Ruinstorm

>It is telling that even Chaos fans hate the new fluff.

Now we don't. Eat the biggest dicks.

And The Emperor is the bad guy. Properly the worst person to ever live(d) but the alternative is way worse. This is something that get hammered a lot in the HH series which you don't read.

>No we don't
The fluff's bad

go away carnac

Originally he wasn't. I think the Dark Imperium, even though it's a blook clearly intended as an ad for the box set, nailed that point in their new fluff.
He didn't like men but he would do (and did) anything for Mankind. Next thing you're gonna tell me he was a tyrant because he wasn't elected and therefore should be opposed at every turn?
Of course the new fluff portrays him as a bad guy, it's written with a Chaos bias so big it stopped being funny ages ago.

Dumbass. In the same book, Girlyman is horrified at the inhumanity and monstrosity of the Emperor. He is coldness and cruelty made manifest.

He might love mankind (or the idea of mankind really) but he is utterly evil and his "love" is as toxic as Nurgle's love. It's no wonder that EVERYONE that knew him personalty thinks that he is a major cunt. Like EVERYONE.

And like I said he is a bad guy but the Chaos Gods are waaay worse. People who want to make the Emperor the abject good guy are just straight up retards who are missing the point.

>The mighty Chaos Gods humbling a faithless cur who dared steal their flame, in the most triumphant way possible

Best fluff ever. Ten of of ten.

School's out for summer.

Hahahaha oh my god Sanguinius has Ojou-Sama curls ahahaha

I can't unsee. I wish I could burn every HH book on the earth.

>and the lion dyes his hair blonde but not his beard
HAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

old fag here emperor is malal

What is he's dyed his beard black and his hair is naturally blonde.

Eyebrows are blonde

I think you're right

People actually read these novels?

I mean, Gaunt's Ghosts was an original story and Ciaphas Cain was really self-aware and funny. But why would anyone want to read about space eunuchs when you already know what's going to happen?

>when you already know what's going to happen?
Because they retconned everything so you don't. Also those series came from the golden age of BL

Sure is summer in here

Read the first ones because I wanted to know the reasons different characters went traitor.

Still reading, even through the dumbest of the dumb bullshit (Fucking perpetuals? WTF?) because I started reading it and now I need to know how it ends.

>now I need to know how it ends.
Horus dies and the Emperor is put on life support and the Imperium endures for 10000 years before Guilliman comes back to create a new status quo.

Not what I meant and you know it.

Still wanna read it faggot.

He is horrified but the whole point of hi chapter is Guiliman doing 2 things:
Getting closer to accepting he may be a god (I love that passage because it shows every theory about Empy's divinity) and UNDERSTANDING why Empy did it, to in turn do it himself. He litteraly admits that he and Empy cannot afford to give the truth, since their burden is so heavy and the task so tremendous, and in his lie to the priest it's easy to see that he accepts the Emperor's ways, because you can't make an omelette without breaking any eggs.
The facts that Guiliman, even while pissed at the lies of the Emperor and the false love he showed, understands and reproduces Empy's methods shows that Big E was right all along.

This is EXACTLY what I thought too. I even pictured the same character.

What the fuck was BL thinking when they allowed this cover to see the light of day?

Yeah, those english curls are bloody terrible. He looks like an old grandma.

>What the fuck was BL thinking
Ojou best girl
Sanguinius best boy
therefore
Sanguinius = Ojou

I'm more bothered by the fact that he has a beard at all, and that he's using a fucking Chainsword.

Why GW?

>2018
More like 2020.

>NounNoun
Shit.

>ADB's made it clear that in their vision, Horus lost because Chaos wanted him to.
What the fuck?

>It feels predestined
Isn't that actually Greek tragedy though, that the seeds of your downfall are rooted in your own actions?

Before, it was just that mankind and the Emperor were too weakened by their emotions. Now it's actually realistic, and the Emperor was actually the progressive utopian fighting against regressive, reactionary elements that worshipped stupid shit.

I hope you're not talking shit about chainswords and your complaint is that the Lion is a knightly figure and his aesthetic is better served by a power sword.

Yup. The Horus Heresy is being retconned into JUST AS PLANNED. But don't worry, GW has heard your cries. 8e will ensure that Chaos is not longer neglected and forgotten in the fluff. :^)

>Isn't that actually Greek tragedy though, that the seeds of your downfall are rooted in your own actions?

