Warhammer 40k General

Yes? Why wouldn't they be?

Playing marines was never worth playing.

If I wanted generic space boys I would play Infinity.

If a spore mine hits a blob of 1 wound models, does it deal d3 mortal wounds to one model in that unit (overkill), or are the mortal wounds allocated to separate units?

Shot to death by pre-teens in one turn.

For fuck's sake, stop playing space marines for one god-dammed second.
Everything in 40k is about the generic fuckers.

I don't even play marines and I have over a 100 of them

They come in everything! For all I know there is a squad of marines in every codex!

There's only one way to play marines and that's rogue trader era marines when they were all thugs and scum in power armour.

But that won't actually happen? I've been play testing against conscript spam pretty consistently as my play group works out our various lists. They're very good but beatable if you aren't entirely stupid. They crumble incredibly quickly if your opponent makes poor choices.

What units tend to be effective against them? I've been trying to figure out if it's more effective to go after the commisars, or go after the conscripts.

>every edition box has marines
>last two have had marines vs marines
>learn to paint is marines
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Why isn't Nurgle stronger? Surely the way his plagues work, just infecting one guy in a hive city is enough to win big?

100 or less Conscripts can be defeatable.

Even stuff like 60+ ork boys with 5++ and 6+ feel no pain can be killed before turn 4.

But you need to pour a retarded amount of fire and some lucky rolls.

Wait, Brass Scorpion rules are out?

I play all 3 forms of Eldar so my experience is from that point of view. I find that units with fly aren't their friends - being able to charge quickly to stymie their shooting and then retreating and shooting at them again.

Wave Serpents have been really fantastic for me - I run 4 and basically just dump guardians out and shoot conscripts before charging with my Wave Serpents who aren't super worried about 'scripts then retreat next turn and shoot at them again with all my stuff.

They're wounds so they're dealt to the unit not a model.

Just thumbed through the Imperial 2 index and I gotta ask: Why are custodes banner guy and champion still part of their unit when everybody and their dog have those as seperate heroes?

In my own observation, memes aside, conscripts are really fucking good at blobbing. 50 t3 wounds is a lot of shit to wittle down, especially since they won't run, and they make the perfect shield for big guns.

Also, like the user yesterday brought up, they are damned good on locking up melee for several turns and being 50 fucking ablative wounds for killy units like Girlyman.

I'm not saying bring 150 of the fucks, but if the player knows what he's done (and not memes), they are still going to be a nightmare when used skillfully.

Beside the knight and air games cash grab. Only two board games didn't had marines.

Dark Eldar and the Assassin one. Everything else has marine pouring out from the box.

How important are command points in this new edition?

From what I've seen it seems quite easy to get 1 through some of the 1HQ+3HS/FA/E detachments, but would people dramatically change their list to get 3 through the battalion detachment (2HQ+3T)?

No one wants to give you feedback, you couldn't even be bothered to put 40kg on the post you worthless faggot. If you want advice then wait until someone gives a fuck, don't just spam shit.

Yes. No points as of yet.

They're very good and will play at top tables. I am not arguing against that at all - if I played guard I'd invest in 50 quickly. However they are beatable - that's the only point I am trying to make. It takes some very good play to do it and is by no means ever guaranteed that you will overcome them.

They are a big deal but time and codices will tell if its worth sacrificing CP for a more killy/specialized army.

Okay, fair enough. I was just afraid it was being ignored due to shitflinging. Coolio

their rules actually are lmao
>having 2 wounds and paying the price for them in a game where pretty much every weapon does 2+ wounds

This was my thinking too. I'm a nid player, but I was gonna test out some harpies the next chance I get.

1. Precision bomb the commissar in his bubble wrap.
2. Shoot/charge the conscripts, and let the morale phase do it's work.

Anything that can hit them in waves to disrupt both their shooting and their capacity to blob is a really solid answer to them. Most of the math evaluates them in a one unit vs. one unit situation which you just can't do - if you do you're going to lose every time. They are one of the best force multiplied units in the game at current so what you have to do is work out how to rob them of their punch.

If an Artillery unit ignores line of sight does it also ignore the character targetting rules? Can you target a character with an artillery unit? Im leaning towards no but not sure.

