Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

Agree

Dude. Chill your nuts. We've got bigger problems to sort first, or did you not notice the GIANT CHAOS GASH ACROSS THE SKY?

Meltaguns are not that important any more and assault squads exist for anti-infantry work anyway.

Agree. I am coming back to 40k for this new edition specifically because they gave up on so much dumb shit that had piled up over previous editions.

So If I'm not reading this incorrectly, Knight Commander Pask can give orders to Tank Commanders and even to himself.

Since he can order twice on his turn, he may do well with himself and a friendly tank commander, (ideally ordering himself and other if I'm not nuts).

Anyone else can confirm this reading?

I have yet to see any 7th apologists. Just people saying how nice 8th is. Some people are hitching that some things are gone, but we all know stuff will come back later.

Agree.
They could only rehash 3rd edition so many times before the rules bloat became unbearable. I genuinely like most of the changes to 8th edition, even some of the ones that had me saying wtf at first.

In the current fuckfest that is 7th edtion, who wins guys?? Say 2000 pts?

Disagree. I know I'm in the minority, though. I like complexity and moving parts and weird rules interactions. I loved making DnD 3.5 characters in the day, and I loved making 7e lists for the same reason.

orks, tbqh

I'm pondering squad sizes - is there any real point to running, say, a ten-man unit of Raptor over two five-man ones anymore?

100 PL list, battalion detachment

Captain
Terminator librarian

Tactical squad
Tactical squad
Guard infantry squad

Vanguard with jump packs
Contemptor dreadnought
Cataphractii terminators

Assault marines in a razorback

Predator
Predator
Vindicator

I figure the guard squad there is part of a garrison that the space marines are showing up to reinforce.

Are Warlocks and Farseers still as good as FLG says?

>Farsight's area buff of rerolls 1s applies EVERY phase if you're versing orks for ANY unit nearby

lol, bunch of different factions have anti-ork rules, but not much else hatred-equivalents

Da gitz wif da most dakka win

You gain more from IGOUGO melee but you're more vulnerable to losing more dudes from failed morale tests.

Is my points calculations for the Death Guard side of the new starter box accurate?

They're a new mechanic for 8e. You start with 3 of them and can get more by taking more restricted detachments. They give you rerolls, or auto-passing morale.

Fuck all y'all. I like the primaris marines (yes, even THOSE ones)

It's pretty nice, but at the same time all it really means is any squad next to Farsight gets the 1 Markerlight benefit against Orks with their shooting.

>primaris sets are already on ebay

I like them too, and I never liked marines before.

Had a couple of 8th ed games today. Pic related was a 1500pt game with my First Born Guard vs a wraith construct army.

It is funny how orks are heavily on the receiving end of Hatred.
It rerolls 1's in fighting and overwatch, applying to infantry, tanks, and battlesuits.

Sisters are my first/main army, and you really shouldn't underestimate the holy bolter. Take a squad of 15 with a storm bolter, heavy bolter, and combi-flamer, and you will see what a first turn AoF is like, especially with a nearby cannoness. You can either nuke a squad right away or blitz forward 12"(after normal move) and nuke a squad anyway. Failing that, MM or HB Retributers love rerolling 1s.

Immolators in my opinion should be back to the 3rd/4tg edition ways of BURNANATING because we can move 12+d6 inches and do 2d6 heavy flamer shots because fuck you.

How can I combine DV and DI Chaos side to make a cool Nurgle army?

I think the main wave of complaints came when the indexes were leaked. As much as the massive rule bloat was awful, people liked he flavour of their individual army and the options they had within it, and there is no denying that some of that has been lost. Whether we get it back with the codices is yet to be seen. I'm digging it anyway.

They look much better in person than in photos.

The artwork of them is worse when compared to other marines imo.

T.guy who started BA 1 week before 8th rumours and am hyped for primaris BA

Or how about the fact that

>Cawl is trying to revive traitor legions and lost 2nd legion
>Gully no longer trusts him
>Cawl has an A.I.
>Cawl is acting on his own
>Cawl is repeatably requesting to become Fabricator General of Mars
>Cawl consorts with Abominable Xenos Necrons
>Cawl has repeatably ignored orders
>Cawl hides technology and secrets from all

We must deal with the looming heresy within our borders before we crumble entirely.

