/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>Question:
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I joined the game a ways in when they started; there are about nine of us, and we run it with two DMs because it's a lot to handle. We're a group of friends that have been RPing and writing together for a long time but even then it's arduous, but addictive.

The campaign was inspired by Stranger Things, because it had just come out. It began with everyone as normal humans. The lives of a group of college-age kids playing D&D in an apartment were upset when a strange monster broke in and abducted their friend. They set out to find him; a couple of kids, a cop, and a doctor from the local hospital. From what I heard they ran around town for months chasing down leads, and encountering new factions and night folk. By the time they had tracked the beast down and killed it, their friend was gone-- abducted by a powerful Moros mage for reasons unknown.

The doctor was eventually revealed to be the leader of the local vampires, one of the kids died in a motorcycle chase and became a Geist, and the mage just obliterated the cop. He also became a geist. Another one of the kids got abducted by the Fae and spent a few months in Arcadia, then came back within days in real time. Another kid hooked up with a local master-dude and became a mage apprentice. During the search they also met up with some werewolves who had moved into the area, looking for an artifact that might have been tied to the mage. Everyone agreed to help one another so that all the tasks could be more easily done. So by the time I came in, there was only one regular human left.

And then I came in, playing a redneck ex-marine who won the lottery and moved to the area so that he could find and kill Bigfoot.

Gradually, the plot shifts from finding the lost kid to the MacGuffins that the werewolves are looking for, though the plot thread isn't forgotten. My character comes in when the group are in dealing with a pack of Pure who are pushing the local packs out of the area. It turns out that there's a powerful artifact hidden somewhere in the town and they're an advance group sent to scout the place.

We kill the pack leader and send the rest of his pals running, but the Pure are really dead-set on finding this thing so they send in yet another pack, whose alpha is a cell phone company CEO and searches with a lot more finesse. He basically replaces the police force with private security and makes our lives a hell of a lot worse.

During this arc we find the lost kid and kill the moros guy in an epic multi-level boss fight in the sewers. The kid's alive, but in a coma, so we put him in the hospital and focus on this macguffin, which may or may not bring about the apocalypse.

we eventually locate it within a specifically designed labyrinth in the underworld, accessible only by an avernian gate in an abandoned nightclub, guarded by a nightmarishly scary guardian. We sort of go back and forth over whether or not we should leave it where it is because it's safer or whether we should just take it. We decide to leave it, but the Pure pack leader forces our hand by sending in a gang, during which one of our characters dies (a changing breeds were-raven who replaced one of the werewolves) and then occupying the nightclub with his bought out police force.

>How to geek the mage ?
>Can humans or other splats hope to go toe to toe with a mage, or is an indirect approach safer ?

First and foremost, it's very unlikely that a character will even know the mage is a mage. The Quiescence prevents anyone without a supernatural merit, without any exception, from remembering any supernal magic at all. Even watch a video or reading an account triggers memory alteration or loss.

And, yes, it's possible to kill a mage, although very difficult. Mages' powers are very varied and quite strong. Don't assume you can surprise them, know that many have effective insta-kill or equivalent spells that can affect an area or multiple targets, virtually all mages have one or more means to quickly escape danger, and all have some forms of reflexive Mage Armor.

If a mage escapes and seeks revenge, the assailant might as well update his will and commit suicide, for the alternative is to ghastly to contemplate.

Also, mages are very social beings and group together for mutual protection. If you manage to kill one, don't be surprised if his cabal or friends decide to retaliate. Again, magic ensures there are fates far worse than death, and your loved ones might now be targets.

If you manage to know about mages and decide to hunt them, your career will likely be very short, painful and messy. It's certainly possible, but the risks invariably outweigh the rewards.

