Seperates children from their parents

>He says while posting one of the biggest nearly evil things the Jedi have done

>and having the Dark Side be more bout philosophy and less about corruption would do wonders.

The dark side IS corruption though.

That being said, the Sith philosophy in and of itself isn't particularly horrible, it's just that the Sith keep using the dark side to leverage it and whoops suddenly they've gone full evil asshole because it turns out that playing with corruption corrupts you.

>The dark side IS corruption though.
Yes, user. I'm saying I think the setting was better if it wasn't, not in any sense beyond the regular old "power corrupts".

>They try to assassinate a chancellor of a democratically elected republic due to being a sith, and if it wasn't for a proud patriot they would have created a theocracy.
This
Once they tried to kill sheeve they lost their chance

Better in what way? So it'll be able to tell edgy stories about if drowning orphans is really evil, if it's for the greater good? Fuck you, you are what's wrong with fantasy.

Meh. Sometimes it's perfectly fine to have a story about plain good vs evil. Not everything needs shades of grey.

I've always preferred the "dark side doesn't turn you into an asshole, being an asshole turns you to the dark side" school of thought. Palpatine wasn't evil because he shot lightning out of his fingers, he was evil because the most important things for him were destruction and dominance - and his use of the Force reflected that.

>>They try to assassinate a chancellor of a democratically elected republic due to being a sith
Ackshually, they tried to arrest him, to which he responded by killing most of the group sent to arrest him.

No, user. What the fuck are you even gibbering about? Unless you're implying that drowning orphans isn't evil unless you're doing it because of Dark Side corruption, your entire post makes no sense whatsoever. Doing evil shit is evil, obviously, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the Dark Side should be inherently corrputing. Having two opposing philosophies about the Force and its proper use is a whole lot more nuanced, a whole lot more interesting, and leaves room for a whole lot more stories if these philosophies aren't just reduced to Good and Evil.

Sure, but there isn't exaclty a shortage of such stories, and you can tell such stories even if there aren't any great cosmic forces of good and evil. I mean, the plot of the original movie trilogy would work just fine even if Dark Side wasn't corruption. The Emperor could and would still be evil, and there wouldn't be much of a moral dilemma about whether he should be overthrown or not.

Poor showing from master Fisto.

>Ummmm, ahhhcktually you'll find that frying people alive with the power of your hate not only shouldn't be inherently evil, but also...
How about fucking no.

They Jedi had their own problems.
Extremely dogmatic and so blinded by arrogance a sith lord managed to boss then around.
They also refused to give back a 6 month old baby because she had already started training, on top of preaching to their disciples to not have any emotion whatsoever and form no attachments like any living being would.
It's a small wonder they fell so easily.

Hold on, I remember you. We already talked about this before, maybe two months ago? You never quite managed to explain how shades of gray and moral ambiguity will improve Star Wars. Can you do it this time?

What alarms me the most is this troll is getting a halfway thought-out response from the other guy.

Fucker, you are still making no sense. Aside from the obvious fact that the power to fry people alive is as inherently evil as a gun, a lightsaber or any other wy to kill and hurt people, doing evil shit is still evil. Killing innocents with the Force is evil, no shit. This has nothing, nothing at all, to do with whether there should be an inherenlty evil and corrupting side of the Force. Fuck, could you at leats attempt to read and address the things I'm actually saying?

Are you one of those autists, who argues that necromancy shouldn't be an evil school?

>implying the original trilogy was any better
It's all schlock written by hacks, directed by hacks and played mostly by hacks.

The only difference is that by the time the prequels came out you were old enough to realize it.

Joke's on you, I saw the prequels first. I liked them too - until I saw the original trilogy.

I've never discussed this before on Veeky Forums, so you're thinking of some other user. As for the explanation, aside from my personal, entirely subjective dislike for cosmic good and evil - which, to make it clear, does not imply moral subjectivism when it comes to things people do - I just feel like a black and white view on things excludes more stories than it enables. That is pretty much it. Two different philosophies clashing is cool, good and evil clashing is something I've seen countless times already.

Then your taste is just dictated by popular opinion. There's very little difference in writing quality or acting quality between the prequels and the sequels.