Greek tragedy is indeed that your downfall is a result of your own actions and faults, typically something like hubris. So in these tragedies, if the hero was less proud, more wise, a better judge of character, had listened to good advice, or otherwise was able to overcome their faults and failings, then their downfall could have been averted. It is tragic because IF ONLY then the events that made the tragedy a tragedy would not have transpired.

Which is different from predestination because in that case, what happens will happen no matter what and you cannot change the course of events. It does not matter if you are good or bad, smart or stupid, wise or foolish . . . the course of events was set out already and cannot be changed.

Pic related has some exagerations and /pol/ outbursts but it does summarise ADB's issues raised in MoM fairly well.

Yeah, guess you're right. I'll have to re-read what actually defines a greek tragedy to avoid talking shit.

>53844657
Yeah, my complaint is that the Lion has never been pictured with a chainsword before. Hell, the exavt same artist showed him with a proper power sword recently.

>Which is different from predestination because in that case, what happens will happen no matter what and you cannot change the course of events. It does not matter if you are good or bad, smart or stupid, wise or foolish . . . the course of events was set out already and cannot be changed.

Which is what BL seems to imply at some points, like the "Chaos won" in MoM, as soon as Magnus breaks the Webway. I seem to remember some passages in other books where it is implied the Emperor planned the Heresy. Or have I let memes go to my head?

He has ALWAYS used a power sword. Hell, Cypher is still carrying the damn thing 10 thousand years after the destruction of Caliban!

>It's no wonder that EVERYONE that knew him personalty thinks that he is a major cunt. Like EVERYONE.
Malcador says hi, go screech autistically elsewhere please.

HORUS LUPERCAL PLEASES OLD CHAOS GODS FOR MONEY OHOHOHOHO

The Emperor as all of humanity's best and worst magnified is good.

The Emperor as "daddy doesn't love his kids and is horrible and evil and stuck up" makes it seem like the BL authors are projecting their own insecurities and psychological problems in childhood (perhaps their parents don't approve of their choice to write novels about little toy men?) onto somebody else.

>But why would anyone want to read about space eunuchs when you already know what's going to happen?

Because with what they've done it's anyone's guess what will happen next
>Perpetuals
>Alpharius/Omegon
>The Cabal
>Immortal Vulkan

At this point I'm honestly wondering if the Emps is going to lose his physical body due to some bizarre plot twist and his spirit is forced to possess Garviel Loken in the final showdown with Horus

>Now we don't
Yes we do. This new shit is awful, and being a constantly-wanked villainous mary sue is boring.
-Black Legion player

Friendly reminder that he cries for every dead soldier and the custodes collect his tears.

He was still an autist though, and his utopian vision for man and understanding of the threat of chaos was fundamentally flawed.

Iirc lion broke his sword over his thigh for being a lying autistic hypocrite to finally wrangle curze in the last book.

Actually that was one of the more enjoyable primarch fights. Poor curze is the asshole that's always right

>Immortal Vulkan
This perpetual shit is the wierdest most jarring thing and is totally out of place in the universe. Like, why?

I know that masochism is an important part of worshipping Dark prince but do you really prefer to campaign for little to no gain with no hope of achieving something?

>Like, why?

I think it was concevied as a backwards rationalisation for why Vulkan and the Emps were immortal, but I think if they have Oll in the final battle it will ruin the original meaning, i.e. the futility of a lone guardsman facing down a chaos-empowered primarch but doing it anyway

But who knows, maybe Oll will pull some Marty-Sue bullshit in the end

He has a magical girl staff too...

Lion Sword is kill.

F

I prefer battles that actually have stakes, "hurr durr Chaos winz no matter what" is just plain idiotic. If a warband shows up on a planet and gets massacred, then Chaos has lost the battle and their patron god(s) diminish ever so slightly as their followers perish. At least, that's the actually interesting way to do it. You could also do an ADB and say that if the Imperium kills its enemies, they win.

>I prefer battles that actually have stakes
We had it before and we lost every time. Greedy Wankers know that imperial fanboys are their largest customers that would get triggered as fuck Chaos won a major battle without massive losses. Before Gathering Storm we had no accomplishments whatsoever.
Regrettably we traded one status quo for another.

>as fuck IF
selffix

>muh headcanon, muh feelings

Literally every HH thread.