We go back and forth on schemes trying to kill this mother fucker, but he's ridiculously hard to reach, and it's difficult when some of us are more willing to just murder innocents. Eventually, one of the werewolves just gets tired of waiting and goes to the guy's cell phone factory to just straight up assassinate him during the day, and we go to bail him out. It ends in a major fuck up right outside the front door, and the were-raven's player who just re-rolled a were-tiger gets her ass handed to her by the Pure's totem who is a rank 4 lightning spirit. She berserks, and my guy has to face her down in the street or she'll fucking murder the rest of the unconscious party. So I put her down, and hastily grab my pals and drive off before the cops arrive.

there's a fuckton more but im losing steam. We've had a Mastigos master mage at one point who got hit by a Barrett .50 cal round and basically died in one shot, and my redneck dude just got his arm lopped off by some asshole True Fae. A lot of characters have been switched out or retired or blown to hell.

The moral of the story is, if you don't have an Acanthus with you, don't fucking go into the Hedge.

>and all have some forms of reflexive Mage Armor.

So like

if a mage steps on a land mine or is stabbed while he sleeps

he can cast a spell and just be ok?

Mage Armor is not a spell, it is an Attainment. Mage Armor is a power a mage obtains when he attains two dots in any Arcanum Each of the 10 Mage Armors provides a different defense. For instance, Forces Armor provides one level of armor, including against fire and electricity, per level of Forces, while Death Armor provides an advantage similar to vampires where all damage is considered Bashing and you will not keel over when all your health boxes are full. Other armors provide significant Defense bonuses, often against firearms and surprise attacks.

Note that two dots in an Arcanum also provides access to the Shielding Practice, that depending on circumstances, can be quite impressive. For example, a Forces 2 spell can effectively render a mage immune to ALL kinetic damage - bullets, knives, land mines, etc. would all be useless against such a mage.

>Don't bring a gun to a fight with an Obrimos

Hm

as someone who's never played mage, this just sounds like wish fulfillment trash. What's the point?

It sounds impressive against street level threats, but mage is not a street level game. Bullet immunity doesn't help you when you're up against old gods clawing at the foundations of the world or sentient memes enslaving swaths of people.

But you're better, almost out of the gate, than 99.9% of things that exist, no? That's why it feels sort of wish fulfillment-y to me.

In my Changeling game, very well

That's true, but out of the gate they're suddenly on the radar of things much bigger and scarier than they are, things that would never have noticed them before. It's also worth bearing in mind that mage's powers are broadly applicable to only a segment of reality. Starter Forces mage that can laugh off bullets (so long as Sleepers weren't around to see him cast that) can't do diddly about a ghost sapping his life or a vampire dominating his will or a changling ensnaring his fate or a spirit hijacking his flesh.

>almost out of the gate

A Gnosis 1 Mage is still street tier, and can be eviscerated by a woof who is also starting out.

>99.9% of things that exist

What about stuff that doesn't exist? Like every Abyssal Intruder ever?

No Mage can be good at everything. The bulletproof Obrimos the other user mentioned can't do much against Ghosts, Spirits, or a clever Changeling's pledge. There are plenty of nasty things out there, like the God Machine, Rank 6+ Spirits, Ghosts, or Abyssals. And of course, there are other Mages, who can do all the tricks you can do.

Thanks for sharing mate

Again, Mage is a higher power level game, and the standard mage adversaries are similarly powerful, if not more so.

While true that a common street thug stands absolutely no chance against a mage, never forget that your mage is not supposed to be fighting muggers and gangbangers.

There a lot of Very Bad Stuff (tm) in the CofD, and mages often deal with the some of the worst of the worst. Let the vampires, werewolves and changelings deal with the less world-ending threats. There's more than enough terrible crap for everyone.

Awakening's style and setting is certainly not for everyone, possible you included. That's alright, there's something in the CofD for everyone.

However, don't presume that the different PC splats are balanced against one another. If you do, you'll be very disappointed.

Quick question. I hear Prince of 100 000 leaves is rank 8 entity. However for someone that does not read mage outside of fluff how does abyssal entity of given rank compare to say spirit or indigam of same rank?

>The bulletproof Obrimos the other user mentioned can't do much against Ghosts, Spirits, or a clever Changeling's pledge

Hold on..., are we going to have to now discuss the versatility of Prime...?

