/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General

Now for a Khan victory...

Increase her inf to normal levels, and maybe she might have a chance.

I wonder if FFG would postpone releasing the first pack that triggers rotation until after Worlds?

Inevitability lock is pretty strong, and unlike Siphon spam which can run out of steam or you can crawl out of, you can get the lock somewhat more reliably, is probably the reason.

It will probably be announced at Worlds, with a light show and everything.

Fancy

I do wonder if we would finally see a Shaper win Worlds? A shame most of them don't include desperados though if that were the case.

Come to think of it, that pack in question should have been announced by now?

Yeah, very much

Yeah, after the 3rd pack is usually when we get the new cycle announcements, though this is possibly the most important cycle for the game, so they might be making sure they get the announcement right and try and pre-empt as many questions as they can

Playing a Persephone deck against a deck that is basically all ETR.

Very not fun.

How does one even start building a deck? What cards should I choose first?

Those that matter for your gameplan

What side?

Usually for me it goes:

> (optional) cards you absolutely want in the deck
Maybe you have a main concept you want your deck to do, put those in first. Theoretically you could do this last too, by finding a good existing decklist and swapping cards out to bring the concept into being. If you're starting from scratch though, better this first so other cards naturally supplement it.

> cards that help your main win condition
Corp side, are you scoring out normally or FA? Are you aiming to kill by out tracing and double scorch? Runner side, do you aim for the remote or hit centrals? Do you make runs easier to do or highten their quality? There are other existing win conditions than the above four, look around at other people's decks and mayhaps you find one to your liking.

> cards that supplement the main win condition or provide other win conditions
How do you plan on getting the tools for your win condition? Do you need to protect those tools? Can you fit in a different path to the win condition, or a new condition altogether?

> money cards
Very important. Once you think you have enough, add a few more.

> tech cards
Meta dependant, this is where you start cutting cards that aren't as reliable, useful, or synergistic as you thought would be, and start adding cards you need to either turn off the opponent's win condition, or protect yours.

> fun cards
If you still somehow have extra deck slots, than either cram in more money, include more tech cards, or whatever fun card you think could work/want to play with.

>Fancy

>I'm so fancy
>You already know
>I'm in the fast lane
>From NA to Neotokyo
>Can't you taste the score?
>Remember my name
>'Bout to go

So I was reading a meta article, and today I learned that a deck that plays pic related can actually be good - more than good, it can be a National winner (admittedly a bit conditional, with lots of counterplay, but still)

netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/43233/cold-ones-us-nationals-1st-place-undefeated-

I was waiting on someone to take something similar to the win.

Nice that it happened.

I think it sets a fair precedent for most """"bad cards"""" to have at least some shot - I mean, you probably won't see Salvage doing anything, ever, but I think most bad cards aren't really bad, just niche

>you probably won't see Salvage doing anything, ever

On top of the card itself, certainly not in the competitive meta given its short time left.

I remember having a few interesting games with it early (C&C time). I remember a game against Exile especially.

The needed Tracer power reep ensures it has very little chance to shine.

Actually, talk about design challenge: how would you salvage Salvage?

>Actually, talk about design challenge: how would you salvage Salvage?
Salvage is the triple or even quadruple threat - it's a code gate below 3, it's a tracer, it's advancable only while rezzed (and only worthwhile if advanced), and it's trace 2 without having much impact

As said, that's quad shittyness

The "advance only while rezzed" stuff I feel was a nerf from the early stages in that design - you had BWBI without the click or something, and it looked like ice would get really scary as it built up and up, with almost no hope in stopping it.
Anyone who's ever seen Swarm with a few counters will know that that shit, while a ballache to get out, can be totally devastating (unless your opponent is using Shrike)

Then you get a tag in Weyland, practically a death sentence, so it can't have too high a cost

It just comes together to be bad

A salvaged Salvage would probably have more going for it from the get go - like a mini mausolus

Against an unlinked runner? Just play Salvage, advance it a bunch with NBN bullshit methods of advancing anything, then ARYABHATA TECH the Runner to 0 credits. As long as he isn't playing Yog, or parasite, you'd be fine. But those are the usual complains.

>As long as he isn't playing Yog, or parasite,

Or tag-me.

Actually good call on NBN. That good old tradition of yellow being better at playing jade cards better than Weyland...

