Under what circumstances are DMPCs acceptable?

Never, if a DMPC is "acceptable" they're indistinguishable from an NPC.
Which makes the point moot.

ive had to bullshit the dmpc to stay alive when the dm wanted him dead because i needed the druid to be my mount

>i needed the druid to be my mount

You couldn't be any more right. As a DM I think DMPC's are disgusting. I have a shit load of NPCs which are included in the world and one right now even with the party but I'd never call them my own character. That's a right reserved for the players.

When they're an obstacle that the party carries around with them, and you get XP (or something similar) for maneuvering around them.

"OK, Steve, you're the navigator. Deb's Scout is obviously the pilot. Doc's the medic, duh.
Won't need a steward--we're not officially carrying passengers. We can pull gunners and boat pilots from the Marine squad. That just leaves...engineer."

Everybody looks at the sheets & shakes their heads.

"OK. Deb, that Navy dude from the bar last night? Looks like he 'forgot' to go home. Have the admin guy cut some fake TDY orders for him: we lift as soon as he sobers up."

If your group rotates gms while playing in the same campaign world it's usually okay to have your character hang around and participate.

Otherwise, having your own PC in a game you're running is fucking terrible. Don't do it.

If it's a character that the party views as important and cares about--of their own accord, not because you pushed the character on them--it can be worth giving them class levels and having them travel with the party. If the players continue to engage with and value the NPC, and effectively adopt them into the party--again, of their own volition--you've more or less arrived at a DMPC.

never, fuck off with these shit bait threads

Oh you of little imagination

Literally Never.

A GM can insert any number or measure of NPCs into the game he wants. Why would any self respecting GM want to put a "PC" in there when he has the whole rest of the fucking world to play with?

Anytime that players are complete retards and need help.

They aren't.

When you need a redshirt to die for the plot

My PC is the main villain.

Literally never.

The DM's job is to both build the game like a video game dev would, write the story, and run the world like a computer runs the comptuer game.

By playing the game you are running the game, you don't get to have a character.

You can have NPC's that tag along with the party, but they should have a damn good reason and fit into the current story arc. They should also play either a supporting role or not be more powerful than the same class that a player is playing as to not overshadow them, if they are staying for a long period of time.

Friendly tag along Characters can be more powerful but it has to add to the player experience. If they one time get bailed out of a mistake THEY MADE (not a DM ambush) by Ser Solaire the powerful paladin, and he tags along for one session its a cool break from the norm. Otherwise he starts to overshadow the PC's.

We quite literally had this thread less than a week ago. You obviously got your answers then, so bugger off.

In my game, 'DMPC' is code for 'The one NPC they are allowed to take with them on each excursion if they want, for the banter, to develop them more, or to use as a shield when shit gets weird'

And then I do absolutely horrible things to the NPC because they go to dangerous places so the PCs freak out to save them and then mock them after when they get home for beer and pork, and it's all fun

In my list of DMPCs are
>A pure healer cleric
>a cowardly mastermind rogue
>a full plate paladin that has taken a vow against harming another living being for redemption
>a crew of bards that buff the party and look super cool doing it

Not all at once, mind you. They are all filler characters for when nobody in the party wants to "fill that role"

Your job is to entertain the PCs and develop the world a touch more by writing a small story featuring all of them stuck together as a B-Team while the PCs are away.

DMPC, by definition, is unacceptable kind of NPC.

Pizza on a bagel it's genius!

ttrpgs aren't video games go back to 4e lol

I mean if it's part of the plot hook or something but it's not something everyone can do, like said they are just npc's so as long as you can remember that then you guchi

When there's an encounter the party can't defeat I always feel it's fair to have a powerful GMPC help. The party tend to always be grateful they're not dead and they get to see a cool fight.

This thread keeps coming back.
>NPC=good.
>DMPC=bad.
Thus,
>DMPC that has any reason to be addressed as DMPC instead of NPC = bad.

>introduce demigod son of god of war who literally counts as a one-man party
>players look at me like i've gone crazy
>he's literally doing EVERYTHING and the party just hangs back as he one-shots everything on the temple grounds
>they enter the catacombs underneath the temple
>door slams shut
>total darkness
>they hear a horrible scream
>a sudden flash of light as the divine shining ichor blood of the demigod splatters the walls and players
>something in the dark just tore a "lvl 40" demigod to shreds

We horror campaign now bruv.

At what point do the players get to stop watching the cut scene and do something?

My group kicked out our old DM because she was truly awful in so many ways, but one of them was the two DMPCs she had.

They were the family of my character. My character had formerly been an enforcer for a criminal underworld, and had had a relationship with a woman who was a drug mule, who went on to retire and be a barmaid and have his kid.

We took both of them with us to the Underdark because it was convenient, and they got separated from the party. 2 year old child ended up being a sorcerer who could accidentally cast 9th level spells, and she somehow ended up two levels higher than anyone in the party after 3 days of being by herself in the Underdark.

It's a demigod of war. He's a fucking asshole, so all he does is fight monsters and talk shit.

