What's the one RPG system you hate the most?

That's your reason? Read the comics and see how you feel afterwards.

Savage worlds
Every gimmick possible crammed into a shit system with exploding damage to the point a tard can luck into killing a god.
White knight authors, un-detailed settings, authors that cant be bothered to learn about firearms, tanks, swords, armor, anything in the setting infact.
Boooooooooo

HOOT HOOT MOTHERFUCKER

Numenera, but even more so, the Cypher system.

The Numenera system could've been great. I wouldn't even have minded the d20 if they'd gotten the numbers right.

It's not even that it's entirely unplayable... in fact, it's just so perfectly mediocre and half-assed that it causes even more problems because shitposters can argue that it's still good, causing our weekly Numenera threads.

Cypher system is just a generic version of the system, which makes it worse because they try and translate it to different genres when it doesn't even handle its own genre that well.

But really, the worst crime it has is being so seemingly good that it gets shitposted every week, and even worse, makes idiots reply to it. Every. Damn. Time.

Its unfortunate you don't like it Wayne. I like making characters and coming up with the gm intrusions, and my players liked them too. Although we only played a mini shot before I had to leave for boot camp, so maybe I don't know. All I know is that I had fun.

That's really my problem with it. It's not that bad, but it's not great, and most of my hate towards it stems from it causing Shit threads.

I really don't like Mutants and Masterminds. People around here seem to tote it as the be all end all of Supers systems. But it is clearly just 3.5 with some extra whistles and shit. I mean, yeah it's better than dnd 3.5, but I guess I think it's overrated more than anything?

Also ADnD, classic, and the endless OSR games. There is very little redeeming about them for me. I kind of get the charm for maybe a one shot or something, but games can do so much more than just running the same type of game you did in the 70s.

As long as I spouting unpopular opinions, I might as well tie the whole noose and say that I hate Elric. The character, the books, the whole setting, and the various rpgs.

I know on a logical level that scale is relative, but I still can't get into that kind of headspace where fighting an owl is an epic encounter even if you happen to be a mouse.

That thing would take a ground up overhaul to do what it should. All those great ideas and the execution is...that. It reads like a great system and then turns into before you know what happened.

Glad I wasn't the only one who had issues with it. GMing it just about gave me a stroke.

I can see that. Being so mediocre that you get mad at the praise for it. I feel that way for DnD.

Anima.

I really dont want to have to fucking bust out the fibonacci sequence and the calculators to play an RPG.

Limits blow my fucking mind. The idea that a mechanic like that could get past a design team is just... Wow.

I get the idea of it. I even understand its role in the system and how it works in practice. But holy fuck, having someone roll amazingly well and then being told 'You can't use that' is the biggest fucking downer mechanic ever, and incorporating it as a core part of the system makes it fucking unavoidable.

Scion. Such an excellent concept, but they tried to force it into the Storyteller System, which isn't meant for throwing around giant clouds of dice. On top of that, they balanced it with all the delicacy of a meat cleaver nosejob, with clear tiers of power between different Pantheons and skill sets.

thirded
took me a dog's age to finish reading the sourcebook, both due to the fact that it's three completely separate systems and the utterly unforgivable editing.

DM it is a goddamn nightmare, I was running for a group of 4 and I can't imagine if you had any more players or street sams, deckers, AND mages. We've moved on to Anarchy and never looked back.

Personally: Fate. It just really isn't to my taste, I can feel my brain just stopping when I try and understand the rules.

I get why people like it though, and I really /want/ to like it. I just fucking don't.

Actual hatred though? Savage Worlds but for different reasons than - it's got shitty quality control, some /great/ gimmicks, some less great gimmicks, but otherwise isn't very portable to other systems and just kinda comes out to be a bit of an overloaded Subway sandwich if anything.

But you know, sometimes an overloaded Subway sandwich is precisely what you want, and the things it does well it does VERY well.

>But holy fuck, having someone roll amazingly well and then being told 'You can't use that' is the biggest fucking downer mechanic ever
That's what Edge is for. You go "holy fuck, look at these exploding dice", and then spend a point of edge to keep them.

It's like your luck stat matters or something.