I liked Simone Diego. But The Root overshadowed her at every level.

I don't know, being an upgrade had it's own advantages; the opportunity costs for both players are different.

The Root was meant for decks going more lateral - and it's basically trash-on-sight, while Diego was more for concentrated decks with a single remote for scoring - and if the corp install her and advance ICE twice, knowing whether to run now to trash her or wait for that agenda to reach the server was a decision for the runner.

It's true, but my experience with them was that Simone Diego was trashed more often than the Root. Besides, being able to both rez and install cards with it is huge.

Not even gonna dispute The Root is the better card, but I do think there is a narrow track for miss Diego too. Probably not competitive, but you can make it work.

I'm going to make that Nihongai Grid, Shiro, Kitsune +recursion SNARE abuse deck.

I swear I will.

Maybe in that Gagarin upgrade spam deck? Worth noting that advancing Oaktown Renovation using either The Root or her gives the full 2 credits too.

>seeing this (and other janky stuff) win Worlds insted of Desperado

To be fair, the deck is basically a meta deck, and the player himself admits it's not as viable anywhere else. Wonder if the usual competitive players are aware of what it would mean to have Desperado in the winning decklist and build around it.

>Worth noting that advancing Oaktown Renovation using either The Root or her gives the full 2 credits too.
That's an excellent point

Actually, with Simone she makes her money back straight away if you IAA Oaktown

The Root seems a bit trickier, given it needs its own server (and you might want BBG), but is the more useful card

I'm still annoyed that Full Immersion RecStudio is NBN though

I do recall there was an old joke about someone taking a deck with all the 1 and 2-ofs to Worlds and everyone just letting them win so they could be in a champ deck

Can you even make a deck with all the 1s and 2s?

No, too many 2-of cards, speciallly programs, it won't fit in any kind of influence.
With all the singles though? That can happen.

I shouldn't be so hard to include a couple Desperado in the next Worlds Champion deck. Specially when it helps in trashing assets. Come on!

Not with all of them, no, and probably not a deck that is that viable. Other than the 1-ofs though there are a few decent 2-of targets to get a third copy of:
Wyldside (was it in the 2016's deck?)
Bank Job
Modded
Akamatsu Mem Chip
Magnum Opus
SacCon
Neural EMP
Scorched Earth

You know, it always irked me that Hunter and MMC are 2-of. And Corporate troubleshooter is a single.

Ehh, it irks me more that Security Subcontract is a 1-of honestly, closing off any early deckbuilding potential. It's not even that strong to merit being one, unlike the consoles and stuff like Ice Carver or Corporate Troubleshooter, the latter of which could've been oppressive at multiples in a single core meta.

Ice Carver I understand, you can only have 1 of them active and the core pool seems specifically designed to avoid the "multiples uniques" situation, SecSub seems more like a mid-late game card, so including just a single one is justified.
It's true that multiples Troubleshooters might be oppressive though, although the card is fairly balanced around the players' credit pool, so it isn't super oppressive either.
And anyway, HB have Archived Memories to recur it.

You'd actually want more than one if you're relying on it in your deck, even with the multiple uniques thing (Wyldside is a 2-of by the way), so that you can find it and get it into play faster. Both, say, Ice Carver and Aesops, as well as SanSan and Corporate Troubleshooter are relatively strong that it's logical to put them at a 1-of: so that players will buy multiple core sets to get more of them.

SecSub gives you a lot of credits per click, but when you consider that you're trashing a rezzed piece of ice (not even just any card, but specifically ice), it still evens out to less than 2 per click. And you do want to find it sooner than later so that you can replace your Ice Walls with Hadrian's faster, plus as an asset it's bound to get trashed faster than you can find it anyway.

It'd be nice if deconstructing and reconstructing your board state could end up being an archetype. It'll probably be some sort of rush deck that removes Vanillas for Quandaries or something, though stacking ice is probably better in the long run.

>SanSan and Corporate Troubleshooter are relatively strong that it's logical to put them at a 1-of
>so that players will buy multiple core sets to get more of them.

Or as a balancing RNG mechanic for single core. Which works decently well.

>SecSub gives you a lot of credits per click, but when you consider that you're trashing a rezzed piece of ice (not even just any card, but specifically ice), it still evens out to less than 2 per click

The purpose, more than strict efficiency, is giving you a way to go back from low econ to kill rnage by getting rid of ICE that plays no role anymore because of bad pub.
Hardly anyone ever cared about the balancing bad pub aspect of the game though, as far as I can tell.

