Malifaux General - Hard To Kill Edition

No worries bud - it's refreshing to have such a solid week and more of conversation.

> between Obsidian Oni and Jorogumo, what should I buy first?
I'd go Obsidian.
There's a laundry list of reasons why:
You'll summon them more frequently as they are cheaper.
You'll get Activation control with them, as they'll drop Scrap to support summoning.
They have Ml6, so hit more reliably.
They have smaller bases so they can pop up and move around in tighter spaces, and block fewer charge lanes - since you are controlling this, you should be able to make this work for you rather than the other guy.
They have a ranged Ca that does decent damage and gets +flips against Burnign targets.
They can hand out Burning with their Ml attack.
And finally, you won't find yourself sitting on 13s for a Jorogumo that won't actually achieve all that much more.

What this guy said.

Basically, Obsidian Oni are easier to get and way more versatile, but a bit less scary.

You tech up to your Jorogumo using your RapeMonkeys and Obsidians to generate markers until you get the 13M in hand, then use it to lock down a piece of board or model.

Alternatively, hire Tannen.

He can get Abominations on 9s (and Alice on 10s) but I'm going to see if there's a better way to get scrap

Ah fuck, thought I had edited that.
Cheers.

>Levi and\or Alice can summon Abominations from Scraps with 2ss Upgrades.
D'oh, of course.
Fukken Aboms.

So what do you guys think of the wave 5 beta so far? As a neverborn player I'm happy Titania gets some more toys to play with, neutral on the anti synergy puppet and sort of intrigued by Serena and her synergy/upgrades involving nightmares.

Don't mind me, I'm retarded and was thinking about a new model

As a TT player I really don't know what Wyrd was thinking. It's gotten a lot better since the first release but fuck that was abysmal.

I really do like the Guild's control options. The Ten Thunders models are pretty bad, but that is usually the case for that faction. I am generally glad with how the divergent paths characters turned out though. Hopefully the sculpts are decent as well.

How did the characters turn out, anyway? Did every faction get somebody or just a few?

There were only three characters, and all three are monofaction. That said the Trickster is tormented, and the self righteous man is a mimic, so they can be hired across factions with the right master.

I'm still mad the kid didn't end up neverborn/woe

I still kinda want to see the Resser kid from the Deadman's Ball story. One of my favorite fluff pieces in Malifaux.

So, Obsidian it is then. Thanks.

Is Shadow Emissary worth taking (purchasing) for Asami if I'll get Sensei Yu? Emissary can't push-fast summoned models, while Yu with Wandering River can. Yu also can push target twice (Airbust, Focus +1 on printed Tomes, Mighty Gust with Fast), giving it a respectable 10" push.

The +'s for all minions is really quite strong with with the card hungry Asami though. What other TT masters do you have? For Mei and McCabe the Emissary is pretty much a must and even Shen is high up there.

TT stuff is a mess, really feels like they had some art ideas and an obligation to provide an equal number of models for each faction there.

Clearly had no clue of what they wanted the models to be, barely even a vague idea of what their role on the table was to be.

The Guild stuff is decent, and the control stuff is good, but the whole game is starting to creak under the number of options, the potentials for hard counters, and the smoothing out of capabilities/weaknesses.

Having seen the concept are, I'm optimistic.
The Man and Trickster look pretty boss.
Take or leave the Child - definitely wasn't what I was thinking for the Teddy.

>For Mei the Emissary is a must.
Justify.

I take her with Pork Delivery System, Kang and two Rail Workers, then commonly a Katanaka Sniper and Oiran Unless there's a reason not to.
Emissary on top of that is going to start eating .hard. into Cache/upgrades.

The emissary is generally there for the extra scrap. I think that it is a better idea than an oiran at least, as they don't bring anything for Mei.

The artstyle for those three characters looks really different and, in my opinion, worse than the older stuff. I hope this isn't the start of a new trend.

I have nothing. Yet. it's planning step now.