>Push the Limit: Add your Edge rating to your test, either before or after the roll.
>This use of Edge also allows you to ignore any limit on your test.

But the system actively punishes you for doing that if things aren't serious.

SR is a lethal system, and Edge is a very valuable safety net. Get an amazing roll on something that isn't super important? You have to choose between something interesting and fun and conserving resources that might be necessary for your survival. That's a shitty fucking choice.

What. The anima combat sequence is basically roll dice, compare the margin of difference, add any mods (which are rare) and then * the DR of armor.

I don't know why they made tables for every possible value, since apparently it confuses a lot of people when the equation is easy.

Storytelling. It's crunch for people who don't like crunch, gamist for people who don't like games, and story-driven for people who can't tell stories. I've played Scion and Vampire, and apart from some halfway decent fluff (cringeworthy nomenclature notwithstanding -- "Childe"? "Sire"? Seriously?) they need a complete overhaul to be decent.

It doesn't help that every person I've encountered who's been a White Wolf fan has been the worst. Every. Single. One. Sexually deviant, emotionally incontinent, obsessed with ritual, and at times mentally deranged.

At first I thought it was just a fluke -- like, yeah, of course a roleplaying game is going to have a fanbase composed mostly of weirdos and outcasts. We're nerds, it comes with the territory. But literally every White Wolf fan I've ever met, without exception, has been someone I could see shooting up an elementary school in Connecticut.

Storyteller is an odd duck of a system. It's full of stuff that claims it's all about the narrative, and yet it's only every recently we've seen even the slightest trace of narrativist design actually involved in the mechanics.

>Regaining Edge

>Good roleplaying.
>Heroic acts of self-sacrifce.
>Achievement of important personal goals.
>Enduring a critical glitch without using a Close Call (you get a point of Edge back to balance the scales a bit; this should be used judiciously, though, so as not to always let the players off the hook when they roll a critical glitch).
>Succeeding in an important objective.
>Being particularly brave or smart.
>Pushing the storyline forward.
>Having the right skills in the right place at the right time.
>Impressing the group with humor or drama.

And the all important;

>Your character gets one point of Edge back after a fulflling meal and a good night’s sleep (at least eight hours)

If you're not using at least 1 Edge per day you get a good night's sleep, then you're wasting it.

WoD
it always ends with a literal trainwreck in the thundra and everyone wanking over their 1920's mafia movie expys

Fate. Tried it with multiple groups as both player and GM and its lack of consistent stats just starts to feel like a really inconsistent game of Mage: the Awakening, except the power is now trying to pass off a Humphrey Bogart stare as a convincing gimmick for the scene instead of arguing if your character has enough power to instantly heal some schmuck's body back to slightly bruised after being shot down a 40 story building.

Conceptually, the game makes sense, and there's deep truth that its mechanically more complex than it seems. Fate sits in some weird uncanny valley of open ended play - there's other games that do the whole 'make up your own stats' rules so much more elegantly without core rule books that are over 500 goddamn pages (Risus), mechanically encourages a lot more crazy shit with its open ended focus (Wushu), or goes into a deeper opposite end of crunch (Fiasco)

Any PbtA game. They read like such pretentious bullshit that I can't even get through reading one to see if it's any good.

Same with Luke Crane's shit.

Anything by Palladium cuz Uncle Kevs a crook.

Does it help to shift the scale up? Assume human-sized mice battling an owl dragon.

Alternatively, channel that into playing powerful but cowardly characters.

"HOLY SHIT GUYS IT'S A DRAGON RUNRUNRUN-"
"Aren't YOU a dragon?"
"Well... uh... it just feels weird thinking he's not that dangerous, alright?"

Fuck off, buddy. This isn't a "defend your favorite system" thread.

mmmBITCH!!!!

DnD sucks ass, but to qualify, i must say Unknown Armies.
love the fuck outta the setting
but
THAT SYSTEM IS AAAAASSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

FATE.
Dungeon World.
GURPS.

Have you looked at 3e?

But if you'll always have Edge to burn to ignore limits when you get a great roll, what's the fucking point of Limits?

Either they're a waste of space and an arbitrary tax on player resources, or they're pure anti-fun bullshit. Neither shows the system in a particularly favourable light.

