Creatures that are sexually dimorphic are typically polygamists...

I know this is hard to understand for you sometimes user, but your subjective opinion is not objective truth about the state of reality, or in this case fictional universes created for the purpose of playing games of make believe.

>Do your elfs and dwarves have sexual differences?
Other than what's common for humans, which they took from human cultures other than common gender roles, no.

Basically dwarf dudes and dudettes are free to do whatever they want, but when it comes down to it, dwarf ladies look after children. Usually though, they just get someone else more willing to do it if they don't want to.

Elves are a bunch of damn dirty hippies.

Actually speaking as a student of anthropology your actually wrong. It's a common misconception made my members of western societies, but our social model is not actually normal. We are what are considered by anthropologists to be W.E.I.R.D. (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic) cultures. Because we live in these cultures we have a natural tendency to view the world through the lens of our cultural experiences and assume ours is normal, but this is not necessarily the case.

Take monogamy and polygamy. We assume that monogamy is the norm, because it is our cultural ideal. It is not, There are actually far more cultures that practice polygamy than monogamy, this just isn't necessarily apparent because the monogamous cultures (IE European cultures) have become widespread and exerted global influence. Polygamy remains a common practice in large portions of South America, and Africa, and some places in Asia.

Even monogamous cultures tend to practice what is referred to as serial monogamy, rather than true monogamy, where they routinely switch partners but are more or less faithful to the partner they are with at the time

tl;dr humans usually do actually, Europeans fight the tendency and don't.

Why are lions just so damn cool? I mean, look at them and soak up the awesome.

Also with the races I run polygamy or monogamy is entirely dependent on culture as opposed to race. Though, I run orcs as a manufactured race with controlled breeding.

>There are actually far more cultures that practice polygamy than monogamy

Europe: .7 billion
India: 1.3 billion
China: 1.4 billion
N America, Indonesia: .35 billion each
South America: .4 billion

That's over half the world right there, so even assuming EVERY culture in Africa, the middle east, southeast Asia, Russia, Australia, etc. was polygamous - which isn't remotely the case - the overwhelming balance of the world is monogamous.

Just because there may be a million little tribes in Paupau New Guinea, each with their own language, living with multiple wives in their loincloths and grass huts, does not mean polygamy is some great civilizational trend the west is too stupid to understand. And just because something is "exotic" or "foreign" to your eyes does not automatically make it superior to what you grew up with.

All I got form your post is
>Western models for society is pretty much way better than other societal models with the evidence being the global hegemony they have exerted.

You're a shitty student.

Well not entirely
You see even though biologically humans are more suited to polygamy, we really can't pull it off due to two things
> there are about the same amount of males then females. Lions kill other baby males to allow more females per males
> humans are intelligent and tend to be protective, we also have things like emotions

Counting the number of independently developed cultures is more relevant than how many people are in each culture.

Also, Indonesia is polygamist, so I'm not sure why you counted them for the monogamous.

How exactly is having a body that takes 12-18 years to mature "suited to polygamy"

The reported rate of infidelity here in the states sits at about 70% measured with a pretty large n=.

Calling us westerners monogamous might overstep the stats.

No it's not. Polygamy is legal in Indonesia and a man may take up to four wives, as allowed by Islam. Despite such legality, polygamy has faced some of the most intense opposition than any other nation with the majority consisting of Muslims. Additionally, Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world, but it's far from ''natural polygamist'' as you claim it to be.

because children can give consent

> Polygamy is legal in Indonesia, blah blah blah.

Yeah, blah blah is a petty good refutation of user's points, user. No need to dig up any pesky facts or arguments or anything.

>this nigga never never heard of titties

This thread/argument is shit because natural/unnatural arguments about humans are weird. You could simply make the argument that as a civilization advances naturally humans gravitate towards monogamy since it keeps society the most stable. In other words an advanced society would realize that unchecked monogamy can lead to revolts.

>Unchecked monogamy
Gosh I meant polygamy

I was as specific as the Wikipedia article they copied required me to be.

I never said monogamy is bad for society if anything it's best, however biologically you want to pass on your genes as much as possible and for humans polygamy is the best way for doing that

You make two grave mistakes.

Firstly, the actual number of civilizations if completely irrelevant, since the vast majority of people both dead and living have lived their lives monogamously. Just because there are a million, tiny, irrelevant societies that practice polygamy, does not mean that polygamy is the norm. They may be purely quantitively the majority, but that is completely irrelevant and is not merely a qualitative mistake, but a pretty bad statistic trick.