Don't mortal wounds and spite spam counter conscript meme armies? Unless your army is literally 99% conscripts, which isn't actually going to ever happen IRL.

Speaking of marines are units of 5 still good? In 7E you never really saw units of 10 since the heavy weapons were shit.

2W is a bit better against 1d3 than it looks. Rolls of 1 might as well be 0s because there's only a 1/9 chance of rolling 2 1s in a row.

I'ma say no, especially since we don't have templates anymore.

So in general, if a weapon deals multiple wounds, it is dealt to the unit to be allocated, and never wasted?

If you only use squads of 5 you will literally never be able to score objectives except against Primaris and single model units.

How exactly does smite spam counter conscripts? Aren't conscripts one of the most inefficient things to smite?

No, ignoring LoS doesn't affect other targeting restrictions.

Yes, damage is what doesn't spill.

If a weapon has a D greater than one, a successful wound causes that much damage. This can lead to wasted damage.

Does Smite not spill over? I might be mixing up its rules because I don't have psykers

Meanwhile in an alternate universe where Space Marines don't exist, the game died 30 years ago

Impressively brütal.

Placing mortal wounds on conscripts is inefficient placement of attacking power. Anything that can deal 50 mortal wounds can destroy 500 points of units that aren't conscripts., or 150 points of units that are.

Oh, I see. So a damage stat of greater than 1 can be wasted.

32 => about 640

No - there it only ignores 1 of the targeting restrictions. Not all. They can be targeted in the psychic phase by any power that gives you a chance to select a target though.

no.
Mortal wounds spread across models. multi damage weapons do not.
Hit roll, wound roll, allocate wound to model, save. Then if fail save roll for damage. All damage goes to that model.

Mortal wounds skip all that. A source applies a mortal wound to that unit, model loses wound.

Unlike damage from regular weapons, mortal wounds spill over to the rest of the unit. Page 181.

thats an interesting angle and i agree but there is still a shitton of weapon that straight up do 2 or 3 damage

even badrukk (who you would previously never see in a non fluffy retardo list) can smoke three of them

chads iz gitz

That's hyper inefficient - the actual I guess 'hard counter' is lots of either flying units or units with some form of hit and run.

Smite does an average of one wound per use. That's one dead conscript per Smite usage.

the entire point of memescipts is spending that 500 on even more conscripts

*3 of them a turn

>hit and run.

great, so i can order my conscripts to rank fire instead of being forced to disengage and was the order to allow them to shoot.

Because then they would actually be a playable army and that would take the spotlight away from marines.

>Everything in 40k is about the generic fuckers.
>Everything in 40k is about it's defining and most recognisable facet
you don't fucking say

>They crumble incredibly quickly if your opponent makes poor choices.
The problem is you can't base plans on your opponent being shit

I'd think highly mobile units that can get around them to hit supports and damage dealers.
Untested, but seems to fit the battle reports I've seen.

Are whirlwinds any good in 8th edition?

>Opponent being shit

No - if you make more than 1 or 2 placement mistakes with them or any any point during the game it can be capitalized on. I never plan on my opponent being poor but I always watch for him to make a mistake and even the best players make mistakes. In a 5 round tournament not every game is going to be perfect.

Whut? Do you know what hit and run does now? It says I can retreat and charge in the same turn - I'd never disengage from you and let you shoot.

They're simply too good, they devalue everything else in imperials by the comparison as well. 200 points per block with a commissar and a platoon commander, 2/4 shots each with a 5+ is just dumb. They'd be the best translated unit in Age of Sigmar as well which normally has a higher powerlevel than 40k.

I'm trying to think of a reason why, from a pure powerlevel standpoint you'd take anything besides lascannon hw teams, 200 cons and 40x+ plasma/melta scions.

So, you disengage to charge back into the blob and take overwatch shots?

Except you can send two squads of five, which is better than one squad of ten, because:
>virtually immune to morale
>free extra sergeant
>can deploy to two different objectives if needed
>more troops slots used means more command points

It's quite simple really, nobody is buying or painting 200 conscripts.

Depends on what your running/fighting m8:

Tasers are great against Guardsmen Equvilents, as they make you Str 6. Lack of AP becomes less of a problem if you fight stuff that has a bad save in the first place. Same deal with Flechettes.