Any system that focuses on having large dice pools. Storyteller system, Shadowrun, whatever. The settings are all well and good but rolling 20 - 30 dice every time you do something is tedious as shit and bogs down game play.

Maybe take a look at the one roll engine
/ wild talents if you still want to take a look at the whole supers tabletop thing.

Not gonna lie, it has issues, but I like it

Legends of the Wulin.

I like quite a lot the ideas in there, I really do. But... at the same time, why the FUCK does it need new words for so many of its concepts, why the FUCK are secret arts still nearly incomprehensible. (though admittedly less so than Weapons of the Gods)
Combat can be quite cinematic... if you're able to deal with all the bookkeeping and crunch.

Add to that the publishing failure that makes me wonder if physical books actually exist, and it is unlikely I'll ever be able to play.

Exalted. Vampire.

As someone who adores LotW, I can't fault a single thing you said. Honestly, LotW might count as my favourite and most hated system simultaneously, because so many of those great ideas are badly executed, pointlessly obfuscated or simply absent, forcing you to figure out how the gaps are meant to be filled. It is a glorious clusterfuck of a system that could have used a lot more editing, and at this point I'm just hoping someone does a cleaned up, slimmed down rewrite at some point in the future.

Seriously. All the problems LotW has, the more you play it the more you find. It's so goddamn frustrating.

This almost never comes up in actual gameplay because being good enough to get a large number of successes requires having a good stat, and stats determine the limit. The only exceptions are Sneaking and Gymnastics because AGI isn't part of the physical limit calculation.

>Either they're a waste of space and an arbitrary tax on player resources
bingo, they're an arbitrary waste of player resources because players have an arbitrary generation of resources.

Perfect fucking timing

I fucking hate the inbred calvalcade of fucking garbage systems that followed godlike.

im not even gonna touch the lore, but the system is the most unbalanced, clunky, and just unintuitive mess I've ever seen.

And I didn't even care until I started seeing it mentioned in every fifth fucking thread.

Like seriously anytime anyone asks for a system you retards chime in. You're just shittier gurps, at least it cares about crunch ( even if it's just as fucking clunky).

Seriously, how the fuck this mistake of a system has people who can unironically enjoy it baffles me

Fuck off

I believe the makers of it were working on a more streamlined system.

But yeah, I have that same love/hate thing with it.

>I fucking hate the inbred calvalcade of fucking garbage systems that followed godlike.
Champions and Aberrant would like to say go fuck yourself.

I was going to use FATE for the next game I ran because my player really likes it and really didn't like Mutants and masterminds 3e...but I keep hearing shit about it. I just cannot have a game or even a social hobby that I'm genuinely happy with, can I?

GURPS

FATE is good at what it does and some groups love it, but it has its weaknesses.

I appreciate the design, but the lack of mechanical stuff to get my teeth into and the generally crappy combat just annoys me.

If you're not super attached to getting to play with mechanics and don't need deep combat, it works fine, and the narrative mechanics with aspects and the fate point economy really are superb.

Honestly if that's the case then I might actually like it, I'm so sick and tired of having to juggle mechanics for fighting, and would rather just keep it as brief as possible for the campaign sequel I'm planning for my solo player.

Would rather just freeform roleplay in this case, but eh if it's what she wants...

Ah right, here was that newer system they were working on.
(still not that much info I could easily find tho)

youtube.com/watch?v=wrr6nXG54O4

>a tard can luck into killing a god

Or combat can go on for hours if the GM miscalculates Toughness.

Or you can be shot point blank in the face with a shotgun and take zero damage.

Or be stabbed with a nail file and die of a heart attack.

Or take seven times more damage than is needed to kill you, then survive with no injuries.

Or get punched once and take an injury so severe that you can't roll a success for the rest of the game and end up getting killed by some yahoo cannon fodder.

That game has some of the stupidest math I've ever seen.

2d20
I think Modiphius' design process went like "Ok, we have no idea what we're doing. Let's hire the fucker who killed off Warhammer."

I've played a little of the Infinity RPG and it's seemed okay so far, although problems can take a while to emerge.

What were your issues with it?

5E for D&D, Exalted for non-D&D.

FATE is a game made by GMs for GMs. If anyone in your game is not a story teller, it will not work for them.

