How can I run death as an encounter?
Can he even be defeated or merely driven from the mortal plane?
The idea is that Death itself is pissed at the PC's avoiding him for so long and has decided to take matters into his own hands. Is this a bad idea or could it make for a good encounter?
What are some non-violent ways to escape him?
A trade
What would Death find of equal value to the souls of heroes?
Or should it be something simple like two silver coins each?
Unless your PCs are actually immortal, or have been returned from the dead, why should death care? They will die eventually. Everything does. He can just wait them out. He does for everyone else.
I don't think it is a good idea. Statting a concept is rarely a good idea. If you want to run him as an encounter, leave him statless and just wait until death gets bored.
Or better yet, don't have death go after the party because their is very little that could cause an extremely powerful being like death to go after a gang of murder-hobos.
>posts a pic from a game that already does just that
so, uh, what's the holdup OP?
though to be fair he's "just" a demigod hero who believes he is the angel of death, so I'd say completely invincible and unstoppable but bound by certain rules- Can't kill arbitrarily, has to accept one "gamble" per "customer" but it's a monkey's paw/djinni's wish affair where he not only can but has to twist the rules as far in his favour as possible, cheating and inevitably winning every game, including innate control over/foreknowledge of the outcome of any matter of chance. Pissed at your PCs because they were fated to die but some free will bullshit went wrong.
>How can I run death as an encounter?
He starts coming for everything AROUND them. If they want their kids, families, nation, etc back they have to go to his real to get them. That means dying. No exceptions.
Also to clarify, what I'm getting at here is he "kills" them by causing them to die through manipulating chance (so it is suddenly as though they have simply terrible luck, perhaps just short of "rocks fall, everyone dies") and then gambles for their souls. Assume he always has perfect rolls.
>put him in a place where the players will expect an encounter
>Death is just sitting there
>Just wanna have a chat
>Small talk about all the people the party has killed
>Proposes a friendly game of cards
>Player end up asking wtf he is even doing there
>"Whatever do you mean? Isn't it obvious?"
>"I'm fighting you and winning."
Death is already a Part of D&D lore. If you actually took the time to read into the Negative Energy plane during the course of 2e-3.5, you'd know Negative energy is literally conceptual death, in the same vein as how the Nasuverse explains it in Tsukihime, a Conceptual predetermined point of end that eventually triggers and ends the object in question, in this case, releasing the negative energy.
Anyhow the according to Gary Gygax, the Undead are the result of dear old Fat Fuck Orcus, back during prehistoric times when he was still a human Multiclasses Cleric/Wizard to an old deity of Slaughter, pre-Karsus magic ban, casting a massive Dweomer that KILLED EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ON HIS NATIVE PLANE, earning him a one way trip to the Abyss, which he then later worked his way up the ranks, and roughly after he cast this spell and died, the basic roster of the undead began to show up, Skeletons, zombies, ghosts, and so on, and then the deities and other planar forces got in on improving the rooster, I should note that Orcus's Abyssal progression has two versions, for some reason
Anyhow, the reason why Undead in their default drivers seat want everything dead is because Negative energy, before Fat Fuck Orcus' fuckup fart was a relatively small, instantaneous thing that occurred in all beings on expiry, but now Orcus literally gave the fucking Negative Energy plane, the cosmic representation of this shit in a massive void like cluster fuck, which way back when, had almost nothing in it, a fucking will, similar to other elemental planes, because the "mystra plz nerf" magic he used basically gave the "will" the ability to do it's job more effectively, by prolonging it's own devices to power it's means to an end, this occurs through various means, but the highest above all is the phenomena of naturally occurring undead and the defacto Faerun guide to the undead which lists what causes them to show up
So anyway, instead of elementals, the Plane of Negative energy makes Undead-
Liches are the highest paragons of this, effectively bumper cars running on death-juice, made from a magic-jar exploit and improved upon because fucking netheril-fucking Mystra and fucking Sammaaster so they get things like Salient abilities, lichspells, uncapped schools usage, the works-
And Lich power rituals, literally "Hey plane of negative energy, gimme a boost" and then it goes fullblown finger of god on them and empowers them, or puts them into a coma, kills them dead, weakens them or the like, said rituals played a key part in Vecnas military victories, the reasons why you never fuck with demiliches, and were actually splcied with epic spells both vecna and Accerak used on multiple occassions, namely, to blow themselves up to progress the entirety of the setting.
