Paizo Games General /pgg/ (Pathfinder & Starfinder, formerly /pfg/)
Topic question:
Aside from casters, how important are familiars and pets to your characters? Have they accomplished anything on their own or are they merely decoration?
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I love ALL the /pgg/lets!
>Have they accomplished anything on their own or are they merely decoration?
They make my character feel better.
I'd like to give a shout-out to all my /pgg/as for keepin' it real
We should commission a mascot
So PC classes are pretty uncommon in my setting. I threw out the normal spellcasting service rules by city size because they're dumb.
One of the consequences of this is wizards and other spell book using classes are uncommon. This makes a wizard's ability to find and add spells to their spell book more difficult. They will go to a large town, maybe find three wizards, two of them lower level than the wizard, and only two of the three is willing to exchange spells. Then if they want to branch out to other casters it becomes more expensive because they have to buy scrolls.
Overall it just makes things harder than magic item mart settings.
I have never had a player who didn't get enormously butthurt about it.
On the one hand I understand the desire to keep wizards' power in check, but on the other it makes wizards very annoying to play, which isn't really a tradeoff.
You're dictating the wizard's build growth by your GM whims of what two or three spells they're allowed to have. That's not "organic character growth", that's "I guess all my abilities besides 2 spells per level are RNG".
Make a blacklist of problematic spells that a wizard needs to put in effort or straight up can't find, rather than a tiny whitelist.
This is a dangerous sentiment to voice on these threads my guy, I salute you for being brave enough to say it though.
Magic item mart settings are cancer. Settings where a character can walk into town and find any spell is cancer. You need to fuck off.
No really, magic item marts should fucking die as a concept.
It depends entirely on the tone of the setting and the manner in which it's handled. If you're giving out wand versions of every spell with 50+ charges that refill after 8 hours you only have yourself to blame for giving it to them. That said, needlessly hamstringing the caster is also pointless
Then go play 5e, because PF system assumptions are based around characters getting access to what they want at certain level points.
Unless you're one of those "Okay to upgrade your +1 sword to +2 you need to go on a four session sidequest, and then you can help the ranger upgrade their weapon with a new quest after that..." GMs.
That doesn't mean he's wrong though. "Magic item marts" are cancer, but the Wizard having 2 spells a level and whatever two more spells that please your dick as DM is just annoying as fuck for the Wizard. At that point you may as well play a sorcerer. You're simply not implementing it well. If magic is so fucking rare, well, why isn't your player already a person of vast importance?
You also fail to understand this hurts martials immensely because of their overreliance on magic items.
If I can pick up Glitterdust and Mirror Image and can't even find a single guy to teach my Minor Image or Snowball Flurry until I'm nearly level 4 then you should expect me to abuse the Polymorph class of spells and Planar Binding to hell and back. There's a point where Wizards can do everything and everyone else gets mad, and another point where the Wizard wonders why you didn't just tell him you wanted him to roll up a Cleric.
Some more information.
Let's say people with PC classes make up .5% of the population. I would say that is reasonable.
Take a large town of 5000 people. There will be approximately 25 people with PC classes. There are 35 PC classes. On average 1, maybe 2, of the PC characters will be a wizard. Those aren't the only classes with books that work for spell casting. Magus, Alchemists, Investigators, and Arcanists do too. 5 of the 36. So let's round that up to 1/6. So that means there will be 4 people with a spellbook around for you to copy out of.
And likely if the PCs are level 5 or above then half of those 4 will be lower level than you. Even then not everyone wants to lend out their spell book. Not all of them will realistically have the spell you're looking for.
Magic item mart settings have no internal consistency often and are simply done to keep whiny wizard players from going ballistic.
If the player is heading towards a HUGE metropolis. Let's say 300,000 people there will be around 250 people with spellbooks you can use. You can probably find most of what you're looking for there if you spend the time and energy to make friends. That feels a lot more rewarding than walking into your nearest thorp to go to the spellbooks on wheels cart.
>
Unless you're one of those "Okay to upgrade your +1 sword to +2 you need to go on a four session sidequest, and then you can help the ranger upgrade their weapon with a new quest after that..." GMs.
Don't be one of those fucking faggots that act like only two extremes exist. I'm arguing against settings where every time has a magic ikea, not ones where you can't find ANYTHING.
Magic isn't rare, PC magic is. Adepts make up roughly 5% of the population. Everyone knows a magic user. Not many people know a wizard.
>Let's say people with PC classes make up .5% of the population. I would say that is reasonable.
