Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Cybernetic-Icelanders-At war with other cybernetic-Icelanders

At least that's the vibe I've gotten.

>"Tyrant" was the word used for a lot of Syracuse's leaders
Tyrant was a common institution across the Greek World.

Tyrant was our equivalent of a dictator back then, it's only American cultural hegemony that makes us hate dictator anyway

How the fuck are the iron hands Greek, stoicism is not exclusively Greek

>I shall fight until I need to stop fighting
>shortsighted
user I-
Names are assigned at random because they were public schoolboys, it's what happens with names
If ADB could retcon so much why didn't he make the UM more dicks to the WE considering WE are Roman slaves

Speak for yourself. Democratic societies are more easily divided and conquered due to the fractions in leadership, one will is always more efficient.

>What is Meduson
>What is the Gorgon
>REEEE

He didn't want to make it too obvious.

Having a couple Greek named things doesn't mean the legion culture is Greek.

If anything the XX are more culturally Greek than anybody.

>implying even in an autocracy you don't have political opponents wishing to seize power
NAMES, are the salamanders Roman now because they have centurions

>one will is always more efficient.
It's potentially more efficient, but it depends entirely on who you get and it isn't always going to be good. Same as with monarchies, except those are worse because of the inbreeding. The 'unity' in a dictatorship is a front; those countries are often pretty unstable. Both my parents grew up in different dictatorships, and there was much less social cohesion than after democraticizing - everyone just held it in, so it festered and couldn't improve until democratization let everyone air their grievances and start working through them.

Democracy's got issues, but the ability to oust leaders after a few years without starting a war is a godsend.

Imperial names may be Greek or Latin based, sure (the Principia Belicosa ends up being the IRL Strategikon), but themes are a thing and for the 80's eurocentric British game designers, the "old world" was Greece and Vikings ft "those guys to the east".
Lucky me, I like the greeks, but saying competing clan land-crawlers aren't city-states isn't true.

>Both my parents grew up in different dictatorships,
Which ones?

>the old world
The fuck is wrong with you this always meant Europe and Asia, Americas is new world
I think you mean classical for ancient Greeks and actual Persians ruling Persia

>Vulkan
>Greek god of smithing, associated with fire, made most of the weapons of his godly kin
Gee, total blackface that guy huh.
Besides Nocturne being a fiery death world with 7 cities (one of them the literal Hades), filled with reptiles, black people and smiths, what else is in that planet of hats?
Otherwise we know about it as much as the White Scars' Mundus Planus, aka Chogoris, where they do it mongol style and have horse clans in the steppes.
And that's about the legion nobody really knows about.
See how the beloved of the people are as fluffed as the guys nobody know about? What kind of theme can you pull out of that lack of fluff besides "world of hats"?
A fucking typo making Vulkan oppose the codex astartes years after he was killed on Istvaan V was the only thing that allowed Kyme to do whatever he wanted with Vulkarine: Immortal. A fucking mistake.
So that's your answer: it's not even fluffed, have an anvil and a hammer.

>Implying the Brits don't refer to the new world as "the colonies"
:^)

They still think they rule the world.

Hey, it's not like we conquered ALL of the Americas.

We call former colonies the colonies and the new world the new world, I could never be prime minister because id start the press conference with America by calling them rebels

>tfw no independent new found land because they all died at the Somme

Only the old gits or when drunk or sarcastic, nowadays. Which is always, at least for the last one.
The Yanks can have the job, left too many institutions around the place with massive delusions of grandeur and people with the same. I'm happy to try and keep this little island comfy and contribute in some small way to the development of mankind, but unfortunately all the politics in the world decided to go a bit insane at once and island comfiness is rapidly decreasing. At least some random dicks can't Death of Innocence the NHS or something. Oh wait.

You'd still be near Leafistan. One of these days the Day of the Rake will happen, and when it does this can happen the day after.

Why can't that happen now? Are my fellow Leaves being obstructionist? That doesn't sound like us.
thread thoroughly derailed

>complaining about British history in a quintessential British war game
This is why leaves should be burnt with the tiny samples of promethium we created so far

FFS can we start talking about how great the Primordial Truth is now?

Magnus did nothing wrong because his actions crippled the Emperor and set the stage for ultimate victory for Chaos.

gdi, I leave the thread for a day and look what happens. Have this freshly baked meme I found.