So anyway, then comes along AZALIN T-REX, a Capped at level 18 Lich who impregnates a number of women with his boner, works through the abominations that result, takes his kid, raises him in his undead Gestappo, and proceeds to shove him in a magical machine which then literally fucking turns him into the only Negative Energy Elemental ever.
Death.
Yeah, the actual Elemental representation of Negative energy is literally a floating mass of the stuff with a skull and hands, Unfortunately the Dark powers nerfed it from the rape train it could have been, but it resulted in the undeadification of an entire city into a necropolis campaign setting, so there's that, that, and Azalins son, despite the transformation, is actually LARPING as death.
And demiplane of dread, so it's an isolated incident that won't influence the planes, until a large enough handful of people figure out you can get in and out of Ravenloft via the World Serpent inn, even when the Dark Powers try to whine you not to leave their house of concentrated anti-fun and "Slap a Paladin make him fall elemental Liches"
You'll find Stats for Death in the S&S Ravenloft Gazetter 2 I think, and there is only the Entropic Reaper, who deal with Pandemonium, and Vecna's reapers, who I don't have stats for or anything, and whatever you can find for statted Nerull stuff. There is also the death spirits of Ravenloft, the Grim Reapers, which you'll find also in the S&S stuff.
So
Death (Unique Negative Energy Elemental)
Entropic Reaper (Libris Mortis)
Nerull (Demigods and Deities, probably 3.5 greyhawk or whatever)
Anything on Vecna's Reapers, agents that pick up souls for him and barter in the nine hells shelves area.
Instead of Death itself, they can fight psychopomp servant's of Death.
Grim Reapers, Banshee's, Valkaries and the like which are much more easily statted and you don't got to worry about the logic of killing Death itself
>How do you stat death?
how do you climb melancholy?
Anyhow, Death can't really exist in D&D as of yet due to a number of factors
"Current will of the plane of negative energy offset to the mechanical desire to end all life affected by Holy fuck so broken and successful fat fuck Orcus"
"Despite the setting being what it is, Deity profiles would limit Death"
"Orcus still has the fucking last Word"
"Orcus in charge of not still being broken as fuck"
"Shitty deity rules preventing Death from doing his job."
For a Terry-Pratchet Death to Exist in Dungeons and Dragons, you'd need a High-level Necromancer who is an escaped half-mad survivor of the Prime-Aboleth cities who knows of their Elder Evils, who knows about who actually fucking put the Abyss there, who knows About Graz'zt's conception, who knows stupendous amounts of Orcus Lore, who has been to the Demiplane of Dread, and knows the way in and out (World serprent inn) and who is literalyl so fucking powerful he is able to pick off on Azalin's fucking power ritual.
As someone who has invested his time an effort on Fat-Fuck Orcus, I can tell you right now he's not a fucking CR 20 encounter, his dungeon #125 puts him at 32, and even then he's STILL underpowered, because it fails to take into account what he's capable of with preptime, you see D&D had this thing of giving UNDERPOWERED demon lords in their works outside of the dungeon and Dragon magazines, and they gave you the actual ones in them for some reason.
Orcus is literally around a CR 37 or 40 if he's given his preptime, especially if you take into the account the sheer disadvantage a player is at if placed in the Abyss, with a quest to get to his layer, next to "Thow a massive spreadsheet of all the undead, undead effects, evil and necromancy spells, Liches and lich types, at a mid-level party" Oh, and no matter what, Post Dead Gods, HE HAS THE LAST WORD which instakills with no returns, not that it fucking matters BECAUSE AS LONG AS HIS WAND IS INTACT HE COMES BACK, WHICH YOU HAVE TO KILL TIAMAT TO DESTROY, WHO IN THE NINE, THEN YOU'VE GOT TO VISIT BAHAMUT TO BURN THE FUCKING THING, THEN THE FUCKIGN WAND IS SENTINT AND IS FORCING YOU TO SAVE OR DIE FROM TOUCHING IT, OR SAVE FROM TURNING EVIL, FUCKING OFF TO THE ABYSS AND TURNING INTO A NEW DEMON LORD WITH IT.
