Warmasters' Triumvirate XIII

PROMPT-ANSWER:

Either the Emperor would have user Kane to surpress xenos uprisings or revolutions vor he would have sent him Ingo unknown territory to push the boundaries if the great crusade over the galactic frontier. He would have known that he can't keep Kane from the battlefield and in doing so he someday has to execute Kane.

I reckon Valorn would've been head of the Imperial Spy Network. After all, his legion has a pretty significant focus on stealth so he'd probably be used to overseeing covert operations. As for if he'd like it or not, I feel like he'd enjoy the challenges this new position granted him at first. After a while he'd probably start to get restless, likely feeling that while his cerebral skills are being exercised his physical combat skills are being left to rust. He'd never outright hate the position, but I feel he would start to feel trapped by it in his later years.

I suppose Mot would have been a satisfactory empire builder, but it was clear to many that his aspirations were too large to let him survive for long after the Crusade. At least he was good at building infrastructure on worlds that he conquered.

Oooh, PROMPT:
Which legion is your legion's rival and/or hated enemy, and why?
The Forge Lords hate the Titan Marchers for their ideals and for inflicting great losses on them at the first battle of Terra.

Raj would most likely take up the role of civil engineer. He would inevitably pick up some sort of work involving construction of crafting, and his countless years of strategically analyzing cities and entire planets would have given him great insight on effectively designing buildings and infrastructure. He would greatly enjoy his new life. The Crusade had been a blast, usually literally in his case, but Raj would settle into a more peaceful life quite easily. The thing that would keep him on edge however, would be his warlike brothers who'd have problems laying down their weapons.

Raj would be the guy that tries to get Gyahdred to have a drink and come have a smoke outside.

Not much more to add to that.

Raj likes basically every single one of his brothers in some way, except for Mot and his legion. Their brash, selfish and aggressive attitudes are directly opposed to the Titan Marchers' values of patience, rationality and duty.

Dammit, why didn't you tell me you made a new thread! Now I feel like an idiot.

Doc, this is your fault! You're fired! Dropped! Terminated! Get outta here! Fuck this, I'll have my own thread! With blackjack and hookers!
>So Frederick is going to be the Sep Warmaster? We're all in agreement on that? Has any form of consensus been reached on who stays Loyal then? Rokuten?
Rokuten has better things to do than stay loyal. Like usurping the warmaster.
>Good stuff. I should get to fluffing out some legion characters.
Same.
>PROMPT: What role would your Primarch have fulfilled once the Great Crusade was finished? Would he have been happy with this role?
Undoubtedly, Rokuten would've continued his ambition for the throne of Terra, and ultimately be executed for treason after either failing to succeed in a coup or having his treachery leaked. At least, that's more likely than succeeding. The Ogre Legion would schism between those who accept penance for their primarch's betrayal and those who were loyal to him above the Imperium.
>Which legion is your legion's rival and/or hated enemy, and why?
Ironically, the Ussaran Liberators, a fellow separatist legion. Their ideologies are polar opposites; one supports an egalitarian movement of equality while the other supports a traditional semi-caste-based hierarchy.

The legion also does not really like the Death's Heads, ironically, but Rokuten finds them a useful instrument more willing to fight dirty than the Ogre Legion.

>Also, what are the new dudes called? I read some disagreement on the name.
Whatever you wanna call them. I call them the Honhon Marines.

Sorry guys, I'm doing a lot of stuff in the weekend and won't really have time to contribute. Will check in now and then though

Speaking of Napoleonic Marines, is Totally Not British still around?

I spoke with him on Discord a while back. He's been busy job hunting.

That's just my input

Napboi has not confirmed nor denied that name.

Ashur would most likely have been responsible for infrastructure planning and transportation, both planetary and interplanetary, postum the galaxy being conquered.

That is difficult to say. I think a rivalry between the Loxodontii and the [Dragoons] would be interesting since both are focused on fast attack. Another rivalry/antipathy would be with the Chosen of Hecate for their intense psykerdom (Be the Magnus to my Russ baby).

Hatred? Good choices are the Death's heads and Einchurt or the Gunslingers and Kane.

