/STG/ - Star Trek General

I don't think Voyager would've been done properly if it was like that. It's still Star Trek and Star Trek should still be at its core optimistic. For all the shit that DS9 put the Federation through, it was allying with and aiding previous enemies that saved the day, not simply mass murdering everyone and being grimderp.

Voyager should focus the Federation's strength of conflict resolution and alliance building. I'm not saying there shouldn't be room for conflict and morality testing, there should be. But over seasons, and eventually over the entire series, Voyager should steadily grow a fleet of allies. Salvage and repair the Maquis ship. Come across other travels who see the value in strength in numbers. Eventually when Voyager reaches home it should be with a bunch of alien ships with them.

>Other alien races exploring
>See Voyager as the stranded lost little ship that they have to rescue
>Or at least as some bold pioneers on the other side of the galaxy
>tfw they spur the local powers into starting their own peaceful(ish) exploration
>tfw some of them join the ship or follow it home just out of sheer adventure
>tfw "You've made more First Contacts than anyone since Kirk" isn't just a throwaway bullshit line
Fund it right fucking now. Or ANYTHING that makes the DQ anything more than Grimderp + Lolsorandumb

Enterprise:
>crew changes
Archer is the slightly scruffy, very full-of-himself hotshot pilot/helmsman. Basically your typical test pilot bravado, but also very skilled. Best pilot in Starfleet, so they gave him the best pilot job. Has the rank of Captain, which has potential for conflict with ship's captain. Didn't actually get the big chair because he's offended too many admirals too many times, and he kinda resents it.
Reed is still tac officer, but now is also First Officer. Is simultaneously a horn dog and extremely bad with women (basically your typical >tfw no gf user), making him the comic relief in these situations. Gets along with the captain, because the captain actually listens to most of his suggestions (which Starfleet mostly blew off - muh mission of peace and all that).
Trip is Captain. Younger, but also very skilled, and a natural diplomat, with southern charm (as opposed to being . Could have been chief engineer, but Starfleet made him captain instead, since they wanted a captain with a new mindset, for the brand-new mission profile. Archer is his friend and mentor from way back.
Mayweather is the quartermaster and backup shuttle pilot. Only seen when we need him.
Hoshi is an academic linguist and hacking expert because of course those go together. Is not the ship's telephone operator though - she has an office for herself, like a proper academic. She only comes to the bridge when the UT doesn't work (which is often enough to justify her in the OP). Malcom's official love interest, though she spends most of the series (until the Romulan War) playing hard to get.
T'Pol is merely the science officer, and an observer who has no place in the Starfleet chain of command (at least not until later, when she joins the crew officially - and wears the official uniform). Also handles communications, since all the aliens around are used to Vulcans, and the UT is tuned to Vulcanian.
Chief engineer is some person. Maybe female for more fanservice.

Figured I'd expand on this due to lack of anything better to do:

It'd follow a few season long arcs, not a seven season behomoth, more like a tight 3 seasons, with an end point planned but with plenty of trap-doors built in to the minor details like characters in case of stuff like actor troubles.

Start would be an opening with the Romulans attacking, much of the first episodes is spent establishing the setting, characters, having fleeting battles with the Romulans and eventually drawing everyone together. Archer gets moved up to carrier command from some low patrol boat after showing he's not just a good leader, but good with groups and knows how to do more than point the guns at the targets. A lot of time needs to be spent establishing the crew getting together and working together, beyond just doing their duty. We pick up a lot of characters along the way from other ships and worlds.

There's conflict in how to deal with the war, effects on the home front, strained relations with the Vulcans, maybe trying to find some other allies eventually. Series one ends with the Enterprise being commissioned and leading the battle against the Romulans in the Sol system, blunting their offensive.

Mid point of the show is just the general strains of war, holding the line and avoiding outright defeat. A lot of the usual stuff like Enterprise and the fleet getting fucked over, having to deal with other aliens taking advantage of the war (Orions of course), drawing up the alliance with the Andorians who are up for the fight but don't like Earth's other allies, trying to mediate that along with the Tellarites and Vulcans but not really succeeding, driving the story along up to the point that Earth is finally deploying enough new ships (thanks to spreading the war burden out a bit) to being to turn the tide.

