So a lot of potential issues have been pointed out with the new edition. But I've always believed in the mantra of "Don't give me problems, give me solutions".
So instead of just complaining, what changes would you make to 8th ed to make it better? What do you think should be changed/kept/removed/brought back and how would you make it work?
>"Don't give me problems, give me solutions".
Sell everything 40k, if you ride the hype wave right, you should be able to make your money back and cut even. Put thus acquired money into a better game.
Potential issues:
Flyers sniping characters.
Transports leaving their passengers behind as they charge into combat.
Flamers being the ultimate anti-air weapon.
Vehicles being just as tough in the front as the rear.
Anybody think of any other issues pointed out so far?
The rules for shooting flyers are absolutely stupid. They need to at the very least further reduce bs vs flyers.
>No first turn charges
>Units can't simply walk away from a combat.
>Morale works like before, caveat of far less fearless across the board and atsknf works like in 30k. Just let's you regroup at anytime. Maybe a reroll too.
> Penetrating vehicles works like before.
>Templates back
>Units need to roll to move through cover as before
>Units removed from the front as before, caveat that wounded models need to be removed first in multi wound units.
>Entire unit doesn't need to be in cover to get benefits
>Deployment is chosen randomly as before ( it's absurd you have to place objectives and then your opponent can pick what deployment you play )
>Units obviously disembark after their transport moves.
All I can think of for now. God 8E is a mess though , basically just cluster fuck mobs of infantry running into eachother and dice/ who has the bestest rules decides what wins. I'm glad I've got a core group of 30k players to game with.
While I hate flyers I agree it's absurd they can now be flame throwered to death. They're basically just skimmers again now. I like that jump troops can assault them though.
>Oh yeah bring back weapon skill values so exarchs /bloodthirsters aren't as likely to be hit in combat as a grot.
>Bring back intiative values.
Just play 7th then
Most stores won't allow you to play older rules/games.
Good plan! That's what I'm going to do anyway. 8E is trash, but those are my suggestions for at least polishing the turd.
Lucky I'd never want to play in a games workshop anyway. Literally a hive of autism. ( Granted my local.manager is actually one of the few cool guys who wouldn't care )
I just play in the same shop I play magic in, they have 2 sections, it's pretty chill.
Maybe 8th isn't for you. It seems like a game for laid back people to have fun.
i only dislike one thing so far: lack of facing for vehicles. it could be easily fixed by giving -1 to saving throws from the side and -2 from the rear. sth like that.
I don't understand how any of these are actual mechanical problems.
Are people complaining about problems because they just don't like it or is it because it doesn't work?
Until every vehicle gets mounted on a rectangle base, never.
we had facings before, it worked.
Well haven't play yet so I'm not going to affirm anything.
I would say that my main fear is that everything just move too fucking fast.
Noooo, it did not.
Just look at Eldar vehicles.
Do tell me where exactly does the front, back and sides begin.
Or the Doomscythe even.
People just had really fucking low standard for rules if they played 40k and most definitely did not play other games and didn't even know how stupid the rules have gotten.
Until 40k goes the way of fantasy battle where things are measured from bases and are clearly defined by base's shape, facing is a rule that should never come back.
>Do tell me where exactly does the front, back and sides begin.
your imagination is so limited that you can't visualize a bounding box around them?
i think wargaming might not be for you
I think the core rules are (Mostly) good, most of my issues are with particular units that could do with a fixing.
I should not imagine to play the game. 40k isn't an RPG. Rules should clearly define where things must be measured from. Rules exist to prevent ambiguity, not cause it.
No, shit rules are not for me.
>he doesn't understand the new rules
I think you forgot that Veeky Forums is horrible at 40k
Well easy solution, kill yourself pedshit trash
They're retards who are sperging out about rules they don't understand. So business as usual for both 40k and Veeky Forums in general
So which parts of 8e do you actually like?
Switch to 30k
>this
8th ed is fucking awesome and all yall can go away and let me have my fun.
I don't think he knows any of the rules of 8th edition well enough to know what he would like, let alone accurately describe what he doesn't like.
Different user but I don't think it's that for most players, it's just that the box may be differently sized for different imaginations, and that often caused a point of contention, luckily eldar would have the same armor value on the side or front, but things like the battle wagon model, I've never seen as many verbal scuffles about facings as I have for that one model
I would reduce the point cost on riptides as my first order of business. Then restore marker lights to 7th edition.