Some cheaper armies are going to start tacking up on the command points. Orks can make a battalion fairly easily and still have points left over for another detachment's CP. I could definitely see myself coming to a game with 13 CP for rerolls.

Is still yet another advantage for horde armies that we haven't talked about yet? Or is it just evening things out since hordes tend to roll more dice and thus need more rerolls to mechanically break even?

How was it like to fight a Wraithknight in 8th? They seemed a bit toned down from what I am reading.

Where is the rule stopping me from using the auxiliary support detachment to mix factions?

Can I take a GK battalion detachment and supplement that with 3 tau auxiliary support detachments?

Easy, convert everything DV into Nurgle. Chosen become Plague Marines, Cultists become Poxwalkers, Helbrute stays a Helbrute, etc.

GW anti-fun rules
gonna have to leave the fun ALLIES army for open/narrative

Just got done playing a 2k game of 8th edition, ultramarines vs ad mech.
It was planetfall, which is the first time I've played that mission (because be honest, how often did you play that stuff in 7th), Ultramarine termies led by guilliman attacking skit mech.
Some highlights/notes on 8th
>deep striking termie lists are super viable now. The ability to charge out of deep strike is a huge advantage that makes them so much better, deathwing may win tournaments now, esspecially when paired with the unkillable beast that is the land raider.
>the changes to AP are definitely for the better, not that anyone really disagrees AFAIK. It has gone a long way to making 3+ and 2+ actually mean something, esspecially in cover.
>termies are dead 'ard killy. Putting out 20 bolter shots and then charging in with chainfists hitting first will obliterate most units
>melee over all is super viable now. It's no longer just a long slog hoping to have some guys left to attack by turn 2 or 3. Getting in is much easier (esspecially since rhinos and land raiders are quite durable), and you do a lot more damage when you get in
>fulgerites are killy for you ad mech players out there. They shit out mortal wounds and killed Bobby G before they got anhilated by thunderhammer termies. He got up next round, but still
>also, command points matter. The reroll to hit and go next in combat stratagem are super useful. I found myself forgetting them the first few games and that was a mistake, they can change the course of the game immensely. Can't wait to see how the codexes add to them

All in all, can't wait for 8th edition, first time in a long time the first company has laid low foul heretics and not been tabled in a turn or two.

Agree, definitely agree. Melee was fucked, morale was useless, vehicles were never going to be good without major overhaul and the game was way too bloated. GW did real good by changing it from the ground up, 8th might be the funnest wargame they've made.

>tfw been playing orks since first got into game
>tfw literally left the hobby for years because of how shit they were in 7th
>tfw I'm going to be called a band-wagoning WAACfag for playing 100+ footsloggers in 1000 point games

so has anyone found a use for Dire Avengers? They seem overpriced, frail, and not worth it to me.

I recently managed to acquire an absurd amount of Crisis Suits for really really cheap but I'm torn Veeky Forums. I've always liked the appeal of playing Mobile Suit 40k and their lore (it's a nice pallet cleanser compared to my Emperor's Children and Deldar), but after suffering 7th ed vs Tau the last thing I want to do is roll all over everyone I play with because my army is broken.

tl;dr, going into 8th Edition, do Tau look any less ridiculous than they did before? Do you think 8th ed did a decent job balancing them so far?

2000 point list. Going to be fighting Tyranids and CSM most likely, plus some guard, SM, orks, and tau.

Battalion detachment

HQ:
Captain (Relic blade, storm bolter) 97 pts
Librarian in terminator armor (Storm bolter, force stave) 161 pts

Troops:
Tactical squad with gravgun, plasma cannon and combi-flamer, 175 pts
Tactical squad with plasmagun, missile launcher, combi-flamer, 179 pts
Infantry squad with flamer and autocannon, bolter sergeant, 63 pts

Fast attack:
5 assault marines with 2 flamers and a power sword, 87pts
Razorback (TL assault cannon, storm bolter) 102 pts