End chunk of the show would be the long, gruelling march towards victory and peace. Plenty of spanners being thrown in the proverbial works, Archer having to deal with a multiple-race fleet and somehow making it work. Showing that there's more to people than just being good at fighting, and there's more to the fighting than just having fancy ships.
Series end it one long thing of the final battles but leading into the peace treaty, which then leads into forming the UFP.

One big thing I'd have to add though is a decent reoccurring Romulan villain selection. A few commanders, the Emperor, that kinda thing. We keep to people never seeing them, but giving them a face for their side of the war is needed for a series in order to make sure they're shown as a smart threat not just a faceless horde. But to also make it clear they lose because whilst they can work together as Romulans, they don't work with the other races by anything but stealthy manipulation. Probably ends with the Emperor being assassinated by a fairly sympathetic character so peace negotiations can happen. But the inspiration needs to heavily be reliant on the TOS Romulans. Understandable, not blatantly evil, though definitely ruthless.

*(as opposed to being a dumb hick)
CONT.
Chief engineer would have been a subordinate or even rival of Trip's, older (slightly) but less obviously gifted. Was going for captain of Enterprise, but passed over for Trip. Why not make her Erika Hernandez, because she's still pretty hot despite being older, and fills a couple diversity spots too. Then she can have banter and eventual shipping with Archer. And later she can get the NX-02, much to Archer's chagrin. Then Seth MacFarlane can be the engineer I guess.
Phlox is still Phlox. Trip is more centered morally, so that will counteract some of the dumb stuff Archer was browbeaten into. Also, no dog, so no "A Night in Sickbay".
>other character interactions
-When it's mentioned (early on) that T'Pol is 56, shipping between Archer and T'Pol starts. That eventually goes nowhere, just like on the real show. Eventually everyone learns that later 50's in Vulcan years is equivalent to late 20's for humans, and then official shipping between Trip and T'Pol starts (and influences when she joins Starfleet). Eventually they get married after the stuff from "Demons" happens, etc.
-T'Pol still has all the drama with getting Vulcan married, her mom, and so on.
-The Big Three is Trip, Archer, and Hernandez. They have history and friendship and stuff, so it's natural. When Hernandez leaves, T'Pol takes her place.
-That being said, there is more of an ensemble feel, like DS9. The Big Three don't dominate like they did on TOS or ENT. All the character "cliques" interact as one would expect. Aliens hang out together, scientists/nerds hang out, pilots hang out and talk shop, etc.
-Archer still has his dog, which he gets to keep on-ship because he's the captain's buddy. Archer likes to take him on walks around T'Pol's quarters, because >muh Vulcans.
-Archer is just more of a jerk in general, because he doesn't need to tone it down as the responsible officer. He'll often banter inappropriately on the bridge. (cont.)

Looks pretty good from the front, honestly.

(cont)
-Archer will also talk back to Trip a lot, especially when he's particularly grumpy. Trip will get mad at him, pull rank, whatever, DRAMA.
-Shran (when he becomes more of a regular) is Archer's buddy. He respects Archer's pride and bluntness, which is a lot like his own. Trip won't really like him for a while (Archer is enough hothead to handle), but trusts Archer's judgment about Shran enough to give him a lot of chances.
-Hoshi eventually gets some alien assistant. Maybe a Tellarite exchange student.
>FANSERVICE
-Uniforms are a bit more form-fitting. Not even as tight as TOS uniforms, and still functional with all the pockets and stuff, but just a little tighter.
-More excercise stuff, to get everyone to show off their hot bods.
-Decon chamber remains, but is different. No more rubbing gel on each other, but more like showers - high-pressure showers (like actual decon). So everyone gets nekkid, in towels, etc.
-All Vulcans wear the tight clothes T'Pol wears. ALL of them. Old/distinguished Vulcans get those big jackets we see them wear, but low-level people are just like T'Pol, at least for the Science Directorate or whatever she works for. It's more logical to be more flexible, after all.
>plotting
-NO TCW
-First couple of seasons are basically what we saw, just better-written.
-More politics/eps back on Earth (at least in part), especially concerning the building of Columbia.
-S3 starts build up for Rom war. More interstellar politics, especially more Tellarites. No Xindi, no Trellium D, no Neuropressure.
-S4 pretty much as shown. Hernandez leaves, new engineer.
-S5 shows that the Vulcans were trying to hold back Enterprise-class because they were favoring the Daedalus-class, which is just coming on-line, having fixed a lot of problems it had before. Maybe an arc showing how Daedalus is smaller, cheaper, and better, but what really matters is what the crew is like. More build-up to Romulan War.