It ain't, that's the problem. A Tavern Singer is Bard 1. An orcish Axe Warrior is Barb 3. At higher levels, sure - but at higher levels, your Wizard is himself so famous, knowing so many spells, that he's probably part of some cabal or Circle of Twelve or some shit. And even assuming it is true that makes the PCs special snowflakes immediately - and makes Clerics and Druids minor deities because ENEMY CASTERS only know like 3 spells a level.
>are simply done to keep whiny wizard players from going ballistic
Wrong, it's done to keep the MARTIALS from going ballistic because damn, they need that +3 Longsword of Speed more than the Wizard.
>Implying DnD demographics make any actual sense from the perspective of game mechanics
DnD isn't a real life sim, many things are abstractions to help the game run smoother and more conveniently.
>That feels a lot more rewarding than walking into your nearest thorp to go to the spellbooks on wheels cart.
You know what feels even more rewarding?
Actually spending session time adventuring or engaging with the plot instead of making the rest of the party wait for the wizard network their way into getting Fly so the melee martials aren't fucked the next time they fight giant eagles.
Speaking of Magic Marts, do you think they play the medieval equivalent of muzak while people shop? Like, is there a high level Bard sitting at each Magic Mart, busy playing or singing for customers?
Oh man, talking about magic item marts, looks like it's time to post about my setting again:
>magic-mart marts do not exist
>the reason for this is that many items are far too expensive to be realistically kept in a store's inventory for any amount of time
>the best you're going to find is scribes, apothecaries, etc. who carry cheap and consumable items, possible cheaper noncombat common magic items like bags of holding
>if you want something in particular you have three real options
>craft it yourself
>find a skilled artisan to make it for you on commission
>go to a large city and attend a borger market
>borger markets pop up in large cities and consist of various groups trying to sell magic items in essentially a flea market style
>you'll have mercenaries, tomb divers, explorers, etc. go there and try and sell off what they don't need
>because often finding buyers for magic items in difficult attending borger markets to sell off loot is common for parties
>if you're not going to a borger market finding a buying to offload expensive magic items on often takes gathering information, seeking out patrons, etc. (sometimes governmental bodies buy up magic items for their armories)
>borger markets are full of bartering/trading/etc. since people who go often all have items
>crafting it yourself/finding someone to craft it will get you exactly what you want, but will take time/energy
>going to a borger market will get you instant gratification, but often you need to make due with an item that is only mostly what you were looking for, and you can come out of it not finding what you wanted at all
>combat magic items, like magic swords, wands, etc. are often tightly regulated by local lords/governments
>this means often either whose who make them or those who buy them need to get a license
>in areas where they are regulated often both legal and illegal borger markets crop up, legal ones being inspected that they're not selling contraband
(1/2)
Your setting is obviously a severe re-interpretation of the entire setting, which is fine, but it completely unbalances the game. Fly being a spell every Wizard has as soon as he hits level 5 is a given to the game balance, which is why flying foes being a thing en-masse happens around CR5 - but under your system I may well choose Fireball and Stinking Cloud, and then my party is going to get shit on when a flier comes along - but I don't care, because Fireball exists.
You have one. Its name is Jason Bulmahn.
>crafting is changed as well, the first removal is the need for being a spellcaster
>how the feats works are changed so it is now a two feat chain that can be taken by everyone
>first is Skill Focus in a crafting skill, the second is Magical Artisan in the same crafting skill
>this allows you to make magic items with that crafting skill (for instance tailor for clothes, weapons for weapons, armor for armor, sculpture for constructs, etc.)
>this breaks up some too large feats like Craft Wondrous and makes it so everyone has a chance to be a magic item crafter
>this also makes it so a level 5 expert can be a magic item crafter rather than always needing a spellcaster around to do it
(2/2)
>but it completely unbalances the game.
Are you trying to imply the game was balanced before?
My favorite argument from white-board posters is their assertion that "the game" expects you to have X, Y, and Z by a certain level in the game, as if the GMs for these games don't already know the capabilities and limitations of their own players.
Seriously, if you have no Cleric and your GM throws you a Ghost Rat Swarm because it equals the CR of your party that means he's either retarded or he hates you.
Certainly more than it is now without massive further adjustments.
You still haven't addressed how this literally does NOTHING to the other two members of the classic 9casterclub - in fact it may even buff them, because now you have to give easier encounters for everyone else.
You're not running the game for us, literally the only thing we can do is white room arguments. White room arguments refers to shit that "doesn't happen in game" - but how the fuck do we know it doesn't happen in game?
Anyone have any angry thoughts about all this?
There are several reasons I do this:
>I have a massive fetish for magic flea markets and bartering
>I love the idea of slowly becoming better friends with an artisan or a guild over time as they make and upgrade your equipment
>I love nonspellcasting magic item crafters as just skilled blacksmiths, and think pathfinder makes it too shitty
I've had many a GM with a good talent for storytelling and creativity have trouble estimating the CR of a threat relative to the party's capabilities.
