8th Edition Guard and T3 humanity thread

8th Edition Guard and T3 humanity thread

Thinking about putting some Death Cult Assassins in my Guard army. 9 in a Rhino with a Priest. Maybe roll up with some other units to assault first to eat the Overwatch or use an Inquisitor to cast Terrify.

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Remember, only Russes that matter now are LRBT, Punisher and Demolisher. Others can go fuck themselves. Get lascannons in front. Sponsons work pretty well now too, since vehicle facing is gone, so take meltas or plasma.

Get a Pask in a Punisher and make him order around two tank commanders in LRBT and Demolisher and you're golden. Also, get Hellhounds.

Artillery is amazing now. Two Manticores and two Basilisks with a Master of Ordnance will melt both heavy and light targets en masse.

Crusaders are also dope. 3+ invuln for super cheap, it's easier to get into assault, AND power swords are more versatile.

They are pretty dope. 2 attacks isn't much but I just noticed they have acts of faith and shield of faith. Kind of weird but also interesting. I gotta find some good crusader models. Same with death cults. I have 2 of each of the GW models but I don't want to buy a full squad of each.

That all sounds great. I just ordered another Manticore and those were the only Russes I used.

Thinking of using these guys with skitarri vanguard heads

BS2+ Punisher sounds delicious.

Pask is an auto include now. 2+BS Punisher which can give orders TWICE a turn to other LR AND LR Characters (tank commanders), meaning that you get two tanks with 3+BS which can reroll 1's. So, basically, you get 3 Pask's as long as the original Pask is alive. And in 8th, killing a LR is REALLY hard.

That sounds great, but expensive. Tank Commanders are like what, 35 extra points?

Had my first games this weekend. Having more command points then you can spend when others can barely field an army is great. Battle cannon isn't quite as bad as I thought it'd be, and flamers are great. Special weapon squads are fragile, but can fuck things up if you get them into a fight. Deep striking plasma with rerolls can knock out backline artillery and objectives with ease.

Oh, and there was this one guy who took Magnus down to 1/4 health in the first round only with his 2 Manticores in his very first game of 8th. Apparently you can reliably melt any powerful unit to 50% wounds with two of those, and if you're lucky, you can one shot almost anything.

Oh, and the minimal range on artillery is gone. Enjoy.

Lovely, it all sounds lovely. I can't wait to play. I just primed a ton of stuff. I am ready to try out my massive Bullgryn/Ogryn army with tanks and artillery and I'm excited to try out my Scion spam, Conscript spam, Harker/Officer/Heavy Weapon Squad spam and artillery spam army.

How could I field my mukaalis? They are far too big to be normal rough riders count-as, and the assholes at FW couldn't be arsed to spend 10 min to give them rules.

It looks confused and somewhat uncomfortable.

They don't seem too big to be Rough Riders. Just use them as that.

TC are 35 points extra, Pask is 45. Together, it's about the cost of a Chimera (guns included). But what you get for that price is basically three BS2+ Tanks. A Demolisher will one-shot a Dreadnaught 33% of the time. A single Punishersl will reliably delete entire squads of infantry (10 guardsmen or 5 marines) each round.

Just keep Pask alive and watch the fireworks. And while tour opponent tries to kill him, bombard that fucker with your Basilisks and/or Manticores.

can confirm, Flamers are amazing. I took the vanquisher over the battle cannon. That was a mistake i wont take again. Might try out the punisher too. Forgot to add the sponsons. Overall its a weird and confusing time to be a guard player.

It's trying to understand how it can be so beautiful and at the same time a ruthless killing machine.

Well, just the base is wildly different. The normal RR's base is the long one used for cavalry and motorcycles, whereas these cuties use 50?mm rounds. In firendlies it would probably fly, but in tourneys I'm not so sure

Hellhounds are a 16" auto hit with D2. This is beyond sweet.

Could always replace the base.

dont own any Hellhounds senpi

You know what you must do, soldier. Those fast attack slots won't fill themselves.

By the way, is there any army which can beat the Guard in command points? 3 to start, 9 for a relatively easy to fill Brigade, 2 for Creeeeed! - that's 14 right off the bat. Even in their most basic use, this is 14 re-rolls when you most need them.

Get a Chimera kit for 40% less moneyz, keep off the guns from the lasgun array, slap a bunch of spare infantry flamer fuel tanks on top of the tank, saw off the gun choke of the multilaser and stick/glue/magnetize the head of an (infantry) flamer there. Take the heavy flamer hull gun.

