Sigmar replaces the Emperor in 40K

In other words, Sigmar was born a human, grew up as a human and learned as human before being elevated to god hood. The Emperor was basically given all his powers from the get go and had no human grounding to learn from.

The emperor wishes he was sigmar

Sigmar has a beard, so everything would obviously go far better in his Imperium.

The gem on his stomach armor reminds me of Emp and Sanguinus

>given all his powers
The Emperor was a human mate. He literally was raised on Terra.

He lived in a mud hut too.

Fuck he basically witnessed the story of cain/abel first hand. Well, at least the one it would be based on.

but he didn't grow as a human. it wasn't long after his birth that he knew what he was.

It only states 'youth' but he clearly indicates in the birth of End-Of-Empires he was not powerful at that point.

>darker setting
>super artillery that not even giants living in the empire can survive
>good chance of actually growing old for the populous
>elves, dwarves, ogres, hobbits, all living in more or less peace with humans in the empire or are on friendly terms with them
>higher standard of living than in 40k
Yeah no.

To add, it was only after burying his father that he basically unlocked what he was, through a vision of him being murdered by his Uncle.

This story, however, is completely plausibly a lie. It's contradicted by the story told in Vengeful Spirit, although that is an equally, if not more so, unreliable source.

Dude, 7 of the 8 Realms are living wasteland hellholes ruled by Chaos with an iron fist.

Everyone in them are either slaves or hunted prey by the Chaos hordes.

>ogres, hobbits, all living in more or less peace with humans
>>>>hobbits
>>>>>>ogres living in peace with humans

The Emperor was born a Perpetual and these guys are gifts of their own usually the psychic kind. In other words he was born an immortal psyker. What he received from his murder of his uncle is the knowledge that mankind needed to be controlled.

What he got in Molech was empowerment by the Chaos Gods to godhood and the knowledge he needed to create the Primarchs.

>if not more so, unreliable source.

It seems to me you are being an asshole trying to poke nonexistent holes in fluff you don't like.

Alivia Sureka and the Angel of Fire are not "unreliable source".

He probably would have gotten raped by a bunch of orks in a mountain again.

>would he have been a better ruler?
You can hardly be worse ruler than god emperor of fail. So probably he would fare better.

>How would he have treated the primarchs?
Probably as people, if he would create them at all. Sigmar build his Empire on human work alone, and his Empire survived millennia by using humans wits and determination and not supersoldiers.

>What about xenos?
Allied, integrated or exterminated. Orks would be hunt down, he would probably try to strike a deal with Eldar. Eldar might teach humans warp shit like Teclis did, as Magnus was a Sigmar reborn or some shit, so Sigmar himself would probably act in a similar way.

Imperium would be also a lot more diverse, as Sigmar did not broken tribes that made an Empire but just named them "Provinces".

>He probably would have gotten raped by a bunch of orks in a mountain again.
user...
It was orks that were brutally fucked at Black Fire Pass by Sigmar and dwarves

The only things we truly know about Molech are from Alivia. Of which a lot of what she said is feelings on the matter. She felt he was vastly different and we know he must have been on some level: he got off the planet.

The rockets still there, so he teleported off Molech afterwards. Either he had the ability before and just didn't use it (unlikely) or gained the ability.
So the question then revolves around what the Emperor did in the portal. It's assumed to be chaos, but it could be any level of deities and powers that preside in the warp. It could be the Screaming God-Child from fantasy, it could be any or all of the 4 gods, it could be simply the most powerful glass of kool-aid to exist. What we do know is that whatever power the chaos gods can give to its champions, pale in comparison to this.

So, ultimately, this is no normal gift or benefit from the gods. They have no control or sway over the Emperors soul, if he has one. We know Perpetuals do have soul...at least

>age of shitmar

Ogres live in Hochland, halflings in the moot. There are some dwarves teaching gunners in Nuln, and elves are also there at times.

Sorry, Ostland. Ogres live in Ostland.

In the not-AoS lore sigmar was last seen heading to the worlds edge mountains that was populated by Black Orcs.
Sorry to say this but he was probably blacked.

She saw what was in his mind when he came out and she says that he stole his power from them. Which is why the Emperor was powerless to seal the gate or come in contact with the Chaos Gods. Because drawing near the Chaos Gods would be lethal to him because of the fact that he stole from them.

And forgot to address the Angel of Fire bit.

I don't know much about the Angel of Fire to comment on it, and nor did you expand on it yourself.

Also I do not remember the part about the Gates at all here. She could have sealed it, given she did later. So that wasn't the plan at the time. The Emperor wanted her to guard it. The only motive for doing this would be to save it for later use, agian.