Although I will concede that the practical effects of the original look better than the shit CG of the prequels, in most cases.

>>Whenever they is a dark slide user, they attack them and kills them
actually they always try to turn them from the dark side and get killed because of it

>my opinion is objectively better than your opinion
Fuck off back to /tv/.

Have a (you)

Why would I go to /tv/? The movies are the worst part about Star Wars.

i partially agree, though i like the originals and the prequels, they are on a level with some of the decent eu things, but below some of the best eu stories

meanwhile let's not speak of the sequels

>The movies are the worst part about Star Wars.
I also enjoy the works of the geniuses such as Timothy Zahn and Karen Traviss

>Lightside is stronger than the darkside
>Gets exterminated by the sith

>Sith supposedly great and powerful
>Always destroy themselves in the end

Still better than Lucas. He should stick to worldbuilding and being an "ideas guy."

Darth Vectivus, in the life he enjoyed prior to becoming a Sith, was a male Human who served as the director of the Jonex Mine Eight Eleven B asteroid mining colony in the MZX32905 star system near the planet Bimmiel. A shrewd and principled businessman, he shut down the operation when the reservoir of dark side energy over which the colony was situated began to negatively influence his employees. Because of his own Force sensitivity, he began to study and experiment with the mysterious anomaly himself, where he developed a Force technique which involved the creation of dark side–empowered phantoms. He eventually did away with the entire mining operation and left the habitat for a time in search of the Sith. His quest was ultimately fruitful, and upon completion of his apprenticeship, he ascended to mastery as Darth Vectivus, Dark Lord of the Sith. He participated in the Banite Sith under the Rule of Two: a master and an apprentice. Though a proponent of the dark side, Darth Vectivus' self-discipline and preexisting code of ethics allowed him to remain fair and balanced without succumbing to the lure of power which plagued many of the Sith Lords who preceded him. He eventually returned to the mine and maintained a plentiful existence in the company of friends and loved ones alike.

The established moral code of his former existence as a business executive was not lost to Darth Vectivus during his transformation into a Sith Lord, and adherence to those ethical standards prevented him from succumbing to the stereotypically common shortcomings of his predecessors. Violence, galactic ambition, and the eradication of the Sith's philosophical Jedi rivals were of no consequence to him; his contention was to simply immerse himself in Sith lore and study the galaxy. Upon his return to the mine years later as a fully fledged Sith Lord, Vectivus built a mansion in the heart of the asteroid's dark side potency. He also fashioned a personal Sith holocron which contained his philosophy on business practices, as well as a detailed explanation on the implementation of dark side–empowered projections. An ability developed by Vectivus himself, these phantoms were controlled Force apparitions that required the healthy soul of a living host to serve as the manifestation's anchor into the physical realm. Each was inextricably linked to the other; if one was killed or destroyed, the other would suffer the same fate. Such was Vectivus' ability that summoning hundreds of concurrent phantoms required little effort. Darth Vectivus eventually died at the Home, having lived out the remainder of his days surrounded by friends and family.

Noice b8 lad

My nigga...

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jensaarai

Childhood is thinking the Rebels and Jedi are the good guys.

Adulthood is knowing the Empire and Sith were the heroes.

The empire and the sith are not the heroes. Care to explain why you think they are?

You are right. Learning that he is a Sith gives the Chancellor a direct link to the Separatists which makes him a huge suspect for treason.

There are accounts of Jedi using force lightning, so it's not inherently evil, it's just very... showy... which the Sith prefer. The Jedi typically use the force in very subdued ways, the Sith are performance artists. It's the difference in their natures. Jedi are hermetic warrior monks, and Sith are charismatic power seekers... usually. There are also several factions of force users that teach a balance between the light and dark side of the force (the Jedi typically eradicate them, but not always). The Jedi and Sith are just both extremists, and extremism always causes problems, Muhammed.

