/wmg/ Warmachine/Hordes General

Nah Cygnars just spoiled as ever. Gravediggers is good.

Of course, Haley 2 will keep being taken forever, but thats Haley 2.

This is how you know is pretty entitled. They're getting this awesome theme with strong models and players are s just like 'Nah, I'll just play Haley2 for the millionth time'.

Honestly, that view isn't terribly off-base. Gravediggers is fine as a theme, but it's never going to be more than a secondary pairing for Cygnar since it amplifies Cygnar's biggest weakness -- a general lack of armor cracking.

It's great if you see mostly balanced and combined arms stuff at your local shop, but if you run into a significant amount of ARM skew (which shows up a lot at big tournaments and highly competitive metas), it's not an all-rounder. Siege2 and Stryker3 can get some mileage out of it on the strength of Fury, sure, but otherwise, there's not enough hitting power there to justify taking it over Heavy Metal or Storm Division (or even out of theme).

All-in-all, I think it's a great release because it gives the Cygnar players who want more trench warfare stuff solid ways to play but isn't going to be warping the meta.

But to a competitive player, it's pretty meh. But, of course, Cygnar doesn't really need anything more competitive than it already has.

What's stopping them of using Trenchers and using Jacks as Crackers?

Khador gets lots of Mileage out of Winter Guard Lists even with a Jack Focus.

They don't have lmaorockets

Not Winterguard Spam, just balanced stuff. And I still have had success even without rockets. Rockets are nice but they are Pow 15-ish. Which is excellent ranged work, but it's not damage defining. Warjacks still do allot of heavy lifting.

Cygnar jacks don't hit terribly hard, and once you stack enough to work, you might as well be running Heavy Metal.

>They were forced to re-edit the book after the pretty big Skorne Errata.
That's just a bad excuse.

well, to be fair, they are a bad company.

I thought Iron Clads and Thunderhead?

Thunderhead's pretty pillow fisted for a 20point jack. POW17 fists and a POW14 gun with reload2

So their Colossals are about the only thing that hits hard in the army in melee?

Remember when PP was the good company fighting against the evil ways of GW?

ironclad, stormclad, hammersmith (due to volume of attacks, and cheap price) all hit hard. Stormblades are the closest Cygnar's got to a weaponmaster unit, and they hit hard. Stormlances hit pretty hard in melee on the charge. We've got options, but most of Cygnar's in-Faction stuff is teched hard into clearing out light infantry.

something something live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

wew painting my first mini and it is looking like trash. Maybe this hobby isn't for me.

Not a villain really, just incompetent.

Don't get me wrong, PP will hang around due to the veterans already too heavily invested in the game to jump ship. And they'll milk them for awhile but PP has definitely peaked.

thin ye paints? It honestly makes a huge difference. Also it's not like anyone who actually still plays this trash heap game paints their models beyond sprayblack.

If warmachines, spraypaint black, drybrush iron metallics everywhere, base coat faction color using multiple thin layers where necessary, wash, call it done. If warbeasts, mostly base coats and wash on the flesh/fur, drybrush on weapons, call it a day. They'll look half shit, but it's pretty hard to fuck up these small steps. You can make it better later when you get sick of how they look.

At least you actually have paint on your models, which means you're trying harder than 80% of the people I've seen playing the game.

I owned models for like 5+ years without even spray primer on them. The game attracts people who enjoy the game but not the modeling hobby pretty often. I wouldn't be too embarrassed if I were you.

Can anyone help me with my Convergence of Cyriss list? Running Destruction Initiative.

Iron Mother Directrix
Corollary
Prime Axiom
x2 Transfinite Emergence Projector
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex
Optifex Directive
x3 Accretion Servitors
x2 Attunement Servitors
x2 Elimination Servitors
x2 Reflex Servitors

What to change? Other units/models I have include Reductors, Reciprocators, Mitigator, Galvanizer, and a Cipher/Monitor/Inverter kit I am magnetizing at the suggestion of an user in a previous thread.

I'd like if I didn't have to start completely from scratch. I'll buy more CoC stuff eventually but for the time being I'd like any changes to the list to build off of what I have.

Playing with plain gray models does not seem very fun

Start hanging out in the /wip/ threads, user. It's mostly 40k stuff in there but occasionally Warmahordes and Malifaux find their way in occasionally. Lots of good tips, infographs, etc. Everyone is shit when they start. Just keep at it.