Can't wait to hear you retards bitching at the LGS as you gaze forlornly at your rebalanced animu shit
Most Taucucks won't even make it to the lgs, they seem to be selling their armies on mass
Also what the fuck is this thread
>Hurr let's change the rules for an edition no one has played more than a game off and isn't even fully out yet!
>I should not imagine to play the game.
PLEASE neck yourself
Not in the rulebook.
This is why exclusive 40k players should not make any rules suggestions. They don't even know what's possible in the ruleset
explain to me why imagination is such an important game mechanic, rule so important that no miniature game has rules on.
Exploding vehicles hurt anyone around but not the squad inside. That is fucking stupid. I assume it's just a typo that's going to be errata'd but what the actual fuck?
Wow, you're a fucking moron. Get out of 40k please.
Make large blast 2 + 1d6, and small blast 1d6. Or make it so that for every five models in the unit, you add 1 to the number of attacks.
Because you EXplode, not IMplode
:^)
cry about it dipshit
If a unit is inside a vehicle, roll a 1d6 for each model. On a 1 it dies. Seems pretty deadly to me.
>Explodes: If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes and each unit within 6" suffers one mortal wound.
>Before any embarked models disembark
If they haven't disembarked they are not on the battlefield and are therefore not within six inches of the vehicle. They're just sort of hanging out in the nebulous "embarked in transport" dimension.
Buff eldar
Wtf why they nerf
Mortal wounds are handed out way too liberally.
Wow, you're a fucking moron. Get out of 40k please.
As blob gard I love the fact that there is no way for the enemy to kill me quickly, and that I have most of the few weapons actually capable of killing hordes effectively. Just doesn't seem very sporting.
Explain how I'm wrong then.
No they aren't.
yeah, then they disembark and suffer the d6 per model thing.
Are you honestly bitching that you don't roll twice for models inside? wasting more time with unnecessary rolls?
If you are embarked on a vehicle, and it explodes, you roll for each midel. It is entirely separate from the D3 mortal wounds to nearby units.
Shut the fuck up you stupid piece of shit
You know, this thread is kinda making me understand why GW was so proud about not doing market research.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Because morons never read and understand rules before they start bitching about them? Yeah. That's why GW was pretty explicit about how they've done a ton of TESTING on the new rules, not a ton of asking morons what to do
>Flyer transports being over 3" off the ground
>If you can't place a model within 3" it is slain
This one's easy, use the base. Why it's not already in the rul-Wait, it's GW.
We always just used a ruler to X across funny shaped vehicles. The top panel on serpents/falcons/fireprisms has easily identified corners to connect off of.
Doom scythe are a little tricky but that's why you establish the points for angles before game.
And now you'll never have to waste time doing that ever again
>Flyers sniping characters
How? They can't move within 1" of enemies, so the only way this will happen is if the character is the closest model, which means either they are the first in line of fire, which makes sense, or you've killed their chaff, which makes sense.
>Transports leaving passengers behind
What? What awful assault strategies are you using? First drive assault up close to enemy, but outside of 1". On their turn, they flee 6", maybe a bit further due to advance. On your next turn, disembark assault and march them and vehicle up to flee unit. Vehicle will definitely end within a couple inches, assault unit shouldn't be further than 3" or so depending on enemy Advance. This is a very easy charge to make.
>Flamers being the ultimate anti-air weapon
What? How? Sure, they get auto-hits, but the low S, D and AP means they'll be pretty awful at causing sizable damage. Use actual anti-vehicle stuff if you want to down flyers.
>Vehicles being just as tough in the front as on the sides
You mean like real military vehicles? What a shocker.
All of my complaints basically boil down to smaller balance tweaks and wanting stuff like chapter rules and relics back.
There's just some units and guns that don't feel right or strong enough, and they should be better even if it takes a point hike
Don't bother, morons gonna moron.
>15 seconds when the rare occasion of not easily knowing facing comes up
>waste of time
I'd rather keep some kind of semblance of fun and tactics with vehicles thanks.
Bring back Initiative, Weapon Skill charts and Vehicle Facings and I'm happy.