If Kane uses more bikes in his tactics they may also be worthy rivals for fast-attack tactics.

>What role would your Primarch have fulfilled once the Great Crusade was finished? Would he have been happy with this role?
After helping out Emil, Pacha would've just called it a day and retired, going back to tending his farm, but always ready to answer requests for help or to meet with his extended family.
In the meantime, the Golden Mountains would've dedicated themselves to taming Death Worlds and making them properly inhabitable.

>Which legion is your legion's rival and/or hated enemy, and why?
The Forge Lords. Pacha sees Mot Hadad as an utter and complete tyrant who doesn't care about the citizens of the Imperium.

Lots if bikes yes.. Fast vehicles. Are cool. Thxare slow.

Tanks are slow.

Kane has no rival cause he would have to aknowledge that the other is in the same level.

However, he totally dislkes Rokuten because he hates Clowns and don't und er stand Samurai culture. Who would enter a gunfight with a sword?

>Tanks are slow
Depends on the tank.

>However, he totally dislkes Rokuten because he hates Clowns and don't und er stand Samurai culture. Who would enter a gunfight with a sword?
AKTHUALLY, the Ogre Legion has no problem with guns, though they consider their use in duels as strange.

So, what'd I miss?

Not much, weekend tend to be slow anyway. Couple prompts.

Don't drink and shitpost, kids. That's what happens.

Don't be ThatGuy.

Maybe a second Nikaea type event about religion.

>Maybe a second Nikaea type event about religion.
The Emperor is pretty set upon not allowing religion period.

Exactly, it's more like him taking the legions off to the side and telling them to get their act together and maybe addressing why the Mechanicus is okay. It gets interrupted before he can really put his foot down by the Ullanor Crusade which leads to him being incapacitated. So it leaves everyone a little confused on the status of things and leads into the schism in the Heresy.

Why would they be confused though?
>Dad calls everyone together because some of us did something he told us not to do
>Before he can yell at us, he gets shot
>Wait, does that mean he wants us to do the thing he told us not to do?

Also, in canon, the Council happens after Ullanor.

The Pale Hounds really hate the Symphonious Disciples. Like REALLY hate them. It's mostly to do with the SD's zeal, which the hounds view as a poor mans professionalism, but it's also got a great deal to do with the fact that the SD's almost worship the Emperor as a god. Even then that's less to do with the fact that it violates the imperial truth and more to do with the fact that they see it as incredibly narcissistic (seeing as it implies that primarchs/space marines are basically demigods and that whole scenario trivialises the value the hounds put on perfection, seeing as they have to struggle to achieve their perfection and Godhood implies that perfection is inherent, so all the Hounds struggles are worthless. The Hounds don't like that implication)

Something something "Astronomicon", something something "Humanity's Psychic Ascension", something something "Mechanical Apotheosis", something something "Transhumanism probably"

Rival: Chosen of Hekate/Lambach. Friendly rivalry at first, Emil playing the Hare to Lambach's Tortoise in regards to their usual specialties.

Hated Enemy: *Also* Chosen of Hekate/Lambach. Lambach should have been the yin to Emil's yang, acting as the more conservative counterbalance when Emil pressed too far forward, but always serving as a competitor to spur Emil further ahead. No one hates someone quite as much as two similar people who chose different paths, for by doing so they implicitly reject the other's choice and call it into question.

Lambach sees only that Emil fled, or was unworthy of Chaos. Emil sees only that Lambach succumbed to temptation, or took the easy way out.

Both fail to see the other from an objective lens.

(If I'm putting too many words in Lambach's mouth, let me know though Borp)

I should be mad at you but I can't.

...

Your pics are starting to make me feel uncomfortable Roku-San plis stop.

The horny kind of uncomfortable or the "Oh god, I don't remember what that was called but I know it had lolis in it" uncomfortable?

The "I have been having groin pains for the past week and my doctors don't know how to make it go away so I'm just trying to wait it out but you posting smug girls drawn in korean sweatshops is making my nether regions flare up in painful arousal" uncomfortable.

You cunt.