Nevertheless, we are indeed in basic agreement. The nature and threat level of mage antagonists are generally much greater than the other splats, including other asshole mages.

Another point to consider is how mage groups are often much stronger than the sum of their individual parts. While certainly true that werewolf pack and similar splat groups can be quite impressive, a cabal with mages of multiple Paths quickly tend to eliminate any and all perceived weaknesses given the vast breadth of the Arcana and their ability to provide such benefits to other friendly mages.

For instance, you really don't want to be a ghost, spirit or changeling, or even group of such beings, fighting an Obrimos who's also pals with a Moros, Thyrsus or Acanthus.

There is also the Hellmenth.

It's a roleplaying game, user. It's inherently wish-fulfilly.

People play Mage to imagine being a character fettered only by their creativity. People play Vampire to let go of humanity and mortality. People play Werewolf because they lack the courage to just let their dogs fuck them.

It's all wish fulfilment.

What if he has a cat and still plays woof?

Rank is often a bad indicator of comparable power level among different entities.

A Rank 8 Abyssal entity is a universe-ending threat.

Luna and Helios are Rank 8 Spirits, and they probably would not fare well in a direct conflict with the Prince.

>What if he has a cat and still plays woof?

Only those infused with the Abyss care for such terrible and selfish creatures as cats.

Then they are a sick son of a bitch, and you bid them good day.

I see. And how do things like Scelesti, Tremere, Mad and such rank against normal(no frills) mages. I understand that banishers are normal mages who just got one case of bad awakening

The Prince is a sentient alternate timeline of Very Bad Things, that, if fully recorded, will replace the timeline of Earth with itself, casting the world and its history into the Abyss.

I'm a bit spotty on my Rank 8 Spirits, but I'm pretty sure that Luna has been stated to be capable of making everyone who sees the moon insane, and inventing new races of shapeshifters. A fully manifested Prince can tell her "you are fake news," pimpslap her into the Abyss, and replace her with his own anti-moon.

And I understand that Prince is jut one of number of such beings(Annunaki)?

A Scelesti will favor a subtle approach, because every other Mage has a "kill on sight" policy for them. As for what they can do, on top of whatever magic they have, it depends on what kind of Abyssals they can summon.

A Tremere is basically a Moros with Death dots who can eat souls to prolong his life.

That is correct

Man Abyss is some scary shit

whats the "core book" for this setting?

Something logically equivalent to the PHB from D&D.

Everything that is not is in the Abyss. It's a roiling pit of stillborn universes. One of my favorite abyssal intruders is a set of mathematical equations that gradually rewrite local physics as they're solved.

What about Lower Depths? I understand there isn't a lot of material about them(Duat from Mummy and Inferno are LD from what I understand). From what I understand they fall into(from mage perspective)

>Meh dimension without one arcana
or
>Fuck if I know
categories?
>

Yeah, but most Annunaki are too busy sleeping. The Prince is the most proactive of them.

>What about Lower Depths?

The Lower Depths tend to be more a catch-all category for the near limitless number of places that don't fit neatly anywhere else, and are not considered part of the Supernal or Fallen World (Material, Shadow, Underworld, Astral). You can make any individual Depth as bad as may suit your chronicle. The Strix from Requiem also come from a Lower Depth.

Mages like to categorize everything, particularly that which they do not fully understand.

On a related note, as of 2e, I'm still not sure whether Changeling Arcana and the Hedge are part of the Fallen World, Lower Depths, or their own special category entirely.

Pretty much. They're alternate realities, cysts growing on the fabric of the reality. A couple threads ago an user suggested that Changeling Arcadia could be a Lower Depth, as a world without Truth, by lacking the Prime Arcana. There's not a lot on them, though.

>Yeah, but most Annunaki are too busy sleeping. The Prince is the most proactive of them.


They just want you to believe they're sleeping.

Don't ever let your guard down, or you'll be sorry.

>Cthulhu beckons...

The Lower Depths are not alternate realities, that would be the Abyss. They are definitely not the same.

Anyone have any interesting Nimbus ideas?
I'm sort of drawing a blank for my character because I'm not really sure what they should look like other than "strange misty things".