Bam, cheap, tournament legal, super effective hellhound. Bonus points if you magnetize that shit and can use the tank both as Hellhound AND Chimera when you feel like it.

I wonder if Vultures will still get +1BS from strafing run. 40 punisher shots against ground targets at BS3+ would be heaven.

okay, so question about infantry squads.

it says 'two other guardsman may form a heavy weapons teams"

Does this mean I can table 1 sergeant, 7 guardsmen and 1 heavy weapons team as part of an infantry squad?

or

Do I need to pay for extra guardsmen so that I'm still tabling the minimum 9 guardsmen?

Might have been me with the Magnus story, I managed to get him to 1/2 health using 1 manticore. Rolled an 11 for hits, and that damage stacks quickly!

Scions are god tier, Inquisitors are odd but playable and guard characters can get power weapons (that are mildly effective) for very reasonable prices now.

In short, Inquisitorial Stormtrooper lists are FUCKIN BACK BABY

I cant wait to see Hector Rex's stats and they've basically confirmed Inquisitors/acolytes will be able to buy armor again in the Imperial Agents codex once it comes out.

Also protip: If you're going to take a rhino for your Inquisitor and his acolytes, take a sisters rhino. A few points extra for shield of faith is totally worth it.

Experience varies. I had a battery of two manticores, a baskisk, and a wyvern with a master of ordance, and it was only able to kill one necron vehicle per turn.

The heavy weapon model replaces 2 lasgun models, you still need to pay extra for the lascannon though

The way its worded, you pay for all 10 guardsmen and then just replace 2 with the heavy weapons team. That's 8 normal lasgun dudes and the HWT.

So 40 points + cost of the heavy gun.

The "other" part of that is just specifying that the two guardsmen that form the HWT cannot have vox-casters.

ahk, thanks for clearing it up for me.

Upvoted, liked and subscribed.

I cant wait for the Elysian list to come out. Being Elysians is suffering atm

How does LoS work for guard infantry squads firing through each other ? Would rather take a (sort of ) blob of regular troopers rather than conscripts .

Fuck yes that's exciting.

I'm still debating on using my Sisters of Silence models as power weapon wielding Acolytes for Greyfax. I know I could use them as Sisters of Silence obviously, but they just look so good paired up with Greyfax's model. Not to mention the 3 Wounds and 2+ ability they have to absorb wounds for the Inquisitor means they are super appealing.

Not a huge fan of S3 Power Swords though. I'd prefer Mauls. Not sure I could get away with their greatswords as count as Power Mauls.

i have a squad of veterans and a squad of scions
should i buy another infantry squad to play with them as the main force and keep the scions in reserve
or should i get another scion squad and have them be the muscle, and keep my veteran squad as an autocannon squad

i already sold my kidney, so i cant but conscripts

If they all use the same melee weapon, swords as mauls should be ok.

I hope so. It's just a lazy count as, but I don't want to change anything. They look fantastic and even more so as Greyfax's entourage.

Is it worth supporting the LR with Tech priest?

Just buy some toy elephants and stick guardsmen on them. Bonus points for heavy weapons teams on their backs.

Perry miniatures are cheaper and better if you don't play at a GW store.

The Dark Elf riders could be good RRs though.

I'm currently using Sisters of Thorn as my Rough Riders. They remind me of that Horizon PS4 game's main girl. I cut their ears so they look human.

I do play at the GW store. They let me use some 3rd party minis for like 1-2 characters, but they get picky if I bring more.

>Inquisitor led squad of acolytes with venom pistols and mauls
I need a second melee squad to join in on the fun. Crusaders? or just a second acolyte unit?

I was thinking a similar thing. I'd prefer Death Cults to be honest. Load up 9 with a Priest and you have 40 attacks that re-roll hits on the charge. You can use Terrify to make sure they don't eat any overwatch.

They aren't as survivable as Crusaders, but they will delete hordes and T4 infantry.

Survivability is what I was worried about honestly. These guys are going to be the speartip though so dishing out more attacks to break units is more important.

Oh I just realized something. Crusaders might be almost as good in the attack department. They have Acts of Faith. You could get them to fight twice per turn. With a Priest each one could be pumping out 6 attacks a turn.

It even says at the start of each of your turns, so you can fight twice in his turn too. Not bad. I may have to look into getting some Crusader type models.