Consider fetishes other than lolicon pls

So the post from last thread is All the Primarchs go to see Star Wars
>Gyahdred sees Greivous and thinks "THAT EXACTLY IS WHAT MY LEGION NEEDS"
>Rokuten won't stop pretending he's Mace Windu
>Emil spends the next few days trying to build a light saber and soon comes to resent the Vader jokes.
>Einchurt is quiet afterwards but soon gets a poster of Grand Moff Tarkin, his new waifu.
>Linares cosplays Chewbacca
>Mot is irritated and puzzled that nobody compares him to Vader. Nobody does because they don't want to piss him off.
>Pacha is quiet, holding back from most of the discussion of droids and space battles. He's still wondering why the milk was blue.

Good point. Alright, so:
>Marduk and Yochin both do some religion. The Emperor is irritated, but it's not that big of a deal as neither of them is quite so bad at conquering as Lorgar. Mot is also up to no good, with some alleging that he's trying to set himself up as divinity. Marduk is the best of the bunch, keeping it as mostly legion only thing.
>Things draaaaag. Looking at you Yochin and Mot.
>The Emperor gets pissed.
>He's going to go yell at them and then it occurs to him that there's also the admech and he really ought to plan this out carefully so as to avoid causing problems. Good job, Emperor.
>Summons everyone to Kalkedon to discuss the Imperial Truth.
>No more religion, you guys. Except the Admech. What they're doing is fine. I'm thinking the best way to get this sort of thing to make sense is if it's sort of done up in parallel to Confucius on religion, see below. (I'm in grad school for ancient history. What can I say?)
>Prepares to implement, when OH SHIT MASSIVE WAAAAAGH
>Ullanor Crusade Ensues.
>Emperor is Vegetized.
>Yochin's cult, having not been disestablished because of the WAAAAAAAGH gets a huge boost because people are terrified...

>Ullanor is ended, vaporized?
>Ullanor campaign ends with the defeat of the Orks. But by this time, Yochin's cult has really spread some.
>There's some movement to disestablish Yochin, Mot, and Marduk's stuff, but none of it is particularly clear. The Crisis of Ullanor prevented things from being well managed.
>Rules as intended are clear. No religion except admech because they make stuff. Rules as written not so much.
>Yochin makes the case to Je'Sha that the cult holds the Imperium together and that the worshipers ought not be censured because they're mere mortals.
>Je'Sha thinks this sounds good because Imperial Cult worshiping mortals are often loyal citizens etc. In return, Yochin steps down as high priest and all that. From then on, mortals run the Ecclesiarchy. Astartes protect them, but do not rule them.
>Some people do not think this has gone far enough. Assur or Frederick order censure and Einchurt? eagerly complies.
>Things heat up from there.
>Years later, the Ecclesiarchy uses Kalkedon as justification for its monotheistic policies.

So what actually does Kalkedon say that causes so much trouble in interpretation?
Well, the problem is that the Emperor really did a good job wording the damn thing so as not to piss off the admech and to allow him a free hand to implement it as he saw fit. You see, the Big E hadn't counted on being vegetized.

I'm imagining something like:
We do not yet know how to serve humanity, how can we hope to serve gods?
Ours is the realm of the manifest, it is beneath us to speculate on superstition, goblins, and gods.

The catch here is that without the Emperor to push the censure of the Imperial Cult, Yochin rules lawyer that the Emperor is part of that manifest realm and he's not mere superstition. The Admech loophole is there, too, since Machine Spirit is distinctly measurable and quantifiable. Mot is easier to nail for encouraging superstition, but nobody's thinking of him until it's too late. As usual.

Well you're the one who started it

>Rokuten won't stop pretending he's Mace Windu
Rokuten thinks he's Palpatine.
I did not start your loli fetish!

On board with this.

Neither did I

It was GOD!

>All the Primarchs go to see Star Wars
Valorn commissions a Jyn Erso body pillow and insults Einchurt's "CGIafu"

Last thread I asked about good books about chaos marines aside from the Word Bearers omnibus. Any suggestions?

Also, how individually powerful should Mot Hadad be? I can't see him being a combat powerhouse but I don't think it fits thematically for him to be Lorgar-tier.

>Primarchs see Star Wars
Raj just wants a Death Star… he also cringes at the scene where the AT-AT's are tripped.