He was a capitalist hence he is evil.

so the Jedi are communists? Even more reason to eradicate them

because they fight against PoCs, Aliens, women and religious terrorists

>everyone who isn't capitalist is a communist
>americans are genuinely this retarded

Maybe if a gun was powered with the pure hatred of the user

Force Lightning as hate rays is a pretty silly concept. Simply using the Force to create electricity is better

>Separates children from parents.
Do we ever see them doing this as kidnapping? Qui-gon pulled Anikin sure, but his mom was all for getting him out of slavery and off world. I know that in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, we learn of a young force-user taken in by the Order was sent to them freely, but didn't expect that he'd be fired from his custodial position there at the temple to ensure the separation. Dick move, but this isn't quite what you're making it out to be.

>Hunts and kills dark-side philosophers.
Pretty sure that's a mutually offered bit of violence. Not a good point in either's favor.

>Assassinate a democratically elected leader.
One who was clearly gaming the system to stay in that place of power rather than accepting the people's will in turn. Don't think there's any indication that the Jedi would've taken control aside from putting the Senate back to doing its job.

>Assume their side is stronger.
Nope. Plenty of instances of Yoda or the others stating that the Dark Side is a powerful force to be reckoned with, just that its use isn't worth the cost.

>Independent thinking is branded as evil.
Qui-gon was respected despite his wild-card status. Mace Windu created a combat style based in the Dark-Side and was kept on the Council.

When it comes down to it, the Jedi weren't the good guys. They were the protagonists. That doesn't make them good nor evil, nor does it say the opposite for the Sith and company.

Still, half-decent bait has made a potentially fun thread so thanks OP.

KOTOR 2 WAS A MISTAKE

>Claim to be peaceful
>At the same time they'r members are often leading armies and being generals.
>All of they'r members wield one of the most deadly infantry weapons which are also exclusive to them.
At least sith are honest about being a bunch of power-hungry megalomaniacs

>discriminate and Exterminate a religion simply due to believing the opposite of them.

That is not why the Jedi oppose the Sith.

>Whenever they is a dark slide user, they attack them and kills them

You will note that in every instance where a Jedi went up against a Sith in the films, the Sith made the first move, with a singular exception - Luke's fight with Vader in Episode V (and even you might argue that Vader made the first move since torturing Han and Leia was all to get Luke to come to him anyway).

>They try to assassinate a chancellor of a democratically elected republic due to being a sith

The fact that he had orchestrated an entire civil war and played both sides against each other MIGHT have also had something to do with it.

>They arrogantly assume their side is stronger than the dark.

There is no such thing as the "light side". There is only the Force, and it has a Dark Side that VISIBLY is shown to be horrible and corrupting in the series.

>If a member of their order even so much has an independent thought than the council they are branded as evil.

That's blatantly not true by the simple fact that Dooku was allowed to leave the order peaceful more than a decade before Episode II. Likewise Qui-Gon constantly disagreed with the Council, but they just thought of him as contrarian, not evil.

>>seperates children from their parents
A small sacrifice for the greater good of the state and humanity. To say that the suffering of one individual or family outweighs the needs of society, shows a very warped perspective on what is good.
>>discriminate and Exterminate a religion simply due to believing the opposite of them.
If your religion is good then of course it is good to destroy religions that are diametrically opposed to you. Anything else just demonstrates a lack of faith in your cause.
>>Whenever they is a dark slide user, they attack them and kills them
As above
>>They try to assassinate a chancellor of a democratically elected republic due to being a sith, and if it wasn't for a proud patriot they would have created a theocracy.
As above.
If your religion is true and good then a theocracy is far more morally right than some corruptible democracy. Democracy is overrated, it is merely the best of a series of bad options for determining governance of a state.
>>instead of trying to understand and overcome their negative emotions they prefer to shut it down, thereby creating a endless cycle of them falling and causing destruction.
I'll grant you this one. Sometimes life needs us to embrace the shadow within.
>>They arrogantly assume their side is stronger than the dark.
If it's not stronger then what's the point. They might as well give up immediately.
>>If a member of their order even so much has an independent thought than the council they are branded as evil.
Also a valid criticism.

> but his mom was all for getting him out of slavery and off world.

Also let's not forget that Qui-Gon first tried to get both Anakin AND Shmi, but Watto objected on the grounds that no pod, no matter how good, is worth two slaves. So Qui-God went for just Anakin, since if Qui-Gon was right and Anakin was the Chosen One, getting him the Hell off of Tatooine was of paramount importance.

That's not canon.