You seem to have given that quite a lot of thought.

Reminds me of mass effect rewrites on Veeky Forums

(no offence, I was enjoying those too)

(cont)
-S6 brings us the actual Romulan War. Structured similarly to the Xindi arc - Enterprise going around, trying to figure out where the hell the Romulans are, getting ambushed all the time, Cowboy Planet, eventually closing in on Romulus with the help of the Allies. Daedalus, which was an antagonist before, proves an invaluable ally here for reasons. Shows what the future will be like. Eventually Enterprise wins, NZ established, the end.
-S7 is the founding of the Federation and the aftermath of the Romulan War. All the politics involved with uniting seperate space kingdoms - many of which were hostile to each other before - into one political space empire. Some allies join, most do not (like Denobula - insert some Phlox story there). Also find out Vulcans knew all about the Romulans the whole time, arc about whether, and then how, to cover it up.Stories about integrating the various militaries and stuff, how Starfleet and Earth became the center of the Federation, and eventually synonymous with it (perhaps involving Earth's complete loss of autonomy, whereas everyone else kept a lot), all that politics jazz. Archer becomes the main politics guy, gives the speeches, revels in the glory, while Trip just wants to be a speesman in spees.

We have this kind of thing come up a bunch, I think we've all been gradually refining how we'd re-do Voyager and Enterprise over time.

There's some good takes with a general consensus on what needs to change but how people go about it differs. user here is very much character focused, and has some decent ideas on how to change up the glaringly bland, awful characters Enterprise had, where as user is very much about changing up the big picture and overall arc of events.

Frankly I'd rather have either of those than what we got. Even having nothing would have arguably been better.

...

Star Trek General: Elite Force Edition

Munro Subedition

Biessman Sub-Subedition

Who did you pick as your romantic interest: the naggy bitch with no redeemable qualities, or the slut that walks around in a bikini as her professional attire?

Biessman of course!

Option C: my Micro-Photon torpedo launcher.

Bikini, obv, since she has at least two redeemable qualities. Hey-o!

If I had the opportunity to go full Krenim, I'd have:

Established the Romulans as a bigger deal in TOS and carried that over into TNG.

Made some minor aesthetic tweaks to DS9 and then killed Dukat in a satisfying manor rather than all that Pah Wrsith Bullshit.

Made decisions matter more on Voyager. As much as I love Year of Hell and Equinox, I wouldn't have made the show BSG-trek. Voyager should become a grafter's ship. Repaired and augmented by the crew and their allies. And I would absolutely play up the tension between the Maquis and Starfleet crew. But I'd make that more of an internal, quiet struggle than a constant gunfight.

Make the Enterprise more about all the characters, as well as putting all of the characters in wildly different philosophical camps. Archers a test pilot, Reed is a Military man, Hoshi is a civilian translator, Maywether is a space trucker and T'pol/Phlox are Aliens. At this point in the story. All of these people should really be at odds.

But realistically, if paramount made the terrible decision to give me creative control of a Star Trek show, id make something new. Respectful of the established lore but departed enough from established events to allow for creative freedom.

Has anyone here played Federation and Empire? If so, would you recommend it?

>Voyager should become a grafter's ship
>I would absolutely play up the tension between the Maquis and Starfleet crew
>make that more of an internal, quiet struggle
So, BSG-trek? At least the better, non-shooty parts of it.

I'd take Enterprise but set it back a few years. Start the show in the late 21-teens so World War III is still in living memory. Play up the stubborn determination of humanity get back on its feet after fighting a war ten times worse than World War II. (Seriously, look it up. 600 million dead, and who knows how many more dripping with radiation.)