By all means have a caveat that gives units that charge a bonus to Initiative, and change Facings to match the new Toughness-Wound style of Vehicles, but the Weapon Skill thing has no reason for existing, Grots shouldn't be just as likely to hit Lucius the Eternal as they would a Guardsmen.
>ITS NOT FUN AND TACTICAL IF I CAN'T ARGUE ABOUT FACING ON THREE OUT OF THIRTY TYPES OF VEHICLES
You are a stupid piece of garbage, kill yourself
No, those rules were terrible and it's good that they are gone. Cry about it loser.
I mean, the easy answer would be to only have rules for 'front' and 'rear' for vehicles, and then declaring each of those as the respective half of the model if you measured it from tip to end.
Straightforward
and I'm just saying that level of negotiations for a game is unacceptable. Having to negotiate to identify features of an object means that it's poorly defined and has no place in a ruleset.
Honestly, I would prefer all vehicles to come with bases for precise measurements, none of this garbage measure from weapons themselves bollocks, but baby steps.
>wasting 15 seconds isn't wasting 15 seconds guys
Fucking hell.
Half the shit isn't even pointed correctly, someone did the maths on the Hive Tyrant weapons and the free ones are statistically the best.
>I heard someone who is as retarded as I am saying something, it must be true none of the point values are correct
King of the game tables over here boys
>like real military vehicles?
The front glacis on most MBTs is thicker than the sides friend. Turrets are relatively uniform however.
>what are friends?
Even there is a chance for ambiguity unless it's defined where it must begin and must end.
Can an ork player extend the area where only his front parts are exposed to the enemy while getting closer by adding a deffroller?
Vehicles with bases would be the most unambiguous thing if people want facings so damn much.
40k is casual dice rolling exercise game so it doesn't matter and simplicity is good for making it a casual dice rolling exercise game.
>argue
I've played since the beginning of 4th and have never had to argue with any one. When the question came up we would just measure it real quick and move on. Never was a big deal.
Having defined bases for vehicles would be fine. I would have no problem with it. I do a lot of tanking and I just enjoy the need to be careful of my positioning and watching my flanks. It adds a bit of delta I like and feel the game is a little more bland for its loss.
>15 seconds isn't time
That wasn't what I was trying to imply. I was simply saying that 15 seconds is inconsequential to me when it only pops up 1 out of 10 games I play.
To each their own I'm not trying to tell you you are wrong.
>Flyers sniping characters
When you have a flying vehicles that can move 3 feet a turn, positioning your characters safely can be difficult. I played a game just two hours ago- my Corvus blackstar killed both my opponent's HQs by flying in such a way that his characters were closest and then shooting the fuck out of them.
>Real military vehicles
Facing is very much an issue for real military vehicles, user.
That said I like what I've played so far. I do agree that flyers are absolutely hellish to deal with now that facings don't matter and they have 360 arcs of fire. My corvus was absolutely worth the points I paid for it.
>my opponent is a retard and let me fly my flying vehicles directly on top of his HQ units and didn't shoot my vehicles down, better change the rules
my apologies if I sounded more pissed off than I needed to be.
I'm just pissed off by idiots like who think making shit up is somehow part of the rules and if not, should be made as a rule.
cry more dummy
>first turn charges are bad, shooting is ok though
>units having to roll to love through cover introducing even more fucking randomness
>bringing back the awful wounds from front mechanic that was hell to work out and horribly punished assault armies
Sounds to me like you just have shit taste.
Why wouldn't you just bubble wrap your character all the way around? If you intentionally leave your character at the edge of the blob, you're asking for an attack up the rear, by flying or deep strike.
Go play 7th you fuck
He posted the statistics you fucking mongoloid.
Now maybe stop sucking GW's cock for five minutes and accept 8th edition has some problems.
>8e is trash
>7E is better
You cant be serious
>calls others dumb
>when wanting 7th ed shit back
ok, fag, where is your ebay listing? I'll give you money to quit the hobby.
I guarantee that if this scenario actually took place (it didn't) the guy was ignoring the minimum movement of his flyer or something equally stupid
I understand. I'm just used to having to fudge things to some degree in everything I play if there isn't a cut and dry option so it has never bothered me. But I also don't regularly play tournament style scenes where people start chucking dice and having a spergfest everytime something doesn't go their way. I tend to avoid that shit like the plague now so "iffy" situations are pretty easily resolved even it just goes to a coin flip.
