Warhammer 40k general /40kg/

> better than the autocannon as an all-rounder

negative. Good for anti-infantry
Not as good for anti-large creatures
Bad for anti-vehicles larger creatures.

Autocannons still better for everything tougher T4+
Heavy bolters better for everything T3-

the marine will be significantly tougher with T4 and a 3+ save.

So I was thinking

Wouldn't everything about the Dark Angels secret retardation make sense if it wasn't they were waiting for the Lion to be revived in the rock or whatever

but rather

that he was a traitor that they kept prisoner in the deepest darkest parts of the rock?

>be grey knights
>have to buy your fucking storm bolters
Marines got fucked this edition.

No one ever saw it coming.

they have identical to wound rolls against T4.
And the heavy bolter has more shots.
The Autocannon actually has a higher chance to wound against the T3.

wrong.

2+ and 3+ saves got nerfed by modified AP system.

4+/5+/6+ got buffed by it.

There's more things that will lower a 2+/3+ save than there ever were that removed those saves outright.

Models with 2+/3+ will now be failing more saves than they used to due to their saves being modifed. And this hits marine armies the hardest.

Looks like some special and heavy weapons have a tax based on what platform they're on.

Infinity does this, too. A heavy machinegun in Infinity if going to cost you significantly less in points and SWC on a cheap mook with crappy accuracy than it will on a mini-Mech or a camouflaging specialist infiltrator.

Are landraiders good yet? I have 4 from years ago when I used to play. I want back in.

The KV church tank is about $50, same as the base price of a Leman Russ kit and about $10 more than the same kit on e-bay.

If you want much cheaper than that you'll need to go with bolt action or hunt around for better deals.

>half the shit you've been posting looks worse than the Russ
Basically impossible but you are entitled to your wrong opinion.

that was already revealed in one of the books.

Pandorax I think, the one that had Draigo trolling the mortal loving shit out of Azreal, and Abbaddon trolling the mortal loving shit out of everyone on the planet.

Yeah the basic one is pretty stronk at this point. A LOT of points though.

Not to mention that T4 isn't always better than T3. S5 guns like heavy bolters are a 3+ to wound against both marines and guardsmen.

That actually would make there whole asspain about keeping the traitor thing a secret way more legitimate. I can't really see the Imperium letting you live if half of your legion and your daddy went rogue.

Honestly haven't posted since.

That kv-2 future tank is ugly as fuck.

that tank is hideous.

and the stupid gothic buttresses on it make it look even stupider.

We all know who the real savior will be someday. Tiny bandeblade will rescue us from ugly tank hell.

T4 is still better than T3. 3+ save is still better than 4+ against anything but -3AP.
So Marines are still tougher. The edition did not change that.

On a different note. Marines can now get benefit from cover against weapons without high AP.

>tank on the right
>ugly

>tank on the left
>I'm embarrassed for whoever designed it because it's so cringey and retarded.

Praise be to tiny baneblade, deliver us from shit old leman russ

Tempestus scions are BS 3+ models with a 4+ armor save. Their guns are significantly cheaper than marine guns.

For 10 points per model they have BS 3+ T3 4+ save with an S3 AP-2 rapid fire gun. A plasmagun is effectively 6 points for them because they're paying 1 point for their basic gun anyway, they're 9 points base.

>Yeah the basic one is pretty stronk at this point. A LOT of points though.
What about redeemers?

Saves are now only really negated by -3 and -4 AP weapons, and the only weapons that commonly seem to be sporting those stats are plasma, melta, and power weapons.

Actually, the power weapons seems great because now these things have an advantage over a lot of shooting in that melee has a great advantage against armor close up.

>So Marines are still tougher.
Marines are tougher than orks and guardsmen.

But they're weaker than they have been in every single previous edition all the way back to rogue trader.

8E Marines are the weakest that marines have ever been.

T4 is better than T3 against some weapons, it is the same as T3 vs S5 and S8+ guns.

Is there a rule similar to Death or Glory in 8th?

So is there still going to be Codices or is everything contained in each faction's Index?

Are all of the marines going to be merged into a big codex or will they still have individual books?
Are Chapter Tactics really dead?