Not that any of that matters, because Fat fuck Orcus can come back because his leftover divinity is now a Vestige, so if your plane involved point-blank annihilation, he hits that, comes back an undead deity and uses his last word without the need for him to save it's Adventure quest Power Word Die blade of Awe level shit, and even then, his followers try to bring him back
Did you know his army is the fastest in the abyss to mobilize, and even unorganized as he is, he still almost kills Demogogron?
did you know that someone literally made him bonemail armour that lets him interface with the plane of negative energy?
You don't fight this fuck, you plain fucking loose, you try anything and it's all the Liches ever buffing him, he literally has all the skeletons in the universe as a skeleton mountain and a library dedicated to sucking him off, and a fucking massive kitchen as people travel far and wide to fill his belly so he may be bara, and he can SUMMON EXPLOSIVE AUTOMATED PATROLLING CHARRGABLE BY ZOMIES SPHERES OF ANNHILLATION NOW.
No- just, literally, the only thing that would work is throwing him, his wand, his name, his cult, his army, into the Far realm.
To list this fucking success stories bloody achievements-
>High priest of Deity of Slaughter
>Killed everyone casting what was effectively something worser than Karsus's Avatar
>Made the Undead
>Became a Demon
>Got back his fucking Human memories, and gloats about it
>Presumably made Liches
>Subverted vampires from their creator deity
>Became a god through faith, got killed, became an UNDEAD GOD AND GOT THE ULTIMATE KILLPHARASE, killed shitloads of gods using this to get back his wand because he didn't like his new name
>Puts so much power into his wand, it literally turns people into Demon Lords, is sapient, and tries to instakill or turn people evil, has the most convoluded method of destruction making the treck to be rid of it even more impossible
>Said method only gets rid of the thing temporarily, if he loses it, he makes a new one in a century
>Came back after dying a fucking 3rd time, now has undead qualities that make him a prime Liches "dream tank" for undead issued buffs
>Still keeps the killphrase, but can't use it at risk of his own existence
>Entire reason he has not killed everyone is because Monkey Trouble puts up the same threat because Demonspam, and because the deities wised up to this fuck and probably prevent him from ascending again, so he has to try and steal godhood somehow
>Can deploy Negative energy powered spheres of annihilation now that explode by feeding zombies to them
How the fuck Graz'zt competes can only relate to his relation with Iggwilv, Iuz, and the Pale Night, seeing as he's her offspring with NYRALATHOTEP.
The only saving grace is that they DID publish Fat Fuck Orcus's Truename in a fucking Dragon Magazine article, but it's long as shit, that I will note.
Oh right, you know why he's all piglike know? Well, the gave a selectable flae for peasants to have this equal weight pig handicap that is dropped out of a certain vicinity of the commoner automaticlly Summons Orcus who skins them alive.
You don't fuck with this guy, he's had his hand in producing an Entire Drow rebellion faction, Vecna, Accerak and the works, Dead Gods just has you avoiding him outright, you simply do not fucking win, his entirely legion of minions amount to singular cells of "why hello there, yes, I am Necrocheese, Enjoy the tang to follow"
Did you know his direct followers can ignore all somantic components in return for using blood vials from humanoids above medium sacrificed to Orcus? Did you know his thralls stink like shit, and LITERALLY HAVE TO BE NECROPHILIACS to work for him?
He's even presumably that magical voice "inspired" necromancer classes fucking hear in their heads that put them in the profession, Pale Master Entry requirements, Death Master, the Dread necromancer, a large number of taint bases classes, his Tennebrous vestige, the ride fucking goes on.
The souls of something greater than the heroes, like that of a creature that lives for centuries or is immortal.
So you asspull players to death? Doesn't sound like a fun game.
So no, beating Orcus is probably on the list of being "Fucking tedious, time-consuming and so balls-to the wall difficult it's better to just underplay it and call it a day."