>seperates children from their parents
Er, don't we see the children still with their parents in Clone Wars? The parents also know the Order will come eventually, but they don't exactly seem to be hiding.

>They arrogantly assume their side is stronger than the dark.
Yoda never says the light is stronger than the dark. Just that the dark is quicker, easier, and more destructive.

>If a member of their order even so much has an independent thought than the council they are branded as evil.
Qui-Gon defied the council all the time, he barely even got slaps on the wrist for it. Obi-Wan threatened to defy them and teach Anakin, and Yoda had misgivings but didn't actually try to stop him.

I never saw it as hate rays, more that it's a lot easier to use the dark side to power it because the dark side is supposed to be a quick and easy path to power.

Producing the same sort of effect without the darkside should be a shitload harder, and require a far more competent Jedi than your average knight-level guy.

Wrong

Damn, that's a pretty fresh (you).

>A small sacrifice for the greater good of the state and humanity.
Separating Anakin from the nurturing environment provided by his mother worked so well.

For the rest of your post, you've just defined fanaticism, without making a single point about why the jedi are good.

Mate he got whored out to death races for money.

>If you aren't cooperative and collectivistic, you can't be powerful.

Reminder that the CIS were the real good guys.

This. They did nothimg wrong

Balance of the force is code word for Sith genocide.

Has everyone trying to argue for the Jedi being the "bad guys", and the Sith being "dindu nuffins" forgotten fucking Darth Nihilus? You know, the guy who was so steeped in the Dark Side that he had become a literal void, a wound in the Force? A void that consumed entire planets, sucking them dry of the Force and leaving them barren wastes devoid of any life, or even the very CAPACITY of birthing life in any form whatsoever? The guy whose ultimate goal was to effectively suck the entire universe dry of the Force in it's entirety, leaving a completely dead void in which only he could exist? THAT Darth Nihilus? How does that constitute the Sith being an "oppressed minority that didn't do anything to anybody"? Are you people really that fucking blind to how blatantly evil the Sith and the Dark Side are?

Who the hell colored Futo's shirt green?

Responding without reading the thread first, but here:

>seperates children from their parents

Entirely voluntary. If parents think they might have a force sensitive child, they call the Jedi. Jedi then come and tell them whether they are or not, and then give the parents the choice to either keep their child or give them over to the Jedi for training.

>discriminate and Exterminate a religion simply due to believing the opposite of them.

They don't discriminate and exterminate dark side users simply for being dark side users. It just seems that way because, almost without exception, dark side users are dangerous to everyone around them and can't keep their sociopathic and destructive tendencies in check. If there was a dark side user who never hurt anybody else, the Jedi would leave them alone.

>Whenever they is a dark slide user, they attack them and kills them

Pretty much the same point you just made, so my above response will go here too.

>They try to assassinate a chancellor of a democratically elected republic due to being a sith

They didn't try to assassinate him because he's a Sith, they tried to assassinate him because he created a galactic civil war, playing both sides against each other, killing and endangering billions and billions of living beings, all so he could orchestrate his own rise to power and be in charge of it all. This is going back to my second response, and you've now made the same point 3 times in a row.

>and if it wasn't for a proud patriot they would have created a theocracy.

Maybe, maybe not. They would have done the best they could. Pretty much anything would be better than an incredibly dangerous madman having absolute authority over the galaxy. They likely would have just kept power temporarily until more elections were held, but we'll never know for sure.

tbc

Except Star Wars itself is fundamentally black and white. It's not merely 'oh they're just lazy/pussies with the force', the OT movies fall apart if you start giving the bad guys (as an entity) nuance or humanity.

continued...

>instead of trying to understand and overcome their negative emotions they prefer to shut it down, thereby creating a endless cycle of them falling and causing destruction.

I'll give you a little bit of this one. The smart ones understood the dark side, let themselves feel the negative feelings, and then let them go. I like to think that the whole "stifle and squelch all emotion" is something they do with young padawans until they're old enough and strong enough to understand better before they get into "accept these funny feelings for what they are and let them go".

>They arrogantly assume their side is stronger than the dark.

I don't think they ever actually say this. All they say is that the dark side is not stronger, just easier. I don't have a whole lot to say on this matter though.