>Primarchs See Star Wars.
Refuses to admit it but is totally cheering for the Rebels and is offended that Obi-Wan turns down the death sticks

>In terms of the council
Argues against religion because religion implies an order and all people are equal.

>Argues against religion because religion implies an order and all people are equal.
>Rokuten's fw

Oh...also 8th Ed have hovertanks

>This pleases me greatly

OK. To recap the issues raised with this at the end of the last thread:

It is a significant change from the OU. Lorgar walked, then crossed, the line between hero-worship of the Emperor and religious worship of the God-Emperor. Although Yochin is basically rock & roll Lorgar, Marduk starts off worshiping a destroyer goddess and Mot.... isn't well detailed in the google docs. As an aside, the more you guys rely on what you all remember from the threads and discussion on other platforms, the more closed off you get.

Now, change from the OU is to be expected (otherwise you're writing OU fanfic rather than an AU), but this is playing with a central figure of the 40k milieu so you probably shouldn't undertake it lightly. Think on these questions.

1. Are you comfortable making a significant change to the aims and methods of the Emperor?
2. If so, is a change on religious matters the absolute last change, or are you open to more tinkering with that character?
3. If not, how do you recommend reconciling established themes in the religious Legions with the atheistic ambitions of the Emperor?

I guess my view - which is only advice - should be clear from the tone, so I'll just throw another 2c on (3). If you dial back the religiosity of the Legions and have a brewing crisis at the time of the Emperor's disappearance, then the Triumvirs could preside over Kalkedon and the settlement (or lack of settlement?) there would reflect their views, not those of the Emperor.

40k has always had hovertanks, Mon-keigh.

Yet another idea for a guard regiment, this time seps. It was an idea from Hektor Heresy that never came into fruition.

>Kharkov Death Battalions
Not-Russky penal tank regiment from an icy prison world, tank hatches are welded shut.

If Frederick is SepWarmaster, I'll go Loyalist, since 1) I can see Einchurt staying loyal because "muh orders" and 2) so as to stop the pussyfooting

The Death's Heads and Einchurt wouldn't truly know an end to the Great Crusade. Their job is to protect Humanity from not only the worst monsters it knows of, but those it should never know of (I'm imagining a number of DH Campaigns show up simply as "+Data Expunged+" or something). They would have continued being the things that hunt that which goes bump in the night.

Actually, these two kind of tie in. I can see Einchurt being the one the Emperor can trust to tell things to simply because he knows Einy isn't the type to get emotional over things, so I'd think that Einchurt would know for a while before the Brotherwar that his role would always be the watcher in the dark, so to speak, and would want to stay with the Imperium since, even if they're going pants-on-head, they're still the Humanity dad wanted to save so bad. I could also see him at some point fighting Daemons and other warp-spawn during the Great Crusade, and recognizing the same during the Brotherwar against the Traitors and realizing that maybe this was the very thing he was designed to protect man from.

Je ne sais pas, just spit-balling as usual

My only worry about making it about religion is that wasn't the entire great crusade about stopping religion? I mean in OU when he finds out about Lorgar doing it he doesn't hold a council he straight up forces the Ultramarines to murder Lorgars favorite planet of innocent people.
This is because he'd made it clear that relegion was bad from the start. Nokeea was putting a stop to psykers which he had been fine with until that point.
Just how I see it anyway?

Yes! The parallelism between the Deaths Heads and the Brotherhood of the Abyss continues!
Honestly one big reason I'd be sad to see them go loyalist.

The crusade was about conquering the galaxy first, Imperial Truth second.

Imperial Truth is meaningless if the galaxy isn't under control. But, in canon it was certainly a priority (Monarchia)

Well in the OU it was only Lorgar, now we've got Yochin, Marduk, and Mot(?), so he can't just forcibly show one that "religion bad euphoria good" and use them as an example, as he'd have a larger issue on his hands. The psyker issue involved multiple Legions, and divided them, whereas everyone kind of thought Lorgar was silly with his praying.

And yes, the point was to wipe out religion, that's uh. Sort of the problem

>Mot
What makes you think he's a religious primarch?