Wtf is this shit?
Emperor is created when a collective of shamans sacrificed themselves to merge into one perfect being that will guide the humanity.

That super shaman aka. Emperor guided humanity behind the scenes for many thousands of years but by the 30th millenium he had enough of that and decided a direct intervention is necessary.

All off this bullshit new fluff is a spit in the ancient lore of 40k. Fuck these edgy BL writers who think they can change something just because they can.

>my thirty year old fluff cannot be changed despite almost all of it being retconned by just third edition fluff
Seriously, this is pretty much nothing at this point. Also claiming BL is edgy when spouting Realm of Chaos is fairly comical.

I am not saying it cannot be changed. I am saying it is 10/10 shit with no logic.
A setting where hurr durr chaos planned everything from the start, chaos winz in the end. haha imperial fags get out mentality is retarded.

Also you dont know what edgy means.
Edgy is used when try hard faggots that cuts cats in back alleys but cries like a bitch when the cat scratches his fat fingers.

Being willing to present himself as Divine would solve a lot of issues. Lorgar would be 99% less likely to fall to Chaos, essentially preventing the HH.

And if shit does go down he's actually about the same power level as the Chaos Gods.

This is a good point.

You've just described basically every single GW writer since the dawn of time.

>Aware his position doesn't mean he's always right.
>Knows at the end of the day the only reason he got here was his martial ability, so generally humble, but not a pushover.
>Willing to devolve power to people who know what they're doing.
>Actively seeks to make allies, while being a good judge of character.

Things go infinitely better.

Any parents here? The emperor treats the primarichs like a parent treats children. Because experience wise and intellect wise they are.

I have two boys. 6 and 4. If I were to explain my actions to them or explain my directing of them for them to comply, I would set the precedent of having to do so every time, stripping my authority. Half of what I explain to them would go over their heads anyway and therefore from their perspective be insufficient. They simply don't have the experience or intellect yet to understand. So it's in the interest of time, authority, and them being loyal and accepting my action and direction of their action that I don't explain everything beforehand. If they really want to know afterwards, I will explain the situation to them as best and as detailed as I can, I owe it to them, but only after. Even when this happens and I do explain it all in detail theyre still children and don't understand some of it because they have yet to have the experience of intellect.

The emperor treats the primarchs appropriately. To treat them as peers would undermine the situation very quickly indeed.

I assume you're talking about the WFB Sigmar, since he's the only sigmar worth mentioning.
If we assume he had the same powers the emperor had during the Great Crusade, things would be very different.

For a start, Sigmar would've never created the primarchs. He was a warrior first and a ruler second. He loved to get his hands dirty.

Secondly, sigmar is a force of nature, Emps is an analytical mastermind. Sigmar created the empire almost by accident, because he was a born leader. He was burdened by rule, but he didn't plan it from the get go.

All in all, Sigmar's Imperium would be much more spontaneous and less bogged down in beaurocracy, but also much weaker and less united. Sigmar never gave a fuck about what his subjects believed or what culture they had. If it happened to be chaos worship, sigmar wouldn't bother to hide the truth, he'd just personally stomp every chaos worshipper out of existence or cut out the kanker that is the eye of terror by exterminating every world around it

What? Sigmar did plan the empire, because only united could humanity ever hope to withstand the horrors of the world.
He wouldn't genocide all those aliens, and he'd make alliances with many.
So his imperium would be like the Tau empire but less weeabo faggot.

Sigmar didn't think about uniting the human tribes until he became king of the unberogens after his father's death against the Norsii.
And even then, it was out is sheer necessity.

The emps planned his imperium since the get go, actively trying to guide mankind from the shadows and then stepping in during the dark age of technology

Then you haven't been paying attention. The Emperor couldn't close the gate because the powers he stole from the Chaos Gods made him vulnerable to them.

And the Angel of Fire has an entire chapter on it.

The dream of uniting the tribes was in him long before he became a king.

By the way, the Emperor gave up hope in MoM while Sigmar never gave up hope even in his darkest of hours facing the EVIL THAT IS ARCHAON EVERCHOSEN LORD OF THE END TIMES

This. Even the light of the imperium during the crusades under the direct supervision of the Emperor Himself was the mere slightest blip of goodness compared to the grandeur that humanity had achieved and the Emperor had seen and achieved before Old night.

Even with the knowledge that it could all eventually be had again, the Emperor lost hope.

>end memes
Archaon got kicked in the dick by a black orc that fucked off east to find better fighters.

He didn't give up hope, his current webway plan just blew up in his face and he was pissed.