Second of all, even in most big, relevant civilizaitons, only the upper class had even the possibility of living polygamously, and yet in most middle eastern and indian and norse cultures, not even all of them did, and less and less did with increasing progression. The further a civilization advances, the more polygamy becomes something seen as abnormal and a mere privilege of a ruler. The chinese emperors had massive harmes, and so did the ottomans, but though technically allowed for everybody else in the realm, the number of people that did even amongst the elite is absolutely neligible. So yes, sure, you can boost your percentage of "polygamous" societies by counting those, but realistically, qualitatively, they really really aren't.

The reason for the moderate human sexual dimorphism lays in the earliest of early pre-human history of nomadic hunters and gatherers, where one male with many females was the norm. But this is even from before these pre-humans evolved into humans, before our normal social groups expanded to about ~150 people as the maximum group size.

So, this means that our sexual dimorphism isn't even because humans per se where largely polygamous, but because our ancestors were and there has not been sufficient evolutionary pressure or progress to change away from this. Even the earliest of hunter gatherer cultures where not purely or largely polygamous.

My suspicion is our ancestors were, based partly on the abnormally large human penis compared to other primates, a bunch of rapists.

That's a shit argument because the assumption you base it on isn't even true. You don't want to spread your genes as much as possible you god damn imbecile. Not every species is like fucking frogs. You want to pick a strategy that guarantees the best LASTING spread of your genes. Female Orcas and female humans alike loose their ability to reproduce at some point because their species takes forever to mature and has a low count of offspring, so if you die before your child reaches maturety it will perish, but if instead you concentrate your energy on helping your existing offspring survive, reproduce and helping your second generation offspring towards maturety, you have a bigger chance of your distributed genome to survive, making it the better reproductive strategy.

That might explain the prevalence of rape as a fetish.

>where one male with many females was the norm
Does ancient matriarchal society count as polygamist though?

First off, that is why I stated that polygamy is the best biological pathway for humans.
Monogamy is when you focus on one mate and that mates children. It's a focused strategy.

Sleeping around is the least likely to help you out. You produce lots of children and those children are likely to die out or be aborted.

Polygamy allows you to produce lots of children, and also allows you to care after your children and mates, allowing you to make lots of well adapted and survivable children

Monogamy is in no ways a bad strategy but not the best biologically, however it is the best for society

Splitting resources among multiple offspring is less likely to produce well adapted survivable children.

I know right? Human women are just as physically strong at human men after all.

>Monogamy is when you focus on one mate and that mates children. It's a focused strategy.
>Polygamy allows you to produce lots of children
By your own logic polygamy is a bad strategy.

On top of that most females in human harems never had children. They were often status symbols, used as servants or pawns in political games by their noble families.

Gotta love all the bullshit people are pulling out of their asses for this thread. Never change Veeky Forums, you retarded manchildren who will argue for days about subjects you know nothing about, never change.

Not at all what I was talking about, the fact that humans are very co dependant to their parents for at least 13-15 years greatly inhibits our ability to be polygamist.

How the fuck do you figure?

All male elves have tiny micropenises that never get hard and can cum only from prostate stimulation. However, females can fuck just about anything and it will still result in a pureblooded elf.

The only way an elf can be conceived is when male cums from getting pounded in the ass and then rubs semen into female's vagina.

However, years of selective breeding has led male elves to be able to ejaculate only from prolonged pounding while watching their female counterparts fucked. So, many elves can go years without a release, as they are genetically predisposed to be straight (a cruel joke of nature). Explains why they are so stuck-up now.

My elf accidentally ended up polygamous, or at least polyamorous, between the sheer amount of pussy the GM was throwing at him and him not being the kind of guy to say "I understand that you all want romance from me, but I'm going to shunt you aside in favor of this other chick that asked first".

As far as dimorphism, female dorfs haven't come up yet and I personally assume they're some sort of asexual race that sort of just arises from stone a la Steven Universe Kindergardens but as the sole elven player in the game, and thus the utmost authority on how the fuck these homebrew elves work, they have similar dimorphisms as humans, but more subtle. For example, female elves still have a good bit of extra hip to them, but their breasts are typically fairly smaller on average. Other attributes have been decided over a bit of an OOC joke that due to their universally slender frames and pretty selves, non-elves have trouble distinguishing the minor differences between males and females even when underclothed, or between family members. My character is a whole inch taller, has the smaller male hips, and their hair doesn't grow quite as long as their mother's, but is otherwise identical to her in every way past voice, mannerisms, and parts.

Gas the Chad's, beta uprising now!

>So creatures such as humans...tend towards harems
Depends on culture.

>ancient matriarchal

Literal meme.