>The crusade was about conquering the galaxy first, Imperial Truth second.
The entire purpose of the Great Crusade was to institute the Imperial Truth.

I do like the dichotemy of the one who seems unconcerned with mortals staying Loyal to protect them, and the one concerned with mortals secceeding because he doesn't like how some of them are acting

Nah dude I like it, it wasn't something I had thought of but it makes a lot of sense.
During the crusade Lambach has a lot of respect for Emil and sees him as probably the best of the psykic brothers.
Which would be why he doesn't quite understand why Emil wouldn't turn against the Emperor after he attempts to ban them.

I've seen him refferenced by others as one of the religious ones, but I never got that vibe. Hence the question mark

So when does the Emperor assign the Warmasters? In the OU he does it after Ullanor, but now Ullanor happens earlier(?) and the Emperor gets incapacitated. I'd also like to repeat that, in the OU, the Council of Nikaea/Trial of Magnus happens AFTER Ullanor, and now we're saying there's a second Council against religion, so obviously after the anti-Psyker one, and BEFORE Ullanor?

The timeline doesn't make sense to me here.

Oh weird, I never intended for him to come across that way. Anyone else have input on that?

Bigger hats.

Well they are based on chaos dwarves.

It stems from Xun mentioning Mot in as one of the Primarchs chastened at Kalkedon.

Hats not big enough, bigger hats. I want to be able to use them as body pillows by the end of it.

Ohh, that might have been for basically ensuring that worlds he conquered were loyal to him first and constructing manufactorums on them that weren't sanctioned by the Mechanicus.

Oh. That's trivial. Roboute did the same thing and doesn't get called a Traitor.

I think we could / should just throw the psyker 1 in with the relegion one. Like he does the big council and is all super serious and band calling him a god or whatever. Then as everyone is getting out of thier chairs to leave he is like. "Oh. P.S. No more psykers either, cause that can lead to discoveries about relegion I don't want you to know about. Kthxbai."

Roboute wasn't an asshole. Is Mot an asshole?

>Roboute wasn't an asshole.
[citation needed]

...

Everything goes to shit in the OU crazy fast, like 5 years from Ullanor.
Let's say the Emperor postpones Ullanor a bit, to his detriment, since the Orks are more ready.
The build up to the full heresy is a bit longer too, after Ullanor.
So
>980s 3 Warmasters
>99x Nikea if we have it. (A decade early)
>997 Kalkedon
>997 Ullanor begins (late)
>999 Emperor wounded
>005 Ullanor ends
>005 Trouble begins
>007 Brother War gets going
>010 Chaos makes its showing as rainstorm begins

Else 2c seems pretty good.

Why has his other hand gone dickward?

Roboute is subjectively an asshole, Mot is written to be an asshole.

He's grabbing the sword's grip by the pommel?
See? Nobody likes Mot, especially not the Mechanicum.

>PROMPT: What role would your Primarch have fulfilled once the Great Crusade was finished? Would he have been happy with this role?:

Je'She's role would have most likely been to oversee the reconstruction of the Imperium according to the Emperor's will, as well as to maintain order, with The Sentinels acting like military police/humanitarian SWAT teams in small battle-groups across the Imperium

I feel like The Sentinels and the Ogre Legion would have a rivalry, as the Ogre Legion's philosophy of the warrior class lording over the serfdom conflicts with The Sentinel's philosophy of being a leader is to serve, not to be a tyrant.
Also, the Ogre Legionnaire's devotion to their primarch is fanatical even beyond the normal legionnaire admiration for their primarch, which The Sentinels find disturbing.
Primarch personalities conflict, tactical doctrines conflict, and their views on humanity conflict.

which equals cool mutual dislike/rivalry ;)
What do you think Rotuken?

.

>All the Primarchs go to see Star Wars
>Je'She is in love with Tatooine, thinks it's the best planet ever
>Gets offended when Anakin hates sand
>Spends the next few months re-writing the script in his spare time to make it less cringy
> It's in Harrdinese. All of it

Sounds fine to me

Yeah, I think it would create a really cool dynamic in the loyalist side.
Je'She could rely on him to get the job done

>Primarchs see Star Wars
>Einchurt falls in love with Grand Moff Tarkan
>Is mildly perturbed when he realizes he can't make lances collide into one another to make one super lance and thus enable him to build his own deathstar
>Says fuck it and just designs Star Killer Base

If both Einchurt and Raj are on the Loyalist side, the Imperium's is gonna burn a shitton of worlds… might be something worth keeping in mind.