For Shen I see obvious interaction between Emissary and Monk of Low River for +3 cards per turn. For Asami, (+) is good, it's only in 4", but still good. Now I'm not sure between Yu and Emissary.
Problem with Emissary is his price of 10ss, when I also need some beater (like Izamu or Yasunori) and some smaller models. In other words - he is useful but also really expensive, from my point of view.
For Shen Yu + Emissary is almost half of the list (or it's no Yu with Shen). For Asami it's this or that.

It feels as if it's designed by people who have never seen Ten Thunders played before. No real synergy, no look at what they're missing vs. what they're full of, etc. Even after all those weeks they keep missing the mark completely on what's wrong with them.

The Emissary drops a free scrap+push that Mei can Railwalk to on any card except the Black Joker. My standard Mei list consists of Mei+4 SS of upgrades, Toshiro+Summoning, Porkchop and Emissary though, so you'll be up 2 activations turn 1 and if you can spare the 9's they'll turn into guaranteed Komainu too. Then you have 19 points left to build whatever you want (save like 3 at least for SS). I tend to pick the Emberling+LRM for cheap activations but that's very much up to you. Also the -1 Df per burning really helps if Mei's gotten a vapormancy in some people's face.

Well, the Emissary does have 2/3/6 with the option to take a free double focus on discard, so he can pack quite a punch. Add to that the blast he can add to whatever and 3 cards (which is absolutely insane) and he tends to fare a lot better in any combat capacity than Yu since he will always take one shot a turn at least.

Not sure what to think of the Wave 5 Ressers stuff. A bit of interesting utility, but we'll see if it actually finds places in lists.

Asura's naturally pretty wild, but she's not AS good as she looks on paper.

So your advice is to take Shen + Emissary instead of Shen + Yu? or to skip on other beaters with Shen?
Or rather better - do you have some skeleton crew with Shen, like you do with Mei?

Agreed.
I hope it was because they knew it was intended to be heavily altered by the events, so wanted a style they could work with easily.
It doesn't even sound that convincing to me though...

The Oiran are Disguised with an 8" Cg, buff friendly Wp, extra Defensive condition, have a Ml Trigger that means the target can't target Showgirls (Oiran) after succeeding, AND have a Lure (on >4C).

They don't have Mei synergy specifically, but one is useful for pulling things up the board (T1 double walk, T2 double Lure) and they make excellent spoilers - charge one at their lead model from 9" away, get the trigger off, then start of next turn go Defensive+2 for 1AP and Lure a Rail Worker in to charge position.

Also Belles have given anything with Lure-like abilities an undeserved reputation as pieces to be treated with respect.

Also the models are pretty.

I've been meaning to pick up Toshiro - want to work out how I can make him look technical/mechanical rather than undead.
Was thinking of trying to swap his intestines for a mess of wiring or pipes/tubes, war fan swapped for a wrench.

Unfortunately, even with the extra 1.5 activations per turn from Toshiro, I damn love Kang, and with him in there I'm down to six activations (or seven and no cache).

I know 10T roll elite, but that seems iffy.

I'm only recently sliding into 10T via Mei though, so I'm lacking a lot of staples.

I might be picking up pic related soon, but from what I hear her box is mostly full of shite.

Listening to the whining, you'd think the Corpse Cart (or whatever) giving marker delivery and decent damage and potentially bullshit levels of scheme scoring nonsense was piss in their mouths rather than more ridiculous utility for the faction.

There are times I wonder if they really understand how silly powerful Nicodem's card draw and activation control (in the context of that draw) really is, and that he doesn't need precision Corpse marker availability on top of that.

This may or may not be part of my attachment to Kang remarked upon above.

Those are nice features, but as far as helping Mei the Emissary is going to be a better idea, especially when it comes to activation control. You only really take the Oiran because they are the cheapest models that can take advantage of smoke and shadows. Even then they are only incidentally useful.

As far as Misaki's box goes, the models aren't bad. It is just that you will find more use with them with Jakob or McCabe.