Hmm I looked through my art folder and only found something like this

What's your character's Path and Legacy, if any?

What's your Path, and what's you most used/highest dot Arcana?

I'm playing a Thrysus from an Indian proximi family who describe themselves as being descended from Gods (at least I think so.) And they actually have some proof to back up that claim!

This family is pretty important in the Silver Ladder and are sort of everywhere in the background.

Which Indian gods? Use that for inspiration.

Asura.
They claim to be descended from Asura.
I was thinking of going all multi-armed, multi-headed monster thing but none of the example character's seem to have that sort of nimbus.
It's all a swoosh of color and fog.

>t none of the example character's seem to have that sort of nimbus.

You can choose any nimbus you want. Don't feel limited by the example characters, particularly now that the nimbus has a greater focus in 2e.

The mage's nimbus can be as simple as images of Asura transposed on the mage when casting spells.

Look at some of the 1e examples of Nimbuses, there's way more variety. Start out with it just being the outline, maybe a couple extra ghostly arms and have the Asura form grow more and more defined as you get more Gnosis.

Alright then I will go ahead and develop this nimbus idea further. But just incase the ST will not allow it, I'll also come up with a billowy-fog nimbus as well.

So a more spirity version of this?

A couple questions about casting spells.

Say I can see a car and I want to flip the light switch in the car.

Do I target the car or the switch I technically can't see?

Can a forces spell bypass the password on a device like a phone?

Yeah that's pretty much what I had in mind.
Perhaps a little bit more monster-y as an Asura I think should be.

I'm trying to make a vampire be friends with my mage. I used mind to charm him for the story but I want him as an ally. He's a nosferatu who can control rats and turn invisible if that helps. I don't know much about vampires. It's owod/mage20 so vampire20 rules if it matters.

Also there's a chance he's blood bonded to a bad guy, but we're gonna kill that guy hopefully. If not, is there a way to break that? Just in case. Thanks

Something like this might work too.

Hey, I remember that book.

Shadow magic fucking sucked.

Eh, it was ok. True name magic, now...

My 3.5 group was sure Truenamers were OP, on account of them actually believing the "ALL DAY CASTING" meme and thinking 10d6 at level 15 was absurdly high damage.

THIS

>Can a forces spell bypass the password on a device like a phone?

Easily. Forces 1, or 2 at most.

As for the light switch in the car, if the switch is part of the car, just target the car. Easy Forces or Matter spell.

bump

>bump

Forces 2 ?

Time 3, Temporal Summoning.

>No Mage can be good at everything. The bulletproof Obrimos the other user mentioned can't do much against Ghosts, Spirits, or a clever Changeling's pledge

This is running with the assumption that the respective Obrimos hasn't ventured beyond his/her two Ruling Arcana.

Which is usually not the case with Mages.

I'm looking at the 2E book right now and I'm not seeing anything that could possibly render you immune to all kinetic damage with a Forces 2 spell.

>Hes too stupid to understand creative thaumaturgy

It's how the specific Practice functions.

It's pretty straight forward.

It's not in the example spells, but an Arcanum-swapped version of Alchemist's Touch can render you immune to kinetic bashing damage, and decrease kinetic lethal damage by potency.

Then you apply a reach option extending that immunity to lethal, and the reduction to aggravated.

So it can't quite render you immune to "all" kinetic damage, but it can render you either immune or resistant to almost all forms of kinetic damage.

Mage shouldn't be THIS privileged

fucking mary sues

Scelesti are mages of varying types that are willing to consort with The Abyss. The main threat of them is whether they have any abyssal entities with them. Often they also have strange abyssal attainments from their left handed legacies.

Tremere are mages of any path that think to themselves "what if vampirism is an arcana?" And they then proceed to learn legacies that allow them to eat souls to extend their lives and increase their Gnosis. The main threat of tremere is what happens when you lose to them, because if they are potent enough you can kiss you soul and awakening goodbye

Yeah, see, my ST would look at the description for Alchemist's Touch, which specifically mentions damage coming from the intrinsic property of the material, and then tell me to fuck off, or make me roll at fuckoff levels.