Anyhow, Death, is a Divine rank 0 or 1 being with the powers of a Unique Negative Energy Elemental that exists all across the multiverse ferrying souls off to their designated afterlives, reincarnating them if need be, but also ensuring their souls are not ensnared by extraplanar forces, namely subversive Evil Deities who think the Grim Reaper won't knock on their door to fuck their shit up for going against status quo beyond what the rules of Sacrifice allow an Evil deity to do when claiming a Souls.
To make a permanent enemy in death is the act of destroying a soul, which in turn results in an most unspeakble fate, one should note that since Death's arrival on the scene, the Domains related to him are no longer in the public access, and all Deities that once had reign over his portfolios now answer to him/it for power, are thus dubbed Death Gods, as he, despite being an elemental is the foremost representation as Death as an authoritative power that favors a balance of a sort. Since his enductment, the Ban on the Unborn (See Ashradorn and his Draconic bullshit) has been lifted, and all Soul fonts are under the Reaper's Protection.
Due to annoying little conundrum's because Asmodeus and his lust for unborn babies and atheist souls because wounds, (Read into Ashradorn's quest with the Soul Font) the new deal is baptism is a thing in multiple faiths now, as it prevents the Devils from dragging those who were not given a chance to life from claiming them "Under circumstances"
However, Death has a direct aversion to Aberrations, Oozes and choice outsiders Evils, claiming many to be representative of some kind of greater threat that exists outside the scope of much deific knowledge, and influence with the subsequent execution of a number of deities such as Illthestine.
You don't stat death. If death shows up in front of the PCs, guess what happens? They die.
Because it's the fucking universal concept of DEATH.
Death has many an abode or place of rest for when it is mentally fatigued, a handicap remaining from what scholars believe it to be it's younger years, when it was presumably a Lich, as no other recorded from of Intelligent Undead yielded such power at the time, This does now however, mean it's work is ever done, and the propagation of it's work as an active force across the planes relates to the it's unification of concepts pertaining to it's perception across the planes, the first being the Death God rule, which places any deity with portfolios of the afterlife, death, undeath, and means to these areas under it's direct authority, claming the title of Death God opposed to any other, and it's unique ability to distribute countless aspects, avatars, and chosen mantles across the planes through the creation of varioious reaper entities.
Effectively, anything considered a reaper, or soul collector with the motive of a Grim reaper, is now an extension of "Death" in entirety, this being extended to an undead control ability it has.
Death is effectively the subsumed will of negative energy made manifest.
So know PC's have a working D&D concept for death, effectively, the elemental Lord of Negative energy, came into being after beating orcus, and killing that one Greater Deity that is a massive wraith and wearing him as his blackened robes.
Death's Skull is actually the old head of the Wand of Orcus, (Hence an instakill on touch abilitity it has)
Do it like Castlevania, where death can never be defeated, but only his avatars on our plane temporarily dispersed.
Like Nemesis in RE3, he will always be back for the next round.
If you really want to get nasty, have him appear one time after a really tough encounter when PCs are settling down for a long rest, and they're tapped out on HP and abilities.
Stat a concept? You don't. Either the concept exists in the minds of those who exist (which is itself a concept) or it doesn't.
But another concept or diety might interfere. It might make it an interesting way of pressuring your players onward, not unlike the Reaper in the Persona games.
>Running dark sun
>Players find the God of death living on a farm west of the mountains
>He just needs help cleaning up his farm fellas!
>Turns our the monsters on his farm were there to keep him contained
>Now they're slain and he is free to harvest souls and hurl them into the Gray instead of them just being bound to Athas
>The final boss of the campaign was Death himself, wielding a scythe and drawling at them in an accent as he cut down players willy nilly
That was a fun game.
Thank you for that informative rant
This is a pretty terrible idea to be perfectly honest with you.
D&D lore is so fucking bad.
>Stat a concept? You don't. Either the concept exists in the minds of those who exist (which is itself a concept) or it doesn't.
Right, because Death has never been personified in fiction before. What a ridiculous idea, why would anybody do that?
