TAG - /tax avoidance general/

Look up 2018

forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/

Go ahead and test the system during their crackdown.

Nothing. Changed. LIKE KIND was never ever allowed before.

How will the IRS ever know you acquired that money from trading in the first place? Once you've pulled out of binance, and your trading exchanges outside of the US, how are they going to even force those places to give them your data? These places dont collect your SS number, they dont issue 1099 form, because none of this stuff is traded in USD. This stuff cant even be bought or sold for USD, so it technically has to USD value, so your gains would be 0 USD anyway, all your gains are in ETH, BTC, or what ever you trade in.
And if they ever try to crack down, whats stoping you from haveing your account "Hacked" and all your money stolen, and you writing it off as a capital loss? You trade everything to monero and send it to a private wallet off the exchange. Then a couble of years later you trade to ETH and sell for profit. And just claim you friend mined some years ago and gave you some when they were worth less than a cent, and you just found the wallet on one of your old PCs. Or that you bouth an old laptop at a thrift shop and would you found all the ETH on the HD, how lucky are you!
The only way they can make you pay those taxes is if you voluntarily comply and you dont have to pay anything until you convert to USD.

When your bank automatically reports latge transactions to the irs.

And all the scenarios you listed are also taxable.

Holy fuck biz is full of morons.

When you get audited they'll either assume your basis is $0 for all trades or send you to ass rape prison.

Move to Belarus

news.bitcoin.com/belarus-legalizes-cryptocurrencies-icos-tax-free/

This isn't even hard. You download a list of your trades and put it into bitcoin.tax/ and it will give you the tax you owe. You pay the tax.

Why are people making this more difficult than it needs to be.

The only real issue is moving your stack to another crypto and then it tanks and you don't have enough to pay the tax because you have a large stack. This does suck. After a real big windfall you should cash out 30 percent of it to cover taxes.

You can correct or amend these to clarify it was in the course of trade or business, but you wont even argue that

IRS will apply a zero cost basis and fuck you over more thamif you just paid your taxes.

Not the found one. Found assets arent taxable i thought.
Also your bank doesnt file reports for transactions under 10k, so as long as youre not being audited they wont notice if youre careful

Holy shit can you imagine how you can live there as a crypto millionaire when every other pleb only makes like $200 a month?

also
>hot sluts who will do anal on the first date
>everything cheap as fuck

This guy gets it.

And the irs will wonder where the fuck the associated taxes are. And you get audited. I'm a CPA and a lot of people listening to biz retards are about to get totally fucked.

This.

He's right. The new law simply clarifies due to people trying to game the system and saying it's a grey area. Each trade is taxable now.

as long as the hot sluts accept monero then we good

And banks also report if you do tons of 8 or 9k transactions. And you get federal tax evasion charges.

Pay your fucking 15% tax Jesus christ.

>tfw 2 citizenships masterrace
>have accounts in 2 different names
>can move around money undisturbed
>if anyone asks, the money comes from my rich aunt which lives abroad

>Pay your fucking 15% tax Jesus christ.
fucking make me faggot

Uh no you dumbfuck, like kind HAS been allowed, up until NOW. Starting Jan 1st 2018, ONLY REAL ESTATE is considered like kind..get it fucking right.

>p-please p-pay for the niggers
How about no?

Why can't you just pay taxes, why risk it

Show me anywhere in the IRC or CFR that legally Defines Trade or Business as anything other than holding a PUBLIC OFFICE domiciled in Washington D.C.

Show me Legal boy I will give you a fucking whole Bitcoin if you can do this

Sure you would have to pay income tax on whatever you pull out to USD, but thats only what you pull out, and you dont have to pay all the taxes on each individual trade. Lets say you make 1 mil trading crypto, you pull out 20k to do something like pay off your car. You hay the tax on that 20k, and not the 1 mil you have sitting in you crypto wallets. You only pay taxes on what you have to.

Need monero debit cards, problem solved lol

Any of you lads know what the situation is in the UK?

I don't mind paying tax if we're not retarded like the clapistanis and try to tax every trade

Why should we give our crypto money to refugees. God I hate America.

Anyone know anything about Spain?

