Did 3E kill warmahordes??

Stopped playing it because of the local scene, and the shitty rules for scenarios. Every game would devolve into 'get into the coloured pad on the table before the literal game clock runs out', and my opponent without fail would be playing some ultra competitive net list. My store has a smarmy, pedantic former press-ganger turned judge who has every player metaphorically slobbering over his dick because he's won some tournaments.

I do not understand why people are so ridiculously optimistic. A few months will pass, the tide will turn and everyone will realize that this is the same shitshow 40k has been for the last fifteen years or so.
>Take last edition
>Have a few good ideas
>Have at least one stupid idea for every good one
>Get a game that's better yet worse and didn't get the necessary fundamental overhaul it needed

Once GW flipflops on their design guidelines within the next 18 months, everyone's on the fast track to garbage town again. Remember what a crapshoot 6th was? To the point that people actually welcomed 7th after two years because it was just that bad? A load of cock that did them.

Turns out of you build your image on being NOT-GW and then you toss out shitty rules and overprice your miniatures, shit will blow up in your face. A pity, because No Quarter was an actually good magazine with a shitton of converting and terrainbuilding guides. Reminded me of the good White Dwarf.

Terrain building guides are worthless when everyone plays on the exact same table.

1 building
1 wall
1 water feature
1 hill
2 woods

You have to wonder what the fuck PP is thinking. The conversion guides and terrain stuff is really great and it feels like they actually care about the world, yet the utterly, absolutely and completely failed to interest the modelling and fluff crowd for the game. Hell, back then I only started with the game because I picked up NQ on a whim, read a cool story about the Butcher and got a badass conversion guide for a Warjack together with some experimental rules. That was good stuff, it was like Chapter Approved in WD and I ate that shit up. Why didn't they ever market this stuff harder? Why no bits service while their stuff was metal? Why no conversion kits? Why no Summer Campaigns?

>Why no [thing]?
Because PP is trash, and so is Warmahordes?

But why the fuck are they so disconnected from the people making NQ? It feels like two different companies, or like NQ is a fanzine made by loving fans of a completely different game.
At least it used to be, I haven't touched one in years.

For a company that focused solely on
trying to draw in the "Angry at GW" crowd,
made shitty plastic models,
shifted away from metal models,
has awful resin/plastic/maybe metal combo kits,
high prices for said models,
a game that forces you to buy lots of stuff for your combo,
a tournament system that forces you to bring multiple lists because of all the hard counters in the rules
removing the inability to premeasure
not releasing models for armies in a timely fashion
having an attitude towards the game that favors WAAC faggots, army lists and attitudes
no terrain support for their game
utter failures in balance

Yea, I think that more or less covers it. This from an ex-warmachine player who used to run a FLGS and stopped playing warmachine due to time constraints before the change to 3rd.

>But it's back and clearly here to stay
Maybe as a tiny alternative wargame. 40k 8th edition is shutting down all hope PP had for trying to rebound.

The 3e roll out and terrible release killed my intrest in the game. I went back to WHFB/9th age

>that's unfortunate to hear
Actually it's rather glorious. Those fags can go fuck themselves, they are the worst kind of gamers I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. Even the store runners have this stupid sense of superiority. My only worry is when the store finally goes under, they will all migrate to the other one and we will have to deal with them there.

But yeah I agree that there is a huge disconnect it feels between the fluff and setting and the game. The ikrpg seems like it was meant to bridge that gap, but nobody gives a shit about it. Hell, I generally know more about the setting than most wmh players do, and I've just read the rulebooks. But if PP spent some time on other modes of play outside of competitive, like GW does with narrative campaign gaming, then it might foster as better community. But instead we get them gobbling competitive gamer cock like it's the only one worth indulging.

Except 6e and 7e we're done during the silent GW days. When they didn't give a fuck about the players and just did what they wanted. Each edition pretty much after 4th was received with mostly mixed to negative response. 40k was hemmoraging players constantly due to the neglect and crazy bullshit.

The difference in 8e is the company itself getting their heads out of their asses and listening to the community, communicating with them, playtesting with prominent community members, actually releasing rules for free/cheap. It's reminding all the old guard of the old days of GW where it felt like the company gave a shit about the game and aren't just using it as a vehicle for selling models. People are coming back to 40k in droves like never before because of the above. This piled on top of constant release schedule, rapidness of FAQs, and the yearly universal points adjustment model. Is something bullshit dominating the meta? Is something stupidly overcoated? You have to endure it for a year max before they adjust it's points, along with everything else at the same time.

This is more promise from the company than most of us have gotten in a decade. You can't blame us for feeling a little more optimistic about 8e than did in 6 or 7

Basically everything opposite of 2nd ed happened.