I think reconstructing your board state is part of Jinteki and Weyland color pie.
Jinteki has all the Mutate and swapping cards, particularly ICE.
Weyland changes its own board state by advancing and patching cards. Morph and the new ICE are suited for that.

Shapers don't really need a third 2-off of their core set stuff that badly, not when lots of important stuff come from their big box.

>implying it isn't for the money
The RNG thing is a fine point though I suppose.

I don't know about getting rid of ice solely due to bad pub, I guess if stacking cheap ice was a thing then you could rely on SecSub to get credits back while you switch in new ice. Sounds like it could be a plan, especially since we have a decent suite now (Vanilla, Quandary, Owl). 3 of each, 2 expensive taxing ice of each type, then 2 Rainbows? Still, doesn't merit SecSub being a 1-of.

Oh yeah, completely forgot Jinteki got some tools for using board state deconstruction to their advantage, hopefully it takes off.

True, *both* of their big boxes even. Would be nice to have a third Modded or MOpus though.

...

tfw my meta is so cheap, small, and far-off a hub that we use championship decks cards as promos for prizes.

...

>implying it isn't for the money

The two propositions are not mutually exclusive.

>then you could rely on SecSub to get credits back while you switch in new ice.

Having used it in single Core, the purpose was more to get back that SEA Source threat money in the bank. Which often was better protection than ICE.

Pic related could be cool for that.
And might make Mutate usable, which is nicer than ever with the likes of Chiyashi and DNA Tracker

Mutate already have a few combos, like heritage committee

Then there's the choice of expensive cool ICE (no pun) and decent cheap ICE you can sacrifice without too much of a second thought (Cortex Lock or Mind Game come to mind).

Should they errata NEXT Opal as

>NEXT Opal gains "[subroutine] You may install 1 card from HQ, paying all costs." for each rezzed piece of NEXT ice.

Because as is, taken literally it a practical mess. Have to take the corp's word that there is no card in HQ that can be installed.
(And honestly I strongly believe it was meant to be played that way, but some people will insist on playing cards verbatim even when it makes little sense).

TD is nice, but nothing too earth shattering for them. That said a full bleed mopus would be awesome to behold I agree.

That's not a bad idea really.

We already have a forced card search in Watchtower, so forced installs as a sub isn't that big a leap. Might be a new suite of ice actually. And if you're running HQ and do access an installable card, just call the judge and win the round via illegal board state.

...

That, Sec Testing, Aaron, Legwork, Special Order, (non-AA) Femme, Passport/Abagnale, and of course Desperado would be awesome to have as full bleeds if Andromeda can win her third Worlds before rotation appears...

Its hard to see Crim have any better chances post-rotation.

Not even Geist?

But then you can't always prove it, that's the issue.

You run an Opal on Archives, the corp installs nothing, then next turn it installs a card in a remote.

Was there cheating, or did it draw that card this turn?

Is he even that good nowadays? Even that guy who won some tourney with him admitted he's not great vs Moon decks.

Nearly all Crim have a hard time against Moon. Probably that DLR Andy might have a chance?

Point, his doing well was before Moon and the MWL

Pol op might help against Moon, but I think there'd be the issue that if you wanted it to be effective and didn't just want her to get Friends'd you'd actually have to let her build up counters for a bit before triggering the Plop

Have anybody tried if Archive Interface shuts down the Moon? I mean, if you get rid of Friends and Biotic, what do they have left?

Maybe double medium and max e-strike as mentioned by current world champ?

A shame there were no top crims in the recent 2 championships.

For corp side Terminal Directive sets that force you to add cards into your deck, do they count into your deck limit? For example, if it forces you to go over 49, do you need to add 2 more sgenda points?

From page 3 of the campaign rules:

>When building, the Corp player must choose three fewer cards and 6 fewer agenda points. The corp player will receive three agendas worth 2 points each at the start of the camapign

I mean midgame set reveal cards, not Evidence Collection. Like Trojan.

My bad. We did count those into deck limit. Allowing either removal of other cards, or addition of agenda points between games.

Yaknow what would help against Moon? Rumor Mill.