>Expects painted models

You picked the wrong hobby mate. Warmachine players don't give two shits about having their armies painted, even most streams are just globs of pewter and plastic against each other.

Warmachine is basically a board game, you best move on if this bothers you.

>Warmachine players don't give two shits about having their armies painted

Speak for yourself, mate.

I purposely position my troops in a way so that the ones that are painted worse are more likely to die.

As it should be. A model's performance on the battlefield is directly proportional to their paint job.

If you're not even going to put the effort into making them look nice why not just use paper cutouts or something instead of overpriced pewter blobs?

>Speak for yourself, mate.

I speak for a majority of Warmachine players, as evidenced by any convention you travel to.

Just the way this hobby is. And you joke but I've seen people play with bases with names on it. Warmachine is not a modeling game, it's a strategy game. The models really don't matter, go back to GW with that attitude and your participation medals.

This is what I've done so far. I'm all over the fucking place. I thought the white was kinda hard to see going on so i started doing the red parts instead so maybe the white would stand out more. I'm pretty sure this has no chance of looking even halfway decent. I've never been good at art and I'm especially bad at not getting paint in areas that it's not supposed to be in.

You've got a good start. Don't worry about it being messy at this stage. You can always go back and clean it up later. White/Red are some of the most difficult colors to start off with too so don't despair.

If you've got grey/silver go ahead and paint up all the metallic areas first. Just work on getting everything basecoated. Even after a few years painting my models still look pretty messy putting the paint on. I just go back and clean up the areas one at a time. Privateer Press has some great painting stuff up on their youtube these days. I know for a fact they do a menoth jack for their getting started video too.

youtube.com/watch?v=lk5IHu7E-MM

Go slow and steady your hands. Brace your forearms against the edge of the table or something so your hands don't shake as much. Also, for someone just starting, I wouldn't really suggest priming white. It's not very forgiving since it really pops on any missed spots. Black or grey is easier to deal with.

White is always a pain in the ass, I switched my color scheme from purple/white to purple/gold because of it. My main advice would just be put on your base coats and from there figure out if you want to keep it or not. It is weird since I have Crusaders with different color schemes though.

Like I said I am about as unartistic as a person can get so I really just wanted to go with the original color scheme since I can just copy it.

Question how best to use Goreshade4, his feat seems like a trap or that you would want to run a griffon swarm because they would be able to survive for the feat. Other than that only Hydras come to mind when building a list for him.

Oh and any one have any idea if House Ellowuyr swords man are worth the buy, Defensive strike on a reach unit seems good but...

Hydras aren't worth it to be honest. Best results for me so far consisted of either a Colossal + Arc node or Banshees + Arc node.

Generally in my experience his list building tends to go:
>Strong Frost Field target
>Self-sufficient infantry
>Support
>Battlegroup

So a typical list might be something like:

conflictchamber.com/#c5201bhH4E4E1g9v3y3y3y2V313whPdK3x

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

!!! Your army contains a pre-release entry.

(Goreshade 4) Lord Ghyrrshyld, The Forgiven [+28]
- Banshee [18]
- Banshee [18]
- Chimera [8]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
- Soulless Escort (3) [3]
Spears of Scyrah [9]
- Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [6]
Stormfall Archers [9]

>You picked the wrong hobby mate. Warmachine players don't give two shits about having their armies painted
Fuck off. You don't get to speak for us.

Face it Warmachine is the COD of tabletop.

>massive popular casual game
>Warmachine and not 40k/Age of Sigmar
I don't get it

Age of Sigmar just came out whereas Warmachine has been meeting that standard for awhile.

Warmachine is neither popular nor massive
And AoS has been out for 2 years at this point, it didn't just come out

>You picked the wrong hobby mate
Oh fuck off. There is some incredible talent on the hobby side of this game and playing against painted armies is still incredibly rewarding.

Hell, the world championship requires fully painted and based models.

2 years holy shit. I've got to stop browsing tvtropes.

>Warmachine is neither popular nor massive
It's second only to Warhammer and X-Wing. Just admit you're making shit up

icv2.com/articles/markets/view/36971/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2016

Okay maybe that was a inaccurate statement
What I should have said is that it is not as popular or as massive as 40k (and Age of Sigmar to an extend)

That is accurate. GW could do litterally anything shitty to their fans and the game would still be insanely popular. I don't think it will ever not be one of the most popular games in the world

Nice I have been thinking of picking him up but didn't know what to do with him.