Shen I find difficult because Yu is so ingrained in my playstyle but the Emissary is absolutely bonkers. It just feels like a waste to not bring Yu though I'm also feeling the constant pushes really reach some diminishing returns around end of t2. Lately I've been forcing myself to go without Yu because all my Shenlong lists would just start with Emissary+Yu and then hope I could squeeze in some 7/8 SS models.

Shen+Wandering, Peasant, Yu+Disciple, Emissary+Dawn is only 25 SS for 5 activations though, so you'd add like a Sniper, Lone Swordsman and LRM for a fairly generalised list and then add a RT+Misdirection or even just fit in a TTB or Effigy if you want to get to 9 activations. The Emissary and Shen then just dive in hard along the others t2/3 and you try to get the blast aura working the turns after that.

It tends to do well enough in the combat department, Yu provides ample buffs, pushes and heals and the LS can easily be replaced by Kang/etc but yeah, lately it's been something among the lines of that but with Yu or the Emissary+LRM replaced by another big hitter. Just a solid list that you can use in multiple ways.

Well, if t1 you have two 9+'s you will have two Komainus (and your LRM heals them back up) since the scrap is completely free. Kang is a go-to model against Ressers, naturally, though I don't really like Mei against them. If you're not summoning though, I rarely feel Mei needs the cache and is happy with about 3.

Misaki herself isn't exactly stellar. Fun, sure, but... They're not even bad pieces, they're just all slightly outclassed by models in similar roles. Ototo is a decent beater that really bites the dust in comparison to Izamu save for some Slow lists, and the Torakage are actually some decent schemerunners, but schemerunning and not picking the TTB is just blasphemy. They're fairly mobile and strong at hunting runners though.

Also I really wouldn't bother with the Oiran. Even with the free focus+fast they fall behind. If that Lure had been suited but like a 6 you'd see them everywhere but alas.

Probably not. Most people seem to play Nico as pure summoner, when he is a godlike supporter too.

Thanks, it is very useful information.

A pure killy Shenlong list I've enjoyed a lot lately is Shen+Wander, Peasant, Emissary, Sniper and LRM for 25 SS, and then some three model combination of Graves, Lone Swordsman, Bettari, Snipers, Illuminated, Kang, Burt Jebsen, etc. In an ideal world you'd get Shenlong Misdirection or maybe one or two of them RT. You won't have any cache but will have a massive threat in 6 of your 9 activations. And with the (0) focus being hurled around like candy you'll be living it up in +flip central/blast city.

It's hard to resist the urge to just buy an entire faction at once, haha. For now the monetary investment and not being emotionally strong enough to build that many Malifaux models quickly are sufficient deterrents.

I know the feeling. I want to buy Jack daw but I haven't even put together my von shill box yet and I've only played Misaki and hamelin once.

How's Lucius nowadays? I think I heard he got some errata awhile back.

He is pretty good now. It helps that a lot of new stuff works well with him. The errata lets him order austringers now too.

Glad to see Malifaux generals getting some traction on Veeky Forums this week, there hasn't been a lot of Malifaux here the last few weeks. I like talking Malifaux here because it's not the echo chamber that the Wyrd forums or AWP Facebook group are.

I bought an entire Hamelin crew and everything I'd ever need to play him, it's so daunting I've not done anything other than assemble some rats. I can't even begin to imagine how crazy you'd have to be to buy an entire faction.

How bad's the echo on the forums? I've been combing them for info lately.

It's not that hard to buy an entire faction with some deals and some time. With Ten Thunders it is pretty easy because there are a lot of models that you simply want to go without, so owning everything in the faction that you would ever play for TT isn't that bad.

it's not a cost thing, it's the sheer volume of horrible to assemble plastic kits

Assembly has never been too bad for me personally. You can grind through them over time without too much thinking. The most annoying part is filling gaps IMO. What is hard it actually painting everything to a decent standard. Though I may just be lazy.