Run both. Crusaders up front in a Rhino. Deploy in a 3x3 + 1 brick with the priest in the middle. Crusaders eat Overwatch and get stuck in, either forcing the enemy to flee or allowing the DCA charge without getting shot at.

should i go with HWT loaded with mortars?
or should i rely on embedded veteran squads for that BS3+

My personal plan is to have Harker with 2 mortar squads and 2 lascannon squads with 2 commanders. That way they re-roll 1s to hit and to wound.

You can have the inquisitor cast terrify to negate over watch too.

Can tank commanders order themselves?

They can't. Pask can order Tank Commanders though. There is debate if he can issue them to himself, but it's likely to be FAQ'd. Until it's clear, I'd treat it as that he can't. But if you take 3 Lemans, 2 Tank Commanders and Pask, you get some seriously good BS commanders. BS2+ Pask and BS3+ with re-rolling 1s with the other Tank Commanders.

Expensive, but they dish out tons of damage if you make them all Punishers or Demolishers.

Good lord even just making a goofy list is a powertrip now. Even with me trying to take purposefully goofy stuff it's a bit of a powertrip, and that's with the retard 512pts vanguard detachment bolted on. My meta is casual as fuck so I'm worried even this is a bit much

+++ New Roster (WH40k 8th) [1500 Pts] +++

++ Vanguard (Astra Militarum) [512 Pts] ++

+ Elites +

Sergeant Harker [50 Pts]

Veterans [99 Pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Heavy Flamer, 5x Lasgun, 3x Plasma Gun

Veterans [114 Pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Heavy Flamer, 5x Lasgun, 3x Meltagun

+ HQ +

Company Commander [45 Pts]: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera [102 Pts]: Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

Chimera [102 Pts]: Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

+ 'Faction +

Regiment Selection: Catachan

++ Brigade (Astra Militarum) [988 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Conscripts [90 Pts]: 10x Additional Conscripts

Conscripts [90 Pts]: 10x Additional Conscripts

Infantry Squad [63 Pts]: Autocannon, Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad [63 Pts]: Autocannon, Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad [63 Pts]: Autocannon, Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad [63 Pts]: Autocannon, Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma Gun

+ Elites +

Command Squad [50 Pts]: Lasgun, 3x Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard

Commissar [31 Pts]: Bolt Pistol

Commissar [39 Pts]: Plasma Pistol, Power Sword

Commissar [35 Pts]: Bolt Pistol, Power Sword

+ HQ +

Company Commander [30 Pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [30 Pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [30 Pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Fast Attack +

Armored Sentinels [50 Pts]
. . Armored Sentinel: Multi-Laser

Armored Sentinels [50 Pts]
. . Armored Sentinel: Multi-Laser

Rough Riders [55 Pts]: Chainsword, 5x Hunting Lance, Plasma Pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [57 Pts]: 3x Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [72 Pts]: 3x Missile Launcher

Heavy Weapons Squad [27 Pts]: 3x Mortar

+ 'Faction +

Regiment Selection: Cadian

Best unit size for tough riders? Also what's their best use?

I think that the Plasma tank is better than LRBT, rerolling 1s from Pask makes the overload a safe choice.

Trying something like this out for my LGS 8th ed opening day.

Bat De +3

Hqs
C Commander 30 +5 Plasma Pistol
Tempester Prime 60 +5 Plasma Pistol
Primaris Psyker 40 Force Stave

Elite
Commissar 31
Vindicare Assassin 90

Troops
30 Con 3x30
30 Con 3x30
10 Scions HSLas5 4 Plasma Guns 7pts 1 Plas Pistol 5pts

Spear Head D +1

HQ
WL Pask 177 Punisher 20 Lascannon 20

HS
2 LR w/ Plasma Cannon 132+20
Plasma Cannonsx2 15Per
Lascanon 20

1 LR w/Demo Cannon 132+40
Heavy Flamer x3 51

1 LR w/Battle Cannon 132+22
Lascanon 20

HWs 12 Lascanon x3 60
HWs 12 Lascanon x3 60

1491

7 CPts

Am I on the right track?

6 mortal wounds for a failed roll is not a safe choice. A re-roll can be a 1 too, you know. Just try throwing some dice around and see how it goes. On average, this shit explodes in your face on the third shot WITH Pask. Remember that many vehicles will now still be alive on round 5, so paying for a LR to kamikaze a single moderately good attack is a bad idea. Meanwhile, LRBT is good for long range shooting and while the damage is not impressive, it's quite solid (especially with 3+BS and re-rolling 1's from Pask) no matter the target.

>conscripts meme

I love all these people who have never used conscripts before acting like it's the end of the world.