>Pay your fucking 15% tax
I wish it was only 15% where i live.

can you just keep track of what you put in and what you pull out and calculate the tax rate on that difference? Surely the maths is the same?

what they gonna do
no exchange has a pic of me nor my real name
i only trade on binance for now
if they want my money they can work hard to get it lmao
still have bittrex with a 0,4 btc daily limit but i dont trust these fucks anymore

Brainlet here. What if you travel out of the US, get a temporary shipping address, buy gold with Bitcoin and sell it, then come back with the foreign fiat to convert it. How do taxes work for this scenario?

Same as in the US; different rates apply

Why don't you cash out with literal cash?

That's what I do and I doubt the guy who I trade BTC with for cash will ever tell anyone.

No. That's the whole point.
You put in 10k into ADA it moons to 50k and then you move your 50k stack to DGB and it tanks to 5k. You still owe 5k from your ADA gains. Gains you don't have.

If you want to be ultra safe after a big windfall, trade the 30 percent to ETH to Coinbase and sell the ETH for fiat.

No it was never allowed for crypto. Retard.

So my exchange, Coinone, which allows on-boarding in fiat (Korean currency) has deleted all my trades and withdrawals/deposits, and I'm a US citizen.

What the hell can I do? I don't even have any idea how much I started with.

Just read the fucking book brainlets

Belarus just declared Crypto legal and tax-free for 5 years. If you are a burger you could go there and live for 1 year, so the IRS doesn't fuck you in the ass, and then cash out.

In the UK you get £11000 allowance on capital tax gain per tax year.

PS If you are not a registered trader with HMRC

If you are going beyond that then get in contact with accountants.

but your capital gains will be offset by your losses when you eventually cash out..working out to be the same. No? I'm not good at maths but that's my understanding

you'll run into tax problems when you try to cross borders with more than like 10k cash

LIKE KIND was never allowed for crypto. Never. Never. I'm a fucking cpa.

If you're audited for 2017 you will be ass raped.

My government requires me to document every single trade on top of every single address I've used. I haven't reported anything all these years (I started in 2013) and now I need to go through a process where I basically admit that I screwed up and pay what I need to pay. The issue is that I haven't kept track of what I need to, so I'm screwed. I have a 7-digit figure in crypto and I'm looking to take out a large portion so I can buy my own apartment and whatnot.

I'm thinking I'll just give them a reasonable estimation of what I should pay and whatnot, and if they ask me for documentation just tell them I screwed up and leave the rest to lady luck. Prison here is nice, so I honestly wouldn't even mind spending a while there either.

Source on Panama and Costa Rica?

Congress write the laws, not the IRS. The IRS was only issuing "guidance" to good little cucks who were way overpaying to feel safe. Since the law was not specifically made retroactive, any reasonable judge would look at the bill and say "well this law only takes effect january 1st and since it is not specifically retroactive, anything before that doesn't matter"

In USA, unless you made really, really bad investments, you won't be taxed more than you earned. Generally speaking, you will end up being taxed normally according to how much profit you earned this year. Please actually research how tax works. You deduct your trade fees and trade losses through wash sale rule from your earned income, etc.

All of you in denial and risking federal prison over 15% taxes deserve to be ass raped by Jamal.

The 2017 tax calculator on bitcoin.com taxes every trade for a reason.

first things first, where do you live?

Norway.

It's only income or can be tracked by the IRS until it's converted to FIAT and exchnaged through coinbase into a bank account. How do they audit you on money you don't have?

Did you fill out the 2 page like kind form for every single trade you made this year?

Oh nice - I had kinda gone along thinking we had just the tax floor on income tax, but if it's also on capital gains too, then I'm very much safe

What about ?
US Citizen trading exclusively in foreign currencies via a proxxy (somebody else's name) account on an exchange that deleted all my records. This is really how I do it, so what should I even try to do?

The problem is that the IRS sees my US bank account getting $50,000 wire transfers from some obscure foreign bank account every month or so. Also I've cashed out into Gdax before going back into trading before.
What can I do about that?

They ask to see the transactions. And if you can't provide the transactions, they tax you assuming the cost basis was $0. So they don't care. They win either way

WHAT ABOUT MOTHER RUSSIA GUYS?

So tell me Mr. Wizard, if it was "thaaa lawwww" (Judge Dredd Voice) why did Congress need to bother to write it in to the tax bill?

You pay tax on cost vs sell.

Litterlly impossible to get taxed more then you made with simple cap gains

You might have to sell tho.

20 trades does not equal 20x taxes. Some people man...