Elites:
5 sternguard, 95 pts
Razorback(Lascannon, TL plasmagun) 110 pts
Contemptor dreadnought (DCCW, combi-bolter, Multimelta) 167pts
5 cataphractii terminators. sgt with combi-bolter and power sword, 1 with heavy flamer and

power fist, 1 with combi-bolter and power fist, 2 with double lightning claws, 241pts
5 vanguards with jump packs. Sgt with thunder hammer + storm shield, 3 with bolt pistol + power sword, 1 with bolt pistol + chainsword, 134 pts

Predator with TL lascannon and 2 heavy bolters, 172
Leman russ (Battle cannon, lascannon, 2 HBs) 190 pts
Heavy Weapons Squad with 3 mortars, 27pts

>Thread Question: Will you try to list build around command points? How important are they?

Having played a few games of 8th and watching a squad of 30boys steal the charge bonus out from under someone, yes. Command points are very potent. If you only have 3 or 4 and your opponent has 6+, you are at a pretty noticeable disadvantage that you will feel once he auto passes 2 moral save against your heavy shooting when they should have been swept.

Where is the rule though? It says in eac detachment that the detachment has to be all the same faction, but it doesn't say anything about mixing detachment fations.

>Finishing up my guard army
>Planing to have 1 troop choice be a platoon blob
>Second troop choice to be Vets in a Chimera
>Vets are no longer troops
>Can no longer shoot from Chimeras
God damn it. I wanted to be able to focus on tanks finally but noooo, now I need another troop choice again.

So far I have a 500 point list and 1500 point list written up, and my general plans so far were to dedicate first-turn Acts of Faith letting Multi-Melta Retributors blitz upfield and reach choice cover, becoming a 24" radius fuck-you turret to anything that feels like eating 8-16 Melta shots, depending on hoe the Imagifiers are feeling, with a Cannoness near

or feed the Act of Faith to Celestine, who feeds a free one to Seraphim, and be a huge blob of melee-range distraction reaching the enemy front line turn 1

or both, depending on imagifiers.

A prototype 2000 point list I was working on had Heavy Bolter Retributors backed by a naked Cannoness, but it's not that I underestimate the holy bolter - I just feel like if I'm playing Sororitas, it'd be wrong to rely on anything other than PURGING FLAME

Im also not.... super psyched about the Exorcist in 8e, and on the fence about how to properly utilize Ministorum units It feels like there's a lot getting in the way of this army's intended synergy

Yes, by making Cawl the Fabricator General. Problem solved.

>Three Repulsor grav-tanks fell from the sky like stones, decelerating rapidly and coming to a gentle halt a couple of metres above the ground
guys, what if Repulsors can deep strike

Too bad if I have 4 dudes modeled with meltaguns

I'm sorry to hear that, however

Scions are awesome, are troops and Taurox Primes are awesome as well. Just pick up a SC Militarum box and you're good to go.

No shared keyword.
Which is good, taudar cancer and CtA allies was a trash system. There needs to be a limit on allies, no point in even having fluff if I can ally coateaz with my eldar to give me a major advantage.
It was just as bad as shit like thunder cannon stars: unfluffy and illogical.

Farseers still have shenanigans to avoid perils. Perils are very powerful so avoiding them is a big boon. Their powers are similar to the old classics too so they will work in a similar way. They cannot get away with the same move power move business as in 7th but the closest model rule should keep them safe.

Warlocks get to attach to any unit now, not just guardians so I can see them being used all the time.

Under matched play rules.

No one will be mad at you for playing Tau in 8th edition. You're now what Orks and Nids were in 7th edition.

Well, you're in luck actually. Basic guardsmen can't Platoon anymore, so those 50 bodies are now 5 separate troop choices.

What do you guys think of this mission and how it treats Heavy Support units? I think it's creative that they give unique benefits and draw backs to
units based upon the missions and battlefield role. Also if tournaments use random mission selection then it will have interesting consequences for peoples' tournament lists.

Has the lack of D taken the edge off of the wraith army?

It'll just be imperium and eldar with the superfriends lists.

Are you allowed to have negative points?

Is taking multiple Primaris Rhinos a decent way to combine arty with transports?