Don't shy away from talking about how horrible the war was, but only as a mirror to add some contrast to how far humanity's come. "It's been a long road" after all, and we're finally ready to step into the stars.

To add a bit of optimism, maybe add some extra-terrestrial colonies. A small mars base that was just getting its feet under it when the war broke out and had to learn how to colony the hard way. But they're human after all, and that stubborn terran spirit of invention just wouldn't let them die. Now Utopia Planitia is known as a hotbed of engineers as brilliant as they are stubborn. (Maybe someone should build a shipyard there?)

Spend the first arc just getting the NX-01 in flight shape. She's an experimental testbed for a fancy new engine design. The Vulcans tried to offer us their ring-type drives--and we mounted them on a few of the XCV-330s--but Cochrane stuck with his inline design (partly because he saw Big E's and realized that was the way of the future?) But while Enterprise promises to be a *very* fast ship... she's cranky and every few episodes she's back in drydock for a tweak. Play the first bit like The Right Stuff. Faltering and mistepping, but edging closer to the goal with every step.

>Crew
Archer's salvageable with better writing, and Scott's a great actor. Make Archer a test-pilot/engineer who worked on the NX-project and knows the very persnickety Enterprise like the back of his hand. He's got icewater in his veins--you have to when you're pushing the very limits of what's technological possible--and can think on his feet. Think doing multi-vector calculus in your head while trying to keep your ship from falling off its own tail. Spend more time showing him as insightful and clever. He might fumble a bit with diplomatic relations, but write him as a guy earnestly trying to be diplomatic.

Hoshi needs more screen time. The universal translator hasn't been invented yet, so she should be doing more diplomacy to keep things from getting out of hand. Bump her up to lieutenant commander and make her more equal with the rest of the crew.

Complementing that, give Travis more to do. He's a freighter brat, he should be at least as useful in feeling out alien cultures as Hoshi. She has the academic side down, but Travis knows if that burly looking alien is trustworthy or not.

Make Tripp a martian-born engineer. Always tinkering and fiddling with the questionably-safe reactor to try and coax it into working the way he wants it to. Has developed a few martian superstitions that he carried with him to the engine room. T'Pol at first thinks he's crazy, but eventually comes around. After all... logically calling the reactor "baby" doesn't cost you anything, but it seems to make the ship run better.

Let Reed be the XO/TAO. This Enterprise doesn't have much in the way of shields or phasers. Her armament revolves around throwing ridiculous numbers of nuked-tipped missiles at things she doesn't like and praying her laser CWIS sweeps up the enemy's torpedoes before her feeble shields have to tank the blow. Neurotic, but gets increasingly calmer the more nukes are in the air.

Add Major Hayes from the start, with the MACOs as a combination Marine force/EV-suit team. They do the away mission stuff when it's too dangerous for the main cast to do, and give a supply of muave shirts if we want some kind of danger.

>Plots

Screw the Prime Directive. Earth needs allies. Star out making friends wherever we can. Maybe there's a world next to one of our colonies that's just starting to achieve chemical-based spaceflight. Dock Enterprise at their space station--that the ship utterly dwarfs--and negotiate to buy some of their crops in exchange for some of our tech. It's cheaper than hauling it all the way out via warp-3 freighter.

Meanwhile, have the romulan war star brewing in the background. Nothing obvious at first. Just an unexplained sensor reading here, or a comment there during a different plot arc. Let us get to know the universe before breaking out into war.

>Beef McLargehuge

Never even seen it before. Kinda looks like a precursor to Ascendancy.

>Tfw there will never be another trek game that lets you explore the whole ship as an add on.

This, this is probably the best one I've seen so far. The whole thing doesn't need to be completely overhauled, the whole thing just needs to be more committed (to each character's backstory, to the tech levels, to United Earth's history, to the Enterprise truly being a cranky yet cutting-edge testbed, and to the whole "this is Trek BEFORE Trek" deal). And no timecop.

I got the collectors edition of that game
It had a pin and a comic and some shit that came with it.

