 8th edition rules. It may actually be secretly OP or at least back to 3rd edition level.

>3rd edition
Not without Legion rules, user.

Is anybody else really annoyed you can't take 3 man terminator teams anymore? I split all mine between different gods and made some into characters so I don't have enough for an actual squad that would work.

Under-strength squads are allowed though.

Yeah, but you still have to pay the extra points anyway

>can fire both modes at the same time
I thought the thing with the new weapon rule is that choice weapons still only get to make one choice? That way missile launchers aren't throwing out frags and fraks at the same time and so on.

Do combi's get an exception or something?

Do monstrous creatures need to be fully in cover and be 50% obscured to get the ruins bonus or just 50% obscured?

I'm thinking about how I can use my Warpsmith and a massed Daemon Engine assault. Would Rhinos be worth it to protect my CSM squads anymore or are they just too expensive?

Transports are amazing. I had a game where 1 rhino held a choke point against 20 haunts and a carbides for 3 turns

Gaunts and a carnifex. Autocorrect.

So are the new rubric marines primaris scaled?

Yes combis are the exception, weps with different modes have to choose one, combos can choose 1 or both but with a hit modifier

Anybody else like how Daemon princes can have a Warp bolter now? It's not very impressive, but ill enjoy being able to have a ranged weapon outside the Burning Brand

Combo weapons can fire both modes the same round at -1 BS
One model per unit can forgo their shooting to throw a grenade

Neato. And aren't combi's no longer 1-use only these days? This is a huge boon for chaos and my Sisters.

>One model per unit can forgo their shooting to throw a grenade *or fire their pistol(s)
The last part I remember from the rule book. Grenades and pistols are both replacements for using all your other guns.

Same here, it at least gives them something to do.

I mean. He still shanks himself, but now he does it every time he fights.

New to CSM, gonna get Deathguard from the starter and got gifted the DV CSM's. What list can I run between the two?

I'm in wait and see mode until the legion rules get republished. Most of the units seem like more generic versions of what loyalists get.

Termies all taking special weapons is gonna be pretty killer though, still disappointment that so many units are still saddled with the "must have X amount of dudes to get y weapon options" shtick or are hard capped on how many weapons they can take.

Havoks still stuck 4 weapons per squad, with the champion not able to take one. That's one of those lessons I hope they take away from Horus heresy, just let every member of a heavy squads all buy weapons (like long fangs or those plasma gun NuMarines), or give the other guys some "weapon assistant" rule that gives a marginal bonus to heavy weapon guys if the non-heavy goons don't shoot.

It would be neat if chaos at the very least just got whatever the max number of heavy/special weapons per unit at base size so MSU were 1 special weapon up on Marine Chapters, or gave those big marine blobs 1 weapon per 5 guys, instead 2 for the first ten then nothing else.

Chaos has a lot of room to grow and become very unique, I'm hoping they finally ditch the idea of "Standardizing Chaos" the way they do it now by having most of their units follow restrictions as strict as the Marine Chapters and let them show their colours with non-standard unit organization and daemon weapons.

It's about time that old art became accurate to gameplay.

Noise Marines seem to be winners - 16pts with two attacks base, a slight discount on the blastmaster, flat-out assault 3 sonic blasters, and the ability to make an attack after being killed?

Sign me right the fuck up

>Nigga, the majority of WHFB armies are still using their free PDF's.
Yeah and all of them are shit in curremt SaS meta and wouldn't get any updates

I love cultist model. I bougth the dark revenge box as base long time ago but I have hard time making solid 500point army with them.
Any thought of how I shoul use those frail fanatic psychopath ?

Cannon fodder is their traditional role. Stick them in front of someone more valuable.

Could see saving command points for rerolls on his sword for those times it tries to shank him, helps mitigate

>only things that made chaos somewhat playable last editions were formations like the warband or legion rules
>8th takes all of this away
>still units like the very basic troops (the spacemarines in a chaos spacemarine army) suck and units like possessed do too

Who would have thought that if you take this away CSM is shit tier again...
All games so far from various YT/40k groups have been total stomps as soon as the enemy is csm.
Maybe in a couple of years they can be fielded again for a few months, because for sure they wont get any attention when DG needs to be pushed.