We know for a fact that ADB has daddy issues, since his was an alcoholic that beat his mom. Easy to presume others havr the same kind of problem and let their Chaos boner influence them too much. Just like how The Last Church is wayyyy too much of a pamphlet on how atheism is might and right and religion sucks.

>Just like how The Last Church is wayyyy too much of a pamphlet on how atheism is might and right and religion sucks.

Was it really? Last I remember the Priest called out the Emps for being the last in a long line of cunts that disguised their ambitions in claims that they were only acting for the "greater good" of humanity

i'm not even a /k/ommando and this was painful to watch

is this a comedy or is it real?

McNeill is a huuuuge fan of Richard Dawkins, he even has a pic with him and all.
I'm all for the slow loss of interest in religions but damn that was heavy handed.

I think Haley did it better in Dark Imperium, even though it's only parts of the book. Guiliman's reflexions about the Emperor's divinity and actions are top notch and if every BL had that quality of writing, the new HH would be muuuch better, and the big change in Empy not liking his sons would have been more accepted.

>We know for a fact that ADB has daddy issues, since his was an alcoholic that beat his mom.
Well, I feel kind of bad for him if that's the case.

Doesn't change that I think it's a bad decision to write at odds with pre-existing "canon" in 40k like that, but shit sucks.

I agree on the Last Church though, if only because I find it to be utterly terrible writing, it reads like an edgy teenager's argument for atheism. Dark Imperium did it much better with Guilliman's reactions to the Ecclesiarchy and Mechanicum throughout.

Exactly.

>McNeill is a huuuuge fan of Richard Dawkins, he even has a pic with him and all.

>Sanguinius, Guilliman and the Lion depart for Terra
>1 primarch who fought at the battle of Terra accompanies 2 primarchs who were too far away from Terra to make it in time and who's imminent arrival was cause for Horus' failed gambit

She's a russian reporter. Think she wasn't issued ear plugs. It's on youtube but I couldn't find a translation.

>Doesn't make any sense with their new fluff with him seeing them as tools,
The perspectives seen of the Emperor are subjective. Christ.

Why would Guiliman have a perspective of the Emperor like this then? He wanted the exact opposite when he met with him after 10k years, he was looking for a real father, like Konor Guiliman was for him. Instead that's when he discovered Emoy didn't actively love him.

Is it good, is it bad? That depends on what you like. However, I don't think that the excuse of "the Emperor's perception is subjective" can be used, since BL seems very keen to retcon the Emperor as a cold, calculating being, making it nigh impossible to argue that Empy can genuinely love and care about someone as well. Haley is one of the few to counterbalance that well with Guiliman admitting to himself in the end of Dark Imperium that the Empero's methods was justified. In the beginning, there's this whole emphasis about truth, protection of life, yada yada, but at the end, Guiliman sees that ruthlessness, cold logic and lies can achieve a lot more sometimes, and that leading the Imperium does not leave room for sentiments.

>tfw we will never see the awe, beauty and terror of the siege of Terra from the perspective of a mortal, or even marine
>we will never read about marines and guardsmen fighting days long battles in the orbital defenses against Daemons and worse
>we will never read about the confusion of the battle on the ground, under the shadows of the Titans
>All we will ever read about is the perspective of a few exceptional individuals killing nameless mobs and fighting the occasional boss battle with a foregone conclusion

Yeah, I think that should've been the entire basis of the HH series - literally just the view of how things panned out from ground-level spess mehreens and Imperial Army units. Though to be devil's advocate I honestly don't think it would be half as popular if it stuck to that route, with the primarchs making fleeting appearances

If done well, anything goes in my opinion. The best BL aren't always the ones you expect. But they're always well written.

>The best BL aren't always the ones you expect. But they're always well written.

It might just be me but many of the short stories are imo superior to the book-length ones, maybe it's because they don't have to deal with the primarch bullshit in those
>The Final Compliance of Sixty-Three Fourteen
>Distant Echoes of Old Night
>The Last Church

>And The Emperor is the bad guy.
yes, the individual who puts the suvival of mankind above all else, is the bad guy,

while the people who sacrifice billions to their dark gods, and are uppity because daddy didn't love them, are the good guys.

The traitors range from a scale of Unwitting Accomplices to Chaotic Evil Lunatics. None of their actions are in any way justified, and are in direct opposition to Human interests in the Galaxy.