Yes, an even more competent GM would work around it, but PF is a dense system and the fact its system expectations can catch many off guard is something that should be mitigated, not exacerbated.
Also, Adventure Paths.
It sounds really cute. Had the chance to run a game like this yet?
Not pulling a 2hu and immediately going for the largest guns possible would be a good place to start. In fact, has the right idea in looking at APs, where I can speak from personal experience that even a suboptimal party can survive just fine in most stories.
>pulling a 2hu
Pointing out that Wizards are worthless garbage and you may as well play a Sorcerer and have literally none of the normal drawbacks or a CoD and get your spells for fucking free is not pulling a 2hu.
>I have never had a player who didn't get enormously butthurt about it.
Because playing a prepared spellbook caster has become massively frustrating while fixing NONE of their actual problems, in much the same way tracking material components does. If you don't want someone to play a wizard, tell them not to, because otherwise you're pulling the equivalent of letting someone play rogue in an undead-slaying campaign.
Same with magic marts. You are simply playing the wrong system for any of that stuff.
Being optimal isn't about the numbers.
It's about having the counters to things that will otherwise fuck you over.
You hear tons of stories about parties dying to incorporeal or high DR/Magic enemies before they get magic weapons, or invisible enemies before they can see them.
Flight is the next thing.
Weren't Shadows CR 1 in 3.5e or something
Shit was insane
>1d4 Str damage per hit, stacking
>incorp
>undead
>had good HP and AC anyway so it's not like 'one good hit' will do it
Why is Saranae hated? Newfag.
RELIGION OF PEACE
Her app was like the others I suppose.
She's like the God version of a Mary Sue
She literally dindu nuffin.
What is the name of Sarenrae's scimitar?
>She teaches temperance and patience in all things. Compassion and peace are her greatest virtues, and if enemies of the faith can be redeemed, they should be. Yet there are those who have no interest in redemption, who glory in slaughter and death. From the remorseless evil of the undead and fiends to the cruelties born in the hearts of mortals, Sarenrae's doctrines preach swift justice delivered by the scimitar's edge. To this end, she expects her faithful to be skilled at swordplay, both as a form of martial art promoting centering of mind and body, and so that when they do enter battle, their foes do not suffer any longer than necessary.
It's literally "you have heard the Word of Allah, convert or be freed from your suffering in unenlightened life".
I don't think it was ever named.
There's a ton of monsters from 3.5e that wrecked you. Monstrous Crab was another example.
Did an app just disappear from JttW?
It literally says right there that swift justice is aimed towards those who "glory is slaughter and death", AKA Evil people causing others suffering. It does not say that those who do not fit that criteria are put to the sword, and to assume as much is to give her the worst possible interpretation.
CRAB BATTLE
hey folks, we've got a bit more information about Starfinder today.
paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ljv8?Five-Differences-Between-Starfinder-Rules-and
Most of this is a recap, but there's some interesting stuff here, and Owen comments a few clarifications down in the comments section.
I see Obo remains best girl
The current apps I see are...
>Yamaguchi, angry fightman and waifu
>Lingmeng, kungfu wizard
>Tsubaki, fightgirl
>Yīn Sūn Báisòng, Valeriya the Anime version
>Koji, swordboy who wants to get ALL THE SWORDS
>Mira, foxgirl magician.
>Jun Fan, Sleep breaking his cycles of guilt
>Wen Yijun, literally Sun Wukong
Which app is missing? Who are you gonna ship with who when the time comes?
Would you kiss the lizard
Sleep runs Overlewd on alternating Thursdays. Jun is just attention whoring. More's the pity.
Absolutely.
Looks like it. It was the drunken master guy with the One Piece character pic. I think I saw earlier that they couldn't make the time slot, though, so can see why they dropped.
Presumably you killing them does not cause them suffering.
Wait for my character:
>Shēn yǐn zhě, He Who Stole the Small God's Wine
>tfw CR3 crab on average kills 2 members of a CR4 party given very favorable advantages
Decapitation with scimitars sounds pretty bad, though.
>Yīn Sūn Báisòng
>but not Língmèng Qīng
Wow bias much what is Yīn Sūn Báisòng meant to mean?
What kanji are you using that sounds more like "he who drank a kami".
Pic related.
Look buddy, I'm a lazy, inconsistent copypaster, the only one I could recall is Mira and Koji because they're both short and easy to remember.
>"he who drank a kami"
Exactly.
Someone should rate the JttW apps
I thought that was the idea
Flip the sequence of Yin and Shen so it becomes Yǐn shēn zhě, which is more fluently "he who drank a kami / drinks kami"
Do remember this is a title, not a name, unless your parents named you The One Who Kami's (???).
