Paizo Games General /pgg/

Paizo Games General /pgg/ (Parthinder & Starfinder, formerly /pfg/)

Gishes! How do you gish in Pathfinder and not suck. What's the best way?

Link repository, could really use an update: pastebin.com/PeD1SMUZ

Current Playtests: pastebin.com/quSzkadj

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giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526531-Dreamscarred-Press-Divergent-Paths-Mystic-playtest-thread&p=22076653&viewfull=1#post22076653
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/awakened
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/evoker-minstrel
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/order-of-the-scion
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/planestouched-oracle
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/planar-custodian
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/surge-fist-monk
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/bestial-kineticist
youtube.com/watch?v=XeoWfjhcmuY
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depends what you mean by Gish

Damage with spells and swords? Magus

Self buff and murderize things? Warpriest.

You play a wizard and refluff your spells.

Warpriest, Occultist, and (technically) Kineticist are my favorite gishes, if we go by the terms of "magic dude who also fights good"

Because Magus was a shoddily-designed class that needs to get some kind of Unchained treatment.

If they really didn't want to give Magus full level Fighter qualifications they should have made it "Magus level-3" for the purpose of qualifying for feats, at least then you could theoretically take some of the Xteen level feats.

Do you think that only the popular Ensoulment apps will get in, or are there any dark horses you think have a better chance than what the polls give them?

I think Aurelia won't get in, despite her being a stronger app

I liked the art.

He's actually a half. Dad was a human and brought home a kuhimo, which is what set everything in motion for this character to lose what he should have inherited, because Dad was supposed to marry someone important, not someone he met in his travels when he went adventuring.

I don't think CCC will get in, elf hitler can't be a hero.

Pretty sure I'm going to remake an entire app. Just not happy with it functionally. What's missing ensoulment character wise?

Nothing, just b urself, and try not to be a default hero

Reposting from last thread

It might fit well in jttw. But don't make him japanese make him some korean or chinese style greedy merchant with those silly hats and rattail braids

>Just bee yourself

I think that would be a fun character, some /r9k/ stereotype.

>knew my character could only work as "default hero"
>GM even agreed with me
So much for my chances.

>tfw surrounded by roasty heroines.

Popular, good, and what the GM wants, aren't always the same things.

The GM wants a certain blend of magic that no one has really defined. The GM, if he's smart, will never talk about more than he already has.

What people want here is to be entertained. Memes, celebs, and waifus are always going to dominate the discussion. Simple solid applicants characters are going to be discarded as shit because there isn't much to gossip about. People who won't talk back aren't going to be mentioned often because they can't be used to stir up debate. App quality does matter, but in addition to the other factors, not independent of them.

I mean... Kind of play wise. It feels like there's a lot of smart characters, idealist fighters, and anime. I like playing characters that is interesting in a party or works well when paired with another character and am looking for something mechanically different.

Then play someone grizzled.

>mfw your character never gets their happy ending or even their Way Out
>mfw they just get shat on as the resident butt-monkey
>mfw you just don't see the campaign resulting in your character winding up in a good place

RPG history question:

Why were full attacks ever introduced to 3.0 in the first place?

AD&D 2e had no problem with warriors getting to move an attack in the same round.

Full attacks poisoned 3.0, then went on to poison 3.5 and Pathfinder. Even Starfinder is keeping full attacks in a way, but it's not as bad because it's just two attacks at a -4 penalty, no iteratives ever.

Here's how:

You play a person.

That is why I said korean OR chinese.

Or be a taoist wizard. Everyone loves those guys

>introduced to 3.0 in the first place?
3.0 attempted streamlining weapon speeds. Everything in 3.0 has a direct descendant in 2e- or earlier...

I feel like we don't get nearly enough crazy old Chinese occultists.

Them 2e dart full attacks...

This always feels like really shallow advice to me. The best characters make use of every aspect of themselves, including race and gender, for little details.

A girl doesn't have to "act like a girl", but the way a girl "acts like a man" carries different weight, and their life leading up to should be felt in their interactions.

Alright, why don't you tell us about the character? we can more accurately give you feedback and suggestions if we know what you're doing with him/her

Unless it's relevant to a given situation, what the character looks like and what they're packing shouldn't be mentioned very often.

Tell me about them, user. I'm intrigued because you sound like a thoughtful player.

giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?526531-Dreamscarred-Press-Divergent-Paths-Mystic-playtest-thread&p=22076653&viewfull=1#post22076653

He's asking for us.

We still have a few weeks left. We need more of two things. Warring Kingdom warriors with dragon crescent blades, taoist wizards, chinese swordsmen with crazy wushu blade powers, and sumotori

>what the character looks like and what they're packing shouldn't be mentioned very often.

