8e Tau Discussion Part 3: Drones are People Too

yep! our own personal droneseers

Someone is taking hypothetical combos from here to meme about elsewhere

Played my first two games tonight, vs Orks and Dark Eldar. Pretty convincing victories in both.

BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Cadre Fireblade – 42pts
1x Cadre Fireblade – 42pts
TROOPS
10x Strike Team – 80pts
10x Strike Team – 80pts
5x Strike Team – 40pts
FAST ATTACK
5x Pathfinders (Pulse accelerator) - 48pts
5x Pathfinders (Pulse accelerator) - 48pts

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Longstrike (Railgun, 2 Gun Drones) – 191pts
ELITES
1x Ghostkeel (Ion Raker, 2 Flamers, Adv Targeting, 2*Stealth drone) - 167pts
1x Ghostkeel (Ion Raker, 2 Flamers, Adv Targeting, 2*Stealth drone) - 167pts
3 x Stealth Suits - 90pts

995pts – 7CP

Thoughts:

-Buffed Strike Team blob is terrifying.
-Stealth Suits in cover are a bitch to get rid of.
-Ghostkeels don't afraid of shooting.
-Markerlights are fine. Getting 5 on a target is a bonus, not a necessity.
-BS4+ is fine when you have weight of fire and rerolling 1s.
-Flamers are awesome.
-Photon grenades save lives.
-Railgun Longstrike is amazing, even moreso as an HQ slot enabling a detachment

I mostly used Stealth Team and Ghostkeels to absorb charges and murder people with overwatch and falling back in the following turn.
Watching someone charge a unit of 20 Ork Boyz into a 2x Flamer Ghostkeel and Strike Team blob supporting fire is hilarious.

I'm really digging the way the army plays, baiting charges and setting up Strike Team (and presumably Breacher Team) kill boxes feels exactly how I imagined Tau to play. This is Kau'yon motherfuckers.

I'm curious to see how Tau will perform against strong shooting armies, will need to use terrain well to overcome it as Fire Warriors really can't stand up to firepower.

were their lists good?

thoughts on upgrade longstrikes gun drones to something better? he gets +1 to wound vehicles and monsters, and at S5 that means wounding most vehicles and monsters on a 4+ with SMS or burst cannons.

Burst cannons are strictly worse than the Gun drones. same amount of shots, and the gun drone restrictions don't apply when embarked. Plus they're also S5 already.

SMS could be worthwhile to help prevent people from sneaking up on him while he blasts stuff at a range, but it's very expensive and only really useful in comparison to the other two in terms of range and ignoring walls

Waste of points imo, maybe if you're worried about a deep strike meta.
In these games he was under no threat whatsoever and could freely fly on top a building if any dickheads got too close.

Ork list was pretty thrown together, mostly dudespam that got wiped out my Rapid Fire FW blob.

DE list was fun to play against, Power from Pain timebomb with paper vehicles.
Ghostkeel -2 to hit was amazing for soaking heavy weapons.

Cont.

May main takeaway is this: the ability to soak charges and set up another round of rapid fire and overwatch is absolutely brutal.

Also, lack of knowledge and rule checking slowed the game down, but I don't really see 2000pt games working for tournaments. These 1000pt lists were fairly large, I can't imagine playing a game with double the amount of stuff in a timely manner. 1500 will probably be more manageable.

Just my 2 cents after a couple of small games, but there it is.

Out of interest why did you use so many duplicated load-outs, Only models you had? Going for combos? Thought these were the best options for their roles?

The reason I ask is in my head the start of an edition seems to be the perfect time to try out everything. so here I feel its a shame a 3rd of the points are spent on backups as it were.

Would be interesting to get your perspective

Id rather run a 2nd hammerhead because of Longstrike synergy than a 2nd Ghostkeel

Not sure how to make that work with detachments

Nice to see some lists doing good work
Any units being stinkers?

smart missile systems will shoot at the same speed as the rail gun and will have better range and hit targets he can't see.

SMS is fantastic. but gundrones if you want to be cheap. since if you're still alive and its the last turn you can deploy them to be 3 models near a point instead of 1.

well a battalion would allow for up to 3 heavy supports so no problem there.

Sky ray, since its essentially just a vehicle hull to bring 6 mortal wounds to the table. its just expensive without any of its old tricks and really doesn't fill any rolls that other units can't do better.

especially since it can't be buffed by long strike either so it doesn't even have synergies with a longstrike armor list.