Mother likes her gunlines more batrlegroup centric. Don't get me wrong teps are amazing, but I would swap them for assimilators.

If you wanna run teps put them with lucant or axis. They essentially take center stage for the army when you use them and will get focused hard, so you need tech to protect them. Mother has none.

How's Skeryth Issyen these days after the nerf to his killing power? Is he worth buying at a 60% discount, or should I just save my money for the Fane Knight Guardian?

Well he's free in theme.

Depends on who you use him with. Losing rapid strike hurt his missile status and Spears of Scyrah do what he does but better for 1 more point. He is a neat model though and like said he is free in theme.

Because people won't let me play with paper cutouts, but they'll let me play with the gray models

You know I actually like this game.

I quit MKII for the many misbalances and game design that really throttled what you could do because of the Mercenary choices and combos that just really propelled some choices massively over others. But the worst part was that if something was bad, the best you could hope for was a UA to make it better (And it rarely did).

Call it blander, but when certain combinations just make taking the opposite combinations requisite I call that bad game design. And what bothered me about MKII is that it moved TOWARDS that direction not away from it.

I think MKIII is better than MKII. In basic game design and in designer intent. And I care much more about the companies visible improvement attempts than its mistakes that it made along the way of getting there.
For instance, in this CID there was a massive lack of Soles in the premises. Already better.

MKIII has a shit ton of problems, but unlike in MKII I feel like shits actually moving in the direction of getting fixed, even if I have to be patient.

You know what time of the day it is? JANK TIME!

conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0k4r6S4C5z6Ngggg6q6q6p6F6p6F6X6X

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Winds of Death

(Zaal 1) Supreme Aptimus Zaal [+26]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Rhinodon [12]
- Aptimus Marketh [0(5)]
Venator Dakar [4]
Venator Dakar [4]
Venator Catapult Crew [0(5)]
Venator Catapult Crew [0(5)]
Venator Reivers (max) [15]
- Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4]
Venator Reivers (max) [15]
- Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4]
Venator Slingers (max) [13]
Venator Slingers (max) [13]

Plan is: Shoot stuff, wait for the enemy to close in. Then Last Stand the poor Venators and have the opponent taste POW8 Weapon Masters. Thanks to AD the list is also pretty fast.

Not bad, but be sure to add some suppressive forces in order to delay the enemy further.

This doesn't actually do anything senpai. You have no pathfinder, no defensive tech, no anything.

>You have no pathfinder, no defensive tech, no anything.
Why would I need that? I have guns and I can smash whatever comes into my lines.

Okay, you brought this onto yourself:
conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0k4r5z5z5z5z6N6vgg5U6p6F6X6X

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Winds of Death

(Zaal 1) Supreme Aptimus Zaal [+26]
- Rhinodon [12]
- Rhinodon [12]
- Rhinodon [12]
- Rhinodon [12]
- Aptimus Marketh [0(5)]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Venator Dakar [0(4)]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Venator Reivers (max) [15]
- Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4]
Venator Slingers (max) [13]
Venator Slingers (max) [13]

Sorry, the proof is in any convention you travel to. Most players play unpainted. The only reason PP started demanding painting in certain areas was because no one bothers to paint their shit.

In local steamrollers and convention games, most every time you play it'll be against unpainted armies. This game is not about painting, it's about competition.

Fuck off with your painting requirements.

>The only reason PP started demanding painting
WTC is not a PP event.

>most every time you play it'll be against unpainted armies
Again, speak for yourself. Around here it's easily 30-40% fully painted and another 30-40% partially painted.

>Again, speak for yourself. Around here it's easily 30-40% fully painted and another 30-40% partially painted.

lol, so you're saying even in your meta only 30% of people have a painted army?

I rest my case. Conventions are probably more like 20% painted, maybe 30. Most Warmachine players don't give a shit about what their models or terrain look like.

>lol, so you're saying even in your meta only 30% of people have a painted army?
No I am saying what I just said. Do I need to explain it in more detail to you? Rougly a third play fully painted. Roughly another third play mostly painted. Another third play unpainted.

>Rougly a third play fully painted. Roughly another third play mostly painted.

But that's not what you said user. Partially painted can mean one heavy and a warlock, which is typical "partially painted".

And again, I travel to cons. Most shit is not painted, no one cares about painting in this hobby. Or at least 90% of players that travel don't care. Even the painted armies you see, that are painted nice, are usually commission painted.