Do your STs just let you go hog wild or something?

Alot of people push stupid shit into the shielding practice, like shielding yourself from death means you cant ever die, or shielding yourself from gravity means you fly off into space, however shielding oneself from kinetic energy which is under the purview of Forces is a valid application. Mage armor protects from general harm, shielding protects from specific harm.

>Do your STs just let you go hog wild or something?

Probably not. Because user is properly utilizing the mechanics.

The other user meant using Creative Thaumaturgy to make a Forces version of Alchemist's Touch that protects you from kinetic energy.

You obviously don't know what that word means.
So stop using it.
Power =/= Sueism

And the intrinsic properties of matter should be any difficult to the intrinsic properties of different forms of energy?

How else would you fluff a Shielding spell that protects against a certain form of energy?

Take a breather, friend.

Mages are truly phenomenal.

Could a Master of Fate take on a True Fae?

Or would Archmastery be mandatory?

I understand that. But my ST would apply a limitation to that spell that would require either more reaches or just not allow the spell to entirely make you immune.

Then your ST is intentionally dumbing things down.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

You still need a high Potency to resist things like getting shot with a fifty caliber.

True Fae are Rank 7 entities per Imperial Mysteries. Yes, you want to be an Archmaster, preferably with Fate 7 so you can Excise their powers.

True Fae =/= Old Gods of the Thistle

At least by current 2e canon

Still a good indicator of their relative power

>At least by current 2e canon

What did they change and where did the change it?

The thing about Archmages is that they can potentially match -anything- given enough prep time.

One could even triumph over a rank 8+ entity after a certain point.

The Old Gods of the Thistle are denizens of the Supernal, and as of 2e the two Arcadias are no longer tied.

Supernal Arcadia isn't even a 'place' to begin with, unlike "true" Arcadia.

Meh, just steal a sleepers soul and attach it back to you. Fuck them, you'll have your magic back. Thats assuming you survived after soul removal.

Could an Archmage take on Luna?

being non places was a stupid idea, look at all the books (atleast one) they could write describing the supernal realms.....

I disagree! Current Supernal is best Supernal.

It's actually engaging and makes the most sense thematically speaking. Especially in contrast to the Abyss.

The Supernal is everything that IS
The Abyss is everything that ISN'T

I'd argue the abyss is more like everything that 'CAN'T'

Yes. He then gets pimp slapped by the Siddhas of Spirit who are pissed off that he is messing with the Shadow so much.

Indeed, the fact that chantries become wendings when a archmaster dies, mean that shit they can die. who knew? (you'd never know this from 99% of the posts about em)

Legacyfag here.
Finished my exams.

Who's got an update request for me?

Lords of the Inanimate

Much harder than it sounds though. They just get sent back into their Golden Roads.

A mild annoyance to them.

Luna is a motherfuckin' god

Archmages can't do shit to her/him

No, they can reflexively return to their golden road, but dont auto return if somehow killed outside. They can also be killed inside their golden road too.

That's even worse

Mary Sue wizards

She can try and contest it, but if she fails...
Luna just become the Rank 0 Spirit of a tasteful arrangement of petunias in a hand-made clay vase.

whats worse is people not being able to read the fucking books and spewing drivel like "send back to their Golden Roads". No wonder people think all sorts of wierd shit if people spew utter bullshit.

In the unlikely event of catching a mage in a situation he cant act, then its better than him just returning to his golden road on death. I cant think of a situation where he couldnt act reflexively easily but it might happen....

>una is a motherfuckin' god
>Archmages can't do shit to her/him

You *really* need to read Imperial Mysteries again.

"Motherfuckin' gods" are precisely the types of antagonists dealt with by archmages. The limit on archmages is not so much can they do something, but whether other archmages will try to stop them because of the Pax Arcana.

Luna also has transfiguration in "Making you super insane" so you better pull of your shit (and find the Quintessence for it) before she gets to act. If she gets to act first your fucked..