>The whole thing doesn't need to be completely overhauled, the whole thing just needs to be more committed
Best way to sum up Enterprise and Voyager. Both suffered from having great and interesting ideas that were handicapped by making them too safe.

What was in the comic?

I don't have a scanner or I'd post it, but it was about some delta aliens using deactivated borg tech to shake down some other aliens and then coming across voyager and the Elite Force team dealing with it. It ended with Seven reactivating the borg tech and then leaving as it ate the scammers.

That seems kind of fucked up

Kinda in character with Seven, especially early seasons, you mess with her friends or equipment and you get electrocuted like that one Hirogen found out.

Which is ironically, just how the maquis should have been acting.

If they'd not been instantly wasted.

I don't know, the Maquis were pretty heavy on their high and mighty morals

They were heavy about muh lands more than morals.

They attracted a shit-ton of nutjobs, rejects and people just looking for some kind of fight or cause. Morals ain't that high on the scale. Even ol' plank Chakotay had adapted to getting shit done through violence when it seemed like it'd work.

>youtube.com/watch?v=2A5z0TcfAbc

Is there an official timeline/history or any books that cover the development of the Mirror Universe? When was the point of divergence between the two universe supposed to occur?

The TOS one was implied to have changed at the start of the Federatopm, the novel Dark Mirror states that humanity became darker after happened sometime after the New Testament, and that the Starfleet of that book arose out of Khan's actions. There's not a lot of detail unfortunately, because none of the Mirror Universe's history is explored.

That's a shame. I always found it fascinating, it'd be interesting to see an alternate history where Ghandi was some sort of bloodthirsty terrorist and Stalin was a democratic reformer who loved his son, but ultimately leading to a far worse society.

>Ghandi was some sort of bloodthirsty terrorist
...Civilization games are set in the mirror universe?

Now it all makes sense.

Go away, Noye, or we'll set Daniels and Admiral (you) on you again.

We need a goatee mod for Civ, stat.

>video
>mirror WWII
I really, really want to see this explored more now

By the logic of the Mirror universe being oppositeland when it comes to individual morality, Hitler really would be a humble, duty-focused statesman rather than a narcassistic ego-maniac, but I doubt they'd ever cover a mirror WW2 where the Allies are the genocidal nutjobs and the Axis are the democracies, purely because it'd be so easy for misintepretation and leave the creator/s open for accusations of neo-nazi sympathies.

The creators of the alt-history comic 'Uber' got accused of being neo-nazis simply because it shows the (still morally bankrupt) Nazis winning most of the time, and the artist is black.

Plus the rage from /pol/-related sections of the interwebs over Hitler leading a multi-ethnic coalition dedicated to personal liberty doesn't bear thinking about.

Would certainly be interesting though, there's a lot of Trek history in general I'd like to see, both prime and mirror. Seeing how the Mirror universe Eugenics Wars turned out would be interesting, Khan et al clearly still lost since we don't see mirror universe humans being able to bitchslap Klingons across the room.

>we can't see Mirror Hitler because moralfags
>wheredoyouthinkweare.pdf
Seriously though, any prospective writefags around who might be able to give this a bash?

>Seeing how the Mirror universe Eugenics Wars turned out would be interesting, Khan et al clearly still lost since we don't see mirror universe humans being able to bitchslap Klingons across the room.
They probably won, then descended into infighting and killed each other off. There is a Myriad Universe short story about something similar about that though, with Bashir as the focus character.

Lately I've been wanting a really crunchy space ship game. Is SFB what I'm looking for?

Yes.

I'd do the same thing Babylon 5 did: Establish some god damn Canon and tell small stories each episode which links into the seasons main overarching story. That's how B5 has such a cult following: By the end of the series, if you watch every episode, you feel like you really grew with these characters.

Hell, even recent shows like Burn Notice had a season wide story which made you want to tune in from episode to episode to see that plot advance.

Enterprise implies that the limit of divergence occurred much earlier in human history. Archer says something to the effect of "this empire has endured for over 1000 years". Given the naming convention of the Empire, as well as its solute, I would wager that the Terran Empire is a direct successor state to the Roman Empire or subsequent Bizantine Empire.