Swords/Carbines are designated Marine killers. Str 4 swords and guns makes you much more likely to kill marines, and make their +6 saves less likely to do anything. However, the loss of additional attacks means your a bit more limited in the wounding department.

Another thing: In my opinion, unless your running big blocks of Rave-priests or ferrying them, they are not goint to be getting far. They lack the necessary transport, and their saves simply aren't good enough.

Other than that, looking good, aside from the random Memescripts.

>I'm not saying bring 150

Tbh 100-150 in a 1500 list seems like the magic number for me.

The point is that anything capable of dumping out enough mortal wounds to destroy a memescript army in five turns would also be capable of tabling all non-horde armies on T1. Such a thing does not exist.

Maybe if they weren't shoved down everyone's throat this wouldn't be an issue.

100% - because I get to shoot at you again before doing it. It accomplishes my goal of both forcing you to disengage or you attempt to stay in combat whereby I disengage - shoot at you again then recharge you to continue to prevent you from being able to dictate the pace of play.

There are a few answers that have nothing to do with game balance and thus aren't valid answers from the point that you are asking the question but are still reasons you'll never see the army all over the place.

>32 power

Yeah, it's gonna cost a shit ton.

Also, where can I find the rest of the rules?

They are god tier against normal armies.

Because against most weapons they're 100 points for 10 MEQ wounds which is 30 points cheaper than a completely naked tactical squad

AKA they're bullet catching speed bumps plain and simple

hellblasters standing next to a captain are quite good though and are basically missile devastators except you know, useful.

>get 200 conscripts for 200€ by buying the snapfit boxes of 5 guardsmen
>swarm board with 200 unpainted unglued guardsmen

They don't have to paint them all. Also I've seen boxes full those guys. A lot of people already have a shit ton, it's not like they have to buy them today.

Looking for a replacement for a vindicator I was running in my list, people say vindies are pretty shit in this edition.

>godtier
how come

>deploy to objectives you will never capture or contest
>immune to morale because you'll be FUCKING DEAD
>can just reroll morale with ATSKNF anyways

This isn't 7E

>age of sigmar
Wait.
>both have the same rules
>both now have the same bases
Oh my god, there won't be a 9th edition 40k, it'll be just Warhammer and you can have freeguild swordsmen fighting nobz, and orruks fighting chaoschads while primaris and stormshat pummel each other for following the wrong golden man.

They actually got more lethal, but also went up a lot in cost. They are tougher, but you never really worried about them getting shot anyway and they are useless if they get stuck in close combat. Overall nerfed, but they were a really good unit against the right targets before, so still viable, especially as hordes are apparently popular now.

This is by far the most dystopian future on Veeky Forums.

Also adding to this: Hellblasters are costed identically to lascannon and missile launcher devastators while having 2 wounds each and comparable guns that become bonkers at 15" and have zero move and fire penalty.

They're the current MVP of the starter box, kind of like retributors in the AoS box set. If you trade your death guard for more primaris, you'll take all 10 hellblasters every game.

Two sets of warmahordes?

THAT'S NOT TRUE
THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE

serg aint free my boy

>Sisters and Bretonnia
>Witch tits with wych tits

You take that back

Brettonia no longer exists.

Sometimes, objectives don't have multiple enemy models near them. In those cases, being able to do the job with five models is better than doing it with ten. If you do need the numbers, just send both squads. The objective rules don't care how many units you are in.

Two squads of five is harder to kill than one squad of ten. The enemy might not be able to see one squad. They might assign more attacks than are needed to kill five models. And morale can matter to a squad of ten. Take eight casualties and you will lose at least one guy to morale. Take those same casualties on two squads of five and you don't have any worries.

The only downside to smaller units is that you can't keep special weapons alive quite as long.

...

It does in our hearts.

I know its dumb but that's not a reason for it to exist as it is. Anyone bringing them is getting about 200 free points of power per unit of 50.

Is just a moment, mind it - but the image is fantastic because it gives you the temporary illusion of enuff dakka

>have 3 plastic WWs
>have 6 hyperios launchers and enough spare rhinos to mount them on
>mfw