Just fucking twist your Leman Russ backwards and add some Space Marine bits.

yeah its called throwing a krak grenade or hitting the vehicle with a melee weapon or in overwatch.

everyone does it now though.

nope

vehicles got watered down babytier.

facing doesn't matter either.

Lame. I loved the idea of one guy taking on a tank and either dying or winning big.

Probably not quite as good but a lot less points so still quite useable. Land Raiders are much tougher than they used to be. Lascanons are pricey and really good now and all twin linking is gone so the base raider just has 4 lascanons so it sorta pays out the nose.

The land raider terminus with 8 lascanons costs 665 points.

Squats BTFO

Try reading the rulebook.

>Hating the Russ
>Hating the most Iconic thing short of the Basilisk

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

It's MEANT to be ugly. It's god damned farming equipment with a gun slapped onto it for emergency colony defense. It was never meant to be an MBT. The Imperium is just forced to use it.

Next you're going to fucking say "Cawl can design a new one and rescue us from uggly tank hell!!!"

Fuck off. The entire POINT of the Russ is that it isn't really a tank. It's a technical. It is MEANT to look ugly, boxy, and make-shift.

The fucking Baneblade is a light MBT. So yeah, just field Baneblades if you want a tank.

Hey Veeky Forums, make fun of my 8th edition list I'm going to run against Tau on Saturday.

holy shit I can't believe how much this fixes the kit

but the question was, why are Marines more expensive than Scions.
I said, because marines are tougher than Scions.

The question about how tough Marines are relative to previous editions is interesting. But also completely irrelevant to the question of if marines are tougher than scion in this edition.

so still a lot of weapons.
The only weapon that the marines are not better against than scions are S8+ AP-4 or better. so Lascannons and such.
If you want to go back to previous editions, Marines died to lascannons just as easily as scions back then too.
Actually, the only strength point that changed in relative effectiveness is S5. In turn, the marines are now tougher compared to scions than they were last edition against S6 and S7.

>It's MEANT to be ugly. It's god damned farming equipment with a gun slapped onto it for emergency colony defense. It was never meant to be an MBT. The Imperium is just forced to use it.

I don't care what the fluff justifications are for it. It's an eyesore of a model. It's like 25 years old now.

>ext you're going to fucking say "Cawl can design a new one and rescue us from uggly tank hell!!!"

That is literally what GW would use as the fluff justification. You know what the thing is about primaris marines though? Despite their stupid fluff they look WAY better than old marines because they FIXED THE SHITTY PROPORTIONS.

>Fuck off. The entire POINT of the Russ is that it isn't really a tank. It's a technical. It is MEANT to look ugly, boxy, and make-shift.

No, the entire point of a russ is that its a fucking tank. The fluff justification is just the aspie defense force saying nothing can ever look good because muh tractors.

>The fucking Baneblade is a light MBT. So yeah, just field Baneblades if you want a tank.

There is no such thing as a light MBT. An MBT by definition precludes size classifications.

>It's god damned farming equipment
That's a meme not something that's actually true.

You don't also believe that abaddon doesn't have arms do you?

it would help if the tanks you posted as 'improvements' weren't just as ugly or uglier.

that doesn't work to well when vehicles are just the same as any other unit.

but if a vehicle has fly it can ram a flier. so any skimmer can attack a flier in a charge.

which i think is kinda cool.

I just realized you could make a Spearhead detachment with just a Master of Ordnance and Artillery out the ass.

Really fucking neat.

...

S5 is much more common than S6 and S7.

Scions are now VASTLY more durable against heavy bolters than they used to be. They used to be wounded on a 2+ and got no armor save. Now they're wounded on a 3+ and get a 5+ save.

Marines are now weaker against heavy bolters.

Heavy bolters are a very common kind of weapon with analogues in virtually every army.

Scions are literally 16 points with a plasmagun, marines are 13 points with a boltgun. Or scions are 10 points with an S3 Ap-2 gun. Scions can also get more special weapons per squad than marines by far (A 10 strong scion squad can carry 4 plasmaguns and a plasma pistol for 128 points, which happens to be 2 points less than a squad of 10 marines with bolters) and can natively deep strike, at the cost for not being as good in melee and having 1 lower toughness and save mod. But they are much, much more survivable against the common anti-infantry weapons that used to shred them to pieces.