>can we start talking about how great the Primordial Truth is now?

haha

>lorgar isn't a deep red from the blood of the custodians
>guilliman has his modern armour
Y tho

I honestly don't know, Leaf. Maybe I just want the Raking to happen for the memes.

Explain how Perty wasn't the better builder and sieger

>Explain how Perty wasn't the better builder and sieger
He had 3x the legions, 4x the number of god-like beings and the height advantage at Terra and lost.
Also, the Emperor chose Dorn over Perturabo as Terra's praetorian.

You mean 2 Legions and the odd unit of non-IW/SoH that hadn't gone COMPLETELY bonkers, and an unknown number of highly unreliable shitheads.

Not really 3x. The EC weren't really helping, the NL had been shattered and weren't in full force, the TS remnants were small in number, and the AL weren't there. So more like 2x the legionnaires. You typically want a 3x advantage against a fortified position.

They were about to win, anyway. They were breaking through. Just not quickly enough to wrap things up before the DA and UM arrived.

Petty broke open the Imperial palace which was his only job. Not his fault all the other Daemon Primarchs were incompetent.

On a semi-related note why didn't any of the traitors Exterminatus Terra when it was clear Horus was dead and the battle was lost?

Because you need special ships to do that?

Kek they didn't. That's why we speak Spanish over here :^).
>I could never be prime minister because id start the press conference with America by calling them rebels
I like this Brit. +1 to all his tea.

Says who? You just need cyclonic torpedoes which the legions had.

His old armour has nowhere near the ammount of gold that the new one does

Do we know if abandon was in fact a horse clone
Loaded one at a time when you're trying to flee?

>for the whole of HH, Little Horus is constantly noted to be the most aesthetically similar to Horus
>Torgaddon is taller than Abaddon and Horus is taller than Torgaddon

And then, in Talon of Horus
>Horus and Abaddon are the same height
>impossible to tell them apart when they're face-to-face

So not only did Abaddon's facial structure change, but he grew 2-3 feet?

I remember the sieges by Perturabo vs the orks that repelled both the SW and WS (probably because neither of them spoke gothic), Dantioch vs Idriss Krendl the inventor of the Ironfire, Kyr Vhalen's and his buff to sieges, even when user pulled a Paramar inspired by his actions...
But all the siege we know of the IFs are two bits: Dorn becomin Praetorian for some fucking obscure reason that is NEVER mentioned and doesn't even discuss the specifics of fortifying Terra but insteads uses the Fist's bigger than average fleet to hold the Solar system...and a bit about fists building a fortress on each world they conquered. Singular fortress.
Oh you think that's an innovation? That's standard procedure.
The Fortress of Compliance built on Istvaan III that survived an exterminaturs and from where Tarvitz fucked Eidolon's army? Built by human hands: that world was conquered by the Raven Guard.
Despite supposedly their siege-y nature, we have no accounts about Imperial Fists even being on sieges besides the Battle of Terra and the 40k Sentinels of Terra supplement, where they're confused with the Black Templars.
In fact that's all we do know from the Fists:
How Black Templars are the only ones who aren't famous for geting BTFOd (OG Fists, Crimson Fists, Soul Drinkers, the other descendants aren't even famous at all), how they're good with shooting rifles and how they have a good fleet and are good at boarding, as seen at Phall.
At Phall they also launch three known boarding attacks, two of them fail.
But yeah, Imperial Fist sieges. I'm still waiting for them.

I always assumed Horus' clone was imperfect and shorter than the real Horus.

WTF Abaddon was smol?
I remember a Vindicare killing Horus in full regalia, tall as he ough to, face exposed, only to find it was a Chuck Testa that looked just like him.

>WTF Abaddon was smol?
Only a manlet could be butthurt for 10k years straight.

I have a liking for mass aerial landings, especially with a couple big gunships/carriers supported by smaller flyers and orbital support helping out entrenched shooty guys.

What army lets me go full Landing at Point Rain on some poor peoples?

>Ezekyle Abaddon, first captain of the Legion, was a towering brute. Somewhere between Loken’s height and Torgaddon’s, he seemed greater than both due to the cresting top-knot adorning his otherwise shaved scalp.

(Horus Rising)

>Ezekyle loomed, it was his thing, and he tried to loom over Sejanus as though he actually thought he could intimidate him. Ridiculous, as it was only the topknot that made him taller.