Join the wyrd trades Facebook group. I've gotten some crazy deals on there

Wyrd has a new inhouse artist, her artstyle is close enough to the old stuff in my opinion. If you look at the monday previews on the Wyrd site you can see her recent stuff, the monster hunter and bultungin, they look a lot better.

I've given up on both and rarely talk at all about the game outside one other local player. There's one group of solid players on AWP that think they're better than they are and poison every discussion that comes up with WM/H style "My way is the only way!" attitudes, insult every idea they didn't provide and then steal them when they work.

On the forums you've mostly got the bottom ten percent of the player base who are two years behind the meta.

I'm really starting to dislike the hipster quotient that seems to be taking over the community.

The artist who drew that stuff is now Wyrd's only inhouse artist. Better get used to it. On the bright side TOS is at least not following suite.

Any tips or tricks for gap filling? I'm not nearly as good at it as I should be.

Don't really care about the new Resser stuff, none of it excites me at all.

I feel like waves 4 + 5 are fixing too many weaknesses in the factions, they are becoming homogenised.

I do it a couple of different ways. I get away with using plastic cement to weld some parts together (Seriously, check out Tamiya Extra Thin Plastic Cement). File and sand the excess off and you should be good. Cutting the glue off when it it is still pliable is a good idea as well.

With some parts and when I am scared of fucking something up, I go with greens stuff. I bought a massive roll of it from a hardware store for like $10, and got an even cheaper set of sculpting tools from aliexpress to use. I generally wet my fingers and the tools, press the putty into place, wait a bit, and scrape the excess off while putting pressure on it. I take this time to sculpt little things onto my models to sate my autism as well (Fixing the fourth dimensional guitar strap on Sue, adding actual stirrups to the female mounted guard). I used to use Testors Model Putty, but that shit would crumble off and leave a lot of dust which you had to remove with a hard bristled brush.

It can be a pain in the ass when you have a lot of models, especially as Wyrd'ss are among the more elaborate multi part plastics on the market, but it is much better than not filling in gaps IMO. People who don't fill obvious gaps are as bad as those people who don't paint or clean mold lines off of their models.

It's like any forum, you get the die hard regulars who all hold the same opinions. The tacticas on the factions specifice forums are decent, but they were the first real master guides created, so everyone treats them like gospel. Just don't be afraid to try your own ideas out.

Yep, I know exactly the guys you are talking about on AWP, they're certainly good players but their attitude towards the game is terrible.

Press green stuff in to the gap with a tool ( I use the flat side of an exacto knife, smooth it out, scrape away the excess, smooth it out.

I also just bought Hamelin + brotherhood of the rat, still waiting for it to arrive. The rats themselves will be piss easy to paint, so it's really only 12 models, down from 22. Luckily I already have a painted Killyjoy, so that saves me some effort.

Which guys are you talking about?

Even when you beat them off the table all you hear is garbage and excuses. They can be easy enough to deal with in person but several turn into keyboard warriors the second you're not standing in front of them.

Bet a dollar it's the team members who just won ITC a few weeks back.

Is Toshiro a decent Henchman for Tara? I'm just starting and think both of them are really cool looking models, and I'm willing to sacrifice peak performance to play with models I like. I'm just kind of hesitant since it doesn't seem like giving Toshiro fast does a whole lot to make him more effective at his job, and he already hands it out himself, so it seems like he might be stepping on Tara's feet a bit too much.

Yep, I've seen Nico played WIth Izamu, Datsue Ba and a few others just for undead crowning (or whatever it's called), it's gets pretty dirty, pretty fast.

Not to mention if any of the big hitters die he'll just summon a punk zombie to fill their place.

That's a pretty solid bet.

What are some nice addition to Guild Lucius?

Captain Dashel looks really solid to me.

Dashel comes with him of course, but if you really want to take advantage of him get some more guild guards so you can make full use of his upgrade. Other than that Witchling Thralls are a really good idea because they automatically pass the horror duels and hit hard. Austringers, wardens, terracotta warriors, a doppleganger, are all good bets.

Thanks!