Conscripts are awesome, don't get me wrong, but they're literally there to die. The only way they get any utility is characters. T3, 4-5 wounds tops, characters. Even with 200 shots per unit they're going to do pretty pitiful damage to anything other than massed infantry, and in melee even if you buff them with guys like straken and Uriah they're not doing a ton of damage. Not to mention they can't even tarpit anymore since you can just fall back for free and nail them with other units.

Yes, you can no longer just laugh at hordes, you're going to have to actually plan on an active way to deal with them. My god, a strategy game that needs strategy, the horror. No, 1,000 conscripts is not going to take top table across the country at tournaments. Any guard player who actually used the damn things will tell you that. For tournaments, let's look at the issues they have

>absolute bitch to transport
>absolute bitch to set up
>absolute bitch to deploy, even with blasts gone
>incredibly reliant on proper character placement and backup
>stupid amounts of dice to roll
>did I mention how much time they use up, even if you're used to using them? Because holy shit, they take a long time to play


In casual play, let's think about other issues that pop up

>some insane person has to buy that many guardsmen for a WAAC flavor of the month list. Only truly dedicated IG players who have been playing for years will be able to swing around a guard army in the 200's, let alone bigger than that.
>He then has to assemble and paint said guardsmen, an undertaking that could take months even if you devoted time every day to it.
>He has to figure out how to play it without going insane

I think you guys are safe. Now orks on the other hand, those fuckers are scary

which is better for most purposes, the plasma or the battle cannon?

>literally posting your favorite blog on the subjects
Pretty quick way to get ignored partner

whats the best way to run HWTs>
autocannons or mortars?

autocannons

I'd pick Battle cannon any time, plasma is underwhelming compared to BC with standard shot and when supercharged it is just too risky. If one would lose just one mortal wound instead, I'd even consider plasma.

more like dorks amirite

This and also range advantage. You use that tank to pop shots on those models in the back your opponent thinks are safe while Punisher and Demolisher deal with front lines. And even if you can't, it's still a decent support tank, especially with orders.

Math says Heavy Bolter for GEQs and MEQs, Lascannon for everything else. Autocannons are WORSE than Las even when it comes to hitting Marines an Primaris (by 2%, but still), because 2 shots with -1AP is worse than 1 with -3AP for models with a 3+ save.

Mortars

Interesting. SOB player here, not guard but it's nice to know the Heavy Bolter has actually made a resurface as a decent heavy weapon this edition. Been looking at it for my Retributors.

>Math says Heavy Bolter for GEQs and MEQs
What does math says about that "ignore LOS" trait of mortar?

I'd say every heavy weapon is good this edition except the autocannon. Too expensive for what it can do. If it was 10 points it might be worth it, but not for 15 where you can get a heavy bolter and plasma gun for the same price.

The autocannon has better range. NEXT.

It says that it's viable, but HB is still generally more efficient.

Where have they confirmed that? It'd be awesome if it's true. It's rather stupid that so many miniatures (inquisitors, canonesses) are illegal as per the new rules.

So now you're all 'that guy' with the most overpowered army what other army will you be playing?

Or will you not care and just be a WAAC fag?

>implying I give a flying fuck
Guard will always be my faction.

I've played Guard and Inquisition since 3rd and I'll still play it.

However, now that we're considered a strong faction, I'm going to make fun lists that I always wanted to make since a lot more of our index is viable now. Bullgryn, Straken, Rough Riders, Infantry squads with melee, Inquisitor with Acolytes, Death Cults and Crusaders, Celestine and shit like that. And of course, my 30 man Conscript blob I used every game of 7th.

Maybe the occasional heavy weapon squad and conscript spam list, but mostly I'll run all my favorite units now. In 7th I ran into strong lists and taking the fun stuff I wanted to take resulted in me watching all my favorite units do nothing but tank shots and die.

I'll play my Vostroyans no matter what. I have my necrons on the side.

I'd go ahead and hold off on making any decisions until next week when imperial guard didn't place in any event across the entire country because they are garbage

If you have targets to shoot at.

There's no real decisions to make. I already own a ton of models and have them ready to play. Maybe they are worse in this edition than people think, but that's fine. The meme that they were always "mid-tier" was a funny joke considering they were slightly above Tyranids and Orkz in 7th.

But every bat rep and story I've heard has Guard winning games by means of tabling or close to it.

I don't mean to ruin your fun, I'm sure that your army is going to be great.

Thanks dad. Either way it swings I'm fine. I stomped in 5th and got stomped in 7th.