I've only seen 2 8th edition battle reports so far. One was Chaos vs Imperium, and Chaos stomped them before the bulk of their force even made it across the table.
The other was Nids vs Chaos, but it was a MWG report and Dave was playing Chaos, which pretty much means a loss no matter what version of the game you're playing.

People are already doing 8e batreps? Damn. Then again I guess since MWG has a store they can play before anyone else.

I take it you haven't actually played this edition yet, because they are tough as balls to remove from cover and dish out loads of firepower.

You really are behind the times m9, they've not had a store in years.

I watched the MWG report, I think it's more that 'nids have had a boost and Dave picked a poor list than an overall decrease in the powers of our spikey lads

>You really are behind the times m9, they've not had a store in years.
I remember watching the video about them closing their store but I figured since they were still making videos and have at least a room full of shit to wargame with that they figured something out. I haven't watched them regularly in years. What happened to their store anyway? Were they just not making sales?

Do monstrous creatures need to be fully in cover and be 50% obscured to get the ruins bonus or just 50% obscured?

>Were they just not making sales?
Yeah, they suffered the same fate as the majority of FLGS unfortunately.

>They somehow managed to make possessed EVEN WORSE

That's a damn shame. I'm glad that at least one LGS in my area is fairly active with a lot of games. I went in yesterday to pick up some paints and they had at least twenty people there in three groups playing either Yugioh, Magic and even chess. I gotta find out when they do their 40k stuff so I can get in on it once I finish my CSM.

For some reason our terminators are 31 points base expensive compared to Loyalists which is 26 points base.

Anyone else notice that you can't give a chaos marine champion both a power axe and a Combi melta- this invalidates the current chaos champion model

How so?

They don't look too bad, until you compare them to a berserker

And what could be worse putting behind them? Zerker? Plague? wouldn a rinho do a better job than a cultist cover?

I think it had something to do with GW changing their policy on online sales, or something

The fact that they are worse than berserkers, yet more expensive per model gets to me. I'm willing to admit that they can probably function well enough if you use your head but it's discouraging knowing we could have had a brutal cc unit like the gal vorbak in 30k to compete with other elite assault units. With the current rules it's like they are being presented as a fodder unit but their cost doesn't reflect that.

And I suppose as a Word Bearer player I sincerely believe possessed marines should be about as fearsome as wulfen.

I think the issue is that Possessed have to pay extra points for their demonic 5+ invuln

13 for a base marine, 5 for what's basically a power axe, an them 4 for a bit of extra durability seems fine at a glance, but it's not overly amazing

I think more than anything, they needed to be faster, or have a way to advance and charge. The current box has 2 dudes with wings for crying out loud

I was planning on keeping a sorcerer with warptime near by. 14 inches of movement before charging isn't anything to scoff at, but I'm going to miss assaulting a garunteed 12 inches.

They have movement 7

They are faster

More faster

You're better off just investing in Terminators and teleporting in if that's your plan.

You can run straight up death guard, or proxy the more specific DG models as terminator lords, sorcerors, etc.

I'm adding the new dark imperium plague dudes to my black legion.

Typhus is good, but the bonuses he gives specifically target pox walkers aka zombies, so you're encouraged to not necessarily build arouns that but at least include them.

Terminators appear to be excellent.

So, I just realized that new helldrakes are insane. They're nothing like old helldrakes, sure, but they're crazy-good. So, turn one, you push forward 30 inches, fire your baleflamer, and charge something that you want to not be able to shoot next turn. Then it's tied up during its turn, then on your turn, you disengage, and because it has fly, it can still shoot anyway (just not charge). It's like, a weird turn 1 tarpit unit.

Enemy voluntarily falls back with the unit you "tarpitted" on turn 1 and blasts the helldrake to shit with close range meltas and such with the rest of his army.