Oh shut up, a female guardswoman would (or at least should) have a different outlook on things than a male guardsman in the same position. Equality of the genders just means neither gender has unique qualities.

Call him a faggot and send his shit back for internal playtesting.

>mfw I'm seriously considering a Samurai Elf whose Brightness is forging the Perfect Sword
>mfw he's equal parts Thunderbolt Fantasy and Feanor.

>Noetic is gonna be charisma-based after all
Good. How they thought showing that wisbomination for playtesting was excusable was chilling.

Make him an old man with white hair and long fu-man-chu or however you spell it

Or be a sumotori like user said

Men and women can have equally compelling motivation that sprouts from the same reasons.

Of course, if you're playing them like a guy, you could play them like a girl who has had to beat boys at their own game in order to survive in their world, making her both tough, embittered, and out of touch with her own femininity. That's kind of a stereotype and the basis for a narrative that generally is critical of societal roles for men and women, though.

I mean, it is fantasy. You don't have to write a great character for the Great American Novel™, you're playing a chick in a pen and paper game.

Coming from the guy who was originally complaining, my post would help with the retardation of feat qualification.

Combine this with either giving the Magus inherent bonuses to Concentration checks to cast defensively, or give the class the unique ability to cast in close combat without provoking AOOs altogether when using Spell Combat, THAT would be something that would make the class unique from a spellcaster perspective.

The driving concept behind the character is that they're nobility, and the perfect heir to in regards to capacity and values, but not allowed to inherit due to their circumstances. I have the characterization in mind but I haven't ironed out all of the backstory.

Being female gives an easy way to justify this and other aspects of the characterization I want without making things convoluted or requiring explanations for why no one has gotten rid of them if they're a threat or backed them if they're a strong candidate.

Problem again being, I don't know shit about playing women.
When I play a man I know how to describe movement, what details in my appearance implies, and I have an easy time considering how their backstory would shape them.
With a woman I really don't know how to describe a "barely disheveled" appearance or how the same backstory applied to a girl growing up might affect her differently.

Hey, /pgg/lets.

What's that one class you've always wanted to play, but never managed to find the right campaign or character for?

If I could ever swing a Deadly Fist/Gifted Blade Soul Knife I could totally do a !Ryu/Ken

JttW that concept, my son.

Croupier/Initiator

I would but I don't have time for games at the moment :C I live vicariously through everyone else.here in the thread.

I've always wanted to make a Swordlord character that didn't suck, particularly for a Kingmaker campaign where they're most relevant. Trouble is, a) they suck, and b) the one chance I had was with the worst DM I've ever played with, and the campaign fell apart halfway through, because the whole group got sick of playing second fiddle to a constant stream of DMPCs.

Also the spell list for the Magus needs a complete rehaul. You know how the Alchemist gets by as a melee build when preferring their Mutagen over their bombs? They have TONS of Extracts (essentially spells) that make up for the lowered BAB by giving them boosts either through Size or Enhancement bonuses. Magus doesn't get these kinds of boosts until at least level 4 spells, which is completely unacceptable.

Also, make it so that more Magus Arcana are like Ki Powers, in that they give the Magus an inherent boost without having to spend precious Arcane Pool points on every little thing. Alternatively, make it so that there's some means of regaining Pool points like the Swashbuckler, maybe by downing an enemy spellcaster?

>I've always wanted to make a Swordlord character that didn't suck

WARDER
SCARLET THRONE STYLE
BAZINGA

I'm sure you'll get a chance to play soon enough. Then you can tell your prospective GM about your character idea, and he'll say "sure, you're Ken".

Hi Slow

Warlord is also a valid option and captures the bravado rather well.

If they're a noblewoman that's not allowed to take their birthright, consider what all causes those problems, and her response to them.

>How does she respond to men who are attracted to her? Does she encourage it? Hate it? Only get primped up for special people?
>What sort of person is she attracted to?
>Choose a favorite color, and recognize that she'll have a favorite style of clothing. she'll have had more exposure to the vagaries of women's clothes at this point, so she'll have opinions about dresses, corsets, and trousers.
>How physically active is she? This'll affect how many flowing things are on her body - if she's a warrior, she'll want to keep her hair short, and avoid things like dresses and skirts. If she's more the sort to stand back, she may prefer to wear more pretty things.
>Is there a particular part of her body she's proud of? Maybe violet eyes she cuts her hear and wears makeup to accentuate, or her hair is beautiful. She may take pains for the sake of vanity, even if they're not entirely practical, such as wearing long hair despite being a warrior.
>Has she spent long studying and reading? If so, does she need glasses?
>What are her opinions on women's rights?
>Does she have any personal secrets she doesn't much want to get out? Perhaps things related to her family?
>Does she have any particular favorite foods that she goes out of her way to get? Many medieval noblewomen had a taste for sweets whenever they could get their hands on them.
>What sort of skills has her parents chosen to endow her with, given she was never going to be the heir, and likely would have been married off for politics?
>Why wasn't she married off for politics?