I see, thanks. If I ever make it, I'll just dump most of my portfolio into ETH and let it sit for a year and just pay the taxes. It'll be more money than I ever thought I could ever have anyways.

Again, it's not that simple when exchanges literally delete your trading records.

I entered through CB, then traded on BTC-e, now that is gone, I don't have records to draw from..but they FBI..so I will just refer the IRS tot eh FBI and let those 2 deal with each other if they want my details when the time comes. I am hoping we get some crypto lobbiests and we can get some amendments passed to ease this shit for crytpo investors. If the market is big enough, it will have influence.

Are you open to relocating? How much is 7 figures? How much of your portfolio is in top 15 coins and therefore easy to liquidate to cover admin expenses?

Just to clarify it. LIKE KIND wouldn't hold up in court for crypto. I'm sure some people will be trying it once they're audited for 2017.

IRS pls go
taxation is theft
you're never ever ever getting one single fucking satoshi from me

Hopefully the IRS will tax cryptocurrency so high, it's worthless. Mining using way too much electricity which is bad for our environment.

Well then you're the dumbass for not having your own records. Tough shit. Cost basis on those trades is now $0 under audit.

hes right though, planning and strategizing for tax implications is important

Read this

cryptotax.uk/guide/

Make sure to back up all of your trades

What exchange do you guys recommend that doesn't want to verfiy you by person? Non american here btw

>You pay tax on cost vs sell.
literally false. you get taxed on every single trade

Wrong, you pay taxes on all your gains for the year. You can make 100k in gains and it’s all sitting in binance or in your wallets, you will owe the govt tax money. You moving anything to your bank account is now irrelevant. It sucks but that’s the law.

Thanks, have been doing just that

But how do they know you ven own crypto or how much you have? This isn't a US bank account where they can threaten your bank to release your transaction history and bank statements. What if your money is in a crypto wallet converted to a privacy coin like monero that they could never track. There no one to give them information, there's no one they can point their guns at. They have lost their power.

Does anyone really give a shit about $0 cost basis though?

I mean if you started with $1k in Bitcoin and traded your way up to a million dollars, are you going to bitch you can't write that $1k off as your initial investment on your taxes?

Although I'll add that I'm a dual citizenship so might take a look at what my other country offers

anons are stupid if,youre american none of these tax havens work unless you denounce your citizenship you will owe ustaxes onlu yhe first 100k is non taxable overseas

I mean, I could probably live like a king in some other place, but I do quite like Norway and would like to stay here. I'd like to know what options there are though.

As for how much it is, see pic related. The majority is in XRB, so it's not realistic to be able to get all that out at the current price, but luckily I only invested what was at the time worth $65k into XRB and I have yet to sell a single one of those coins, so those gains have yet to be realized.

Taxation is rape. Keep you're big government dick out of my asshole

>cashing out in Venezuela
kek

cant wait for them sieze half your money..again you need renounce your citizenship or else you still pay us taxes no matter where you live. failure to report foreign bank accounts result in 100k fine or half of the accont which ever is greater

fortune.com/2017/03/06/renounce-us-citizenship-irs/

Can i gt a fucking (YOU)

Try to reconstruct the trades through your bank account transaction records. Be ready to show how you calculated your cost bases, earnings, etc. if you get audited. You'll be fine as long as it's reasonable and you tried your best to be accurate.

I'm not American.

JUST

Ok..does it matter that all the trades are in somebody else's name? Meaning the exchange account is somebody else's and hooks up to somebody else's bank account and they just wire to me?

blame obama, "To some degree it is President Obama’s fault. It was Obama and the Democratic Congress that passed a law in 2010 that forced foreign banks to disclose U.S. citizens,” says Mitchel."

please us anons get an overseas bank anf not tell the irs cant wait cor the audit posts come april

I know what the fucking law says, and what the IRS wants good goys to do. The IRS has no way of knowing how much crypto you actually own. They only know what you have if you tell them. Paying high tax rates on smaller chunk of your crypto that you need to convert to USD to make transactions, even if that amount is taxed at the higher income rate, is preferable to paying 15% to ever trade and transaction on everything you own. 30% of 20k is less money than 15% of 1 mil

then youre good user

How much $ did you start trading with? In the next 3 years you will be able to make even more since the crypto market is just starting to get big.

PS: Don't pay the tax, leave Norway for a couple years and cash out in Panama or Belize or something.