What the HELL did you do to eat a lesser god yo
Well in that case I guess we should just let the psychopath carving names into people do his thing then, since taking his head would cause him pain for less than a minute and that would make us hypocrites.
No, app reviews are cancer.
With Starfinder, how are all these guys who reduce the number of magical items going to react now that we'll have Extranet retailers who can deliver our orders in two days?
I'm waiting for Wist's app before I decide on anything!
Is it wrong to apply to JttW with a Vudrani or Minkai comic-relief sidekick or wise translator?
>Yamaguchi Yuudai
Cute wife.
>Língmèng Qīng
Female Elliot "Reimu" Roger, except about being a poorfag more than being an /r9k/.
>Tsubaki Higashiyama
RECLAIM SWORD
BRING SWORD HOME
RULE ONI AND DON'T GO EXTINCT
>Yīn Sūn Báisòng
Looks hot.
>Koji
I want to be a hero, so I must find le excalibur!
>Mira "Mia" Covinus
Long app, but my eyes are on her tits.
>Jun Fan
Daddy.
>Wen Yijun
A dumber version of Sun Wukong.
Protag more or less cried for help from reviewanons.
>literally same time slot as PLD
I have bad news.
So I got approved for my Tea Ceremony oracle.
Now is my time. I'm going to make him an Oracle with the Friendless/Covetous Dual curse and Ascetic mystery. I just need something to go with the other half of my build. Maybe a Geisha bard since they get tea ceremony powers?
I hope you all are ready for maximum aesthetics.
You could also be a chinese five army warrior with your dragon crescent blade.
Or be a cute elf wizard from the depths of the bamboo forest
Aw....
Geisha fits very well if you ask me.
>So I got approved for my Tea Ceremony oracle.
Based Argentum did you really PM him for something like this
>Protag more or less cried for help from reviewanons.
Ensoulment, and by association Protag, are also cancer.
Why is DHB so tone deaf?
Actually user I have bad news
You're the cancer.
Tell me about the promises they made about Starfinder, /pgg/.
Any major system departure from the 3.5 model they have used.
Which are the most likely members of a party to get laid, BESIDES the fullcasters binding succubi and erodaemons en-masse.
Rogue and Bard probably top the list. What about the rest, do the barbs get more than the Fighter? Does anyone actually notice the Ranger?
I'm bored and feeling kinda down, /pgg/. Figure I ought to put myself to use--tell me a meme character to write about.
He approved the switch in the questions thread.
>Long App
Isn't it basically "old smug fox goddess foresees Aroden's death, goes blind, sticks her soul an oak seed, which grows into a mighty tree, which is then found by a wandering Taldan man from Amanandar. After cracking it open he finds a cute fox girl inside it whom he takes on as a daughter, being a good and caring daddy for her"
Mesmerists and Lust-Phantom Fractured Mind Spiritualists
Working on an update for the map currently up for Ensoulment. Here's what I have so far.
Do Sanae for JttW, Argentum thought it'd be funny.
Looks like a squid. The desert is the eye, the mountain side is the head, the other is the tentacles.
It looks A LOT like a squid.
>Ensoument map is actually just the corpse of a Mythic Kraken
Allip CR 3 = 4HD, +5 init, incorporeal with a 1d4 wisdom drain +3 to hit touch attack
Adamantine Horror CR 9 = at-will Disjunction
Lantern Archons CR 2 = fires 1d6 ignore DR touch rays @ +2, teleport, DR10/magic evil, initiative +4
Not that Pathfinder hasn't continued this horseshit.
Do DHB's character for Ironfang.
>app.roll20.net
There is some actual rule stuff over here:
Main things so far that should matter is:
>Magic nerfed to mostly 6th level stuff.
You can get higher apparently, but it's going to take focus and dedication and will probably get your character killed if you're not careful
>Soldier is better than Ranger AND Fighter, combined
This one seems like it'll be backported to Pathfinder real quick
>Two different armor types and Three Health systems
>The BBEG is the land itself
TINY
AETHER
ELEMENTALS
I remember how Allips were so broken you could legit kill a Tarraresque with a horde of them.
>Magic item mart settings are cancer.
If you think that, why the flying fuck are you playing a system entirely built around the idea of magic items being easily available? Go play something else, you fucking moron.
BEWARE, FOR THE LEVIATHAN RISES
Who?
The one and only
What (official) class mechanically enables lots of martial defensive techniques? Using a sword to blocks, parries, counter etc.
Today on "How Tone Deaf is DHB".
Rate it here folks, how tone deaf is he today?
Argentum, the GM.
DG 1 right now