Sounds like after his conversation with Guilliman that he is still kicking (and is described in some ways as even more powerful than he was pre-throne, probably in terms of psychic might). So he's probably got plan b, c, all the way down to z figured out too and implementing.

Hell who knows if he's the only OP human planning some pro-Imperium secret plans too, since now theres primarchs, saints, perpetuals, inquisitor sues, and all sorts of other special superhuman snowflakes that could all be working on their own deus ex machina superweapons right now too.

I have a feeling GW changed settings specifically to spite autists like you

Speaking of Archaon, why is Archaon so much cooler than Abaddon?

Cause he fucking won and doesn't have a top knot.

But granted he did have a shitload less competition.

And he probably won't win Age of Sigmar now that all the non-chaos factions will probably get loads of shit and overpowered subfactions (especially the Order alignment).

>humanity
Nope.
Sigmar never united humanity nor wanted to do it.
He united tribes of Empire, he did not intend to involve other nations in his Empire.
Unless you take about AoS, and I don't know anything about it.

So Sigmar as creator of IoM could create smaller empire allied with other human star empires and xenos realms.

In his defense it happened after he won against Valten(and was wounded or had damaged armor), and Grimgor is most badass orc in a setting.

Nah, he pretty much conceded that Chaos won. All that remains is the slow grind towards total defeat.

Don't lie to my face like that. I have read the goddamn Sigmar series.

Sigmar offered the Norsii and Bret tribes the chance to join. The refused.

>Cause he fucking won and doesn't have a top knot.

You wot?

Archaon does indeed have a topknot and he is destined to the very least destroy Sigmar according to the Eye of Sheerin.

it's the helmet

also the horse, but mostly the helmet

>Nah, he pretty much conceded that Chaos won. All that remains is the slow grind towards total defeat.

Well at the time he viewed the webway plan as the only way to beat chaos, so when it failed he rightfully so said shit that chaos won because they took out the webway, but that's a battle and not the war.

Hell even the Emperor acknowledges that he fucks up and doesn't know everything, and does say that he doesn't know what to do next. But he clearly has had some time over the next 10k years to come up with some backup plans, since he has fucking Legion of the Damned running around and his pet saint Celestine playing superfriends to bring back his favorite Creation.

And probably told his Custodes and Guilliman a bit more of what other shit he has planned. During that conversation in the Golden Throne.

No, they changed it to sell their most popular product in a brand they found lacking.

>And probably told his Custodes and Guilliman a bit more of what other shit he has planned. During that conversation in the Golden Throne.

According to "Dark Imperium", the Emperor spoke for the first time in 10K years to Girlyman and he saw him as a "rasp" to escape his "prison". It's unknown what went between to the two but Girlyman left the conversation disturbed and angry.

The Emperor has never treated his Primarchs as his sons. They did saw him as a father but to him they were tools and if he ever makes it look that way was to play along and keep them doing his shit. It has been stated many times the newest being in Dark Imperium book

That's the same one where he called him a creation right?

I'm pretty sure Guilliman and the Emperor talked a bit of shop about the Imperium's state of affairs as well, besides the ADB daddy hates me drama part.

Since Guilliman is running it after all.

Sorry to overturn your magical realm, but Orks reproduce asexually by spores released when they are killed. Their obsessive desire to fight is their reproductive urge. Fighting and winning is their version of no-strings sex.

There's no reason to assume they even have genitals.

>the Emperor spoke for the first time in 10K years to Girlyman and he saw him as a "rasp" to escape his "prison"

Is this meant to imply the Emperor has a way to escape being plugged into the Golden Throne forever, or was it just a metaphor?

user, the he got BLACKED because he got killed by black orcs.
You can also say Archeon got BLACKED by Grimgor.

He's probably working on it.

So GW can bring him back too and sell millions of God Emperor models.

Can't wait for the new meta of multiple lists of God Emperor LoW Custodes armies fighting each other. Deliciously heretical.

I mean he did give up his love for individuals when the son he was closest to broke his heart for ten thousand years and he became a psychic gestalt by eating the sacrificed souls of untold thousands of psykers. Hard to worry about individuals when your power is needed by all of mankind. Rowboat thinks he was never loved rather than that his father is fucked in the head even though acknowledges that that's probable in the passage just before, probably because Girlyman was upset about how things turned out and finds it easier to blame his father, and because he wasn't as close to him as some of the others.

He blames his father for Magnus the Red's fall despite him only falling due to Horus manipulating the space wolves who were supposed to just transport Magnus to Terra. Emps didn't believe Magnus about Horus because nobody wants to believe their son is a horrible corrupted daemon infused monster and it was a message sent through the warp so it's easier to not believe it when it had to go through hell: parents rarely want to believe their little shit is skipping homework, let alone plotting to usurp them in a violent insurrection.