Funny enough, they make a point to mention that Shakespeare is unchanged.

Unless it means using a weapon their enemies are quite happy to use against them. Chakotay was adamant about not using the dreadnought against a Cardassian target.

That's because Chakotay was some pussy college professor who joined up because of his ideals, and ended up in charge of his group because no-one else was remotely capable unless they were a star fleet/cardassian agent, not someone who was doing the whole guerrilla warfare thing right.

One version anyway. Dark Mirror has Shylock taking his pound of flesh from Antonio and killing him. Plato is also different, stating that the perfect government was "fear meted out to the populace in proper proportion by the wise ruler." I do like the idea it was a gradual thing.

Sorry I'm bringing up Beta canon so much, it's the only stuff we have talking about the Mirror U more.

>Here's the profile and first three decks of the passenger pod. The critical systems don't start until F deck (bridge) so any of the top 5 decks can simply be gutted, put blast doors on either end and you have yourself a flight deck pod. The rest of the recreational areas can be converted into support facilities and crew quarters so the pilots and related personnel can be comfortably stationed in the pod themselves.
>Imagine finding one of these just drifting around in the 24th, heavily modified by the descendants of the original crew and passengers for long term habitation after their tug exploded/dumped them.
>Would make a good horror-themed episode, honestly. With the population turning into Calhoun's Universe 25 experiment on a larger scale, with humans.
>youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM
>That would require abundant resources that probably wouldn't be present in a large cargo container to the degree that the Universe 25 experiment becomes applicable.
>More likely would be a Hills Have Eyes IN SPAAAAACE!!!! thing.
>Although a few generations probably isn't enough time for the really interesting deformities to start.
>Some guy did that in a previous thread, except on board a Deadalus class ship
>Innsmouth
>Context: We were talking about how Daedalus Class ships must be crowded, so thins guy took it to the extreme and wrote what it would be like if there was close a thousand on board.

Post-VOY; retracing the route of Voyager a decade on, sometimes to make good on Voyager's errors, other times to explore, other times, you know, Trek stuff. Crippled Borg micro-states errywhere; slipstream drives inelegantly retrofitted to Federation ships to make the possibility of instant reinforcement unreliable at best. A new ship designed to pathfind and test the new drive; you know, classic Trek crap, but on a wider canvas that doesn't need the forced wormhole drama and can raise genuine questions about Federation expansion and what the Federation and Starfleet do. Old faces cameo; new faces lead. Nobody who did a fan movie for meth gets a cameo. No hanging around particular races unless there's a short arc, no Klingon episodes, no ebin space warz. Judi Durand as the computer.

>Hard mode: Make Enterprise good and appease the studio's desire for fan service at the same time.

I feel like Enterprise suffered more from expectation and franchise fatigue than it did from truly below-par storytelling or production. There's some fuckawful episodes of TNG; VOY isn't as shit-the-bed bad as I remember it, but it's inconsistent in a way that we tend to forget got TOS cancelled the second time as people lost patience with its brain-transplantin shenanigans.

DS9... god, what a shitshow so much of that is. Great characters, great setting, utterly wasted premise. They're on a station but they can't stay on it; they've got the GC to explore but it's not all that different to anywhere else, so the Dominion come along. And then it's just growling and pew pews and endless escalation. Fuck that show. Really nicely made garbage.

You know? Like almost anything you can level at ENT you can apply to any other show too; it just has the misfortune of coming last. Still, four seasons in the early 2000s is a lot harder than 3 in the 60s or 7 in the 80s/90s were. Good for them. Not everything can be a winner. Also, what the fuck happened to Jolene Blalock. Seriously.

...