I don't believe anything specifically says such, but there's only one detachment that lowers your points and I can't imafine spamming it.

Don't see why not but I don't know why you would.

New to 40k with friends old Blood Angels army + starter kit.

I have two Baal Predators I could field. What are pros and cons of Flamer vs Autocannon configuration? I will probably have a primarily Death Company list and was assuming it would make sense to just go with double autocannon to balance out all of the close combat.

Main concern is going to be anti-vehicle capability. I have 3 Dreads I could use but I have no idea how easy it is to get them close enough to punch tanks.

Suggestions for anti-vehicle for Blood Angels? Just equip Death Company with power weapons?

Not in matched play. Superfriends is dead no matter what, and you can't ally eldar and imperials, they share no keywords AFAIK. And if you try to use the wu tang clan get around your opponent will punch you in the throat and you'll deserve it.
>inb4 elf loving Guilliman memes

Tournaments at least will probably have a limit on the number of detachments you can bring, but matched play only lets you use each stratagem once per-phase.

The only re-roll the core three stratagems currently offer only lets you re-roll one dice so it's rather nice but I'm not sure it will make or break some armies.

>Well, you're in luck actually. Basic guardsmen can't Platoon anymore, so those 50 bodies are now 5 separate troop choices.
They have completely removed the platooning mechanic?

Hu. Well I guess my Commissar isn't much use any more but it is probably good 50 guys are no longer 1 troop choice.

I meant that imperium can mix and match and eldar can mix and match, not both together.

Don't worry about it, friend. You deserve to win with DA BOYZ

>What do you guys think of this mission and how it treats Heavy Support units? I think it's creative that they give unique benefits and draw backs to
> units based upon the missions and battlefield role. Also if tournaments use random mission selection then it will have interesting consequences for peoples' tournament lists.

its almost the same as 6th edition-- cept this edition punishes AM, who are going to give up alot of points as their heavy weapons squads are really squishy...

im a big fan of big guns never tire so im happy

What? You need to read the rules, see anywhere that it says that you can't replace the keyword with Chaos, or replace the on Chaos Space Marines with Dark Angels?
No, because you can replace those keywords with almost any keyword you like, you could even have Company Commanders order Khorne Berserkers with Fix Bayonets! to have them attack 4 times in a turn, while a nearby Haemonculus boosts their Toughness to 5!

It's all rule legal too until they FAQ it, but till then you can have the Lost & The Damned or Chaos worshiping Orks and Eldar like in Rogue Trader.

Went to the store and played a game with a friend, 75 power lists so as to not fuck around with exact points values since points at rear is cancer. I brought kharn, a khorne lord, three rhinos filled with berserkers and two lascannon predators. He brought a wolf lord on doggo, a wolf guard on the same, three big units of thunderwolves, and two squads of wolf scouts that i ignored to my detriment

Vehicles really do not die easily, most of the time i weathered a turn of melee and then popped out to charge the wolves. Kharn is meh, i'm pretty sure another regular lord or a daemon prince would do his job better. Berserkers are good in combat-s6 is an excellent strength, wounding on 3+ is great-but they're quite fragile. Predators felt like a waste of points, pinging lascannons off storm shields all game, but i'm reserving judgement on them until i actually face enemy vehicles-i'd rather not have to try and chop up a baneblade/monolith/land raider with chainaxes. I feel footslogging is possible if you really horde it up, but other armies will probably do that better-looking at you, nids and orks.

He ended up winning, but we had both went through a bunch of combat and it was close. His wolf-guards thunderwolves charged kharns unit after they won a grueling combat where his wolf lord took kharn down to two wounds, after which kharn got pasted. Turn four i had my two predators, one nearly-full squad of berserkers plus lord and a rhino that were squatting on an objective, but all the rest of his thunderwolves-both of the surviving big units were damaged but still enough to slaughter me, especially on the charge-were closing in and his scouts had two of three objectives, so we called it so other people could play. Overall a fast game, wouldnt have been much more than a bit over an hour and a half. Typing wolf this much gave me cancer, why cant they have more imaginative naming sense?

>And if you try to use the wu tang clan get around your opponent will punch you in the throat and you'll deserve it.
This is it. This is the future we chose. We collectively, as a fandom, decided to make this sentence sensible.