That's certainly very 'helpful' for a faction strapped for influence.

I wish pic related wasn't so retarded to use.

Though Moon is instant speed, so not all that useful.

Well yes, that was part of the point, though I suppose sarcasm doesn't really translate. It was more a comment about how Friends should also be on The List but for *some* reason they couldn't be bothered to touch that one.

PolOp is fast enough. Run Hq, install and use PolOp. No window to react unless preemptively trashing it after running HQ.

A solution which works exactly once most of the time, making it not nearly as practical in execution as it is in theory in a world where Interns and Friends exist.

If you are looking for a permanent solution, that's anarch, Kim with archives interface and 2 mediums. Criminals are opportunistics, once is exactly what they need.

Not for things like Moon.

I should try this gun again, but PolOp is just so much fun and unexpected, and AA is gorgeous.

Yeah, it is nice. I got some free when I bought some datapacks one time

Does miss Moon look like valid Councilman target?

Also still disappointed they didn't word System Outage

>Whenever the Corp draws 1 or more cards, he or she loses 1 [Credit] if it is it's turns mandatory draw.

>if it ISN'T it's turn's mandatory draw.

Shoot me.

Not really. You play it and they just rez Moon at the end of your turn. Even if you hit her they just rerez her at the start of their own turn and mass install away. About the only things that can *really* do anything to her are a surprise Pol Op or Rumor Mill.

Mmm, that's a common problem for councilman. Maybe interdiction-councilman?

You think rotation will help Exile?

I don't think rotation will help him at all, but you never know he might eventually get the support he needs in future packs.

But overall his ability just isn't impactful enough. It's not like Shapers have ever needed any help drawing a card.

I keep saying it, but Interdiction+Councilman was fair and workable. It's too bad about Rumor Mill...

That holds true for a lot of assets, but here I'm thinking: Moopn needs to be rezzed to gather counters. If you prevent the rez via Councilman, even if the corp rezzes her at the beginning of you turn, she has no counters, and you can safely trash her.

>It's not like Shapers have ever needed any help drawing a card

Free draws is always good, I'd say the problem is more that the trigger is extremely narrow, overlapping with other IDs that do something similar, but way easier to capitalize on (Kate, Kaplan) and with cards that would trigger specifically Exile's, but not the other similar IDs' (which is a very tough design proposition in itself), cannot be allowed to develop unchecked - we've suffered enough already of recursion being too good.

There's an uphill battle for Exile. Especially now that heap removal have developed corp side.

Yeah, even the self recurring conspiracy breakers have not been enough to put him over the edge. You just don't need to install them enough and set ups that do so are wasteful because of their cost.

The ideal Exile card would therefore self install multiple times per turn at a low cost and could be trashed to either Aesop's or trash itself as a benefit.

Maybe something like:

Ancilla: Program - Mod 1 install, 0 memory
Install Ancilla only on an icebreaker.
[trash]: Host icebreaker has +1 strength for the remainder of the run.
Whenever you make a successful run on a central server, you may install Ancilla from your heap, paying all costs.

A movable personal touch. Has a minor benefit as opposed to just paying for efficient icebreakers, but it's really there for recursion. Exile gets more out of it than Haley or Kate cause he stacks when you install more than one.

I like the base idea.

You know what could be interesting? Free trigger of the subroutine-breaking effect on hosted Icebreaker, instead of strength boost.

So, say, you trash it while installed on Leviathan, you can break three subroutines for zero credits.

Maybe a bit too good because of how well it synergizes with conspiracy breakers. But then I like the idea of a support card that could give value to those 2+ credits-for-break Icebreakers.

The question is which tier Friends will end up in?

How would it help him exactly? Shapers in general are going to lose RDI, QT, Indexing, Test Run, and lol motivation. Oh, and Scheherazade just for him.

Poor guy can't catch a break.

The wording on that could be awkward, but its a good idea. Probably better out of Criminal, they have a lot of batch breaking breakers.

Something like [trash]: Use a paid ability on host icebreaker which breaks ice subroutines.

With that wording, you could also use it on Faust, Endless Hunger, and the power counter breakers. But limiting it too inefficient credit cost breakers would take even more words.

>Scheherazade

Going to miss that card so much.

>[trash]: Use a paid ability on host icebreaker which breaks ice subroutines, ignoring any credit costs.