>They're on a station but they can't stay on it; they've got the GC to explore but it's not all that different to anywhere else, so the Dominion come along. And then it's just growling and pew pews and endless escalation. Fuck that show. Really nicely made garbage.
They figured they couldn't explore the galaxy, so they'd explore the human (or whatever alien) condition. The Dominion War tested people. Their morals and principles were put on the line, weighed against real consequences instead of Voyager's pat "easy way out" bullshit. They stopped giving a crap about the anomaly/aliens/tech-tech of the week and focused on good, old-fashioned exploration of characters and ideals-versus-reality. And at the end, would the Alpha Quadrant even won if Section 31 hadn't betrayed the Federation's dearest principles and engaged in genocidal biological warfare? Or if Sisko hadn't manipulated the Romulans into the war through forgery and murder? DS9 is where the lines of morality and values get significantly fuzzier, and emphasizes that we need to look deep within ourselves for answers instead of relying on Voyager-style "hurr durr here's a last-second quick fix" bullshit.

It might've been the farthest from Roddenberry's vision, but it was the greatest of Star Trek series because it dared to do what nearly everything else (except Wrath of Khan and maybe The Undiscovered Country) dared to do.

>it dared to do what nearly everything else (except Wrath of Khan and maybe The Undiscovered Country) dared to do.
Didn't dare to do. I'm a faggot.

Roddenberry's Vision got really fucking stupid towards the end.

Humans have no interpersonal conflicts anymore, have no sad feelings about death, think putting children on an exploration ship is a good idea and other such retardation.

Do what Roddenberry did originally: set up a basic premise, hand it to a bunch of mid- and mid-high-tier SFF writers, and let them work, with not too much worry over tone and continuity.

Worst thing they did to Star Trek was make it a *franchise*.

>By the logic of the Mirror universe being oppositeland when it comes to individual morality
But that's not what the MU is. It might be opposite in collective morality (for Earth only - nobody else we've seen is more evil than we'd expect for the circumstances), but there's nothing that shows that anybody is anything else than more aggressive, considering the circumstances in which they grew up. Indeed, that's probably it - humans are just generally more aggressive, so instead of creating a peaceful federation, they built an empire when they could. Judging by the original Empire flag, and the fact that the moon scene in the ENT OP was typical American stuff (and all the WWII scenes were just stock footage), the Allies won WWII, but instead of stopping at a certain point and Patton getting truck'd, Patton went on to Berlin and through the Soviets like he wanted. A more imperialist America during the early- and mid-20th century would create the conditions we see in the MU.

Roddenberry wanted to fondle girls in short skirts and get paid to do it. He got to do just that. All he had to do was pick a subject that was open to the idea, make up a basic premise and then let all the out of work scifi writers go crazy.

That's a lot of the maquis though. A bunch of them were Starfleeters that were disgusted by the treaty, and how the Federation did nothing while the spoonheads did all sorts of obvious violations. That seemed to be a lot of the leadership, for good reason.

>Roddenberry's Vision got really fucking stupid towards the end.
That's because Roddenberry's Vision was something he used to make money off 70's college students. has it mostly right, but Gene also wanted to be known as a great writer, which is why he messed with scripts so much. He was a glory hound, and took credit for a lot of stuff that just plain wasn't his - such as The Vision.

>He was a glory hound, and took credit for a lot of stuff that just plain wasn't his - such as The Vision.
Reminder he wrote lyrics for the TOS opening theme that never got used, just so he could screw Alexander Courage (the composer) out of some money.

He was many things, but above all he was a pretty shitty embodiment of Star Trek's ideals.

In my opinion people bitching about DS9 "Not Roddenberrys Vision" are forgetting that TOS actually had episodes that dealt with war and violence.

Hell Kirk armed some locals with weapons when he found out that Klingos had done the same before. What is different is that TOS didn't have the budget or the technology to do the huge fleet battles DS9 could do.

What I am saying is that Roddenberrys Vision wasn't something Holy Bible some seem to take it, it was more of guideline at start atleast.

Mostly it's the way he battered TNG into having no real fire until The Best of Both Worlds, and even the best episodes were hampered by the series being forced into playing it safe until Roddenberry died as the "Roddenberry Vision" issue. Then Voyager just got treated like the retarded kid that latched on to big brother TOS with a higher budget.

I like the basic IDEA of Roddenberry's vision, and actually believe that it isn't anathema to a good dramatic series, but boy did it tend to be executed badly.