This is very true. FATE is built on the notion of shared narrative agency rather than it being concentrated on the GM, so if any players are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with that they might have a bad time.

Hahahaha kevins a a crook hehehe.
Wwoooooooo one bad kick starter and hes a gaming felon hahahaha

Apart from the clunkyness, the exception-based
design, the unintuitive and repetitive dicerolling, the beancounting the various fate and momentum pools, and the forced halfass.., sorry; superfun and cinematic narrativism, it is almost usable.

The Infinity version only has 2 different metacurrency pools, so that's an improvement? But could you expand on stuff? I am really curious, and it's always good to know faults and weaknesses of systems so you can compensate for them ahead of time.

As one of the Fate-haters quoted, honestly, try the system because my wants and playstyle =! everyone else's. Fate keeps everything to a small dice pool with lower numbers - if the desire is for quick and easily readable rolls so the game doesn't get bogged down by reading dice, Fate excels at that. Its resolution mechanics aren't my personal cup of tea, but this thread is all about what we as individuals aren't feeling good about

>Solo player
>if it's what she wants...
Seriously dude, nothing an anonymous internet forum can say should keep you from testing what both you guys might appreciate

Continuum. Sweet mother of Schrodinger, CONTINUUM. The rules are so god-damned complicated you'd need a degree in quantum physics just to play it.

I appreciate Continuum as a thing that exists, even if I'd never want to play it.

I would love to play continuum based on descriptions of the system but have never found any discussion of it on Veeky Forums (partly because "Continuum" is an actual word and makes it a bit difficult to search in the archives) nor a pdf of the actual rules. I'm probably going to hit up the pdf share thread, actually

ORE, it just rubs me the wrong way for a dozen reasons throughout the system.

A close second is Tenra Bansho Zero for the weird "social class determines what gear you can/will use, ever". As in, a brigand will throw away a noble's sword because it's too classy for him, even if he normally uses the same but cheaper style of weapon. And you need to be a noble to use giant clubs. An uncouth and savage mountain oni with zero social standing not only lacks the use of their iconic weapon, but the very concepts of clothes, tools or weapons at all.

From what I've gleaned from the Infinity quickstart, they do seem to have streamlined it somewhat there. My main grief comes from Mutant Chronicles which is just a clusterfuck of astronomical proportions every which way (and I say that as someone who has actually played it - for a short time before it went into the bin). Their Conan doesn't fill me with happy thoughts either.

D&D: 3.5 as it is. Too bloated, too unwieldy.

Non-D&D: Eclipse Phase. The setting is AMAZING and I want to play it but goodness gracious why do the ruleset and character creation have to be so iterative and self-referential?
Here's hoping EP2e addresses at least some of my complaints.

Vampire: The Masquerade
Because everyone I ever met who plays this is not just a weirdo but a huge douche.

Pathfinder, undoubtedly Pathfinder. It encourages such awful habits and we're going to have to put up with it being a major player in the industry for, what, another 10 years? We're going to see neckbeards screaming at each other about attacks of opportunity over their retirement home porridge. This is a nigh-on 20 year-old game and that wouldn't be a problem if it were GOOD, but it's not, it's BAD and it has way too much influence. It's the microwave of RPGs: if you stare into it too much you'll turn retarded. All the proof you need is at your FLGS every weekend for PFS.

wow, this is hitting such a nerve that your vitriol is spilling into other threads! maybe it's time to step away from the computer and take a long, calming walk.

>another 10 years?

Try another twenty, at the very least, of you continuing to impotently rage at a game that's better than you'll allow yourself to admit it is.

Fuck, it must suck to be you.

D&Dfinder
Hardmode: Anything PBtA

I hate Pathfinder, but not for any particular reason the game is decent. However, there is one aspect of the game that I feel makes it fundamentally flawed. More so the organizational play. The Pathfinder Society.

I have had many dealings with them in my area, both professionally and also as a player. Either they select the most insane OCD people to host games in their name or they honestly have no fucking clue how to make games fun and less robotic.

>being this mad
>not even listing any of the problems that make you so mad other than IT'S A BAD GAME

>better than you'll allow yourself to admit it is
I played that shit nonstop for years because it's all I could find in my area and no sir, I do not like it.