To keep the players engaged, they get fed all kinds of traps, puzzles and cryptic messages that convey the message of "GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE YOU ABSOLUTE MADMAN THERE IS ONLY ETERNAL TORTURE DOWN HERE FUCKING LEAVE DUDE WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!".

The fuck is wrong with you, you fucking autist?

>durr deres no combat 4 me so it's a cutscene

>she
You should have seen this coming.

I'm just keeping him as a "badass" friendly healer, he's just the plot hook when I sacrifice him, they are starting to like him, so he's gonna die soon

Tbh, ur gay lil writing is pretty irrelevant, most players are there to slay cool monsters and get fat loot.

It was our first game, we came together for a Meetup group.

She was awful from the start, but we only finally got round to kicking her out after about 6 months (different people arriving at different times).

If you ever read the Oil Baron stories in the /5eg/,
dat me.

>Tbh, ur gay lil writing is pretty irrelevant, most players are there to slay cool monsters and get fat loot.
Excuse me, what did you write? I can't read memespeak.

>what did you write?
The truth.

>Under what circumstances are DMPCs acceptable?

Your party a hired to protect and guard someone of importance.

You have no concept of storytelling and you are ruining your players' fun with your mary sues. And you baited me. Good job.

I don't see any truth. Just dumdum Reddit memewords.

Well, user, you're an idiot, so your opinion isn't of much value.

>fun
>fun can only be found in combat

Just admit you're mad about horror being in a roleplaying game, you autistic rollplayer. Fuck off back to your Pathfinder containment thread.

>more reddit memewords

Who let the numale out of xir's cage?

>Make a DMPC to fill a needed role
>Helps keep the party alive far more than some of the players want to admit, and only 1 guy has an actual problem with it.
>Suddenly after a dragon fight, the guy who hates my DMPC (a super min maxed fighter) kills him, "so he doesn't have to share loot with him."
>Keeps looking expectedly at me, as if I will have something happen.
>Nop, DMPC dies
>other players go quiet
>they gather all the loot in bags of holdings, and clear the room, only leaving the naked body of my DMPC (he explicitly wanted to leave him naked for some reason)
>He acts super paranoid, sure something will happen. Keeps telling the other characters that they shouldn't feel safe, and that something is very likely to happen
>Nothing happens
>they get out
>set up camp for the night
>All the other players ditch the killer during the night.
>Ranger covers up their track
>He never finds the party again.
>He was forced to roll a new character, the other characters are rightfully afraid of him backstabbing them out of the blue
>He still blames me for being angry about losing my DMPC
Especially funny since I actually just went easy on them. My character was the only source of healing, and they were battered and low on resources, so a fight could very quickly go bad.

He also appeared to have missed the favt that I am the DM. I have hundreds of characters. Randomly murdering one is only going to make him look like a psychopath to the other PCs. I didn't even need to say anything, they just unanimously decided that they weren't going to stick around with him for even a second more than they had to.

I honestly wouldnt be surprised if he was one of you faggots. He seems like a person that would fit right in here on Veeky Forums. The best part is how fucking retarded he is, makes it difficult to throw him out. He has this cute charm about his antics, that makes him funny in the "retarded puppy" kind of way.

Chill out, cuckmaster.

I have some DMPC's technically. Though they exist due to the fact that without them the players would die. Setting is not-Venice, using GURPS. The players decided to join a crew of thugs-for-hire down at the docks. Their jobs included stuff like swimming underneath boats to drill holes in them, or sneaking into a small military fort to steal some stuff then exiting via an underground river. The leader of the Dock gang, who is with them most jobs, is very strong and very good at swimming. None of the party can swim, so Ramiro , the DMPC has saved their life at least 4 times now, when they have fallen into the water etc. They all have spent character points on swimming now.

As a useless and immensely stupid escort quest type of cunt

You know, some people really enjoy the whole non-combat dungeon exploration aspect.

>to fill a role

This is such a bad excuse. Either tailor your game to your players, tell me what their party composition should probably be, or kill them for their ineptitude. Stop with this fucking patronising behaviour, which is a coverup for you not being able to play/wanting to develop the story one exact way. Write a book and stop DMing if you're that shit at improvisation.

Obviously the dude's players didn't since it shocked them that he introduced a character like that. Furthermore, why create a godmode character to kill everything if your players desire exploration? Just give that to them, no need for Mr Coldsteel to show them how weak they are. Also, contrary to your belief, a very powerful character killed in an edgy manner doesn't make horror. A thing that's horrifying has to be only markedly more powerful, so much as to threaten your own life or similar, if you're gonna get a game out of it. Sure, a powerful deity that kills a level 40 demigod is scary as fuck. But it also gives the feeling of "why bother against such forces?" There's a reason you can't translate Lovecraft well into RPGs. Players want agency, not you playing against yourself as you flesh out your retarded and poorly thought-out story.

When you don't have enough PCs or the PCs form a very weak party and have a glaring need you can fill. If, however, they lack a competent face man and you don't like talking to yourself then you might be forced to just end the group.