>I feel like The Sentinels and the Ogre Legion would have a rivalry, as the Ogre Legion's philosophy of the warrior class lording over the serfdom conflicts with The Sentinel's philosophy of being a leader is to serve, not to be a tyrant.
Well, yes and no. Part of their philosophy is duty to protect their subjects, like feudal lords. They don't really see leadership as doing whatever you want; there's an assumption your lord won't be an ass to civilians.

Enemy civilians are free game though. And levies.
>Also, the Ogre Legionnaire's devotion to their primarch is fanatical even beyond the normal legionnaire admiration for their primarch, which The Sentinels find disturbing.
>Primarch personalities conflict, tactical doctrines conflict, and their views on humanity conflict.
>which equals cool mutual dislike/rivalry ;)
>What do you think Rotuken?
That could work. Je'She is also observant of politics, and he would undoubtedly butt heads with Rokuten in the struggle for soft power.
>designs Star Killer Base
>Designing the worst part about the new movies so far
Trigger warning, Elephant-kun. Maximum smug lolis unleashed.

>dat pic

got dayum son you got to calm down

Yeah, I was thinking he was building an array of forges loyal to him first and knight houses with some really, really weird practices.
Is Mot religious? Are the practices of those Knights religion?
Doesn't matter-- it's a rebellion risk given what a dick Mot is and calling it cultic gives the Emperor an excuse to shit it down.

May also be that with all these down to earth primarchs, religion isn't being stamped out well enough.
Might be wise to get everyone's views on it.

Gyahdred holds to the Imperial Truth. As far as he is concerned, the practices of Stovokor are entirely compatible with it-- it's basically Cyborg Space Buddhism and so doesn't go in for gods or ritual. He's against machine Canon by and large, too, preferring understanding. Still propriates the machine spirits, though.
He sees cults with a perfect divine model as toxic to humanity and has no tolerance for Yochin.

Dare I ask what he does when somebody lends him Dune?

Mot himself is not religious, but the corruption of Hashut seeps in first through the knight houses he propogates and spreads from there. They might have been chaos worshipers even before the Great Crusade, but we're not sure.

Yeah, I was thinking more of a gentle rivalry at the start of the crusade, but the two legions would slowly grate against each other as the campaigns progressed, to all out war during the Secession

The Spice Must Flow

That could work along the borders of The Western Imperium, making them shadows of what they once were, which sets a cool stage for the 41st millenium, three forces constantly fighting over barren worlds

>The Spice Must Flow
>Mot himself is not religious, but the corruption of Hashut seeps in first through the knight houses he propogates and spreads from there.
He propagates knight houses?

...

I pretty much fleshed out Emil's perspective on the Gods and such already, although I don't think anyone read what I wrote.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I read it, I really liked it but I was too tired to reply. That's the one where Emil talks to the Emperor yeah?

Yeah, that's the one.

I always believed that in the year of 30k where little knowledge of psychiks existed, it was viewed as a miraculous occurrence born from faith rather than willpower. As such, we could rule out psychik and religious practices in a single nikaean edict where Emps declares "The outlawing of employing esoteric and arcane scripture in regards to their superstitious nature going against the Imperial Truth of reason and science". This could spark a more interesting debate then "We have these dudes who can shoot mind bullets wat do", since our primarchs wouldn't really know about psychik energies, as well, while primarchs like Ashur, Marduk, Lambach and Emil are facing some serious threat to their legion's cohesion as certain core values of their culture are attacked.
This is topped off with Yochin using a loophole since he isn't applying esoteric or arcane scripture but rather fosters a personal cult revolving the Emperor which is only just developing religious motifs as we come into the brotherwar. We can apply this Nilaean edict prior to Ullanor, with Emps being throne'd and the primarchs simply not playing along much since the one to punish them is currently unavailable.