Who's gonna win?

Been living under a rock, what's this about chaos getting back to armageddon?

Chaos is infinitely powerful. It's shit writing when they lose.

>these chaos replies
>they haven't realized chaos are still jobbers
>they haven't realized chaos still BTFO by the imperium
Read dark imperium guys, chaos gets its ass kicked in the indominus crusade as usual thanks to epic levels of jobbing. Made possible by chaos jobbing harder than any other faction in the setting by capturing guillimans entire crusade but letting them escape.

'Ere we go 'ere we go!

What adaptations do tyranids have to beat Orks and why haven't they been having the same success they usually do against the imperium

the imperium doesn't have the manpower to constantly throw men into the the tyranid war and replenish losses as fast as the Orks. They also don't have the logistical advantage of being able to set up their ecosystems and infrastructure wherever they go

Everyone falls, even the emperor. Then a single guardsman steps forth from his hiding spot, plants a flag, declares a job well done and fucks off. They just had one more man than everyone else had ammo.

Guard victory!

1) Orks are vastly more numerous than Imperials
2)They don't require infrastructure to build and maintain arms
3) They don't suffer from morale and will keep fighting as long as they can
4) Assassinating warbosses becomes less effective the more often you do it because they become more easily replaced by a Nob and infighting is less frequent because they are fighting a bigger enemy
5) Phage cells and Ork spores combat eachother on a celluar level. So spores can still gestate on occupied worlds.
6) Orks readily flock to conflict so they will get more and more boys to travel from around the galaxy to fight of their own freewill.
7) Technological advantage, Orks are actually pretty advanced technologically and clever mekboys always have a crazy invention or two. So they don't completely rely on a numbers game.
6) They sort of mimic the hivefleets in how they approach attrition: They constantly reproduce extremely quickly. They eat their and their opponents dead. Their physiology is extremely hardy and combats their opponents on every level of the biosphere.

I've say it before and I'll say it again, Orks are designed to be the Galaxies lymphocytes: white (or in this case green) blood cells.

When a large enough threat gathers they explode in activity to combat it and once the threat ends, they no longer have common case. They infight until they disperse themselves and the status quo returns.

Nids are just a lethal virus and Orks are the galactic immune system.

This seems like the logical end to the whole setting.

>this is what chaos fags actually believe

>Ollanius Pius wasn't actually obliterated from existence
>Horus just smacked him into next week, 12,000 years into the future.

If you so much as mention that "Ollanius Pius was a perpetual" bullshit, I'm gonna smack YOU into next week

>Abbadon gets to Terra
>gets to the golden throne
>Ollanius Pius showed up and gets bitch slapped again
>big E gets up and punches Abbadon so hard all of chaos dies

The two ideas aren't incompatible. Chaos will win against all Xenos forces, wiping the slate clean so that the red team can fight and lose to the blue team forever.

they're always massively outnumbered and majority of tomb worlds haven't woken up.

chaos only exists if there are psychic beings to fuel them, orks have latent psychic abilities and are completely immune to chaos, chaos shits the bed when against necron, tyranid give no shits about them either.

Chaos is only infinitely powerful to Eldar and Humanity.

>Pius is always conveniently bitchslapped into a Monet in time where someone is about to make an attempt on the Emperor's life or destroy something vital to the Imperium of the Galaxy
>Everytime he shows up, he always inadvertently attracts the attention of the big bad, and gets bitchslapped through time and space again, buying enough time for good guys to get their shit together and stop the threat.
>A myth is develops around him as one of the Emperor's holy gaurdian angel's and the Patron Saint of Martyrs.
>He's just a poor schmuck who's just tired, scared, and a bit nauseous from being thrown around time and space so much.

Orks always win, because if they die, they're dead so they can't lose, and if they run away, that's because they'll be back to fight again

The Necrons have vastly outnumbered the space marines they lost to in almost every occasion those type of battles happen, and they usually outnumber the eldar when they fight them

Every warzone involving nids from now on will involve, at some point, nids saying 'I must go, my planet needs me' and teleporting away before CSM and LSM show up.