(Wolf of Ash and Fire)

Alvarex Maun, Master of Descent of the Raven Guard

>Manletaddon
>Can be killed by anyone with artificer + power fist because he's a Praetor that lacks a Paragon Blade.

I thought it came from the shields being expensive?

>Ezekyle loomed, it was his thing, and he tried to loom over Sejanus as though he actually thought he could intimidate him. Ridiculous, as it was only the topknot that made him taller.
This writing is awful. What the fuck McNeill?

pls do not bully the Warmaster!!!!11

but no seriously, how did he make up the height difference? Do Astartes keep growing, like lobsters, if you let them alone?

No, it just means win or die trying. The shield itself is irrelevant in the quote.

>Do Astartes keep growing, like lobsters, if you let them alone?
Nope, they do get older in all the senile scope of the word.
Cannon examples are old man Sigismund (presumably killed at the First Black Crusade) and Dantioch, who was tested to be around 3000 years old after the war with the Hrud and he's described struggling with moving just as older people are, but not an inch taller. Dante doesn't count because of vampiric eternal youth.
Probably Abaddon wasn't a normal astartes and was indeed a project enhanced as gene-progeny/clone like the rumours say.

he comissioned plateau boots from the dark mechanicum

It is indeed a possibility.
t. Blanche

Abaddon stopped by Cawl's house and got Primarised.

When do you think we'll get another proper novel for the Sons of Horus?

I really wanted Abaddon to lose an arm in the novels, to be replaced by bionics like so many astartes have (like Garro). At least his power fist arm, the one that eventually carries the Warmaster's Talon.

When Magnus shows common sense.

When the story gets to Terra probably. The White Scars are already there and the Blood Angels are on the way judging by the Ruinstorm cover so hopefully soon.

Chaos is a hell of a drug.

Turns out Magnus' common-sense shard is trapped under the Imperial Palace, and that's the reason the TS side with the traitors.
I wish I was fucking memeing.

man, I don't think it's possible to make abaddon look good

At least on Molech his ponytail gets blown off so it's canon to model him without it.

IT IS?! FUCKING POST THE EXCERPT PLEASE I'm fucking laughing.
>Eeeeeeeeeeey
-Abaddon's battle cry, as recorded from Istvaan III

Fucking Black Library man. And with Alan Bligh gone, we'll never get great tier HH fluff again.

Anyone have the audiobook version of blood games?

One reason sieges are common in the 40k universe is that planets have means of defending themselves from bombardment. You have to break into the fortification to turn off the shields. It's also a slow process, and the DA/UM fleet was incoming - they didn't have time.

On a related note, a lot of people often ask why the Emperor didn't just teleport a nuke up to the Vengeful Spirit. That one's easy; someone or something with psychic powers was able to split up the boarding party exactly the way they wanted, so that nuke's getting diverted outdoors.

I think this is what he was talking about? It's on Dwell not Molech, though it is from the same book (Vengeful Spirit) so maybe that's where the mix-up came from.

>Ezekyle and Aximand appeared at their primarch’s side. The First Captain’s face was a mask of crimson, his topknot burned down to the skull. Strands of it hung over his face, making him look like the victim of a wasting disease.

Now how will he get good reception without his topknot?

That would be the end then, right?
>tfw not ready to see Loken, Aximand, or hell, even Tormageddon die
>to say nothing of Horus, Sang, and the Emperor

Feels bad man.

I'd be shocked if the series didn't continue on into The Scouring. BL doesn't seem the type to let such a massive cash cow end.

>Since my previous story got mentioned in the op
have another one

“Don’t act so high and mighty,” the voice reverberated from behind the omnipresent rebreather.

“The fact we both favor green is not a point of unity between us,” Vulkan replied in a voice that was carefully neutral. He did not turn to look at his brother, but continued to study the holo-map as its information updated. “We are not alike.”

“We’re more alike than you want to admit,” Mortarion replied, matching Vulkan’s cautious toneless in a stubborn manner reminiscent of his dogged infantry tactics. “You hold weapons like phospex and bio-phage at arms’ length with one hand, then you turn around and with the other you wield a flamer with all the zealotry of a Thunder Warrior. You and your legion sing the praises of the fires of Nocturne with no less determination than the Death Guard embrace the mists of Barbarus. Death by fire,” emphasized Mortarion, even as he noted the way Vulkan’s hand was beginning to curl up. “One of the most agonizing ways for a human being to die. Isn’t it more monstrous to talk about how much you love humanity when at the same time-”

“Stop.”