>implying that isn't ghillie suit projecting his own insecurities onto the ancient past
Canon, but not true my friend.

He has a topkont now, in AoS, where he is going to be ultimately defeated as this user said

>emperor comes out
>the rules at this point say nothing about not being able to run multiples of the same named character
>Sly Marbo army becomes the meta because he deals mortal wounds and has 2++ save

>7
>sees thread about Emperor
>autistically runs into it to spew his garbage
Aaron, kill yourself.

Still he was much less autistic about it, as he did not try to exterminate them for refusing to join

He never considered the primarchs his sons, true. But he did treat them the way an adult treats a child. That was my point.

>Also claiming BL is edgy when spouting Realm of Chaos is fairly comical.

Realm of Chaos is dark but it's also rife with black humor and is ultimately pretty self-aware. I'd argue that it wasn't edgy at all, but 2nd edition and further Chaos are pretty edgy because they lose the dark humor and the self-awareness.

I think the biggest problem with 40k is that Americans just don't seem to understand British jokes

Shown his sons a fathers love.

And had he the same circumstances, knowledge, and resources as Emps, there is very strong arguments based on decades of medical and scientific research that Sigmar would have made very similar or the same conclusion if he was in the 40k universe.

Literally nothing you said disproved that. You compared completely different situations.

Arguably, if Chaos destroyed the Imperium and "won" while the Emperor had an opportunity to effectively get a reset button, E-Money might decide to not be a near-sociopath obsessed with elevating humanity beyond the threat of Chaos.

I would like to remind you that Sigmar abandoned everyone and went off to live in solitude on a mountain and did nothing while Chaos destroyed the entire universe before he discovered his give-a-fuck.

>Emps just standing around while some asshole beat his brother to death over an agricultural dispute

why didn't he break it up

Sigmar retreated to Azyr to work on his Stormcast plan. He didn't abandon the realms, he just couldn't help them as he was then and what he had then. Sigmar always gave a fuck and he never gave up hope.

Also Sigmar is vastly older than the Emperor being aeons old. He has seen universes and realities come to life. He witnessed the death and birth of gods. The evolution and extinction of entire races. He has met and fought the personification of oblivion and Chaos aka Archaon.

Despite all of this Sigmar maintained his humanity and love for all that is good and righteous. Simplt put, Sigmar is a better man. Their circumstances are very similar with the exception as I said Sigmar living in a universe dominated by the forces of Chaos.

Gir;lyman outright says that the Emperor's mind was utterly revealed to him laid bare to him. There is no hiding anything anymore. What he saw that the Emperor never loved any single being ever. He never lost it because he never had it in the first place.

And Girlyman blames the Emperor for Magnus because of the Great Lie about Chaos which led to it.

He didn't witness it firsthand. It happened long before he was born.

The birth of Drach'nyen occurred when the first sentient human killed another in cold blood.

Gurlyman is a twat that hid from the heresy till the lion told him to stop being a cunt
Gurlyman is a fucking spastic who doesn't realise the emperor killed his favourite son over a guardsman, not the rebellion alongside everything he's been working against, not the deaths of his other sons, a guardsman
Also, if the emps didn't give a fuck about them he'd have mind raped the fuck out of Horus straight away

The names of the new releases become even more retarded.

Dude, it's pretty much confirmed that they are going to rewrite the final fight.

The HH series editor said so. The former IP manager said so too. Now the rumour queen Lady Atila said that final fight would be vastly different than William King's version.

The Emperor will not hold back on Horus and there won't be any guardsman (Only the Perpetual Olly Pius who will likely stab Horus with his athame).

And Girlyman was locked behind the Ruinstorm and didn't know what happened outside in the wider galaxy. When he did he mobilised to Terra with the rest of the Primarchs there.

They haven't done so yet though, so till then emps still didn't go all out on his son which he supposedly never cared about, which still makes the point valid
Fuck their BL writers till that day, their shitty handling of the heresy is god awful, but even so the emps still struck his favourite son down over the death of a 'lesser' being
The emperor loves humankind more than any other character in the setting, and he clearly had emotions about his sons, and till they flat out change it with their new dogshit story that's the current canon

How I would do it is a "realm of order" situation where Eternals/Space Marines are summonable armies much like Daemon armies and chosen mortals are the leaders of on the physical side of things. Probably have another human faction who is terrified that either way, whoever wins just means reality is getting weaker and weaker. And probably add a not lizardman faction as some other long dead races memories fighting chaos.

You mean everything does 3 attacks who hit on a 3+, wound on a 3+, got -1 rend and two damage, saving on a 3+ right?