I literally don't have a reason to field marines instead of scions, other than that I own marines and not scions and don't want to buy another army.

>Half the the hobby is assembling and painting
>It doesn't matter if models are ugly!
I've never bought a Russ model because of how god awful they look. Just because you've succumbed to Games Workshop's artistic Stockholm syndrome doesn't mean ugly models are a good thing.

Go fuck yourself.

Tell you what: GW can go right ahead selling their "old Leman Russ" tank right along side whatever new Russ they might sell us.

I'd bet you good money that a something that looks like a mini-Baneblade would out-sell the model we've always had by far. And fuck all your fluff justifications for keeping the old. Fuck it right in the ass: It doesn't matter one bit.

...

Still not a fan of the Sicaran.

isn't sicaran.

It's literally a leman russ built backwards and it looks retarded because of the engine box

Those look so much worse.

Where do I buy?

>I don't care what the fluff justifications are for it. It's an eyesore of a model. It's like 25 years old now.

I and probably plenty others love the design of the tank and it is an iconic piece of 40k. If you want better tanks go play Bolt Action.

>That is literally what GW would use as the fluff justification. You know what the thing is about primaris marines though? Despite their stupid fluff they look WAY better than old marines because they FIXED THE SHITTY PROPORTIONS.

Yeah. Those Assault Marines look so much better! :)

>No, the entire point of a russ is that its a fucking tank. The fluff justification is just the aspie defense force saying nothing can ever look good because muh tractors.

It is a make shift tank. Its design screams it.

>There is no such thing as a light MBT. An MBT by definition precludes size classifications.

My apologies I meant light scout vehicle, not an MBT. It is defined as such from the Dark Age of Technology. In the fluff.

Actually it's in an early WD article. I can't remember which article and I know that just lends credence to "lol meme" - but I have seen it in print in the past. The reason it sticks out in my memory is back when the Russ kits first came out, one of the locals made an agricultural world force and painted all his fucking tanks as John Deer tractors. That was his primary defense for doing so and even pointed out the article on numerous occasions for a few months.

Tiny baneblade shits all over your face, it's great looking. A vast improvement.

>Heavy bolters are a very common kind of weapon with analogues in virtually every army.
S6 weappons are also common. Multilasers are a common weapon with analogues in virturally every army.
Plasma guns, which used to be your dedicated marine killer and the weapon you are talking about, now only wound on a 3+ and the marine still gets a save.

Space Marines in cover now have a 2+ save base, they used to only have a 3+.

And this is all wonderfully interesting, but irreverent because Marines are still tougher even against the weapons you are complaining about.
So Marines are tougher than scions in 8th edition. My first point still true.

Everything this guy said.

I want the fucking WW2 autist to leave. You already shit up one thread with your shit taste.

Here:

games-workshop.com/en-PL/Imperial-Guard-Leman-Russ-Battle-Tank

>I and probably plenty others love the design of the tank and it is an iconic piece of 40k. If you want better tanks go play Bolt Action.

You have stockholme syndrome. It's god awful. You might as well ask for the tiny orks or little malformed marines from the same time period back. Do you think the Warbuggy is similarly iconic?

>Yeah. Those Assault Marines look so much better! :)

The stupid bolter jetpacks? Take off the backpack and the sure as hell do.

>It is a make shift tank. Its design screams it.

No, it's a cheap, ancient, toy sculpted by an incompetent Brit in the late 80's and the design screams it.

Cover is much, much harder to get than it has been in any previous edition as well. Saying marines in cover get a 2+ is great and all but to be in cover the entire unit has to be completely within a terrain piece, there is no more obscured anymore.

There's more than just one of us asking for a new Leman Russ, fuckface.

And you have absolutely shit taste in models.

>that the joke

yeah, but tiny baneblade user, I know you aren't the one posting the other shitty tanks. Which is the user I was insulting.

Find a way to actually mass produce tiny baneblades at the cost of Russes and we'll talk.

>You have stockholme syndrome. It's god awful. You might as well ask for the tiny orks or little malformed marines from the same time period back. Do you think the Warbuggy is similarly iconic?

I'm sure Marine players want their "iconic" Land Raider back...