Sorry, I'm a lowly novice, what upgrades do you mean?

With Ripples of Fate Dashel got an upgrade that lets him summon guild guard in base contact with enemies. Pretty handy in my opinion, especially if you can get it off once a turn.

I just saw it,spiffy jesus that looks strong,especially at a cost of 0. Then again i reckon Guild ain't got much summoning as is.

>Oiran
>If that Lure had been suited but like a 6 you'd see them everywhere but alas.
Holy shit yes.
That suit is so ruinously limiting it's unreal.

Butthey'd need to be another 7ss model if they had the suit, and you'd probably only ever see one then anyway.

>The tacticas on the factions specifice forums are decent, but they were the first real master guides created, so everyone treats them like gospel.
It really feels like Schemes & Stones, god-like starter/learning resource that it is, has warped the playerbase of the game.
And there are a whole bunch of dogshit players on there who don't seem to understand the concept of geographically isolated metas too, yes.

The AWP AIDS contingent must be Twavis and co.
I don't know if it's solely the attitude or if the voice is unduly setting me against him, but he annoys the piss out of me on the several podcasts I've heard him on.
If Max Value wasn't usually quite insightful I'd have to stop listening.

>Glue
Do you just put a crazy excess and hopee it fills and binds the gap?
I've tried that on a few models using the liquid polycement, but it still tends to leave a depression/sunken ridge when dried.
An improvement certainly over the big cracks though.

>Green stuff
Virtually all the gaps I've ever had problems with have looked too small for green stuff to be a sensible fix - they are so fine they are practically inverse mold lines, but just a little too big to fill with paint well.

Also, how do you store your GS?

Cheers for the tips.

AWP does pop out some gorgeous models though, like that one.
And also gigs of mediocre shit there's no real need to post.
But the occasional gem is worth it.

I don't know Tara, but being able to Fast him easily will mean that he'll be popping up Ahigaru and Komainu like daisies when the fighting actually starts.
And before then, there's no harm in an extra source of Fast and pushes.

He got the 0ss upgrade because previously no-one took him because there are better options.
I think it's probably still the case, but "Lucius is bad and Dashel's shit" became enough of a meme that he's simply not talked about.

I also think he looks pretty good, and when I finally nudge my box up over the 50ss limit, I'll be playing Dashel every time.
Unfortunately probably not with that upgrade, since it'll be in Neverborn, I need to spend stones on his upgrade slots to pad the list, and I only have the two GG from the crew box anyway.

Liquid green stuff for those I believe.

So the way I understand it, Lucius prefers to max out on minions.

Is a single guard Sergeant still a sensible take?

>Virtually all the gaps I've ever had problems with have looked too small for green stuff to be a sensible fix - they are so fine they are practically inverse mold lines

This is when you use the glue to melt the gap together.

>Also, how do you store your GS?
In a zip-lock bag on my hobby table, more so to keep dust and hobby sand away from it than anything else. I've head you can store mixed green stuff in the fridge, but I'm not sure if that was bullshit or not.

The models are half the reason I'm on there

Just finished my first model.

"Get low muchachos. "

Any C&C?

I made sample crew for Shenlong to test. There is no Low River Monk for now, since despite obvious synergy, I'll, probably, purchase their box later (buying 3 models, when I'll only need one, does not inspire). I'm not sure about 10T Brothers yet. Can switch one of them for second Sniper in the list. But think that I still need to buy them.
This is by no means attempt to create "all comers" - it's just a test to see what I should buy in the first place.