I hope preventing a unit from shooting for 1 turn was worth the points

If 200 points stops my opponent from shooting with their whole army for a turn, then yes, it probably is worth the points. Plus, between what you baleflamered, and what you tarpitted, how much more melta do they have? Not to mention target priority with the whole rest of your army.

Are alot of people going to be playing Death Guard now that they're getting alot of new stuff?

Chaos primaris space marines incoming,we all know that

They're getting some seriously tanky shit plus an incoming daemon primarch and probably Deathshroud Terminators, so I'd say yes.

so take the extra terminators and cry about it lol

no why would they be

ROCK AND ROLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

In Dark Imperium Cawl wants to use Traitor Legion geneseed to make more Primaris but Guilliman says no. Three guesses how that will turn out.

Well it would be nice to get basic troops that look like the sculpts in Dark Vengeance. They are even already bigger than normal marines.

Alright brothers, CSM is confirmed to be top tier by 8th edition play-testers. I am already repainting my old CSM into Black Legion and revving up that Abaddon.

Lots of Havocs + Predators + Abaddon to buff morale and give rerolls + some cultists to protect them sounds AWESOME! Add some Maulerfiends/Defilers/Hellbrutes or even a Knight to break opponent's advance and blast them off the bloody board.

All that plus 10man Terminators with combi-flamers deepstriking, getting warp-time and massacring their back-line sounds awesome too.

Or even semi-mechanized Berserker Rhino-Rush with walker and demon engine support! Disembark, cast Prescience or Warp time on them, send rhinos in to soak up overwatch and reap their skulls. I am so incredibly excited at all the damage CSM can cause now.

Havocs make CSM squad totally pointless outside of the troop detachments

Yes, the game changes quite a bit with 8th.
Now that we have new detachment rules, the main reason to take troops is if you want more Command Points. I fully expect to see very few armies take lots of them like before and instead focus on elites/heavies/fast attack.

I actually really like this since now I can have an army that I want to run instead of having mandatory choices. It enables cool stuff like Iron Warriors lists with lots of vehicles and heavy support. It will only get better and more interesting once we get our codex with Legion rules.

>Havocs make CSM squad totally pointless outside of the troop detachments

I almost see it as the other way around, since models can now all splitfire and a CSM unit can take 2 heavies in a 10 man squad you can load them up with las/missiles while filling heavy slots with tanks/daemon engines

Chaos bikes seem really god damn strong now as a minimum sized harass unit

1 champion + 2 dudes base, the champ can take a combi weapon and both the dudes can either trade their combi-bolter for a combi weapons OR take a special weapon, and they can take chain swords.

Since shooting is now all pistols or all non-pistols, the can fire their bike mounted combi bolters and special weapons in turn, meaning they've got flamers they could pump out 12 bolter and 3D6 flamer shots.

I don't imaging the Nurgle wave will be any more overwhelming than the Tzeentch/Thousand Sons one.

Plastic Plague Marines kit, Plastic Nurgleators, maybe a Nurgle Lord on a Palanquin, Bloatdrones ( because box set), Daemon Mort, Plastic Typhus, maybe new Beasts of Nurgle?

TS are shit again huh. How badly did they get their powers gutted?

Okay so looking through the chaos index, I've got a few questions. Some may be obvious but I just wanted to check

- Marks of chaos (such as mark of nurgle) no longer give a benefit other than a keyword (i.e no more toughness 5 obliterators or chaos marines)
- If I take a death guard detachment, does it just give me access to specific units like the foetid bloat drone and make plague marines troops choices? Is the cost that I can't take any units in that detachment that aren't listed like rubric marines?
- Does the above mean if I wish to take a flier in my detachment I need to take a regular detachment instead of a death guard one?
- Can I take a death guard and a regular or thousand sons detachment in my army so long as I meet the requirements?
- Can I now take chaos daemons in the same detachment as my chaos space marines?

I'd add in a new GUO for good measure and call it at that. Id like to say multipose poxwalkers too.