>Obviously the dude's players didn't since it shocked them that he introduced a character like that.
How did you get "the players don't enjoy non-combat dungeon exploration from them being shocked at the introduction of a deliberately-bad DMPC?
> Furthermore, why create a godmode character to kill everything if your players desire exploration? Just give that to them, no need for Mr Coldsteel to show them how weak they are.
To set a certain mood, of course. If the DMPC hadn't been there, the players would just have said "Fuck this temple, let's just fucking leave because this is a deathtrap. The DMPC doesn't function so much as a setup for a horror "cutscene", the DMPC's sole function is to act as a trap. He draws the players in a bad situation, and is promptly killed off after he served his purpose.
>Also, contrary to your belief, a very powerful character killed in an edgy manner doesn't make horror. A thing that's horrifying has to be only markedly more powerful, so much as to threaten your own life or similar, if you're gonna get a game out of it. Sure, a powerful deity that kills a level 40 demigod is scary as fuck. But it also gives the feeling of "why bother against such forces?" There's a reason you can't translate Lovecraft well into RPGs. Players want agency, not you playing against yourself as you flesh out your retarded and poorly thought-out story.
Why do you think that being stuck in a dungeon with some unkillable horror removes your agency? It's it obvious that the players can still set their own goals like "Let's try to get out ASAP!" "Let's try to find out more information!" "Let's try to grab some loot now we are here!".
Not every decision of the player borks down to "LETS KILL EVERYTHING!".

When the players need a guide for narrative purposes. Once the players have the swing of things, you ditch them at the soonest opportunity.

Our group is small, so the party always needs support rolls filled if they're playing normal or low-powered characters. This can be healing, buffs, debuffs, flanking, distractions, meat shields, loremasters, adding some flavor to the group or even just some chump to pop a cork and shove a potion into your mouth.

Don't make them more powerful or even equal in power to the roles PCs have covered. Never saddle the party with them, show their skill and let the players decide to bring them along. And most importantly, always have the goal of eventually putting control of them into the hands of whoever develops the closest bond with them.

Following these rules, I've had my players turn some of these henchmen into the focal point of a couple sandbox games. Straying from these rules has led to the NPCs getting punted out of the group as fast as possible.

>This is such a bad excuse.
It was requested by the players, you faglord.

Or are you the player from ?

Did you get buttfucked by fellow players, who didn't think it was funny that you went full randumb, and backstabbed "le evil DMPC" ?

Literally nothing wrong with a subtle DMPC filling a role the players do not want to fill themselves. In fact, THAT is being a terrible DM.
>Hurr kill them for their ineptitude
Jesus Christ, get that autism under control before you hurt yourself. This is a role-playing game where people make characters they want to play, you don't punish them for doing that because "muh party composition".

And that is a bullshit response. I told my players the setting, and then gave them the different options to take. They could have gone with the highwaymen, or the burglars, but they wanted to be a wrecking crew. What was I supposed to have done, said to the party, oh this dockers gang you have joined, none of them have work near water? Only 2 of the jobs needed swimming, and once it was because of a crit-fail in combat. Also, its gurps idiot, the players can tailor their characters over time, hence the fact that despite the last job they did being the swimming underwater one I mentioned, all of the were fine.

It wasn't to "fill a role", cause in Gurps, with the level we were working on you can't have a party of three that can fill all the roles. All of the characters they could have interacted with were loosely created before the game, so obviously, when the docker saw his new guys drowning , he dived in and tied a rope to them, so they could be pulled out.

This idea that a GM should present to his players a world and then alter it to ensure they never are at risk from them making a potentially poor choice is dumb. They knew it was highly lethal in terms of style, they knew I would punish mistakes. The time one fell into the water in chain?. He had to be pulled out before he drowned, cause he was wearing around 35lbs of metal. If your players are never at risk from their own decisions, the game is bad, plain and simple.

Almost everyone in our group has GMed at least three sessions in our long running fantasy campaign. Even then, the person running the game usually doesn't even mention his character (he's somewhere else) or just makes him questgiver. But then, there was one time when GMPC was used, to much joy of the party.

It was during a final battle of my character's story arc. The villain had just swept us aside and was about to kill a girl to finish a sacrifice. Just before his blade struck, he got a boot to his face.

The current GM's PC (on his own pretty chill guy) was indebted to my character and I sent him a message right at the start of the game to come and help me. Seeing how I wasn't as much as fighter as I was a schemer and mastermind, it was most fitting that his arrival, planned by me, was my ace in the hole.
It was even better because one of our party members was dying and GMPC was a paladin.

keikaku dori

I'd certainly be horrified to find out my GM was that retarded.

sweet, but the character sounds more like a tolerable NPC, not a DMPC

I'm doing this too. The cleric has taken on a young girl they've saved from a slaver's network as an apprentice healer. I do her character (I want to be the little girl[/spoiler[) and he commands her token in battles. They've cut down their murder hobo-ing because they don't want to be a bad influence and I'm thinking once she basically becomes the party mascot then I kill her.

I want to get buffed by Cestree.

never, make an NPC

Is it okay to have a DMPC/liaison for the players and the ship crew they've accumulated? The players are so indifferent about the crew they've even forgot they had a crew; they almost forgot to bring their crew along when they were going from an island to the mainland.