Vulkan had turned about, the movement shockingly swift and fluid for such a big man wearing bulky power armor. He raised his hand, but rather than a fist he held his index finger out towards Mortarion in warning. “Let me explain the difference between us. Yes, a death by fire is one of the most terrible ways to die. That is why the Salamanders treat it with the respect it deserves. Not merely in the way it makes us strong, whether it flies from our gunbarrels or marks our flesh in ritual, but also the way it brings our foes low, as well as the way fire can be shaped and treated to craft works of wonder. My sons are taught to mark in their minds the horror of war and the joy of creation in equal measure. We do not revel in the killing power, in the pain and suffering we cause, but we recognize its purpose in the greater plan to craft a lasting edifice that will protect the whole of humanity.

“That is the difference between us, Mortarion,” he said, crimson eyes locked to the XIV’s own wolf-gold. “You and yours have embraced the poisons of Barbarus to the point where you have come to believe that every human being not as strong as yourselves is unworthy of purpose. The Salamanders wield the dreadful power of flame only in last resort, when we have failed to find the good ground between once side and another, whereas you have come to revel in your poisonous tinctures and your toxins. You have chosen to set an arbitrary bar of worth and say ‘this high and no lower, or you are not worth consideration’ and that, more than any other thing, is what separates us. You cannot place a value upon a human being, Mortarion. To do so is an act of self-genocide. It is an act of racial suicide.”

“I wonder if the eldar would agree with your precepts,” Mortarion riposted, without even a moment’s hesitation to rally from Vulkan’s onslught.

The comment did not cow the primarch of the XVIII in the least. Instead he raised his chin in defiance. “Is that the best you offer?” he asked. “Whataboutism in regards to my history with the eldar xenos? Have I ever voiced an objection to your crusade to remove the cruel warlords of Barbarus, that the human population might live free?” There was a long moment of pregnant silence before Vulkan shook his head. “No. There is no point of similarity between us, Mortarion, but that we are both primarchs and leaders of space marines in service to the Imperium. That is the beginning and the end of equivalence.”

With that, he bustled out of the room, his hammer held loosely in his offhand. Mortarion turned to watch him go, and though the Death Lord was characteristically silent, in time he raised one hand and gently drew and armored thumb across the tines of his rebreather grille, the slow ticking of the metal a long-held accompaniment to the moments in which he was most introspective.

I hope they go back and fill in some gaps before moving onto the Scouring. More Manus, more Mortarion, maybe some others that didn't get enough screen time. Maybe a book revealing what Alpharius was actually thinking, FFS.

But they probably will go into the Scouring because it isn't terribly clear where the Heresy ends and that begins. In a way, the Siege of Terra was like Stalingrad or Kursk - a turning point after which one side looked sure to lose, but only halfway through the actual fighting.

Not bad m80, not bad at all.

OK, after a look that seems pretty cool. I can take some ground troops to call down the thunder with, right? So could I do a Militia allies force with some tanks and infantry blobs which can hold the line and put out supporting fire for all the stabby birdmen hurling themselves out of planes? Problem is it seems to restrict fortifications, which means I can't bunker down till help arrives.

>I hope they go back and fill in some gaps before moving onto the Scouring. More Manus, more Mortarion
That's what they're doing with the Primarchs books. Ferrus is next.

It would be wrong of me to not point out that I only posted this and the previous story.....I didn't write them

Links

forums.spacebattles.com/threads/if-the-emperor-watched-the-text-to-speech-device.408752/page-133#post-29365532

castellankurze.tumblr.com/post/160283124410/do-the-primarchs-mortarion-and-vulkan-get-along

But they're going to do it wrooooooong aaaaanooooon

>The Salamanders wield the dreadful power of flame only in last resort

>because it isn't terribly clear where the Heresy ends and that begins.
No, it's pretty clear. The Heresy ends when Horus dies and so the Scouring begins.

Does anyone have a link to the Crimson King audiobook? Is there an audiobook MEGA?

Yup, even your marine forces can start on the ground.

My sides are in orbit. Well done.

>AL weren't there

How much you want to bet BL is going to have some sneaky XX shenanigans at the Siege of Terra involving them lowering Horus' shields c:

I think Omegon will pull something to prevent them from making it in time.

Erebus will lower the shields.