Sky Ray really needed a Velocity tracker to be more worthwhile at the bare minimum, since then it could at least be Skyfire Markerlights

Seeker missiles being trash is also a problem problem.

i get peoples complaints, but don't underestimate on call mortal wounds, especially with certain units losing effectiveness with damage. doing that one extra damage to some flying monstrosity and slowing it down could be all you needed to get away from said horror.

A velocity tracker or target lock either or.

Is it halal to name your commander Shas'bot?

Not dissing on seeker missiles, but there are plenty of other platforms that give you seeker missiles, along with a more useful body. Skyray is the densest collection, but 6 seekers really isn't worth the cost of the skyray itself.

That's Shas'o'bot, to you.

agreed. its shame i like the look of the sky ray but it just doesn't do anything well enough.

and as i mentioned above, because it doesn't work with Longstrikes hammerhead bonus, hammerheads can fire seeker missiles far more accurately in certain cases.

this

its Shas'O'bot. gotta have your commanders rank in there.

Yeah. If the Sky Ray had a Velocity Tracker, Target Lock, and got the bonus from Longstrike, it'd be much more worthwhile.

Then, it would be a mobile Markerlight platform that would fire at BS 3+ against most things 2+ against flyers, and be even more accurate even when damaged if Longstrike was with them.

Right now it feels like you could better spend the points on a Devilfish with some pathfinders in it

How much damage should seeker missiles and destroyers do?
Aside from infinite of course

as they're costed right now they're fine

but d3 and 3 with a price increase would be fine too.

1d3 and 1d6, respectively

or then keep them as they are, but remove the one-use only

I still feel like having them just deal twice as many mortal wounds to Vehicles and Monsters would suffice.

6 Seeker missiles for 2 damage each is enough to take out lighter vehicles easily and heavier vehicles with some luck. 4 destroyer missiles for 4 each is more than enough to sheer chunks out of a knight.

They might need to be more expensive in that case though, or be limited so you can't fire as many in a turn.

I'm expecting the Skyray will get an overhaul of some sort when our codex comes out.

I just read the hammerhead gunship rules and there's STILL no reason to take burst cannons instead of drones or smart missiles. Why even have em there???

SMS has better range and ignore LoS, compared to gun drones.

yes sms is great

he's specifically talking about the burst cannons

>tfw one of my 4 hammerheads has burst cannons glued to it since i bought it off of a friend
Fuck i'm going to have to keep paying that tax to satisfy my wysiwyg autism and its going to be even more painful now.

Oh, you're right, I mis-read.

Yeah, rip burst cannons.

Most efficient combos in my opinion. The Ghostkeel flamers could be switched out I guess but they worked extremely well in overwatch killzones.

A 2nd hammerhead wouldn't have been much use to me here I think.
At 1000pts there weren't enough viable targets to make good use of their weaponry that a Ghostkeel or infantry couldn't deal with well enough.
The Ghostkeels were also key to absorbing a lot of attention, either through the opponent missing shots with D6 heavy weapons that would have crippled a Hammerhead quickly, or through baiting charges.

So... thinking about converting a coldstar. I happen to have some piranha parts about and remember the aries from gundam wing?

Here's a rough and dirty shop job.

That is terrifying.

Aren't two on the shoulders enough? Or is the suit "surfing" a piranha?

maybe if enough people whine gw will do something

Just on the shoulders might work
Four though...
>i am become hideous, eyesore among men

Yeah, it's not quite right, but I want to do away with the legs, make it very clearly an air based thing, can barely land in gravity.

Like this sucker.

Imma sleep on it and try again.

Perhaps it would be better to use the drone-sized reactors Razorshark. I believe you don't use them if you build a Sunshark instead. You may consider these simply because they are smaller.

who excited for FW indexes
I wanna see the mantas numbers

I'm curious if there will be any reference or effect of our deepstrike now directly involving a Manta fluff-wise.

allowing any suits and vehicles to deep strike closer to enemy units along the mantas flight path as a low altitude drop. allows suits to get into melta range.

I know its not much but its essentially just what the manta's doing, just instead of low orbit or or atmospheric, its dropping them right on top of the enemy position.

Please give me guesses on taunar stats
I wanna see the craziness

>By paying the low price of 1000 GBP
>You may deepstrike the manta with your other units. Shove aside enemy models if needed to make room

>Any enemy models shoved off the board in this fashion are destroyed

Perfect
Needs some poor wording somewhere cause FW writing

And glaring typos.