The market is vastly different now. mkii WMH existed during the GW's fuck up era of demon codex and vampire count book. Basically GW gamers especially fantasy players who generally preferred fantasy over 40k for it's crunchiness and supposed balance basically collapsed and poured in. Infinity still had garbage translations and model releases were sporatic and mediocre. X-wing and Attack wing were in their infancy and no one knew where to invest. Malifaux still was imbalanced garbage.

Mkiii now exists in the era where GW has earned consumer trust with its releases and open communications, X-wing is a viable competitive game while still being easy and IP crammed for casuals, Malifaux got their shit together, Infinity is now considered one of the best model manufacturer in the industry with new rules that translates pretty well compared to the google translate job of the previous editions. Guildball got made which resonates well with WMH players, and Kickstarters mean that various people could get small projects made that suited them.

Development was also well received in 2nd ed because it announced with community testing, which at the time was unheard of for miniature company, especially for an entire edition's worth of stuff. Complaints were harder to stick because the 2nd ed changed up a lot of things visually, structurally, and per model basis. Things weren't just straight up bad or good yet because people needed to sit on it for a bit. Many of the core rule issues got ironed out immediately due to community feedback and the game got decluttered a lot by removing a lot of extraneous fluffy bits and homogenizing all the irrelevant bits and unifying the ruleset.

Mkiii basically did the opposite. The development was done behind closed doors and from the get go, slew of issues were found. Many models got changed in their roles due to fluff reasons.

All these changes were noticed by the community very early and it didn't take long because mkiii is very similar to mkii in terms of structure.

Now the real killer was the disastrous PR. From the get go of the announcement of the closed development people were confused as to why PP, who's been so good about community communication was so tight lipped about this. Then the faction previews started rolling out and those previews raised more questions than answers and indicated that PP didn't understand their own game. The previews all described nerfs pretty heavily, but did very little to mention the buffs or mentioned buffs that were of very little consequences.
All these criticisms were also met with very poor responses once the rules officially released. Responses that blamed the player's inability to adapt to the new Skorne rules got people irate and the simmering rage erupted into an inferno when in an AMA session in reddit, the developer admitted to not knowing what the fuck to do with the faction, compounded by consecutive abysmal performance by Skorne faction in every tourney. They did eventually redid the rules for the faction, but the damage was done and everyone was now clamoring to get their weaker options fixed.

So yeah. poor decisions and environment.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to make a new edition right now.

>I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to make a new edition right now.
You mean like a 3.5? ew. that number has so many negative connotations with me its hard to shake.

no a straight up 4.

they need to wash their hands off of this project ASAP.

Don't forget
>#designspace
>"some people don't like options"
> Releasing theme forces one by one for a bit.
> Nerfing medium infantry to the dirt to the point they're never seen.
> Blatant waifuism
> Sole's pumkintown faction and the cringe that came with it.
> Sole's insiders.
>Sole's haircut.
> the glorious Storm Lance/Roceteer meta.
> that sweet winter guard theme that was totally playtested you guys.
> axe the forums, as GW did long ago.
> write rules for colossal wrestling instead of fixing your game.
> warroom works when it feels like it.
> Tactics

Thank God for Pagani or I'd have zero faith in PP. The skorne errata was a huge fix.

>Sole's pumkintown faction and the cringe that came with it.
I dont play wmh, but i like to follow it casually. Is that reaction pretty much universal? Because to me it is rather the silliest faction for the game yet. Almost a joke faction.

online like 30% of people like it. In my store only 2 out of 15 or so people like it. and the one guy only likes it ironically

As someone who has played WMH for 5 years, any recovery PP has made was quickly invalidated with the recent decisions they've made over the past few months.

>cancelled the volunteer PG program
>removed the general discussion and faction forums
>their "open beta" playtesting program 'CID' instilled a more intense sense of entitlement to the community
>theme forces are a hot mess that everyone hates, but are forced to play them in order to compete

The warning signs are all there, and if PP dont stop shooting themselves in the foot then theyre in trouble. Lets face it, as unpopular as GW has been in previous years, at least they had the dosh to survive.

Yeah, I'm hoping they listen to Pagani. He's good people.

Without realizing, I had mentally scabbed that bit out in the year since MkIII. And honestly, you're right. MkIII was, and has been nothing but an absolute clusterfuck. PP had the opportunity to make a perfect backflip twist dive in the Miniature Gaming Competition, and they chose the Belly Flop.