>says the faggot posting retarded backwards Russes and 3rd party knock-offs that are the worst thing anyone has ever seen
The Russ looks awesome with the sponsons on. It's built like a landship, like an armoured steamboat on treads. It's got a forward leaning, predatory look to it, with all the weapons forward and the sloped back.

Actual world war 2 tanks all look like fucking ass.

or touching the terrain piece. Or within an inch if it's a barricade.

And now terrain doesn't slow down moving. so you can get into the trees, ruins, crater, rubble, etc.
Also, put down more terrain covering the ground then.

why weren't there this many autists screaming at Marine players for wanting to keep their tiny deformed marinelets?

I get the feeling all the Anons who don't want the Leman Russ model to change either have never played Imperial Guard before and don't want one of the more popular factions ever getting a cooler looking tank than they have, or they're long-time Guard players with a whole garage full of Leman Russes who believe a new model will magically invalidate all the models they've already bought and painted.

>Find a way to actually mass produce tiny baneblades at the cost of Russes and we'll talk.

Ask GW for a new Leman Russ and they will probably produce tiny baneblade. I can't wish them into existence but GW sure can if they see a market opportunity.

>Actual world war 2 tanks all look like fucking ass.
You have actual shit taste

Because the Primaris Marines (at least the basic Tacticals) actually look better.

All the "better" Russ options being posted here look FAR worse, it's just some historical weapons-grade autists trying to wank to their history books.

It's less that and more the same reason that people like the retarded looking boxnauts.

Their tank already looks great, and half of the time when GW updates things these days they fucking ruin them.

>The Russ looks awesome with the sponsons on.

You have severe brain damage.

> It's built like a landship, like an armoured steamboat on treads.

It would literally roll over foreward if it was going down a hill.

>It's got a forward leaning, predatory look to it, with all the weapons forward and the sloped back.

It has the foreward leaning predatory look of someone with severe downs syndrome.

That wasn't me, you stupid autistic dick-sucking queer. I don't like the backwards Russ either. And I wasn't posting it.

And your "landship" looks like the first thing it does in an actual battle is literally fall apart all on its own.

or we'll get we could get that. And then they'd raise the price 20%.
I don't care what the original model was costed at, this is GW. They'd raise the price at least 20%.

Thoughts on pic related?

Think GW shit will get cheaper when the pound dives in a few months when they get fucked by the EU?

TINY BANEBLADE FUCKS YOUR MOTHER AND SHE WANTED IT BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING HOT AS HELL

I just can't imagine what kind of bonuses they're going to give a marine army in the codex book to make me want to run one.

I can literally take 27 point guard mortar squads. What the fuck is the marine codex going to give me that makes me want to run a pure marine force instead of running half my list as guard and only using marines to assault with? Assaulting is the only things marines are better at than the rest of the imperium, in all other roles guard is more point efficient.

>it's just some historical weapons-grade autists trying to wank to their history books.

The ironic thing is that you're wanking to a World War 1 history book if you're so gay for the current Leman Russ.

We had a lot of false flaggers but ultimately the choice to keep or buy new was up to them entirely, and everyone was satisfied.

Having a new tank kit need not replace the Russ, just add a new chassis to the motorpool and satisfy everyone with the choice of model.

A more contemporary-styled tank would appeal to higher-tech Guard armies going for a sleeker (comparatively) aesthetic, while those going for a little more Krieg could have their legacy Russ just fine.

I am willing to take the risk that the new model would look like shit. You know why? Because the old model looks like shit.

>forward leaning, predatory look to it
I busted out laughing. It looks like a beached wale with a gun strapped to it. It's side profiles just scream "kill me now!"

>calling people autistic while he spergs out textbook autism-style because not everyone agrees with his shitty views on what makes a good tank
Yeah nah I'm not taking this shitty bait anymore, you're either a master troll or too retarded to function.

breddy fuggin gay :DDDDD

I feel like I am missing something put dont cultists have trash leadership and kind of die in boatloads? I am always afraid of taking them now because almost anything will make them crumple from morale.

Eeehh... looks kinda okay I guess. Maybe if the kits were cheap I'd pick one up as a failed STC that my Genecult stole.

That pic you posted looks fucking awesome, it's kind of shitting all over your argument.

Isn't that what the Malcador is for?

What app are you using for these lists?

>It's side profiles just scream "kill me now!"
Why?