I do not like its reliance on arcane rules to govern everything. Things like attacks of opportunity, CMB/CMD, action economy, Vancian casting, bonus discretion, etc are so overwrought for no reason, and these are core fuctions of the game. All it does is create autistic arguments about 500 pages on how to play make believe.

I do not like its reliance on tons of stupid trap options scattered across what must now be at least one hundred books. Most of these options are pointless, and only serve to encourage dumb charop. It's just fellating stupid fags who netdeck in RPGs, wanking in the face of those who either A) can't be bothered or B) would rather make a character as opposed to a statblock - something I personally feel mechanically-focused options are anathema too (or at least I've never seen it pulled off).

I do not like its grid-reliant, slogging combat. The less said about that the better, but suffice to say I don't like passing my free time by spending hours listening to a couple retards whine about whether this bonus or that feat or this item interact in some specific way every turn for literal, actual hours. Imagine all the things you could do in that time that are actually fun.

I do not like its dumb kitchen sink setting that lazily lets you do anything you want in the hopes you'll drag out your PF campaign for years and buy years' worth of splatbooks. I would rather play smaller, more focused campaigns in smaller, more focused settings. I also don't like the obsession with mechanically optimized, superficially youneek one-dimensional characters - I will rip off your head and shit down your throat if you bring a quarter-goblin/half-kitsune/quarter-tiefling necro-alchemist (3) (dracomancer archetype) /gunmemer (cumdumpster archetype) (2) to my table.

That.. pretty well sums up Pathfinder, and 3.pf in general really. While I played 3e and 3.5 for a while when those were new, they were FAR worse than the old AD&D game that I used to play in as far as taking a millenia to actually make a SINGLE ROUND of combat actually pass, due to quintillions of rules that apply to any given scenario, from feats to magic items to spells to class features.. simply unplayable. The 'statblock' thing isn't unique to 3.pf, but it absolutely dwells at the very heart of all that 3.pf stands for.

And lest we forget the fucking obnoxious community surrounding a fucking obnoxious company. I haven't seen such willing shiteaters anywhere else in tabletop gaming. Most communities can usually admit, "Yeah, it's not great but I still enjoy it." And that's fine. But pathfags? The merest insinuation that 3.PF isn't the apex of tabletop gaming has them in cold sweats: "W-what do you mean Pathfinder isn't perfect? I didn't spend hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours on these books for nothing! It's perfect and I made the best decision because I'm smart! It was a good investment because I can play Pathfinder forever!"

And Paizo itself, how scummy do you have to be to pump out these shitty little books once a month MINIMUM? Not to mention all the shit like blind boxes of shitty plastic miniatures or having TWO cuckscammers for your fucking quixotic MMO that crashed and burned before it even launched (but not before you took over a million dollars). Speaking of PFO, imagine being such a fucking retard that you look at Ryan Dancey's moderation policy (in a nut shell: "We won't tell you what the rules are and while we will not enforce them consistently, the punishments we do mete out will be very severe in the hopes that this will cultivate an atmosphere of constant suspicion and people will be too scared to put a toe out of line.") and immediately derail the thread by calling anyone disagreeing with him an out-and-out pedophile. Imagine being that fucking dumb; that is what it's like to be a pathfag.

Now there's an entire generation of gamers indoctrinated into thinking this is the norm, this is what RPGs are: insane competitions to see who can bend the 500+ pages of rules in the most laborious way possible without breaking themselves. This idea that RPGs are about spending hours arguing over dumb bullshit for no other reason than to tally up imaginary loot from imaginary monsters with more detail put into their combat "tactics" than anything else. Fuck!

Exalted

Oh I used to love that damn game, the world setting, the mechanics, till one particular GM ran it, and just fucking killed the game for me.

>Playing infernal
>Gm plays them straight
>Sidereal bullshit constantly
>Half castes and fucking Dragon Kings wreaking our shit because he wanks them
>Everything including canon fodder DB's have a 20 defense value.

It's like, Why did I even try to enjoy the game at this point.