Kinda this^^

Chaos feeds off of psychic energy and can't manifest in reality without it, some races just have safer methods of using it as a collective or gestalt process meaning that daemons cant actually lash out at individuals or manifest without permission.

Eldar and Humanity get fucked because they are groups of individuals and are much easier prey.

Necrons get by, simply by not having a soul to feed on and being able to shunt the warp entities back to their native dimension technologically. To them daemons are only about as threatening as a extra dimensional xeno race and are only a threat because humans and Eldar keep feeding them.

Do yourselves and the galaxy a favor and shed your soul. It's literally only a burden to a prosperous reality.

>Humanity defeats their own men of iron
>Xenos men of iron show up
Jesus Christ why won't it ever end

Just what the fuck is a soul in 40k anyways? Is it you but as a ghost? Psychic essence? Some sort of spiritual immune system?

Flesh is weak user, gotta get used to it.

Transcend or die.

It's literally just your psychic shadow, your thoughts and emotions manifested in an other dimension (reflections not the source).

Most people are like insignificant embers but psykers have giant burning bonfires.

everyone outnumbers space marines, that's literally the point of them

That's what you think, robo-globalist scum

Its the reflection of a living creature in the warp. Everyone's got one, and it gets imprinted with the strong thoughts and emotions you have. Psykers are unique in that their connection to the warp is a lot stronger, so they can draw warp energy through their souls, into their bodies and so into the material world. When you die, if your soul is particularly strong and you have the will to do it, it can maintain its cohesion after the material body dies. This doesn't usually end well.

So basically, if you sell your soul to Chaos you essentially become a doorway into the material world?

Can genestealers infect Orks in the new lore?

I think they can, but Orks tend to be really good at sniffing out unorkyness so I guess it never ends well for them.

>Chaos is infinitely powerful
You don't even understand the point of chaos, do you?

yes

I'm not sure if there's anything biological the genestealers are not able to fuck.

More or less. That's the thing about Chaos, just as material world creatures can imprint onto it, immaterial intelligences can imprint right back. Things we call Khornates are drawn to "anger" type emotional resonances, can identify where its coming from and basically force to become more like it, which in turn makes the creature its attached to much more prone to anger, which causes a feedback loop. Its much easier with psykers because the 'doorway' already exists and its a lot easier to push more stuff through it, both ways. The other thing to bear in mind is that when you sell your soul to Chaos you're going to be actively influencing the material world to be more receptive to certain ideals, drawing more demonic attention. It could be in really obvious ways, like barbaric blood sacrifices, but it could just as easily be influencing others to behave in receptive ways - encouraging subordinates to be more aggressive or manipulative, spreading fear and hopelessness, just generally making the world just that little bit shittier so that those around you are more willing to listen to that little voice they usually ignore.

Its also how demon possessions work. Your soul and the warp-side demon merge, which allows the demon to pump its essence into the real world using the host's body as a conduit.

So really, a soul isn't that essential to have in 40k?

Not having one isn't great. To be alive is to have a soul - if you haven't got one, at best you're going to viscerally upset everything around you and at worst you're going to kill everything as you drain all their otherworldly energy into the gaping wound in reality you represent. Whether its because absolutely everything else in the universe is horrified at your very existence or because you're cut off in a very real way from a sea of emotions and a meaningful connection with the infinite you tend to be have difficulties. You will make the universe just a tiny bit worse just by your presence.

These things.

TYRNIDS IZ MADE FOR EATIN' N' POOPIN'

Meh, needs more daemonic possession.

Doesn't 1d4chan's article on genestealers say the Hive Mind can't breed out the orkyness? If that's true then how is the Octarius War not a massive Tyranid loss?

>1d4chan

Well, there's your problem

Yes, apparently here already are genestealers in the Octarius system

So how do Blanks fit into all of this?