>TNG
Yeah I like the series in general, it actually wins over DS9 of having in my opinion better ending of the series than DS9 could pull off. But reading what happened behind the curtains of TNG is kinda sad, Roddenberry bitching about some episodes because the humans in 24th Century "would not feel sadness" is retarded, and i agree TNG improved immensly when Roddenberry was not active on it anymore.

Most of it was Roddenberry getting this idea that his VISION was bestest thing ever, even going against what would be considered good show.

Looks like the Orion cruiser from SFC:2

TNG certainly had a better ending. One of DS9's biggest failings was it's underwhelming conclusion. I think the whole prophet timeline was pretty weak to begin with and keeping the wormhole aliens as a semi-mythical force in Bajoran history would have worked out better.

By comparison, TNG's ending is a fun jaunt through the major events and themes of the show.

>VOY wasn't that bad
>ENT wasn't that bad
>DS9 was shit because it wasn't exploring
>no long arcs
>more ayylmaos-of-the-week
>get rid of the Borg's whole monolithic, unstoppable horde schtick
>just make them ayylmaos-of-the-week too
>no war pls
>no conflict pls
>just exploring
>no cameos from actors who genuinely love the franchise
>just the ones who are only in it for the shekels instead
Rick Berman pls go, and stay go. You too, Gene.

Your taste, it is objectively shit.

I unironically enjoyed Enterprise desu
just felt sorry for the vulcan girl a lot.

I enjoyed it too, at least some of the episodes anyway. By no means was it perfect but it was certainly Star Trek

t. The guy that made the viewing guide

He's right though, who the fuck let Rick find /stg/?

>>DS9 was shit because it wasn't exploring

DS9 was shit because it never figured out what to be and settled for being a war show with No Stakes because you knew it would wrap up by the end of the series.

>show about a station
>show about Bajor
>show about the GC

But never did stick to any of these things and suffered as a result. 7 seasons and how many times did we see anything of Bajor that wasn't a matte? How many times did we hear anything about it that wasn't clumsy exposition delivered by Kira?

The introduction of the Defiant marks the point at which the show gave up on being about the station; the mining of the wormhole, taking it out of action until the end of the series (since nobody ever went through it again until after the war), marks the end of the show being about that.

It was a show about nothing.

>more ayylmaos-of-the-week

Do you not like Star Trek at all? Even DS9 had those.

>no cameos from actors who genuinely love the franchise

No, no cameos from actors who do fan shows for meth. Learn to read.

>just exploring

SOME KIND OF MISSION

WITH A LENGTHY DURATION I GUESS

>get rid of the Borg's whole monolithic, unstoppable horde schtick

It's already gone. Hell, they only ever sent one ship against the Federation anyway, even though they were known to send dozens to assimilate single worlds in the DC.

>no long arcs

Long arcs are a problem in tv generally. Too many shows spend so long each week setting up the season finale that they forget to tell a story. Fuck 'em. You're not magically going to get good storytelling just because you've got a big whiteboard in your office covered in post-its about how everything ties together.

Surprised at how small the Dauntless actually is

He says, posting Babylon 5

>a war show with No Stakes because you knew it would wrap up by the end of the series.

You must really hate stuff like Band of Brothers or any other war drama.

Honestly though your entire argument is so full of holes it pretty much has to be trolling.

>literally DS9 but better
>and made on a smaller budget than any trek since TOS

B5 was DS9 done right.

Your flaw is that you assume a show must be about A Thing when it's clear that shows like Star Trek only use A Thing so it can explore peoples' reactions to A Thing. DS9 was never about A War, it was about how the people reacted to handled being in A War, the lengths they'd go to in order to end it, how it affected their lives, and so on. Nobody gives a shit about Starfleet's tactics in the 5451nd Battle of Omicron Kappa Fuckoffistan 3, it was exploring the human condition using said battle as a plot device that was the real story.

But also without B5, we probably wouldn't have gotten DS9.

Frankly, I am glad we have both.

No please. Tell me how any of the races weren't one dimensional. Or tell me how about characters outside of Londo and G'Kar are actually good.

DS9 was better. Just accept that and get on with your lives.

Are you serious? Barring the Narn arc, B5 was over-theatrical and had far more shit episodes than good. Pretending that the good outweighs the bad is ridiculous.