Exactly, it's viable.

Not worth it.

Yeah, guess so. The way to fix it is giving her Heavy d3, S7 AP -1 D d3.

the master of the fleet might give them that.

Ofc you also get -1 for shooting with heavy weapons if you moved

I really like death korps of krieg and militarum tempestus. How do i make a competitive list with these two? Is it possible to play them together? Money is not a problem.

read the books
learn the armies
buy the models
put them together
play the game

No need to thank me

You should be able to use them together FW is going to release their rules at some point but you can use the normal Guard rules too. MT are really good now. Cheap, troops, strong transport, deep striking special weapons and full squads of 10 get to have 4 special weapons. Plus they are one of the only troop weapons that have such good ap.

I will thank you anyway, user!

Yeah the idea is to use them as standard IG if the FW rules are shit. I just like the looks of those models!!

I have 3 Chimeras and a Taruox Prime. I'm thinking of filling 2 Chimeras with 4 Bullgryn each, another Chimera with Veterans and some Characters and I think I'll use the Taurox Prime for my Inquisitor and her Acolytes.

Not sure what else to bring with that army. I have 60 Conscripts, 2 Basilisks, a Manticore and some Lemans. That might be a good round out to the force.

I've been playing IG since 5th and I've stuck with infantry guard through thick and thin. People can get fucked if they want to bitch about my army now after I've had to deal with riptides and knights with nothing but guardsmen back in 7th.

Also, we're not even the most powerful army, I'd say that's definitely going to be at least Nids or Orks if you really want to meme about hordes being OP.

Autocannon will be better on the move, which this edition will have a lot of. Autocannons will make good weapons for line infantry squads which can be expected to fall back and move around a lot.

They're not great for dedicated HWS's, but Autocannons are still a good choice for infantry squads in my opinion. Heavy bolter may be more brutally efficient by an infintismal degree but I'm not a tourneyfag and .02 is not going to make a difference.

Also I already own something stupid like 18 autocannons, I'm not going to replace all my teams overnight because of a slight inefficiency in points when most of the rest of my army got cheaper across the board.

Manticore and Basilisks are a must. Try to get two of each. Get them a MoO and watch your artillery delete everything.

One or two LR will make great front line support. Those bastards are hard to bring down. Conscripts with a Commissar and an officer to issue them orders are both great meatshields and solid front line soldiers for their cost. Remember that your veterans can now take a heavy flamer, 3 additional special weapons (plasma or melta are both fine) AND a HW team (preferably a lascannon or a HB), plus their sarge may take a power sword and a plasma pistol. They are rather easy to kill, but can dish out damage like there's no tomorrow, outclassing even some SM specialized squads for far less points. Ultimate glass cannons, whose job is to get in position and hit as hard as they can.

Good news user: while autocannons are slightly worse than HB against light to medium infantry, and significantly worse than lascannons against medium and heavy targets, they are the most rounded HW of them all and can be used against most targets without feeling like a total waste of points. If you want to field only one type of a HW they will prove the best choice.

Depends. Mortar spam is a cheap as shit way to kill infantry. A hws of mortars is only 27 points. Wont do well against heavy units though.

Perfect. I have 2 Bassies and 2 Manticores.

>Remember that your veterans can now take a heavy flamer, 3 additional special weapons (plasma or melta are both fine) AND a HW team (preferably a lascannon or a HB)
Also perfect. I got a Vostroyan squad along with 3 Plasmas and Lascannon. Since they come with a flamer model I can use that as the heavy flamer.

Thank you user, for telling me the good stuff. I have all of it coincidentally and now I can use it.

Mate i love the guard because of what they represent, drowning the enemy in your own blood. Them being viable now just adds icing on the cake.

Those would be sick for a tallarn regiment.

Currently considering the viability of snipers, which ones do you guys like? Ratings look fun to play with their move after shooting, but a vindicare seems more destructive. Would allying in some (converted) skitarii arquebusiers be better still? A squad with 2 is only 10 pts more than a vindicare

If I'm remembering right someone did the math and a vindicaire's points in ratlings still does more damage than him.

The only reason I can think of to take the guy is if you can't guarantee hiding the ratlings every turn with shoot sharp and scarper.

Which you should be able to do if you're not a mouth breathing simpleton, it's a straight up better version of jump shoot jump.

I have 4 snipers to make for a command squad of 4, 8 Ratlings and a Vindicare. Not sure which one to use either. I was thinking Vindicare and one of the other ones.