How does that even work? Do the genestealers just crawl out of the ground like regular Orks do?

Alright new rule if we are going to talk about genestealers infecting orkz we need to to refer to them as greenstealers

>I've say it before and I'll say it again, Orks are designed to be the Galaxies lymphocytes: white (or in this case green) blood cells.
Huh. Never thought of it that way.

Would really explain why Tuska Daemon-Killa wrecked the other resident 'virus' in the galaxy so hard as well, now that I think about it.

Don you think this conflict is going to be resolved by 8th? I can't see tyranids keeping up that war for more than a few years before saying "fuck it, there's easier food elsewhere" staying in one place for decades using really their thing

The way that tyranid feeding works, as long as more and more orks keep showing up, the eating just gets better and better.

More orks = More biomass, so keep 'em coming

Me, by not spending money on this shit.

...

Hi Carnac

>tfw when you're unironically a globalist
>tfw when you're unironically a transhumanist
>tfw when Alex Jones is afraid of you and the very real agenda you have
>tfw you want to unironically kill Alex Jones with mechanical claws and use his biomass to feed offspring

Uuuuuuugh, what a stupid fucking idea. "YA KNOW WHAT'D BE COOL?! IF WE REMOVED ANY MEANING WHATSOEVER FROM HIS SELF-SACRIFICE!"

Personally, I think the idea of perpetuals in general is fucking moronic too. Just some uncreative author trying to make their character moar speshul.

Hopefully in the next book Cawl is rounding them all up in the name of the Imperial war effort to build a Perpetual Motion Machine.

I'm all for it

Inspired by this pic, how many romans could a Hive Tyrant with monstrous rending claws and bone sword lashwhip take on before going down?

Orks. Nids cant Zerg against the eternal green sperg.

Hundreds, if not thousands, assuming these are completely fearless romans who will keep charging the tyrant even after seeing whole scores of their comrades slaughtered in seconds by a beast whose armor they can't even pierce with their weapons. Realistically a hive tyrant could route a whole army of romans alone just through its powers of the hive mind. Just standing in its presence would break most men, and that's without it even doing anything.

Neither side is truly trying to win. The tyranids will keep up the stalemate as long as they are making net gains since it supplies them with virtually endless biomass. Ghaz is probably using Octarius as an easy source of veterans, who grow quickly thanks to the constant WAAAAAGH going on

The Necrons are the only ones who know the true scale of the tyranid threat and think that their entire race awakened and united might not even be enough to stop them. They barely notice chaos unless directly attacked, and they don't give a shit about anyone else

Question

Are Orkz progressing in technology? Or has it remained the same the last 10k years or so minus the odd crazy invention?

Tyranids and Orks merge and become one faction.
The Tyranorks.

Their technology is coded into their dna. So they make the same things constantly just customise them.

So technology wise they are basically 99% completely capped?

They just keep making bigger and "better" versions of what they already have. Though we haven't seen their cap, they did get pretty close with the Beast. ork technology is surprisingly advanced in some fields. For instance, their teleportation, both long range and short, are unmatched. Allegedly Ghaz is able to teleport his entire fleet of over 1 million ships.

I think they progressively unlock more ideas but i don't know if their is a lore endpoint.
They start with melee weapons and progress to buggies, guns then onto forcefields and teleporters. There is a consistant goal to make giant gargant ork effigies that will eventually launch into space.

>lore endpoint

The Orks and I guess the Dark Eldar are both living their end game goals.

This was somehow implied when the war between the two factions began. Nids feed on ork's genetic material and implement it in their creation. Haven't got up to date reading lasts editions fluff but apparently (obviously) not so much has changed.
Maybe all the big monster that appeared post 4th are consequence of the ork material?

Don't forget that Orks don't have all the logistic problems with space travel that Imperials have when flying through the Shadow in the Warp.

>boss wez cannai see where we floiin dis rokk~! da shadoow in da waarp is makin tha humie light house all fuzzy and frag!
>uuh... lemme fink... just keep goin full ahead fer three days and den we drop ouuta da warp we'll crash into sumfin eventually.