Sure, they said they'd try and fix things MONTHS after release, but that isn't good enough. You don't snub your userbase like that, come out with some half-hearted apology and promises, and THEN proceed to take your dear sweet time patching up all the damage. Why the fuck am I going to buy a MkIII starter box, or any unit for that matter, if the rules for it might get changed at some point in the nebulous future (at which point I'll have to print up a new set of proxy cards for it), or just as likely, it remains a shitty unit and I get even more aggravated. The fact they're slowly ratcheting up the prices isn't helping either. They were barely cheaper than GW in the first place, with some units being stuck in White Metal hell ($70 for a box of basic-ass Sword Knights?). With the continued raise in prices, GW's move back into online sales, and an absolute lack of customization options, I'm seeing little reason to ride alongside PP til they get their shit in order.

I've got decently sized armies of Ret and Legion, and skirmish sized forces of Cyg, Khador, Menoth, and Circle, and I've honestly been thinking of selling them off. With everything MkIII did, right now the only purpose they have is either decorative or sucking up storage space.

It sucks.

Say it with me. WMH is shit. 40k is ubershit.

WMH is an ok game with the wrong focus. 40k had the right focus, but a mediocre game. 8e has fixed that.

> Blatant waifuism

?

I'd say about a third of the player base like it or are okay like with it, a third are neutral and a third outright hate it.

It's (very obviously) Soles vanity project and I get the feeling he forced it onto the other designers.

>>their "open beta" playtesting program 'CID' instilled a more intense sense of entitlement to the community

This is untrue. I'm actually very surprised at how retrained people have been in regard to the CID for the most part. There has been some vocal retards trying make models overpowered by constant whining but PP value battle report feedback over autistic screeching so no one listens to them.

It actually made Grymkin into a decent army.

>>removed the general discussion and faction forums

Wait, why was it removed?

too much negativity in the forums apparently
>>cancelled the volunteer PG program
this wasn't really their fault. blame magic for overworking their volunteers. PP is avoiding any possible blowback from the court decision

PP dug their own grave when they designed models for their rules and interactions to the gigantic detriment of actually producing cool models that fit a narrative.

This. They abandoned any focus on narrative long ago in favor of "muh competitive balance" failing to achieve it ever.

Stop you bitching and moaning and starting playing a great gate.

Silly you, you used the wrong image. Here, I fixed it for you.

I am being totally serious, btw. But I am sure you are too. So it's cool.

Sure you are Patrick.

Antares is a great game but the fluff sucks.

>Patrick
Whoa, how did you know that's not my name?

I haven't given it a serious look because I really haven't felt the need to, especially since 40k now gives me a good scifi gaming fix. But it has a growing community so that gives me no reason to doubt it is a good game.

user, in American Psycho, what is the main character's name?

Mostly Haley, someone in the studio has a large hadron for Haley. The guy who has a twin.

Haley is Matt Ward's obsession so will never go away. He's loved her since he drew the same concept in Lo5R and needed to continue the hero's journey from whatever Lit 101 course he failed out of before starting the company.

The court decision already exists from what I remember. It's piggybacking off of a case in cali where the end result involved mandatory breaks for lunch and a hard cap on how much a volunteer can work in a day. Interesting bit is that the original case made sense, the volunteers were working 8+ hours a day with no breaks to eat. They were actually being taken advantage of. Either way long live capitalism

PP has tried with their campaign they released, the company of iron league(which I guess spawned this skirmish game coming up?), with the IKRPG, with the skull pass novels, and of course with the High Command card game. They seem like they want to break away from steam roller tournaments as their bread and butter.

Wait, matt ward wrote for PP? How did i not know this?

Does their community hate him as much as the 40k community does?

Considering SR players are their main source of income I would hope they're not doing that.
He meant Matt Wilson

Ah ok. That makes sense. I know after he got fucked off from Warhammer, he did some freelance writing for some other companies, but I didn't keep track of who

Wait, how is it dead? Isn't it only second to Warhammer in terms of popularity when it comes to miniature wargames (X-Wing isn't really a wargame)? Warhammer can't be toppled so there is not much else you can expect from a game. That's like saying any video game that can't beat League in popularity is dead.

>53787633

But this is the point of Warmahordes. PP makes a game, that has models to it, this is why it can be played pretty good at a tournament standard. GW makes rules for models they make, that's why balance is thrown out the window, but the models has fitting rules.

It has been so for as long as I have played the game, but being a starter from the launch of 2ed I thought it was intentionally.

Because, if it wasn't, and they actually tried to make great models and compete with GW, they are fucked ether way. As other anons have mentioned, they are a good 10-15 years behind GW when it comes to quality.

I actually bought in to the new starter sets, and my lord, I now know why they cost so little. That "rubber-plastic-something" is horrid to work with! I had to spend more time scraping moldlines on those guys than my Knight from Forgeworld! And even then, I where unable to remove it all!

The ball dropped when pp came out and told everyone they would ban all negative critique on the forum, because it would look bad for the new players wanting to join mk3. This to me was a huge betrayal to the fans.

was aimed at this post.