And the current AoS favourite, the wrong keywords.

Not really up to you, man. I play Tau too and I agree kindof. My 2K list folded into around 1650, so it's easier to field a 1.5K army I think. But I was talking to my Black Templars friend and his 2K army ballooned to 2.6K.

We've still yet to playtest our armies, first game might be tomorrow but it really depends.

Forgive my idiocy but how do you "Absorb Charges" ?

Usa a unit that can survive the enemy charge, then fall back on your turn and shoot the gits.

Ah right, my bad. Yeah that sounds dope, so you essentially park Strike team blobs next to each other with fireblades and stealthsuits a bit in front?

"Tanking" charges might be a better term.

All battlesuits got a pretty solid buff to survivabilty in 8e, making them able to take a charge with minimal casualties and be able to retreat the next turn to open the charging unit up to shooting.

Stealth suits are quite good at this; good save, decent toughness, -1 to hit (-2 if a supporting unit hits a photon grenade in overwatch) and any nearby drones can take wounds.

A unit of 2/3 Flamer crisis suits would be pretty good at this too.

You could also screen with drones or kroot but they have vulnerabilities to Morale tests that battlesuits can largely ignore.

That's fantastic. I use a lot of stealthsuits and I WAS actually considering running flamers on my ghostkeel now. I don't like the randomness but they DO autohit in overwatch which should be something to keep in mind.

>Planes will have their guns modified to be assault versions with shorter range!
>Razorshark quad ion: heavy4 or heavy d6
>on a model that is forced to move
Fuck this shit. They put the same summer trainee that wrote the 6e ork codex to do the 8e tau index it seems. It's full of these idiocies.

I'm kinda bummed outflank got fucked up, I loved using HQs with infantry and stealthsuits to make a "coming out of the walls" list with lots of ambushes. It was incredibly fun, gave me excellent board control and kept the opponent on their toes. They think some objective is uncontested near their deployment zone when suddenly rail rifles up their ass and it's under my banner.

Also don't like the Fireblade buff being half-range. I specifically fielded one for the long-range wall of bullets, didn't pick ethereals on purpose. But I suppose if the style of the army works better with shorter range, then I'll give it a chance.

I would if they had bothered to spend 15 minutes writing down rules, no matter how shitty, for the knarlocs.

Given the short range of the ghostkeels main weapon I can see flamers being a viable option. Putting yourself in range to shoot 18" leaves you open to a charge, and flamers do quite nicely in that situation. Either the enemy takes a risky 8" charge (~42%) or they take 4d6 auto hits.

Is the fusion collider even good? It used to be shit due to small blast but I don't like the randomness of former-blasts. I'd rather take the Raker with ATS, guaranteed 6 shots at S7 AP-2 and 1 damage each. Seems loads more reliable and if you take dual fusion blasters, you get enough anti-tank there.

How many buffs can we theoretically give Fire Warriors?

Offensive
1. Fireblade Cadre to give them +1 shot - how many FW can we fit in that 6" buff range?
2. Commander declaring Kayuon to let them reroll hits
3. 5 marker lights for +1 BS to one target
4. Darkstrider can buff one unit to reduce enemy toughness by 1. (Will only matter vs T3, T5, T10)
5. Pulse drone for +6" range

Defensive
1. Guardian Drone for 6+ invuln
2. Ethereal for 6+ ignore

Am I missing anything?

I have a question guys.

If a firewarrior unit gets charged, after owervatch and fighting it can retreat the next turn but it CANNOT shoot. It can however charge the other unit or shoot in the next turn (if it doesn't get charged again, with another overwatch).

If a crisis unit (a FLY unit) gets charged, it can retreat the next turn and it can shoot the unit that charged it, then charge it itself or wait for the next turn and shoot them again (if it doesn't get charged again, meaning another overwatch)

Did I get this right?

You can't advance, shoot or charge if you fall back

Flying units can shoot after falling back

It's not a direct buff on the unit itself, but an open-topped building (tidewall or imperial bastion) will keep them immune from harm - including charges - until the building is destroyed. Much better than the 4+ cover save in 7th.

Ho shit, I forgot drones are no longer attached so they give buffs to anyone that applies. 36" range for Pulse Rifles would be dope as fuck and makes Fireblades better, since it'll work at 18" not 15.