There's one problem with that. The Old Ones put genetic precautions against that in Orkish genetic code.

Which means that Tyranid creatures based on Ork DNA are so fucking stupid they're almost too dumb to just stay alive by eating, drinking and breathing.

On a sidenote, that's also why the Adeptus Mechanicus still hasn't decoded the technological codexes that are implanted in the genetics of every Orkoid lifeform.

What WOULD an anti ork evolved Tyranid hive fleet look like anyways

Something that ate the spores, but the spores themselves are pretty good at avoiding that.

Blanks are soulless beings in the "everything alive hates you but doesn't necessarily die if you're nearby" category. Like psykers there is a scale of power, so at one end you have blanks that are like the inverse of someone who gets the occasional precognitive flash or is never gets really sick because they're subconsciously repairing themselves with biomancy, and at the other end you have abominations like Culexus assassins, who can be the equivalent to Alpha Psykers, Eldar Farseers and the like. Its possible to enhance their natural abilities too, or to put "shielding" on it so that they can interact with others without normals trying to kill themselves out of sheer soul-destroying terror.

>There is a consistant goal to make giant gargant ork effigies that will eventually launch into space.
>tfw Imperial Navy officer, seeing a gargant the size of a moon fly by
>somewhere inside sits the captain behind his steering wheel and the big red button

>the Hive Fleet decides that to fight the ork it must become the ork

>Nids eat so much ork biomass they get assimilated into the Waaagh! sphere and become Orks
>They still fight each other

>Gork and Mork peek their heads into the sky of Octarius
>"Told ya ladz we knowz where da best scrappin wuz"

I say the best path for nids would be to develop their psychic biomorphs, especially the ones intended to fill or even cut the warp out and fight the ork by negating them their collective waaagh powers.

then a constant influx of toxic and devourer swarms, to debilitate the enemy horde and replenish biomorphs.
pyrovores seem strangely useful for this since they can both digest corpses and purge spores with the flamer.

I dunno if that works. IIRC, the Waaagh is similar to the Warp but (completely) different.

Cutting Orks off from the Warp might not even have an effect.

Don't be an idiot. The Waaagh! is the Ork minds in the Warp.

It probably isn't going to outright kill or damage the orks, but they would start suffering the effects of being near soullessness on top of the absence of the benefits the waaagh field has on their tech and psychology, I assume.

No. The Waaagh is something different.

Remember, the Orks were developed by the Old Ones as a way to mitigate the errors they made in developing the Eldar.

>stunted emotions that only allow for joy, anger, hate avoids the emotional despair that eldar are prone to when loved ones die in battle
>alternative use of psyker abilities through the waaagh instead of the warp takes the pressure off the chaotic changes that the emotional turmoil of the eldar caused in the warp
>inherent technological knowledge implanted in the genetics of orks allows for a techbase that doesn't rely on the warp, warpstone and psyker abilities, like the eldar

Unfortunate for the Old Ones, the (Kr)ork were developed too late, and the combined pressure of Necrons and the newly born Chaos did them in.

>warp>psyker>psychic power
>warp>hive mind>psyker>psychic power
>warp>waaagh>psyker>psychic power
it's the same shit, just collected in a localised repository rather than taken raw
cut off the source and the repository doesn't fill

>Don't be an idiot. The Waaagh! is the Ork minds in the Warp.
If that were the case, the nids Shadow in the Warp should completely destroy the Orks' ability to function as a faction every time they cross paths, just like it fucks up the other race that's extremely psychic, the Eldar.

Thing is, that's not what happens at all.

Hell, Shadow in the Warp should, by all accounts, keep Orks from around the galaxy from reaching Octarius/the planet Octaria to 'get in on the fight'.