I'm sure I missed something in that thesis. But, if someone has to go through all that to become the ferryman of souls, how is the job being done now, since obviously that convoluted series of events will never take place.
What is currently responsible for the migration of souls?
That's... Actually really smart. Death doesn't NEED to actually do anything to fight someone in most cases since he can pretty much always just play the long game and win
A lot of alcohol
Maybe some meatpie
Basically, the current state of affairs with souls and the afterlife multiverse wide is that it's literally a game of bobbing apples, but with souls, with various people trading with them dependant on the forms they take.
The abyss has Larvae, which they peddle and sell on a particular layer, that make up part of the Demon Diet and ecology, Demogorgon himself knows a way to turn any aligned soul into one of these, thus, make them a demon.
the 9 hells have their own version of this which is this fucked up merger of pre-gestated wombs stuffed in their devils called Ovatorium/it being halfway mixed with subverted Baatorian reproduction, which get's even more confusing because one is effectively a devil if "Considered to be one in alignment with Asmodeus." Hence Erinyes, and various fallen Celestials present which weren't apart of the promotion/Demotion system they have there.
Limbo and the like a of the NE planes lso have larvae, though I think the difference is that the larvae there have arms, opposed to heads on maggots, and Night Hags, and various other hags trade them.
I should note that Limbo has Entropic Reapers (Libris mortis) to also collect souls
Vecna is also in the soul-business, having his own undead repears that capture stragglers for whatever, I'd have to talk about soul-fuckery involving certain classes, spells, and magical items to further this, so I'll leave it here.
The bulk of souls take on whatever forms they do as petitioners in the event they followed a deity, and the default ones go to Kelevemvor, who hates his job because he can't do dick with it, and his predecessors fucked him over with the dullests most depressing afterlives after,
Basically, if you didn't opt in to D&D esque spirituality the following happens-
>Nasty Lower planar Outsider gets you, and fucks with you, you end up an nasty Outsider till you die, one sohuld note this means your going to be stripped of individuality, memories nad sense of self
>Asmodeus/Ahriman Eats your Atheist/unworshiipping despair ridden ass to heal his wounds (Applies to miscarriages as well)
>You are absorbed into a fucking city and reduced to nothing, or essentially become a part of the landscape
>Same thing, but in heaven
>Fall out of the cosmology at the border and become a vestige, a spirit that can grant powers it had when it was alive/existing to those who summon it, and this is literally the border of reality where the alignment system no longer applies, so one is devoid of feeling, emotion and things that are generally too horrible to contemplate
>Dark powers get a hold of you to do fuck knows what
>Undeath
>Nasty Death god gets you
So yeah, there are a lot of holes in this, Death without faith or in the wrong place in D&D can mean the worst things ever, and the number of ways to destroy a soul, which is ones lifeforce, (Composite energies that make up the soul) so that's even worse right off the bat.
Basically, as it stands, a Death introduced to D&D would actually be if anything, a massive boon that manages to minimize these horrible fates greatly, because it doesn't answer to the fucking local Overdeity, a Greater Deity, or any power, beyond the rule of getting cheated which isn't something it can work against, but it would certainly keep a fair balance better held than deities who use their powers without understanding or care, case in point, look at every Vivec tier fucking power that didn't do something stupid and reliant on their wondrous whims that snuffed it, causing a horrible catastrophic event because deities have the power to skip through cause and effect, and don't realize filling in the blanks is important.
1) What system? D&D in particular already has its thing with gods of the dead which is the closest thing it has to "death".
2) What did the PCs do to piss him off? The sentient concept of death isn't going to show up and chase people down personally unless everything's out of whack. If it's not some kind of fuckery that would screw up the whole system then you're just trying to force an idea on people.
3) This one should probably be more important but I already started typing, but what exactly do you mean by death? Like the actual concept given form? You stat is like Cthulhu in CoC. Each turn he kills people. That's his only stat because you can't win. Or is the Grim Reaper somehow just a thing that can be killed?
Overall I'd say it's a pretty dumb concept to even try to get into combat with something you call death that isn't just a silly nickname for someone who's good at killing.