I think it counts as mythical

Why do humans smile and show their teeth for laughing, sympathy, and other emphatic interactions? That his is terrifying to most animals. It says: "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!"

>americans
>human

>You don't want to spread your genes as much as possible you god damn imbecile. Not every species is like fucking frogs. You want to pick a strategy that guarantees the best LASTING spread of your genes.
They are not incompatible, nothing stop you from making as many babies as possible and then focus your energy on what you judge the best children.
Letting babies die, while cruel from human standard, is normal in nature.

Apes do it too...

>what is the Venus of Willendorf

>>what is the Venus of Willendorf
a carving?

>Creatures that are sexually dimorphic are typically polygamists, creatures that lack sexual dimorphism are typically monogamists.
false premise

The only thing I gathered here is: I have a shitty leftist education.

Doesn't every culture think that their culture is the norm and that others are weird? You're acting like Western civilization is somehow uniquely self centered.

>Cool right?
No. You're trying to come up with an excuse to be cheating scum. Why do you need to convince others?

>Lions kill other baby males to allow more females per males
Lions don't kill THEIR young, they kill other males cubs so that they get to breed with lionesses sooner. Also first time i see anyone imply that they bang their own daughters and (spoiler)wanna hear more(/spoiler).

Fvcking brackets.

Might work if you run full gatherers dependent economy with maybe some hunting on side. Once you shift to method that puts males too high in hierarchy it falls apart.

Of fertility goddess. Not every woman is capable of birthing and nursing 6+ children.

a fertility goddess does not mean a society is matriarchal, unless you would argue the Mesopotamians and the Greeks were matriarchal?

>Do your elfs and dwarves have sexual differences?

Our male elves have an animal like sheath for their dicks. The elf women's vagina is more circular.

For dwarves, they lack visible genitals and just have "the waste fountain" and females have the extra birthing chute that seals itself when not in use. Their fluid exchange happens mouth to mouth, ie deep kissing.

Orcs are oddly exactly like humans except their females have 4 nipples (though only two breasts).

>dwarves
Since swarves usually live in mountains it makes sense that they practice fraternal polyandry, where a single women is married to 2 or more brothers.

>Of fertility goddess
Or more likely of fire keeping old woman.
So more Westa of Willendorf.

I like to stack elves in that heavy armor for the fun of it.

Still make it gaudy and flamboyant enough to still look seemingly elvish, but still intimidating.

>the waste fountain

Just when I thought dwarves couldn't dig any lower, they hit the septic tank

>polygamy is legal in indonesia
>but some people don't like it!
>this means Indonesia isn't polygamist

user...

>My suspicion is our ancestors were, based partly on the abnormally large human penis compared to other primates, a bunch of rapists.

You are correct, and the human penis and speed at which we orgasm, is evidence of this. As well as our lack of a penis bone.

Yeah, I listened to that public radio broadcast too. It was interesting.

>Gotta love all the bullshit people are pulling out of their asses for this thread. Never change Veeky Forums, you retarded manchildren who will argue for days about subjects you know nothing about, never change.
It's decent bait, though. It's only a short step from
>remember guys, most dudes are pounding 3-4 pussies at once
to
>tfw no gf

OP knows what he's doing.

Ok so world building idea. I know in real life that matriarchies didn't not real. But, for a setting

What if you had a Matriarchy where the ruling class were actual MATRONS, not 'WOMEN'. Like, women who had produced multiple children and had possibly passed child bearing age already.

Build on the foundations of mystic bullshit about the sacred feminine and motherly wisdom, combined with the supposedly inherent wisdom of the older and more experienced. In order to be eligible for high ranking social posistions you need to be a woman age 40 or higher, and have birthed at least 2 or 3 kids (more always being better).

Young women and those who have not yet hit their baby quota are juniors and considered for all intents and purposes, just regular citizens.

So men still dominate military and business, women are still basically for breeding and home tending, and the middle aged and older form the upper half of the social caste filling out managerial and governmental roles.

What would that be? A Methusalarchy with feminist leanings?

>Their fluid exchange happens mouth to mouth, ie deep kissing

No wonder they think humans and elves are so degenerate, they go around face fucking constantly.

I like that your magic realm is perverse and bizzare enough to pass off as just weird enough to not be magical realm

Well, yes. Remember that most animals are invertebrates, for starters; I can't think of any spiders that would qualify as either polygamous or monogamous, but they have some serious sexual dimorphism going on. What you're talking about is a tetrapod thing.

>the monogamous cultures (IE European cultures) have become widespread and exerted global influence.