>If a member of their order even so much has an independent thought than the council they are branded as evil.

They're not branded as evil. The worst thing the council would do is expel them from the order. And to be fair, membership of the Jedi order is voluntary. They don't force anybody to stay. There are plenty of examples of people who leave the order. The Jedi order is ancient and has their own way of doing things. It's clearly worked for them, as they are widely loved across the galaxy and have been around for thousands of years. There's no place in such an order for a few upstarts who want to go against the wisdom of the entire council. If they can't get along, they don't belong. I feel this makes perfect sense.

Not him, but that depends entirely on the context of how necromancy works in the setting.

the dathomiri witches seemed perfectly sane just kind of massive bitches to the guys and thats kind of standard for their archetype, the dark side isnt the sith and the light isnt the jedi

You can't exterminate the force, no matter what lies Kreia feeds you.

Its depressing the sith race is extinct

Well maybe all the humans in the sith empire shouldn't have outbred them.

They're the good guys because star wars was a very simple story about good defeating evil. There is no complex morality to the universe at all because it was sprung from a simple movie that had the same kind of moral complexity as a fucking children's fairy tale. Anyone who tries to find a deeper meaning in it or "argue" about who's good and who's evil in Star Wars is as big of a fucking retard as George is.

Pretty sure he was talking about how the Jedi keep insisting the Lightside or "the force" if you will is inherently stronger than the Darkside only to be exterminated

Yeah probably. To which I say ask yourself how many jedi died to dark force users compared to how many died to schmucks with blasters and the element of surprise during the course of the PT. Protip: the numbers don't look good for the dark side being stronger

The Empire stood for an authoritarian system of order and peace. The Sith stood for embracing one's emotions and making the most of them. While neither was perfect they were leagues better than the Rebellion and Jedi.

>The Empire stood for an authoritarian system of order and peace.
The Empire stood for one man showing he could win the Sith dickwaving contest forever. It accomplished nothing the Republic couldn't have and was built on a foundation of deceit and needless death.

The Jedi are stupid, but the Sith are nonsensical.
The more details ascribed to either, the more the setting suffers for it.

Peaceful is not the same as pacifist. To borrow a quote from a movie in an unrelated franchise
>A wise king never seeks out war, but he must always be ready for it

Palpatine did nothing wrong.

>no pod, no matter how good, is worth two slaves
Which is weird when you think about it. Podracers seem surprisingly cheap for top racing vehicles.

>Qui-Gon defied the council all the time
Beside, he is the kind of guy that when asked to bring a queen to Coruscant to warn about an invasion with a world population at stake decide it's time to gamble on car races.
Will of the force or not, you may not want the guy on your council.

>decide it's time to gamble on car races.
Well sure, if you strip away all the context of 'need to get their ship fixed and republic money is useless on this planet, it sounds kinda bad. Unless you were expecting him to just steal the parts like some kind of thief, then haul them through the desert while being chased by whatever passes for law enforcement outside of republic territory.

Because the other guys are just retarded to the point of danger.

>but there isn't exaclty a shortage of such stories

Actually, there is a shortage. We have the ones already made, but no new blood. Everyone is trying to be nuanced and/or edgy today. Grey is what's unoriginal now.

I was trying to show it from an outside perspective.
Qui-Gon can be extremely weird if you're a not deep into force mysticism, and still a bit weird if you are.
And they could just have sold the ship to buy some tickets to Coruscant in whatever ship there may be. The betting thing wasn't so much about reaching Coruscant but about getting Anakin.
I'm not saying that Qui-Gon was wrong here, just that from an outside perspective that seems weird and irresponsible.

>dark side exterminates jedi
>still manages to lose

This is why the light is stronger. Darkie is retarded.

>Implying Luke isn't a Gray Jedi.

Gray Jedi is a retarded idea, and there's nothing that suggests that Luke would go "gray" (if there even was a thing - hint: there isn't. It's like being a "gray vegetarian" who still eats meat).

Technically he probably could have sold or traded the Noobian ship for a different one. The ship was in perfect working order except for one part.

No

Too sensible.

You do realize that the fett clones aren't white right? The Empire doesn't care about your skin color.