Paizo Games General /pgg/ (also /pfg/)

Mate don't spill that shit in the thread, its not right

This is why you don't let autists GM.

Luna did nothing wrong!

In every Discord.

can we not.

Fuck off Sigh.

>luna
>sigh
Who the fuck?

For some reason people are bringing minor discord drama to the thread and.

I don't know why.

Just ignore them and it'll go away.

06/16-17/17 shall be remembered as the 24 hours of Spaghetti during which Tuv, Luna and 2hu all spaghetti'd

Isn't Luna only on the cabalcord? Did 2hu sperg in both discords at once?

Is that strong? I just grabbed summoner where I don't need to use eidolon. Should I just stick to no archetype and not have eidolon out?

Really the amount of spaghetti dropped in the past 24ish hours has been unreal, but I wish we wouldn't bring discord spaghetti to the thread

Master Summoner is literally the strongest possible summoner.

Why are you being summoner if you don't want to use Eidolon!?

What did 2hu do?

Because I want to summon monsters for extended periods of time? Do other classes have the opportunity to have minute-long summons? I thought synthesist was the OP summoner, what breaks master summoner?

Heightened Communal Mount tbqh

What breaks master summoner is summoning monsters for extended periods of time. This is also what breaks summoner.

Summon monster is gamebreaking.

You've pretty much automatically removed yourself from the running using Master Summoner. It's the same reason your Celestial Summoner archetype request was denied, it's basically the same thing.

Action economy. Synthesist is actually a downgrade to summoner and is mostly inferior to a well built wild-shape druid from level 4 on.

It's just really good from levels 1-3 aka rusty dagger shank town so most GMs auto-ban it. If druid had wildshape from level 1 it would be the same deal.

Also regular summoner gets minutes/level summons anyways

Heightened Communal Mount is actually suboptimal as a Summoner, because your spell progression is slowshit.

Synthesist is actually the weakest summoner.

Yeah but why play a summoner when you can play a Wizard and use HCM anyway

It's both strong and disruptive. Consider that the SRD actually has a disclaimer about playing Master Summoner because of how slow it makes the game, and even has the audacity to suggesting making other players at the table play your monsters for you. Then consider that online games can often already be slow.

Because you can play a Sorcerer and use HCM. Alternately, play a damn Witch and do it, and shit fortune buffs out of your ass like cum out of a whore's pussy

Should I just use regular summoner and not use eidolon? I am not sure what the difference is really, I could also just go oracle and grab the summon spells I suppose, maybe grab extend spell to fix it.

But sorcerers get spells later
Also they're scrubs and not cool

You should not make a summon focused character, you absolute shithead, they're cancer.

Play a regular summoner with a focus on the eidolon, it's the weaker of the two options.

desu summoners are cool in concept
They're just
So disruptive on the table and ESPECIALLY online because games are unbearably slow already

>Do other classes have the opportunity to have minute-long summons?
Yes.

They are the absolute worst.

In concept I don't think they're that bad but in practice yeah

You shouldn't play anything that focuses on casting lots of summon spells in a game ever, let alone an online one.

Man, Sorcerers are charisma based.

They're the epitome of cool.

They also just KNOW magic rather than having to study like NERDS.

Literally the only summon build I would think of as not total cancer is an ASM build focused on summoning a shitton of Aether Elementals, that just float around and act as telekinetic batteries from long range. They're flying and invisible, so all they really do is give you extra attacks.

You frankly shouldn't play summoner but if you just absolutely have to do it, focus on the eidolon

They only know a little magic though, unlike Wizards who know ALL the magic.

>Someone with 20 in any stat is supposed to be at the peak of humanity.
Hate to break it to you, but I have 21 Intelligence and there are a million people in the world smarter than I am.

Wizards don't 'know' any magic!

And they can only remember a spell once and then forget it like a dummy!

LARPing has begun.

Suppose I'll swap over to oracle and not do summoning, just liked the idea a lot, but for the sake of a good game it just doesn't work.

Sorcs know like ten spells at level 7
A Wizard knows a hundred

Its just the nature of the mechanic, it bogs down games.

Wizards don't actually "know" a single damn spell unless they take a feat for it. They just write them down.

He CAN have a hundred IN HIS SPELL BOOK. There's no guarantee that he will.

Take that away and he can't magic for shit besides Read Magic.

Sorcs don't know any spells either, they need to take a feat for it to even write it down.
Sorcs are pussies because they have tiny itty bitty spell lists
Spell lists are like an arcane caster's dick size

>unironically having only one spellbook
>unironically not having sixty backups

It's not LARPing. I mapped the bell curve of 3d6 to a larger model with more granularity and no 3 and 18 limits. IQ and INT are directly interchangeable. They're both just measurements of how much an individual's intelligence is deviating from the mean.

Is Warpriest||Unchained Monk a good build for a wacky Scythe fighter? I figured Crusader's Flurry and going full Urgathoa would be the way to go.

>i-it's not LARPing! It's AUTISTIC larping!

its retarded but i like it

H-hayai!

>IQ and INT are directly interchangeable
Incorrect. 18 is the highest base stat possible at character creation, 20 with a human bonus towards Int.

k

>Sorcerers don't know spells

Uh, yes they do. They explicitly know the spell, they have it entirely in their minds.

Also

>Wizards have infinite money to scribe all this shit

You know that getting new spells and adding them to a spellbook costs money, right?

*casts Cloudkill with my bonus 5th level spell slot*
Nothing personell...kid...