I'm really struggling to work out the point of pulse carbines on fire warriors now. Is there any reason at all to take them?

Is it worth it to do a bayonet charge in case you clearly see that the next turn, he will charge you?

Thanks!!

I guess if you insist on moving them each turn perhaps? Double the shots and 24" with a pulse accelerator. Even with an accelerator, carbines double the output at 6" longer range. Considering now charges still move you and mobility got increased across the board, they might have a good use.

City fights.

Assault weapons can advance and shoot (at -1 to hit).

With a pulse drone:

FW with Carbines can move 6", advance D6", and shoot 2 shots at 24".
A commander can use Montka to remove the hit penalty.

FW with Rifles can move 6" and shoot 1 shot at 36", or 2 shots at 18"

Rifles are usually better but not strictly better, since there are some situations where you'll want the extra 6+D6" threat range on Carbines.

what I don't like about the HQ buffs is the bubble itself. It kinda forces you to waste expensive leaders as buffbots when their statlines can be better used with stronger weaponry elsewhere. You have to have a Commander within 6" for anyone to benefit from the Kauyon/Mont'ka abilities, which means he's going to be elsewhere drilling priority targets with heavier guns.

NOT going to be elsewhere*

You can bring multiple commanders and position them strategically

Commanders are seriously amazing and you should bring 2+ to every game

I just bought shas'o r'alai to use either as himself or as a commander proxy. I'll magnetize him to give him his weapon or a classic commander's weapons. It's such a cool model!!

I already bring 4 HQs though. Shadowsun, Darkstriders, a Fireblade and a regular Commander. Doesn't seem to make sense to me fielding multiple Shas'Os from a fluff perspective.

Can you declare a Kauyon or Mont'ka once per commander or total?

>Can you declare a Kauyon or Mont'ka once per commander or total?
Total

Shadowsun and Farsight can do it a 2nd time

That's what living FAQ will be for!

I see. So you can't really get much tactical advantage out of them, just that you can field untargetable superelite crisis suits.

>deploy Shadowsun
>fly her 3+ invuln shield drones to something more valuable, like a riptide

How can we abuse this

I am. I have Tetras and XV9s. Also want to get Remora and/or Barracudas, as also Drone Sentry Turrets

I finished building a custom remora a few weeks ago, now I can't bloody use it for another few weeks.

Do you think they will release a non-finecast Vespids, Sniper Drones and so on now that they are much more valuable?

>outflank
Dude, that was my favorite USR in the entire game. I'd exchange FTGG for Outflank everywhere in a heartbeat!

Used to outflank tetras and bring the heat with Crisis. But with Homing Beacon changes and the (possible) loss of Outflank in Tetras, this strategy is kaputt.

Next Tau update will supposedly add more aux stuff

Rumours say some kind of psyker race

I think FC it's too expensive. Quad-Fusion Commander do the melting job better

what rumours? give us the link at once!

Lady Atia has said that the Tau will get stuff not directly part of the Tau Empire.

NICASSAR IN GRAV INHIBITOR MECHASUITS!

Ghostkeel Shadowsun and Necron/Eldar/Daemon Farsight when?

...that doesn't imply we'll have psykers. It implies different stuff from normal T'au Empire, surely; but I wouldn't say 'we're getting X!'.

Fuckin' right, user.

What is the point of homing beacon, even? It allows pinpoint deepstriking to units that can deepstrike.. but they do that already.

So you can deepstrike close than over 9 inches from something. Aka put 9 flamers/Fusion blasters within range/melta range.

Followed by drinking the tears of whatever you just obliterated.

Lets talk about the Ghostkeel

Is it an effective anti infantry choice?
Yes, but other options exist. Coldstar, Riptide, Missilesides are all more cost effective at wiping infantry off the table.

Is it an effective anti tank hunter?
It can do decent damage with a Fusion Collider but a 4FB Commander can do more damage and also deep strike directly into position.

So what is good and unique about the Ghostkeel?

It has 2 support systems that dont cost any weapon slots, which makes it a good choice for a Drone Controller. Usually it must take a Target Lock because otherwise it's firing at BS5+ with its main weapon, which leaves one spot open.

The -2 Hit from shooting attacks more than 12" away combos VERY well with an Early Warning Override to make a very effective at stopping deep strike maneuvers.
Deploy within 12"? Get shot.
Deploy outside of 12"? Can't charge and -2 to hit.

I think the Ghostkeel can make a very effective flank protector.