I'm proud of all of you.

well the reason that I say 13 is that I was building a list earlier for Orks with a battalion and a fliers detachment. 3 base + 9 from battalion + 1 from fliers is 13 CP, and that's only 2 detachments.

The best way to get CP is by taking the superhuge detachments, not by spamming the small ones. So tournaments that have a limit on the number of detachments are not really going to holding back people from generating tons of CP.

Well, you're also also in luck, because a Commisar gives his benefits to any infantry unit within 6" of him, so if you bundle up your squads, they still can use a better leadership score and get shot in the head as normal

Anyone have thoughts on how to give Guardsmen a little more bite in CC? I'm not impressed with options so far.

MM rets will be fragile, especially without ablative bodies, but I'm telling you now that you need to throw the 7th edition mindset in the trash and realize that 4 MM will not reliably kill a rhino. Stationary gives 3 hits, 2 wounds, and 7 damage via math hammer, but having seen it first hand, it holds true. The double tap will obviously help.

A naked canoness is a waste. Give her a combi-weapon or a stormbolter and let her shoot things with her 2+ BS while giving preferred enemy. Exorcists are sketchy; I agree. I've actually been shying away from them for awhile due to reliability issues, which 8th did not help.

If you want to properly burn things, take a 10 girl squad of SoS with flamers and watch your opponent shit themselves from 10d6 shots that they can't even assault. I plan on running a full squad of flamer and great sword SoS alongside my SoB, though we'll see what happens later with Codex keyword stuff.

The Knight wasn't to scary. His shooting did quite an bit of damage to my Basilisk and Wyvern. But he couldn't survive the guards shooting onslaught and finely fell to the humble lasgun.

Ah. Makes much more sense. But at least that is fluffy to a certian degree.

The rules for matched play already include guidelines for limits on the number of detachments. 3 for 2000 points, which looks like the new standard. Reece and frankie all but confirmed that it's what ITC will be moving to, and I'd imagine most other tournaments will follow suit.

Are Helbrutes the best melee walker? They move 8", don't degrade, hit on 3+ and can get a whooping 8 attacks with the Power Scourge.

Should I take them with my Berzerker horde?

they work as an aura so it's easy enough for one commissar to manage 5 squads.

> Full Battalion AND Flyer Wing

At how many points? That's impressive at 2k or less

I can't wait to see what my Dreadclaw does in 8th, and if it can still carry a HB, I'm going to shit myself in excitement. I don't see why it can't because even in HH, Claws can carry dreads.

My only issue with it is being able to mix inside detachments, so you could use guardsman to help fill out a brigade for space marines for extra CP.

Eh, if it wasn't that it spuld be bullshit like "all my units have the character keyword, so it's battle forged" or some such bullshit, and it would cause such a problem GW would have to FAQ it because people are tards. And 7th edition allies was broken, better this than that mess.

Orks have a lot of cheap units that easily fill up slots. Painboyz are elites, mek gunz are heavy support, gretchin troops, etc.

That's probably why they split it between normal keywords and Faction keywords

Yeah, but that will limit command points, strangers, chapter tactics and so on when we get codexes.
At least I assume, since that's what GW has hinted at.
You will be able to bring it, but it will screw you over in other ways.

>fell to the humble lasgun

Brings a tear to my eye, keep it up Commander, keep those Xenos at bay!

What's the word on vanilla marines? I haven't seen much about them concerning 8th; they keep getting overshadowed by the special chapters/Primaris.

Wanting to start up an Ultramarine force in 8th.

>vostroyanbro
how did your ogryn do?

Played a game with my admech last night against space clowns. Dragoons are hilarious. I absolutely love them. I don't regret the investment in a large group of them at all. The exploding sixes, the consistent +3 s on the lances, the fact that they have six wounds now, all absolutely beautiful. I love my fucking chicken walkers

Here's hoping.

>whats the word on vanilla marines
what do you mean?
they're the same as they've always been, except chapter tactics are dogshit

Manlet marines are still pretty good, way better than the thiccmarines, they had their bullshit toy the grav-cannon nerfed but they're still decent