>tl;dr humans usually do actually
If you wanted to say that human cultures, assuming that they arise in some vaguely independent way, wind up being polygamous more often than they do monogamous, you might be right, for the conditions which characterized the last ten thousand years. If you meant to say that humans are normally polygamous *right now,* you would be wrong, because monogamous cultures presently dominate the globe in terms of power and numbers.

>polygamy is the best biological pathway for humans.
It's not, if it lost out to monogamy. There's no "but it's best for society" distinction here; evolution doesn't care.

I also think your information may be out of date (see attached).

Human harems are exceptions, not the rule

one of a kind figure made by a disgusting fetishist

Traditional European culture is SUPERIOR to others, because societies that practice monogamy are far, far more stable than ones that practice polygamy.
Polygamous societies result in a select few males acquiring all the females leaving a large group of males with ZERO prospects of reproduction and thus ZERO stake in the future of the society or it's preservation, which leads to fertile grounds for internal strife and revolution. Monogamous societies result in a state where MOST men have reasonable prospect at reproducing because roughly speaking, each man has an access to a female partner and thus can found a family, which ensures that they too have a stake in the society.

Sexual liberation of women is one of the reasons why west is in the decline, because we are rapidly descending towards a state where harems form around few powerful men, while the rest of the men are left with nothing.

>a tetrapod thing.
Even then it's not true. Most tetrapods are just polyamorous, including species with little to no sexual dimorphism like most rodents, pigeons, reptiles without noticeable dimorphism, hippos or ring-tailed lemurs

Also an anthropology student reporting in, you're full of shit. Polygamy may be accepted in the majority of cultures, but in almost all polygamous cultures the vast majority of people haven't actually engaged in polygamous marriage.

Humans just don't have the gender ratio for polygamous marriage to be widely practiced unless the majority of one gender didn't have partners.

There's a significant difference between 'the majority of human cultures accept polygamy, although the majority of people never practice it' and 'humans are a naturally polygamous species'.

user... you've recreated the starting culture of the protagonist for Horizon Zero Dawn. Though the women are still allowed within all areas of culture, even business and military (what little there is for the Nora considering they are isolationist).

Assuming of course that only the men are polyamorous.

t. sexually frustrated male

"Screeew yoou, men know when they are in charge!"

what if you dubbed over the audio with Fred telling it like it is and Wilma sounding like a whiny cunt?

Women in general, are more willing to share male partners between each other, than men are willing to share female partners.
Reason for that is simple: Women always know if the child is theirs, whereas men have no such certainty.

Not an argument.

They'd be ripping off All In The Family instead of The Honeymooners

It's cute that you think you wouldn't be incel if those darn girls weren't so mean. You'd still be alone even if society was like the idealized version if the 50s that existed only in your head. You're a genetic wasteland and you not breeding is the goal, not a problem.

Nice projection famalam, but I see nothing addressing the point I made.

I don't have to, retard.

You know, I was pretty sure that was the case, but I wasn't certain. (I'm an invertebrate guy.)

I think all should be half-determined by species and half by culture. All elves/orcs/whatever should have some traits that make them different from humans and shape their different societies.

Also natural instincts should be a determinant factor for culture (amongst other factors like geography).

Sex and gender are entirely different things in elves - sex works similar to humans, gender is assigned based on the time of birth (daytime/nighttime).

Sunborn elves are builders, hunters, tradesmen scholars, politicians, spellcasters, warriors. What passes for "male" professions in patriarchal human societies. Generally, things that require you to be outside the home, i.e. out in the sun.

Moonborn elves take care of children and the ill, prepare meals, grow food and medical herbs, produce art (namely music) and delve in trades such as knitting, which can be done at home.

>Because we live in these cultures we have a natural tendency to view the world through the lens of our cultural experiences and assume ours is normal, but this is not necessarily the case.

As a cultural anthropologist, gotta point out that EVERY culture views the world that way. Ethnocentrist world views are inherent to human existence.

You sound kind of desperate to find a man.

>"If this was still the 1950s, all those whores wouldn't be flocking around Chad, and I could finally get laid"
>"Muh degenerates

>all this salt
>no counterarguments in sight.

Why are human females so shit at dealing with being raped, then? I mean, I don't want to be a cunt about it but other animals clearly don't give as much of a shit.

>unchecked monogamy
Thanks, user.

Ehhh, have a (You) since you're doing good mate. Seriously, I find threads like this hilarious as shit, since it's salter then the dead sea in here. Fucking retards. Matriarchs exist, but matriarchal societies are fantasy.

Why would that make sense? Because one human mountain culture does it?

Try harder you sexually frustrated numpty.