That should cover most of your concerns.

If it's a gestalt, would Warlord/Swashbuckler work?

Does it matter? I'm never going to play them because the campaigns around here either have the right setting but wrong CharGen, or the right CharGen and wrong setting.

If it's a gestalt I'd suggest Warlord || Fighter (Weapon Master), myself.

Thanks, I'll give those some thought. I actually just came here to yell my worries out into the void and didn't plan on discussing anything but this'll help a lot if I go through with the change.

I've got a plan for an android soulknife fluffed as using hard light projectors rather than psychic bullshit to create her weapons, but none of the games I've had an opprtunity to take part in have had the tech base for that sort of thing.

Speaking of which, would Warlord|Bard work for a Julie d'Aubigny type?

I guess it could work. Bard and warlord gestalt rather nicely.

No problem user. I'm of the opinion that if someone wants to make things work, they should have the opportunity to make it as good as possible. I'm glad I was able to facilitate that.

Swordswoman and singer? Oh, absolutely.

I mean, I'm considering making a Smugelf of that kind once another campaign pops up, so that should be good.

Unless you're going half-elf, you'll need to go drow for that CHA bonus if you want to be an elf.

Well, I'll go with the former. But the sentiment stands. There will be arrogance.

>smugdrow
yes

I think I know what campaign that is, good luck.

Why? Just pump the Charisma to 14 the good old natural way and leave it be. Elf neither raises or lowers your Charisma, it's fiiiiiiine.

I already saw your post concerning the uselessness of Fighter Training and I thought it was a very good point.
Not including the revision to Fighter Training, here's a rough draft of what I have so far.

>Allow Arcanist Exploits in place of Magus Arcana
A lot of Magus Arcana are useless, and while they could be rewritten to make them non-trap options, Arcanist gets a lot of Magus-like stuff through class features and Exploits.

>Remove the focus upon Shocking Grasp
Introduce a class feature that allows you to sacrifice damaging spells in exchange for damage based upon your UC Magus level and the spell's level. Damage dealt is of the type that the spell uses.

>Change medium/heavy armor to Arcana, add partial bonuses to Concentration for these Arcana
Magi who want to cast in armor can get their armor that much faster, and they get benefits for doing so. Bonuses would likely scale off of the armor's class, so DEX magi could still benefit from taking these, but not as much as a STR Magus would. For example, possibly the ability to cast spells of a level equal to 1/2 your Armor bonus without prompting AoOs.

I'm not original user, but you've given good advice and I just thought you should get another nod of appreciation for it.

An attempt to defang closet troll monsters as they existed in early versions of 3e, primarily, and give kiting and speed advantages a role in combat versus monsters. Y'know, as opposed to just changing how those types of combatants worked.

In 3.0 it didn't really hurt martials too bad, since the ever ubiquitous haste let you move and still full attack anyway (it was a bit fucked for spellcasters, but that's a different problem). When haste was changed in 3.5, martials lost easy access to mobile full attacks.

Honestly, I would much rather the Magus just get some kind of "at-will" option that doesn't dig into their spell slots. Something kind of like a Kinetic Blast that scales by 1d6/level, and which you can attach rider effects to. Kind of like a Kinetic Blast almost.

Have some kind of 1d6/level scaling elemental damage thing (which can be changed, or reduced to 1d4 if you want to go untyped), allow you to attach rider effects to it like a Kineticist's Substance Infusions or a Monk's Style Strikes, and that would be a solid fix. You could also decouple Spellstrike and Spell Combat from requiring you to have a free hand open, and just rolling Ranged Spell Combat and Ranged Spellstrike up into them by default.

My ideal Unchained Magus would probably look something like a Gambler Kineticist focusing on Substance Infusions with a kinetic blade or extended range kinetic blast to be honest

>"Well, we changed haste so casters can't use it on themselves to cheese out more actions. Problem solved."
>"I feel like we're forgetting some vital assumptions in the game mechanics we based around Haste giving extra move actions."
>"If we forgot them they couldn't be that important."

I don't know if i feel worthy of that much praise. I just went over the sorts of things I go out of my way to add to my characters.

You matter to me, user.

You don't even know me, user.

You're still a person who deserves to be happy.

What's your ideal Chargen/game combo?

For me, it's something Witcher-esque

So how are the "Kinetic" archetypes for other classes?