>Fucking Guilliman breaking my good sword, now I have to use this fucking chainsaw shit.
>I can't even have a moment to shave with all this heresy shit going on.
>I wish I was on Caliban shagging my sons.

Plantetkill is still the best Black Library release ever in my book. The classic feel of the universe, interesting perspectives from character types we never see any more, and GRIM darkness.

Could anyone post the BL tier list images? Or just recommend some for a plane trip

>And The Emperor is the bad guy.
Except this is 40K.

By the standards of the setting, he is the good guy.

That's the thing: the Emperor is the last, best hope for humanity. Because in the galaxy he clings to life within, sustained by arcane technology, in constant, horrible pain, in an Imperium that exists as the most terrifyingly fascist dictatorship to have ever existed, this is the best hope Mankind has if it wishes to survive, to be more than mere playthings for laughing gods. And so he continues, against all odds, against all he might wish for in the peace of death, he continues because he still loves mankind despite all that it has done, often in his name, and continues providing the last light in a galaxy that grows ever darker.

You must not read a lot of BL, because there's almost always a C plot involving some norma human characters every few chapters.

Malcadork did not know the Emperor personally. Not like Alivia Surek and Olly Pius. Eat a dick.

He didn't see past the disguise to the bastard hidden behind it.

No, he doesn't. Retconned. He cares not for MEN.

Black Legion are not wanked. They lost the ground battle in Cadia and properly failed the 13th Black Crusade.

Please go.

> Why would Guiliman have a perspective of the Emperor like this then? He wanted the exact opposite when he met with him after 10k years, he was looking for a real father, like Konor Guiliman was for him. Instead that's when he discovered Emoy didn't actively love him.

Remember: the Emperor's been stuck on the Golden Throne for 10 millennia. In constant torment, if the occasional bits of lore that we get on his current situation are to be taken as fact. His state of mind in M41 may not be representative of how he was in M31.

Not that I even disagree with what you're saying, but it's worth keeping in mind that the corpse on the gold toilet quite likely isn't the same person who was put on it at the end of the Heresy.

>Malcadork did not know the Emperor personally.

If Malcador didn't know the Emperor personally, then how come he worked for him?

Checkmate theists.

All so people can go "oh, it's so *gritty* and *relatable* compared with the Marineshit bolterporn", despite 95% of those C-list normies being utterly disposable and interchangeable as characters.

>Malcador
>speaks with the Emperor's voice
>Emperor's Regent
>Holy Lord of Terra
>the Sigillite
>close advisor throughout the Unification Wars and Great Crusade, and Horus Heresy
>Emperor trusted him enough to listen to his advice and let him do his own thing as needed
>only Malcador was allowed to freely come and go in the Emperor's personal, private experiment vaults

>didn't know the Emperor personally

Here's your (You), please neck thyself posthaste.

The same way the Primarchs worked for him for long without realising how little he values them as persons and "sons".

and your source for that is?

You

see
Not even his "sons" and Custards who were his longest companions, knew him personally.

And please cite sources that shows that he knew the Emperor personally at the same level of the other Perpetuals who knew him when he was a man, saw what he has become, and disdained him for what he has done.

It's fine with the other ones because all we know about the other events are focused on the events between Primarchs and other big players, with relatively few big set pieces. The ones we have seen were fairly mixed, isstvan V was basically focused on the Primarchs, and that other one where the Word Bearers invaded Ultramar, which was really good.

C plots that suck most of the time. You're right though, I really haven't kept up with the HH for a while.

Dude all but worshipped the Emperor. That's not something someone who truly knew the Emperor would do.

Compare his reverence with the Emperor's True Perpetuals peers contempt. Malecadork is a recent development.

Custodes knew him reasonably well actually, even ADB says it with MoM when Ra talks about how regular conversation with the Emperor, philosophy, and remembrances of days long past is a regular thing for them. The difference is that the Custodes agree with him, while the "perpetuals" disagree.

The Custards didn't know the origins of the Emperor and reason for many of of his past deeds until he told one of them to prepare him to house the essence of Drach'nyen.

That looks fucking awful.

Why are SO MANY of the HH bookcovers utter dog breakfast cg nightmares?

because the few good ones are worth it

God, he looks more like Azis every time I see him.

what a god awful cover

>muh perpetucucks
Kill yourself. Fanfiction not welcome.