The deal with Fate is that it requires a completely different approach than other RPGs. Instead of just playing "your character" or whatever, Fate relies on everyone telling the story and working together to get a compelling story, rather than each player just reacting to whatever the GM throws. Think of it like a movie, where everyone are directors and screenwriters as well as actors.

It's okay to not like it, precisely because it requires a different approach.

Fate should be seen as excelling in either of these; it should be seen as excelling as a toolkit for making narrative based games, something neither Risus, Wushu, or Fiasco can do as well because it provides mechanics for narrative (Aspects).

Shadowrun, in general, though I've only looked at 4th and 5th edition. I like the lore a lot, but the system is a clunky, unplayable mess.

It's bad to the point where I'm going to eventually use GURPS (which is nowhere as slow or hard as people say it is, and I've only recently started playing it) to run Shadowrun.

Also: Eclipse Phase. For the same reasons, kind of. The whole thing of being able to switch bodies whenever you want, getting killed is okay (but you gotta retrieve the cortical stack or you'll lose your memories), all that transhumanism is super cool. The system is absolute ass, though.

Come on, OSR games are fun for a while. They're a different style of game, though, more like a board game than a true roleplaying game. Fun for a few short adventures where PCs die fairly often, keeping danger high.

Vampire The Masquerade
It's just humans with some superpowers who can't do shit because of some stupid rule. What's the point of being a vampire then?

>But pathfags? The merest insinuation that 3.PF isn't the apex of tabletop gaming has them in cold sweats: "W-what do you mean Pathfinder isn't perfect? I didn't spend hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours on these books for nothing! It's perfect and I made the best decision because I'm smart! It was a good investment because I can play Pathfinder forever!"

Have you tried looking at /pfg/?

The difference is that /pfg/ is not retarded. Most of them have either played the game and ran into issues with 3.0/3.5/PF and have zero reason to suck PF's cock blindly... or they know people who have, sometimes both, like me.

This fucker over here is a whole
'nother story though and it's become impossible to have a 3.5 thread without him shitting it up, especially if it's discussing its flaws.

>Now there's an entire generation of gamers indoctrinated into thinking this is the norm, this is what RPGs are: insane competitions to see who can bend the 500+ pages of rules in the most laborious way possible without breaking themselves. This idea that RPGs are about spending hours arguing over dumb bullshit for no other reason than to tally up imaginary loot from imaginary monsters with more detail put into their combat "tactics" than anything else.

This is literally the worst part of PF. I don't care what others do with their time and money, but a sizable amount of people will be introduced to RPGs through PF/DnD.

RPGs are already a niche hobby, and they're butchering the population further.

>a millenia
Millenium

I can't really choose one out of the unholy trifecta of VtM, MAGUS and 3rd.

Even some 20 years after release, they keep dominating the local scene because of popularity and availability, despite being fucking terrible games.

Well NMI, just like sucking a single cock makes you a cocksucker, all it takes is committing a single felony to become a felon. So Kevvy stealing his 1.4 million certainly makes him a bit felonious. It is a shame that Rogue an Heroes' gRifts Boardgame got shut down by the trolling.

We don't talk about Champions, man...

>Vampire: The Masquerade
>everyone I ever met who plays this is not just a weirdo but a huge douche

It's probably my favorite setting, but sadly, you are like 100% right.

Demon: The Descent. I hate many, many things about CofD (including most of its gamelines) but the God Machine takes the cake and Demon is intrinsically tied to it. It's just so poorly defined and barely explained for "muh mystery" that it's practically impossible to fit into a story; the whole thing just reeks of being a contrived excuse for crossover games and justification to make another game for the setting.

I wouldn't say "hate", but I really don't get the love for anything "Powered by the Apocalypse".
"Moves" seem like a useful tool for newbies who've never played a real RPG before, and maybe for that nervous guy whose brain freezes over when it's time to decide what his character should do , but otherwise I feel that they're just a crutch for unimaginative players.

Anything "diceless", especially those systems that use PLAYING CARDS for Chris' sake. Yeesh.

I never could stand the old system for TORG by West End Games.

1E or 2E (Unisystem)?

You, got that kinda backwards.

Moves aren't done intentionally. Moves are triggered by what the character does. So they can't really work as a "crutch". You can't really say "I'll use my hack and slash!"; that's not how the game works.