Except more and more Orks are a) hearing the psychic call of 'OI! GITZ!! WE'Z GOT US A NEW BRAWL GOIN' DOWN OVA HERE!' from the collective excitement of the local Ork Madboyz in the sector, which is so powerful/loud it can be heard from all corners of the galaxy inside the Warp proper, and b) more and more Orks keep showing up, nid 'Warp blocker' be damned.

>It probably isn't going to outright kill or damage the orks, but they would start suffering the effects of being near soullessness on top of the absence of the benefits the waaagh field has on their tech and psychology, I assume.
One would think that... except for the fact all Ork technology is still works just fine (case in point: Ghaz shows up on Octaria with his fuck-huge fleet and is still able to use his MegaArmour like normal, demonstrated by the fact a Malwoc swallowed him whole and then he clawed its way out of his stomach immediately afterward).

Fuck, even Ork psykers don't get affected by the nids in the fluff. Why do I say this? Well it turns out ol' Thraka's developed psyker abilities (or at least telepathy), that's so powerful he's communicating with his subordinates back on Armageddon through his dreams. You'd think it'd be dulled by the Shadow in the Warp, but nope! Apparently the big green bastard is such a latent psyker he can communicate with people in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SECTOR.

Now how did a purple Gargant with six limbs not raise any eye brows?

That should have warranted some Mek putting a foot in someone's rear end shouldn't it?

And when it says "six limbs" does that mean the thing has six arms plus it's feet or four arms and the fifth and sixth are the feet?

>If that were the case
But that IS the case, it is made clear by the authors that practically everything related to psychic powers stems from the warp

the fact that this doesn't play out logically is due to the writers being hacks

Well, it was purple, so they probably thought it was some sneaky Gargant...

Curious, but is it possible the Orks in Octarius were loosing because the bulk of their best units were on Armageddon or in the surrounding sectors causing havoc?

I remember it said that the previous warlord who ruled the Octarius Domain was fighting on Armageddon, leading me to believe that he took the bulk of his military might with him.

And is there any Tyranid creature that is a match for a Gargant in a fight? I've always been under the impression a Gargant would ruin a Heirophants day.

>Now how did a purple Gargant with six limbs not raise any eye brows?
are you asking how purple passed unnoticed?

I'm starting to think the orks aren't actually able to see purple wavelengths, but theorise on the existence of the colour from time to time

>they probably thought it was some sneaky Gargant...

It would be funny to see a purple Gargant with six limbs tip toeing about and the Imperials failing to notice it.

In fact, that sounds like a Kommando Gargant.

>Now how did a purple Gargant with six limbs not raise any eye brows?
Silly humie! Purple is da sneakiest coloah! 'course da boyz didn't notice it!

As for six limbs, depending on the size of the gargant in question, it was probably some 'Four-armed Emperor' genestealer type deal, and Orks probably wouldn't look twice since "If dat mek thinks he can get four arms on a gargant and not fuck things up, who am I to say no?"

>the fact that this doesn't play out logically is due to the writers being hacks
>Trying to apply logic to the race who's Waaagh! field literally bends reality to their beliefs
I think I found the problem. You're trying to use logic against a race that could (in theory) cut down a redwood tree, stick some wheels on it, paint it red and have a 'wooden bus' Trukk that goes faster than NASCAR for a near-infinite distance, without ever having to install a physical engine.

Seriously, Ork Waaagh! field can cause some straight-up 'Wait, they did WHAT?!' moments, even among Ork players, simply for how ridiculous it can be sometimes.

>Curious, but is it possible the Orks in Octarius were loosing because the bulk of their best units were on Armageddon or in the surrounding sectors causing havoc?
Yeah, the original Overfiend of Octarius heading over to Armageddon with his best boyz and leaving a void that got filled by 'whats-his-git' might have something to do with the sector empire's reduced strength.
Which makes the fact they held out for so long on Octaria (official name of the empire's capital world according to the Waaagh Ghazzy supplement) before Thraka burst through the Shadow of the Warp with his zog-off huge fleet to get in on the action all the more amusing to me.