>You know that getting new spells and adding them to a spellbook costs money, right?
>money unironically being a problem for adventurers
>especially for Wizards who have multiple ways to simply shit out money and break WBL in half
The only reason this isn't an issue in most games is because the DM clears his throat and raises his eyebrows when you start pulling bullshit.

Do you want to add up how much it'd cost to have 100 fucking spells in sixty fucking spellbooks? Even if they're all level 1?

>casting cloudkill
>not using *pssh* as a sound effect
Wasted opportunity, your memeing license has been revoked

I should write an archetype, the 'White room' wizard, with access to all spells at all times, infinite money, and that cannot have their alignment changed by casting spells because they lose all sense of right and wrong

I did the math a little while ago, and it'd cost an alchemist just under 700 gold to have every level 1 alchemist formula in his book.

Wizards have a fuckload more spells available than alchemists.

I might app with it if I see a ripe game that isn't too serious, allows Evil-ish characters, and allows gestalt.

Do you know how little your average arcane caster cares when he can shit out money without limit?

>100 spells in 60 spellbooks
I don't remember the cost for a level 1 spell (100 gp?) but it's not as if there are 6000 spells in the game to begin with. It'd probably be a million or so to scribe every spell inte game desu.

So Overlewd.

Why not play a human, /pgg/? I've noticed that a lot of people seem to try to diverge as much from Human as possible.

1. They don't, humans are probably still one of the most popular choices for a character
2. Humans are overpowered

Recall this fucko's level 7, yeah?

I only play humans or half-humans.

I'm aware of #2, but maybe I'm just annoyed with how often tieflings or even aasimar are basically the second choice, so my tables are nothing but tieflings and humans, especially when they just end up taking Pass for Human

Realistically Tiefs especially kind of need to take PfH depending on the culture they're in. A lot of times being a tief is not something you like.

Meant for

I thought it washilarious, since he was making fun of me and secretly my favorite PC's signature spell is fog related and super weeby. She calls it Kitsune no Yomeiri.

Tieflings and aasimar are also very strong, and offer a lot of variety in stat choice

See as each first level spell will cost you 15 gold

each second level spell costs 60 gold to scribe in as well, which adds up super fucking fast.

Each third level spell will cost 135.

Each fourth level spell costs 240

You're talking about literally over a hundred spells for each spell level. let's assume it's an even 100, for the same of simplicity, yeah?

1500 for the level 1s, 6000 for the level 2s, 13500 for the level 3s, 24000 for the level 4s.

A level 7 character's WBL is 23,500. So you burned it all and don't have anything but spells - no magic items, no consumables, nothing, and you didn't even get it all. This is obviously an exaggeration, but even a fraction of what you're suggesting is too much.

Some favored class bonuses for other races are juicy.

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna romance a thrune, and I won't be stopped!

Honestly, I've found that I often was a better caster than a primary by being a Sorcerer with scrolls on hand than by being a Wizard struggling with shitty WBL.

Thought Fabricate was a level 4 spell for some reason, oh well; level 9 then.
>WBL
Well again my point is that an arcane caster doesn't really care too much about WBL, especially if he's not an adventurer and therefore can sell his Craft Wondrous Item at normal price.

Have fun! I hear it's difficult, but the rewards should be well worth it.

What's your plan?

Elves and Dorfs are rare tho yeah?

a better caster than a wizard*

Is that just the 'to scribe in' cost?

Or does that include stuff like 'paying another caster to let you copy from his book' or 'buying scrolls'?

To extrapolate on this point: Humans are powerful for feat-heavy builds in the earlygame. They spike quickly because of the bonus feat. Moreover, they have some of the best FCBs in the game.

However, for anything that isn't overly feat-focused in its build - unlike martials, casters don't require nearly as many feats to do their job - humans don't have any big advantages over other races. In these cases the half-bloods reign supreme, especially Half-elf and Scion of Humanity Aasimar.

Skilled is also really good for 2+Int or 4+Int classes.

it includes the cost of paying another spellcaster for the right to copy spells. you can cut the costs down by as much as a third from what I listed there, but that still means the level 2s alone would run you for 4000 gold.

Oh, you're talking about NPCs? Have fun being under the complete control of the GM then, you goalpost moving moron.

>you're talking about NPCs?
I'm talking about the world yeah, not about players since when it comes to players the actual abilities depend entirely on how good the player is at breaking shit, which applies to all classes.

It's not nearly as major of an advantage though. Skills hardly ever matter outside of Perception and your specialty (trapspringing rogues, diplomancing oracles, knowledgefag wizards, etc), and you usually have enough points for that.

Well the extra feat is obviously a massive dealmaker for a lot of people. Sometimes you just need that first feat faster.

So you're basically ignoring the fact that we're arguing for relevancy in the face of PCs?

The hassle of doing all this?

the fact that NPCs don't have access to the rulebooks, and thus don't have the perfect spell for every occassion, even assuming they know Fabricate is a spell in the first place?

How about that whole thing with the GM trying to avoid breaking the world?

Your argument is flawed. You're pressing an "I win the argument" button without presenting a proper case.

>relevancy in face of PCs
We...were?
Because that doesn't even look like an argument to me. If PCs make each other irrelevant than they're all retards, and anyway - Sorcs are spellslingers, Wizards are Batman and actually being able to use metamagic.

>Pretty much all of the published Paizo casters are gimmicky assholes with sub-optimal spell lists
>Even if they would have "I win" buttons, their personalities often prevent them from just using it unless pressed to the wall

I don't even know what the guy's talking about, even NPC casters have flaws and personalities and moralities that prevent them from being God.

Maybe 1% of GMs will let you break the game with Fabricate. 9 out of 10 who do are probably high at the time.