It's not a hobby for painting. It's a board game essentially.

Im not sure what the problem is with some people not liking to paint stuff.

Some people play the game to immerse themselves in a fantasy world. That immersion is ruined when your opponent is comprised of grey/metallic blobs.

Also it just looks nicer when both armies are painted.

Arguably the hobby aspect of the hobby is just important if not more so than the game which revolves around it.

If that was true the models wouldn't suck so hard.

>But that's not what you said user.
It's just not what you wanted to understand.

>trolls placed top 4 throughout the whole year in less tournaments than either skorne just pre-errata or cryx just pre-errata
>troll cid won't touch on non-northkin models
I don't get it. Factions that fare better get buffed but trolls don't?

>troll cid won't touch on non-northkin models
Don't be to sure of that.
Kraye got in the last CID and he doesn't have anything to do with Trenchers.

What are people's opinions on Thyra and Kreoss3?

CiD insiders mentioned that PP is really tight on not touching non-northkin.

What CiD insiders?
Also if they're going to be making the Ice Troll (a.k.a. the Impaler except with Ice) then they should be giving the Impaler a look at just like they did long gunners.

>Kraye not related to Trenchers
The tenuous link they used there was Kraye is in the Cygnaran Recon Service, as are Rangers, which are in the CID.

But they didn't look at Long Gunners. They're still shit. Actually they're even more shit now because they released a version of theme that's just flat better in every way and compensated for making the "Regular Long Gunners" (who aren't in any theme, so no one would ever play them anyway) 2 points cheaper.

So did the Hunter and Minuteman, and Laddy and Stormlances. CID is completely all over the place, and any semblance of order that PP tries to put forward is clearly either a lie or a joke, depending on how charitable you feel towards them after how shit they've become.

>So did the Hunter and Minuteman, and Laddy and Stormlances. CID is completely all over the place
Would you rather not have them balanced?

Isn't the Minuteman supposed to be a trench clearer?

I put the most effort into my WMH minis desu... I'm still shit at it, but fuck playing with grey blobs. That meme is just a side effect of the game's community being built from many migrated 40kids who were used to having heaps of unpainted minis on the table.

The biggest immediate concern is tournament finishes per faction. People would be much happier with Minions, Skorne, and Trolls if it was possible to actually do well with them in any capacity. After that start looking at weak models in whatever factions have weak models.

What you DON'T do is release a new faction and buff the best faction ib the game through new releases and reworks while other factions ail.

>best faction in the game
>cygnar
my man, do you even look at tourney results? Sure Cygnar's up there, but it's no Cryx, Khador or Circle.

Is there any word from PP on when the CID-changes will be made official? Is it one per month, starting with Grymkin next month, followed by SR and Battle Engines - or will they change or adapt the schedule if necessary?

Battle Engines are pretty much final (apparently), trenchers are official on release of NQ prime in september. No idea for grimkunts. From their podcast I recall them saying that the new NQ will have finalised CID rules in them and make changes official, so expect it to be every two months?

>best faction

See >buff

It's new stuff for what's probably the most popular faction, but I don't think Gravediggers is especially competitive at the top level, and it's being pushed out at the same time as a nerf to the strongest stuff in-faction.

Cygnar's power level is going down (even if only slightly) as a result of the recent changes.

I don't think you understand how production and release cycles work. The stuff coming out now has been cooking for awhile now. Other factions will get tweaks when it's their turn.

You'll have to be patient. Deal with it.

>So did the Hunter and Minuteman, and Laddy and Stormlances
This is a good thing. Would you rather have lances just dominating the infantry game and muscling out any other choice in Cygnar?

other Cygnar stuff is actually shit for the most part. Nerfing Stormlances won't make Long Gunners or Precursor Knights or StormGuard see more play, it'll just drive more people into playing only 'jacks in Heavy Metal. Heck, most of Cygnar's competitive scene plays only Heavy Metal even now, due to Blessed and SpellPiercer effects becoming more common in the meta and new releases.

The point of looking at lances was to make trenchers more viable since, you know, we're in the Trencher CID. The other stuff your complaining about will get looked at in time. They can't do litterally every model people have a problem with at the same time.

Isn't Khador currently getting assed by cryx, because they have no way of dealing with ghosts in any of their themes?

Not necessarily ghosts, but the fleet as a whole.