Shenlong
Wandering River Style, 2SS
Peasant, 2SS
Shadow Emissary, 10SS
Conflux of The Dawn
Katanaka Sniper, 7SS
The Lone Swordsman, 8SS
Ohaguro Bettari, 8SS
Ten Thunders Brother, 5SS
Ten Thunders Brother, 5SS

Available Soulstones: 50
Total: 47
Pool: 5

For now I have this purchase plan (including discounts) for two masters:
===
Temple of the Dawn (Shenlong box) - - 36.57
An Oni's Wrath (Asami box) - - 45.71
Shadow Emissary - - 35.42
Katanaka Sniper - - 14.85
Lone Swordsman - - 9.15
Obsidian Oni - - 20.58
Ten Thunders Brothers - - 16.63
=== Total: 179$

I'm planning to pre-order Yasunori (+36.69) for Asami. And that will place me to, approximately, 215$ for 2 masters.
I definitely needs Low River Monks, but will wait a little - maybe I'll find exactly one model on the aftermarket.
Toshiro, Komainu and Porkchop will go much later, with Mei Feng. Izamu will go later as well, probably.

What else should I include in purchase list for now? Or plan for the near future.

And his behind.

Nice. He is better without mohawk, I think. By "first model", you, probably, meant "first malifaux model", not "not first model ever", right?

Anyone have any experience playing with/against Titania, I'm trying to get better at using her and I could do with some general advice about how to play her better.

I've against her once, fears given form is a brutal upgrade for her, she forces the fears given form test on models that activate, then they take another best if they are in base to base with a scheme marker else take more damage. This combo single handedly fucked my crew, give it a go.

Yeah. :)

Has been a while since I painted, but this ain't my first rodeo.

I was going for a "Bane" esque look (the cables just made it too fitting) which is why I razored off the hair. Any suggestions to get closer to it?

His glasses and bald head pushed me to think about the Riddick (in his film form at least). I can't make suggestion about Bane, since I'm not very familiar with him. You should wait for another user instead.

not mine

Jesus, it just ties together magnificently, don't know what part to praise first.

You guys have any 'fears' that the game is reaching some sort of tilting point? A lot of reactions to the Wave 5 models is that factions seem to be running out of relevant design space, or at least Wyrd can't think of interesting things to add.

I'm a new player, so I don't think my opinion holds much merit here, but I think there should be a good amount of design space left, you just gotta get creative.

For starters, what about a model that switches control over two models? Something that adds conditions/extra damage if fired through, like a mobile array for guild? Line shots that penetrate, making positioning more crucial?

I'm sincerely want as much comments, critique and insight as possible on this - , before I'll make an actual monetary investment.

I'm not super familiar with 10 thunders models because there's only one player in our meta that plays them but if you only need to pick up a single of a model check out gadzooksgaming. I got a single Jorogumo (for outcast Misaki) for $7

Thanks for the info. I know about that shop, but never used it before. Right now I'm trying to persuade someone from my meta to buy something from gadzooksgaming with me, since otherwise delivery cost may be a little steep (east Europe, not EU). My other option, that I'm trying now too, is to persuade someone else to split LRM box with me.
It's not even the cost that bothers me, to be honest. It's knowing that part of the box will just stay unassembled (I don't like assemble and paint things that I don't plan to use ever). If no one will be hooked, and I'll buy full box of three - I'll most likely just gift surplus models to whoever will want to take 10T next in our meta.

So of the Wave 4 Masters, who ended up the most power creep-y? Sandeep or Reva?

Sandeep>Reva=Nellie>Zipp>Parker>Titania=Asami

Parker, Sandeep and Reva

So, Asami and Titania are weakest out of 7 masters? Are they weakest in their factions too?
And are Sandeep\Reva\Nellie strongest in theirs?

From what the store clerk told me, it's less that they're stronger, and more that they have more versatility. So whereas Masters from previous editions had a linear purpose, the new ones can be used for pretty much anything. That being said, they are (allegedly) more difficult to play and only really "stronger" in the hands of a good player who knows what he's doing.

It's funny people are talking up Parker when sic months ago he was "completely unplayable." And people cried about how mediocre Sandeep was forever.

The people who are "good" at this game and discuss it publicly are absolute trash who change their minds every fifteen minutes and try too shame anyone who disagrees.

...People called Sandeep mediocre? lol

He is a good example of though. He is very, very good and versatile but you have to know what you're doing with him. He's not as sturdy as he looks, and using his strengths can be complicated.