Awakened Bloodrager
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/awakened
Evoker Minstrel
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/evoker-minstrel
Order of the Scion (not an archetype, but an order)
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/order-of-the-scion
Planestouched Oracle
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/planestouched-oracle
Planar Custodian
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/planar-custodian
Surge Fist Monk
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/surge-fist-monk

and of course, Bestial Kineticist
spheresofpower.wikidot.com/bestial-kineticist

I'm thinking I might build an Awakaned Bloodrager. It's essentially "Elemental Bloodline+++ the Archetype. "

I haven't been happy for years, which is funny because I always take great pains to make other people happy.

>What's your ideal Chargen

Depends on the game. If I want to go balls-to-the-walls insanity I'd want something like 32 PB gestalt 7+, ideally 11. I know that sounds stupid, but if the games recruiting around here are any indication you'll get 1-2 IRL years of pleasure out of them before things finally fall apart.

Realistically? I just want an honest-to-goodness level 3 gestalt campaign set in Golarion. I know the lore, I know the land, it can be dumb as hell at times but I can get in a real better headspace with that than one of these custom campaigns.

Witcher-esque is muy bueno tier, you have good taste. Personally, I'd want something based in Druma or all over Avistan, a sort of "each character is a hero of their country/region" thing where they start off solo, but unite through providence and fight against insurmountable odds to protect the continent.

My fellow self sacrificing assistman

Honestly the biggest problem with most Arcana is that they either give 1/day bonuses or eat way too many Pool points that you can't get back if the thing you ended up using it on is wasted. The fact that your Pool is so small to begin with (1/2 level plus Int for such a necessary class feature, really? And 1/3 level for Black Blades?!) also doesn't help things whatsoever, as you'll likely be burning through Pool points just as quickly as a Bloodrager burns through rounds of Rage if not faster, and will not only run out faster but have less to show for it by the end.

Honestly Arcane Pool points just need to take a page from the Ki Pool list of the Unchained Monk.

Bestial Kineticist is fun. One of the few way to get a ranged attack on your companion. The Int limit on wild talent practically requires you to take monstrous mount though. Also the time it takes to train new talent is a problem.

>Realistically? I just want an honest-to-goodness level 3 gestalt campaign set in Golarion. I know the lore, I know the land, it can be dumb as hell at times but I can get in a real better headspace with that than one of these custom campaigns.
This is a bit of an unpopular opinion, but frankly I really like Golarion. It's kitchen sink, sure, but once you actually really look at it, nothing is truly out of place for the sake of being there. I just wish a few of my niche favorite races (android, ghoran) were available as characters in more parts of the world without serious backstory shenanigans.

Thinking of making a henshin hero for JttW. Have I gone full weeb?

The best possible flavor of weeb.

SOIYA

You were a full weeb the moment you clicked on this general, user.

GO AS WEEB AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

youtube.com/watch?v=XeoWfjhcmuY

>but frankly I really like Golarion

Oh, absolutely. We love to piss and moan about the setting but then again, doesn't everyone with the default world of a system? I know Faerun got lots of shit, but people still have fond memories of Waterdeep and the setting in general. I don't know, sometimes I'm in this thread and I just wonder if I like Golarion because we've got too big of an investment into it; the General's been around for 5 years, user. 5 years of nonstop conversation about Golarion. We know every tiny detail about it now, and it makes the world seem familiar.

This isn't to say we're going entirely off familiarity, there's plenty of positives to the setting too. For one, I think the Land of the Linnorm Kings is one of the greatest parts of the setting, and the fact we've barely touched on it around here except for that spat a year ago has kept it fresh. I love the entirety of Lake Encarthan, I love the Whispering Way - hell, I think the Inner Sea is TIGHT, and the only time we seem to have consensus on the setting being poor is when we're discussing Cosmology, which is typically often the weakest part of any setting and is best built around being as nebulous as possible.

Golarion is dying along with Pathfinder as Paizo puts their all into Starfinder, which in the years to come will be their "next system." I mean, what more is there to do in Golarion? There are no greener pastures. The setting is coming to a close and I don't want it to go out with a whimper, I want it to go out with everyone getting a chance to really put their all into making mighty heroes and villains from their favorite part of the setting. I just want a last great hurrah, user.

I honestly still love the early versions of Golarion. It started to loose me when Pazio drank the kool aid and starting gutting it to be as inoffensive as possible.

Starfinder is an experiment at this point. Its publishing schedule could only be called anemic- they're only publishing the chapters of the first AP every other month and there aren't any plans for expansion material at all, while Pathfinder still has releases scheduled into next year.

They're pretty obviously waiting to see if Starfinder lands or flops before they invest any time or money into it at all.