I've just never been a "hard rules" guy and prefer a little more depth and tactics even if it can get funny rules wise.
>depth and tactics
>I can see your vehicle from the side so it has different numbers now
pick one
Initiative was a good rule, it made sure faster units hit first, which made sense. Now we have some units hitting first when they charge and some units like Daemons of Slaanesh and other similar high initiative units occasionally breaking the new borked "activate units" rule to hit first.
Vehicle facings added a depth of strategy to fielding vehicles, now there's no reason to move around behind a vehicle in order to get damage in, make the facings save modifiers but don't get rid of them.
Explain why a Space Marine with a knife should get 3+ to hit in combat with models like Lucius the Eternal, a master swordsman, or similar models like Greater Daemons, you braindead trog.
>watching position to not expose weak points to enemy
>needing to use terrain and overlapping postioning to cover angles
>manouvering to bring fire arcs to bare on enemy positions as he tries to avoid them
>flanking to take enemy vehicles out using weapons they would be immune to from the front glacis
>not tactics or depth
Reducto ad absurdum can apply to make everything seem retarded
>tanks that can withstand oceanic pressure and orbital weaponry
>vulnerable to smallarms fire from every angle
Pick one
See
Nope, you're an idiot and can't admit that you're wrong. This is why the hobby is purging you.
Faster units do hit first now though.
you move around vehicles to deny cover
Grunt gets 3+ with the knife because that's his above average skill. Lucius and Bloodthirster will still win that fight since their stats are far superior.
I just feel weird charging genestealers with IG and getting all of my attacks in before they can react.
Like somehow they didn't see me running at them from the front over open ground.
this
well, since so many chucklefucks want facing for vehicles, I propose a different "solution"
facing for everything.
Now the game is still homogenized and tactical depth that's being buzz worded around can be applied to everything. Tactical depth for all
I'm sure Ork, Nids, and Guard players won't mind arguing with you over every infantry saves and wounds as you try to circlestrafe like a DOOMmarine.
Facings for all!
Aggressor gets in the first hit, dry your tears or fuck off
NO WAY DUDE DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT ALL INFANTRY ARMOR IS EXACTLY THE SAME STRENGTH FROM ALL ANGLES
well, if they let you charge them, they obviously didn't. battlefield, like love, can be confusing and distracting.
This definitely took place. I was not ignoring the minimum movement of my flyer, which was 20''. At one point I did go into hover mode, which allowed me to ignore that. My opponent was playing very low model count admech, so it was difficult for him to bubblewrap. He also could not really do anything about my 14 wound, t7, 3+ flyer because his shit was hitting and wounding on 5's most of the time. He will certainly bring different shit next time, and play differently.
Again, I am not the user that is calling for the rules to be changed. I had a lot fun playing today, and the entire group did as well. I'm merely stating that flyers can and do snipe out characters.
> People going to this length to defend a company that would squat their game as soon as it isn't selling a million units a year.
Or maybe we just be big boys and realise that GW seems to be incapable of doing something every other game can do? Maybe they're lazy or maybe the just don't care.
>pedoshit WAAC weeb tau player refuses to his imagination
Color me surprised.
No you're an idiot, do you actually have reasons these were bad rules or are you just resorting to ad hominem because you never learned how to have reasonable discussion in your formative years?
I never said i was quitting because of this, everything else about 8e is fine by me, these 3 are 3 minor things that are downgrades rather than improvements on the system.
No, no they don't. Units that charged this turn hit first, then you take turns activating combats starting with the person whose turn it is. The exception is units with Abilities that let them hit first, but if the enemy charged, they cancel each other out. This means if one squad of IG charge a unit of Daemonettes and that's the only charge that happened this turn, those IG hit first because the turn player activates their combat.
You move around anyone to deny cover.
Why is it just as easy to hit a grot as it is to hit a combat specialist? Your grunt shouldn't be hitting warbosses as easily as they hit grots.
>thread is about proposing fixes to problems in 8e
>"8E IS PERFECT DRY YOUR TEARS LOSERS OR FUCK OFF REEEEE"
you have autism